If Disclosure happened, what would happen to the movement?

[Schuyler]

The leaves have turned. It's getting chilly. And the Disclosure Movement is in high swing. Obama is all about hope & change, and THIS TIME, it's going to work.

OK, let's pretend. What if Disclosure happened? What would happen to the 'Disclosure Movement'? Would Obama appoint Steven Greer as ambassador to the aliens? Would Bassett become a popular cultural hero overnight?

Or would these jokers fade away into irrelevance as the governments moved to deal with the issue and appoint people better connected to the power structure to deal with the new realities? Would they be elbowed aside screaming, "I told you so" to a deaf audience? Or would the woodland moths be greeted with open arms as our new lords and masters?

It just seems to me that if you've been pounding on a door all your life, and suddenly the door opens, all you know how to do is pound. Why would these guys have any particular stature in a post-Disclosure world?

 

[Bixyboo]

Good post and questions, Schuyler.

IF 'actual Disclosure' DOES happen anytime soon, imo, there has been LOTS of set-ups in the background for a long time, (YEARS) in terms of dealing with the consequences of such an announcement) in preparation to a move like this.

THAT fascinates me MORE than the Disclosure, does.

Am I making any sense? lol.

 

[Xylo]

If disclosure were to occur and it was not quite the disclosure that Greer and his exopolitical croneys were expecting, I would expect to hear more door pounding and even louder shouting.

It is my estimation that what the governments know/have is a lot less than the Greers of the world expect it to be. Maybe they have some stuff, maybe they don't. The witness testimony is somewhat in question as to what they may actually have or not have. Maybe all the government has is a room full of paperwork and a few 16mm films.

 

[Ezechiel]

The leaves have turned. It's getting chilly. And the Disclosure Movement is in high swing. Obama is all about hope & change, and THIS TIME, it's going to work.

OK, let's pretend. What if Disclosure happened? What would happen to the 'Disclosure Movement'? Would Obama appoint Steven Greer as ambassador to the aliens? Would Bassett become a popular cultural hero overnight?

These people immediately become irrelevant. Mission accomplished.

As far as the rest of the population .... For those who can't make the jump to the new age of alien revelation, the government might create reservations restoring the pre-disclosure setup 'a la Amish'. Where news items concerning the alien reality is blocked out of the news.

The residents will be able to complete their lives in an environment where the comforting idea that the earth is the center of the universe is maintained . ROFL

Its a fundamental change... a paradigm shift with unpredictable consequences

 

[David Biedny]

I'll play along:

There is a press conference, where it is announced that there is a species of being living on this planet with us, predating human beings by millions of years. Turns out that there was a species of dinosaur that was more advanced than the fossil record reveals, and when the asteroid hit the earth and threw the planet into a freezedown, killing off most of the life on the surface, this slightly-more advanced dino went underground, utilizing geothermal energy sources to develop a technological civilization. They've had what, 50 or 60 million years to evolve. They have genetically manipulated humans since the very beginning, they helped cultivate our emotions and fears to condition and control us, without our knowledge or consent. They have been here far longer than humans, and see us as a race of violent monkeys, but creative and resourceful, and there's something about that spark of individuality that their hive-based culture finds curiously alien. Turns out that most of the other mammals on the planet have nothing like it, and the cryptos decide that it's interesting enough to toy around with, to study and emulate in a limited fashion. Turns out there was some truth to that whole reptilian thing, and that there was reality to the idea of the prototypical gray as some sort of cybernetic hybrid being.

Now, cut to a few million years down the road from now: humans have largely wiped themselves out, and the hybridization program that was reported in the 20th and 21st centuries was done in order for the cryptoterrestrials to take on the human attributes they liked, while preserving their own unique advantages. These cryptos had also opened lines of commerce with actual extraterrestrials, because it turns out that this planet is a galactic genetic bank of sorts, and there's lots of trade going on, but we're not the customer, we're the product. So there's a demand for "classic" human stock, hence, the cryptos decide to use their technology to come back in time and tap the good stuff again. And then it turns out that they didn't exactly calculate the problems with playing around with time travel, and the humans salvaged some downed craft and figured out that they weren't at the top of the evolutionary chart.

Do you think that the powers that might know this will actually let it get out? Let's say the above, purely hypothetical, were true - will disclosure happen if the truth turns out to be that humans are genetically-engineered by an older race, that everything we know to be truth is just wrong? All history, religion, one big pile of nonsense, the human place in the universal scheme, nothing more than a product, a resource for more powerful, intelligent beings?

If the above were true, and you knew it, and had to face the choice of releasing this information and letting society completely break down - which it would - or would you perpetuate a lie, create confusion, and keep yourself warm, comfy, and let someone down the line worry about the mess? What would be the human way to handle the situation?

dB

 

[conor]

If Obama did disclose whatever it is to disclose, it would be political suicide. Let's face it, if any president did, it would be political suicide. And perhaps that's all there is behind it - a conspiracy that has gotten too big and went on for too long that no sane politician will touch it with a ten foot pole, for fear of the consequences of doing so.

That's assuming that there is a big conspiracy to cover up.

 

[CapnG]

OK, let's pretend. What if Disclosure happened? What would happen to the 'Disclosure Movement'? Would Obama appoint Steven Greer as ambassador to the aliens? Would Bassett become a popular cultural hero overnight?

I think the movement would naturally end having accomplished it's goal but the figureheads would go on to become A-list celebrities with their own tv talk shows ("Meetin' with Stephen") books, lecture tours, etc etc. I mean come on, in this warped, celebu-tard culture we find ourselves in, how could they NOT cash in?

if the truth turns out to be that humans are genetically-engineered by an older race, that everything we know to be truth is just wrong? All history, religion, one big pile of nonsense, the human place in the universal scheme, nothing more than a product, a resource for more powerful, intelligent beings?

Reminds me of the plot of the manga/anime series "Guyver" in which it turns out humans are merely the end product of a series of genetic experiments by an alien race trying to breed the ultimate living weapons, only to have to abandon the project before completion. Meaning that not only are we merely product but that we never even got out of beta!

 

[conor]

Oh, and if it did happen, all the disclosure people would become sound bites for all the major networks for all of a week or so, after which they will go back to the drawing board, and then demand that the government disclose the REAL truth, an even more elaborate than that phony disclosure the government had just disclosed

 

[Schuyler]

Do you think it would be political suicide for Obama, given that he's still running for President and claims he just showed up and inherited a mess. (No argument there!) If he said something like, "Hey, I've been on top of this since I got here and I finally managed to pry it loose. Here's some 'change' for ya--in the spirit of open government and all." Would people then turn away from him or toward him? Just asking. I don't have an answer here--just playing with the idea.

 

[conor]

Do you think it would be political suicide for Obama, given that he's still running for President and claims he just showed up and inherited a mess. (No argument there!) If he said something like, "Hey, I've been on top of this since I got here and I finally managed to pry it loose. Here's some 'change' for ya--in the spirit of open government and all." Would people then turn away from him or toward him? Just asking. I don't have an answer here--just playing with the idea.

Schuyler, I would love if that would happen. But I just don't have that much faith in the political system. And not just with individual politicians, but the whole system. Also, it would completely dwarf anything else that is going on. The opposition would pounch on it like lions at a watering hole, no matter how complicit their party was in an over all conspiracy. Unfortuanately, a lot of people probably won't look past the fact that Obama is the one revealing this material, and he will forever have to deal with both the positive and negative aspects of this reaction. At a time of recession, war and global uncertainty, you couldn't pick a worse time. Could you imagine the amount of time that would be spent on it in the senate (presuming it is the grand overarching conspiracy that some people think it is)? Obama wouldn't make a second term, because of all the knock on effects from such a disclosure.

Obama got in on 'Hope' and 'Change'. As far as politicians go he seems like a decent person with integrity. But, to quote the Wire, 'the game is the game.' IMO real lasting change does not come from politics. I would go with Chomsky on this one and say that politics may react to such social and cultural changes, but it is not the instigator.

So, basically, no disclosure. What we may get is acknowledgement of future cases. That may be a safer option. It would be kind of like brushing the last 50 years completely under the carpet, and starting anew, and then when there is a new incident investigate it in public view, and then perhaps present findings later which you had really come to 30 years earlier, but this way it seems as if there was no conspiracy to begin with. Elaborate, but more safer politically.

By the way, I do not think this kind of behaviour is in any way condonable. This is me with my Machiavellian hat on

 

[Ezechiel]

Do you think it would be political suicide for Obama, given that he's still running for President and claims he just showed up and inherited a mess. (No argument there!) If he said something like, "Hey, I've been on top of this since I got here and I finally managed to pry it loose. Here's some 'change' for ya--in the spirit of open government and all." Would people then turn away from him or toward him? Just asking. I don't have an answer here--just playing with the idea.

I told ya hun !!!! The trumpets of armageddon !!! Rapture is imminent !!!

It would be the end of an era for sure. Add to that DB's reptilian scenario and you've got a lethal mix

Disclosure means acknowledging sentient civilizations that most likely predate human history. A horrifying concept for most christians... (and muslims I suppose) contradicting biblical sequence of events and possibly imposing a new one tainted with nefarious intent.

But seriously, Obama, or any government for that matter, couldn't disclose anything without first securing communication channels with alien entities. The first role of any government is providing a secure environment for its populations even if it is an illusion.

IMHO he won't disclose unless forced to do so.

 

[Trajanus]

It is my estimation that what the governments know/have is a lot less than the Greers of the world expect it to be. Maybe they have some stuff, maybe they don't. The witness testimony is somewhat in question as to what they may actually have or not have. Maybe all the government has is a room full of paperwork and a few 16mm films.

I think they have considerably more. If that's all they have, it probably wouldn't constitute the sort of incontrovertible proof that any government had better have before making such a declaration.

 

[Trajanus]

and the hybridization program that was reported in the 20th and 21st centuries was done in order for the cryptoterrestrials to take on the human attributes they liked

Considering that Homo sapiens has been around for 100,000-200,000 years, how odd that they'd wait that long.

Do you think that the powers that might know this will actually let it get out? Let's say the above, purely hypothetical, were true - will disclosure happen if the truth turns out to be that humans are genetically-engineered by an older race, that everything we know to be truth is just wrong? All history, religion, one big pile of nonsense, the human place in the universal scheme, nothing more than a product, a resource for more powerful, intelligent beings?

I don't buy the particular scenario you outlined but agree that the truth could easily undermine much of present society.

If the above were true, and you knew it, and had to face the choice of releasing this information and letting society completely break down - which it would

I don't doubt disclosure would have a big impact but maybe not this big...By now we're fast progresssing and, if we have downed craft to study and perhaps copy, maybe we'd stand a chance if galvanized by disclosure.

 

[Bixyboo]

The first role of any government is providing a secure environment for its populations even if it is an illusion.

BINGO. (imho)

 

[Ezechiel]

BINGO. (imho)

If you think about it, that pretty much seals the fate of any private 'can of worms' exo-politics initiative with a message that is inedible by at least half the population of this planet. Thus stands the mighty 'biblical' barrier.

If it was in the interest of aliens to expose themselves and start exchanging openly with the human race, this should have happened by now.

The observed behavior of these 'so-called' aliens betrays their current apparent scope of intents:

• observation
• stealthy exploitation/manipulation

In other words, disclosure is not in our hands it is in the hands of whoever the aliens are. And they obviously don't want or need it right now. What they need they can already take without retribution (unless you nuke it and damage the goods ).

Its amazing to think that 'sacred scripture' ultimately and effectively makes it possible for an alien race to operate covertly on this planet. By not being part of the 'ultimate' human history, they can't possibly exist LOL.

 

[David Biedny]

Its amazing to think that 'sacred scripture' ultimately and effectively makes it possible for an alien race to operate covertly on this planet. By not being part of the 'ultimate' human history, they can't possibly exist LOL.

Actually, if you read my scenario, it makes perfect sense - and that scenario, while totally hypothetical, is as possible as any other I've seen so far.

dB

 

[Ezechiel]

Actually, if you read my scenario, it makes perfect sense - and that scenario, while totally hypothetical, is as possible as any other I've seen so far.

dB

Like russian matryoshka dolls.
A framework within a framework.

http://www.harvardscience.harvard.e...supernovae-quickly-seeded-universe-stuff-life

Humans appeared pretty late in the game, with 5,000 years of semi-civilized existence at the 14 billion year marker... The sentient framework within a sentient framework idea is not only possible but very likely if you also recognize that security and survival is a priority for any lifeform.

Assuming there is a pre-human sentient story, it would also be fair to assume that the first civilizations that built technologies enabling travel between solar systems established such hierarchies for security (and possibly exploitation) purposes.

 

[Gareth]

I just pisses me off that for most people on the planet, the idea of pre-human advanced civilisation (or 3, or 4) of humans or something else freaks them out.

For me that is one the most exciting things I could imagine being told.

 

[conor]

What if they are an evolutionary descendent of ours from the far future who discover time travel and become a civilisation which lives in a timeless part of the universe. Now what if they discover, in doing this, they are practically gods, and it is their responsibilty to create not just us (cause if they didn't, then they would not exist) but the whole physical universe. Now, imagine that they could entertain loads of different universes and loads of different versions of their own past, all these things enhancing their own 'lives', like tweeking something in the past so that they can experience something in a different way in their own eternal present. When they do such changes, they appear to us as long term and covert, ie. appear as something we expect of the unexpected, and long enough for us not to have a clue whats going on while they are effecting such a change.

Everytime a time line is changed, they will have an experience, something which isn't just eternity. Having moved beyond the need for change, it becomes almost like a recreational artistic movement. It is art for art's sake.

Wow, this is one of the nuttiest theories I've ever come up with. Trrrriiiiiiiiiiiipppppppppppyyyyyy!

I'm not sure a government would know quite what to do with such information....... mishandle it, probably.

 

[Schuyler]

Regarding the 'Biblical Barrier,' I'm not convinced it exists, at least in not such a widespread manner as envisioned. Basically a lot of us are saying that the fundamentalists are too fundamentalist to handle it and they're all completely bat-shit crazy for believing such nonsense in the first place and they would absolutely freak out if the aliens landed.

I listened to an interview not long ago of an obviously fundamentalist theologian. He was presented with the idea of 'What of we are not alone?' He pondered a moment and said, 'Well, that just means that we'll have to enlarge our horizons and understand we have more work to do, more souls to save.'

He wasn't really phased by it. What I learned from living in the Bible Belt for a couple of years is that the issue is a little more complex than we 'enlightened ones' make it out to be. We are being very ethnocentric when we label anyone connected with a belief structure we happen to despise as idiots. They aren't all uneducated, brain-dead, hypnotized fools. They come from all walks of life and every profession. And they are well aware of the world around them. And if you get them in the right place and time and discuss fundamental issues, not many of them will push for the beginning of the earth at 9:00 am on October 23rd of 4004 BC. They may not be able to get beyond Jesus as their savior, but 4004 BC? Meh? Not such a bid deal so let's just kinda keep quiet about that one.

I can't prove it, but I have this feeling that those with a fundamental faith would likely be the least perterbed by this.