Hunt for the Skinwalker

[Siani]

Has anyone else here read Hunt for the Skinwalker, by Colm A. Kelleher and George Knapp? I received a copy this morning, and I'm just a little over one third of the way through it. I must say, after all the hype about the Skinwalker Ranch, I'm more than a little disappointed with the book - or at least, what I've read of it so far. To me, it just seems like a collection of anecdotes and hearsay evidence. After all, most of the high strangeness reported so far in the book, has not taken place in front of the NIDS team, but has merely been reported to them by the Gormans.

Maybe I'm being too harsh and jumping to premature conclusions, but the book, so far, is an interesting story, but that's it - just a story. I'm not seeing any results of scientific research to back up any of the claims made, despite the authors' frequent reiteration that the NIDS investigation was scientific in nature.

I know that paranormal phenomena, being as transient and ephemeral as they are, are often hard, if not impossible, to verify scientifically. But when I'm told, from the outset, that I'm reading about a scientific investigation, is it unreasonable of me to actually expect to see some science? Any thoughts, anyone?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

We had George Knapp as a guest on the show in October 2006.

Here's the link to the episode:

http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/media.blubrry.com/paranormal/www.theparacast.com/podcasts/paracast_061008.mp3

Actually, I find myself somewhat disappointed too, since it doesn't seem that the proper level of investigation has been done.

 

[Siani]

Thanks for the link, Gene. I heard that episode a few months ago, but I intend giving it another listen after I've finished the book.

I agree - the amount of investigation that seems to have been carried out appears somewhat lacking. That said, some people have suggested that the NIDS team has plenty of evidence, but is sitting on it, possibly at the behest of Bigelow. Whatever the truth, so far, the book has been a bit of a let-down .

 

[fitzbew88]

...the amount of investigation that seems to have been carried out appears somewhat lacking. That said, some people have suggested that the NIDS team has plenty of evidence, but is sitting on it, possibly at the behest of Bigelow. Whatever the truth, so far, the book has been a bit of a let-down .

Once you've finished the book, post again and let us know if you've changed your mind.

I'd like to talk about it, but I don't want to give away the ending!

 

[Siani]

Once you've finished the book, post again and let us know if you've changed your mind.

I'd like to talk about it, but I don't want to give away the ending!

Yep, I most definitely will . And thanks for not spoiling the ending!

 

[Aaron LeClair]

No, ten yrs out there and not one photo or video? Hardly something to sink my fangs into.

There is an interesting interview with two guys that went out there I recently listened to at Darkness radio. I strongly recommend listening to it. Just for entertainment purposes, they don't have strong evidence but it was fascinating I thought. http://www.darknessradio.com/

It might take a bit of work finding the show though

 

[Poi]

I enjoyed the book, but also think it's best to discuss when you're finished, Siani.

Now, to sift for that interview, PRat.

 

[Ron Collins]

It was my first real trip into the High Strangness stuff. The story was first documented (to my knowledge anyway) by Timothy Good in his book "Alien Contact : Top-Secret UFO Files Revealed" in June of 1994. I read Good's book after the skinwalker book and was also disappointed that not much more was learned aout the incidents. The book looked like a more expounded version of the section Good devoted to it.

I heard Knapp talk about it at the MUFON conference and still no more evidence or any sort of new information was disclosed. Basically he spent alot of time separating his journalism career from his interests in the paranormal. Oh, and defending his estimation of Lazar.

Yet it is still greatly lacking. Although, that bookand this forum have left me with a desire to look more into the high strangeness stuff.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I'm almost writing a book called, "Hunt for Researchers that wear cameras and try and get evidence".

If I was out there. Either nothing would happen, or I'd get evidence of it. I would sleep, shit, jerkoff, whatever wif a vid-cam on me. Having said that, Knapp is one of the best people in the field. Pity he still sucks. Nah, I think he had limitations put on him, so I kid a bit. Knapp needs to smack sense into Bigelow.

 

[Siani]

I've now finished the book. I'm still left with a sense that it's little more than hearsay evidence, although I appreciate that trying to capture concrete evidence of a wily and elusive phenomenon would have been very difficult. That said, for me, the book's merit lies not in the actual Skinwalker Ranch story, but in the summing-up chapters.

It was quite refreshing to come across a scientist who was prepared to go on record with his thoughts regarding multiverses, alternate realities, etc, and quite a revelation to me that there are scientists who are prepared to think outside the box. It's a shame such scientists seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Although my grasp of physics is paltry, I want to find out more about Michio Kaku - he sounds interesting. So overall, I'm still unimpressed with the Skinwalker Ranch story, but fairly impressed with the conclusions the book reached about paranormal phenomena at a wider level.

I hope this makes sense - it's late here in the UK and I'm about to fall asleep .

 

[Aaron LeClair]

What skinwalker has shown me is, if you have weird shit like that happening to you and are afraid, put a camera around your neck, and the boogie creatures will leave you alone. Not so terrifying afterall.

 

[schticknz]

I too had a bit of an ambivalent experience with this book. The 'hearsay' evidence or the stories of the things that happened to the rancher were rather mindblowing ... but ... it seems to me that the 'scientists' went back and forth to the ranch, and there never was anything set up at the place like cameras and whatever 24 hours a day.

If it was up to me, I'd put sensors of all sorts all over the bloody shop, and have a team sit there in shifts and try to get something even if its just a few blurry shorts of orbs or whatever. The way the team went about their research seemed to allow a lot of anomalous phenomena fall through their fingers like so much sand. When I'm a billionaire (don't hold your breath), I'll get a team of scientists, artists, ufologists, geophysicists, meteorologists etc, actually fund them till the money is flowing out of their noses, give them cutting edge sensor and imaging technology, and then see what they come up with.

 

[Mogwa]

There's something about Bigelow that strikes me as not being kosher. Over the years he's been subject to a great deal of criticism for withholding information gathered from the studies he's financed. He's also rumored to have strong ties to government intelligence agencies, although I don't put much credence in that sort of allegation. It's an all too common a disreputable practice to label anyone you disagree with in paranormal research a government spook.
Whatever the case, I believe Skinwalker offers some valuable information that can be correlated to other paranormal events. The possibility of a multidimensional universe is perhaps the strongest.
Another is the one reference to something very unusual being located under the property itself. When the Gorman family purchased the ranch, the sale was only closed after they agreed never to dig to any depth of more than a few feet. No major excavations were to be permitted, ever.
Why? What could possibly be down there that must never be disturbed?

 

[schticknz]

Another is the one reference to something very unusual being located under the property itself. When the Gorman family purchased the ranch, the sale was only closed after they agreed never to dig to any depth of more than a few feet. No major excavations were to be permitted, ever.
Why? What could possibly be down there that must never be disturbed?

I thought that had something to do with Native American burial grounds (a la Poltergeist ) but I could be wrong ... might have to see if I can dig the book out of the local library again ... it was a while since I read it.

 

[ArizonaWill]

I too had a bit of an ambivalent experience with this book. The 'hearsay' evidence or the stories of the things that happened to the rancher were rather mindblowing ... but ... it seems to me that the 'scientists' went back and forth to the ranch, and there never was anything set up at the place like cameras and whatever 24 hours a day.

If it was up to me, I'd put sensors of all sorts all over the bloody shop, and have a team sit there in shifts and try to get something even if its just a few blurry shorts of orbs or whatever. The way the team went about their research seemed to allow a lot of anomalous phenomena fall through their fingers like so much sand. When I'm a billionaire (don't hold your breath), I'll get a team of scientists, artists, ufologists, geophysicists, meteorologists etc, actually fund them till the money is flowing out of their noses, give them cutting edge sensor and imaging technology, and then see what they come up with.

The problem is that this phenomena seems to have an intelligence behind it, and becomes "shy" when it senses technology that could substantiate its existence. It seems to thrive on terrorizing a lonely family, but when scientists show up with all their latest high tech toys, the phenomena zips back through the portal and refuses to put on a theatrical production. So the family (who reported incredible manifestations) ends up looking foolish at best.

It reminds me of my favorite Warner Bros. cartoon. It's about this singing frog ("Everybody's Doing the Michigan Rag") but he would only sing for one person. So when that person took the frog to anyone else, e.g., like a show business agent, the frog would just sit and croak. The moment the "outsider" was gone, the frog would don his hat and cane and start singing again. Very metaphysical cartoon before it's time.....

 

[schticknz]

It reminds me of my favorite Warner Bros. cartoon. It's about this singing frog ("Everybody's Doing the Michigan Rag") ...

So in other words it really isn't "shy" as you said, the intelligence may have some of the "trickster" in it as people have suggested.

Or ... it maybe that the phenomena may only be experienced at a certain time under certain conditions. And so a serious long term study throwing everything we have in the way of sensor technology may bring up patterns of some sort.

As always grasping at straws ...

ps great cartoon by the way ... bit similar to that one of the singing owl ... I love to singa about the moona and the joona and the springa ... not so metaphysical but still cool anyway

 

[Poi]

I think we're forgetting that there was a crew at the ranch noting any significant activity. Scientists showed up when the crew let them know something was going on. Remember the trailer the bull was stuffed into? If I remember correctly (it's been a while since I read it too) that trailer belonged to the scientific staff present on the ranch. Maybe Siani can tell us for sure. I've loaned my copy of the book out. There was a constant monitoring for a good while. The phenomena just didn't play by the scientists' rules for study.

Also, the authors suggested that not only the equipment may have made the phenomena shy, the different attitude of the researchers as compared to the family to all the weirdness may have played a role in how and just what manifested. There may be something to that also.

I forget the whole name of the act (reinterment and repatriation something or other) that protects Native remains, but it's understandable that owners not be allowed to dig for fear of disturbing any buried remains. With that statement, I'm assuming remains were buried, but I don't know that to be true. The property has a known history of Ute occupation and that's enough to make owners aware of the law.

I think we have to admit, if we believe things actually go on there, that we're highly disappointed the scientific method was a bust when phenomena didn't repeat and our curiousity isn't satisfied. But the possible conclusions are what make the book valuable, especially in the absence of hard evidence and the possible why of it. Seems to me the authors left no stone unturned in that realm. The big question is centered on what to do with those conclusions in order to study phenomena in the future, but Bigelow has moved on to more concrete investments.

 

[Poi]

I think we're forgetting that there was a crew at the ranch noting any significant activity. Scientists showed up when the crew let them know something was going on. Remember the trailer the bull was stuffed into? If I remember correctly (it's been a while since I read it too) that trailer belonged to the scientific staff present on the ranch. Maybe Siani can tell us for sure. I've loaned my copy of the book out. There was a constant monitoring for a good while. The phenomena just didn't play by the scientists' rules for study.

Also, the authors suggested that not only the equipment may have made the phenomena shy, the different attitude of the researchers as compared to the family to all the weirdness may have played a role in how and just what manifested. There may be something to that also.

I forget the whole name of the act (reinterment and repatriation something or other) that protects Native remains, but it's understandable that owners not be allowed to dig for fear of disturbing any buried remains. With that statement, I'm assuming remains were buried, but I don't know that to be true. The property has a known history of Ute occupation and that's enough to make owners aware of the law.

I think we have to admit, if we believe things actually go on there, that we're highly disappointed the scientific method was a bust when phenomena didn't repeat and our curiousity isn't satisfied. But the possible conclusions are what make the book valuable, especially in the absence of hard evidence and the possible why of it. Seems to me the authors left no stone unturned in that realm. The big question is centered on what to do with those conclusions in order to study phenomena in the future, but Bigelow has moved on to more concrete investments.

 

[Mogwa]

I don't believe the no-dig agreement had anything to do with violating sacred Indian burial sites. As I recall, the NIDS team did bring in a backhoe for some excavating to see what response the action brought. Maybe they just didn't dig deeply enough.

 

[Mogwa]

I don't believe the no-dig agreement had anything to do with violating sacred Indian burial sites. As I recall, the NIDS team did bring in a backhoe for some excavating to see what response the action brought. Maybe they just didn't dig deeply enough.