Have I become a jerk?

[Ron Collins]

Over the weekend we had a few friends over. One guy noticed my office book shelf and started to engage me in conversation about it. Basically saying how he had always wanted to devote some time to look into it and maybe I could "give him an overview". To be honest I am at a point now that I do not want to rehash the last several years or spend hours talking with a neophyte on the subject. So I simply said something along the lines of:
There is a well documented phenomenon in UFO sightings. Trying to postulate origin is pointless and will only frustrate the hell out of you. There are only a few good books with good information and credible accounts. But you have to read a mountain of crap and research everything they write to discover those books and authors. There are other phenomenon that may or may not be related to UFO's and that sound patently absurd at first. If you start looking into it you will spend countless hours reading, watching, and listening to topics on the subject. You will glimpse the ridiculous personal and political disputes of prominent personalities in the field. You will most likely find a camp with which you agree and pitch a tent there for a while. In the end, you will only deepen your the mystery in your own mind and have precious few answers more than what I have just told you. My advice is to watch the shows on T.V. whenever you feel the need but if you can, get another hobby.

In the end he wrote down a few book titles, I mentioned a few podcasts and we didn't talk about it again. A year ago, I would have spent the next 2 weeks or more sending him stuff that would probably overwhelm the guy. Maybe I was just in a mood. Has anyone else just reached a point where you would pounce on the opportunity to talk for hours about the subjects with someone knowledgeable but would politely shine the rookie on? is this a phase or have I crossed some barrier?

 

[Loose Leaf Tea]

Spooky!
I had the exact thing happen to me over the weekend, Mr Ron.
My son's friend expressed an interest in UFOs so I sat forwards and smiled, but suddenly felt quite overwhelmed at the thought of giving the poor lad any sort of in-depth reply. I answered pretty much as you did and that was that! However, I didn't think of myself as a jerk, (or "arse" as we like to say over here).
Sigh.
After thirty-something years, you'd have thought I'd have found myself a less maddening interest...I must be one of those "mentally ill" people David mentioned last eposide...

 

[methshin]

I always felt that I wasn't knowing enough to refer people to literature and that they should do all the digging themselves to determine their own basis of thought regarding the issue at hand. Some people may consider it a "dickish" thing, but really, if you're really interested, you're going to go do it no matter what I say.

 

[paranormal_dada]

Great thread, Ron.

After a 4 or 5 year absence, I began scanning the internet for information related to sightings and encounters. It wasn't until late 2006, early 2007, that I began listening to various podcasts including the Paracast and by then I had started reading Richard Dolan's UFOs and the National Security State. So it was the fall of 2007 and I think I pretty much woke up! I remember becoming overcome by so much anger at the whole thing - the cover-up, and the fact that the majority of people paying attention to the topic in any serious way were spread wide, and thin.

So I guess I my question is: In terms of inadequate face-time with likened-minds - is something holding us back? Like David said the other night - there's a conspiracy afoot. How far reaching is the menace, pretty far, I guess, but I don't believe it's unassailable.

Everybody slips up, form time-to-time, even the spooks.

To answer your question, am I jerk... I dunno, I mean I don't think your wrong to feel that way, but I also think it's all - however annoyingly - part of the process.

For some people it's more than enough just to answer back "yeah, I think there's something to it. Then give them one book, or one documentary, and I mean only one, that's it. And hopefully, things will evolve from there for the more novice-at-heart.

I'm glad somebody knows that I'm still trying to remain open to others that are less informed.

 

[Schuyler]

I hear you. I reached the same point with computers years ago. I used to spend hours trying to help friends and neighbors through their computer issue, but I finally got to the point where I said, 'Go to the store.' or 'It's been awhile since I worked in the field, so I'm out of date. I don't know.' (an easy out).

If someone asks seriously about UFOs I'll supply a few titles, but I won't loan my books any more. They tend not to come back.

 

[marmer]

Ron,

Your reply was absolutely perfect. I would have suggested Dolan's book and some of the names on the "credible" side of the "credible or clown" thread and tell them to go to it. Either they'll get sick of it or they'll figure out how to find useful information on their own.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

I feel strongly that it's time for everyone to get over the idea that Richard Dolan is the bright light at the center of UFOlogy. Do reread his work more critically. I admit, I used to do the same thing. That's because I was 22 and his was the first UFO book I read, so it was new and exciting. Take off your will-to-believe blinders and read his book again.

 

[Schuyler]

Perhaps we ought to do a 'Dolan: Fact or Fancy' thread so as to not throw the subject of this thread off too much. I will do so right now and contribute tomorrow as I've run out of inclination today.

 

[thegreenman]

If anyone asks me in a serious manner about UFOs I point them directly to The Paracast and these forums.

If I feel they are just jerking around I'll send them to any number of other sites.

 

[Gareth]

I thought that was a perfect response Ron. The only thing I would have added is a couple of sightings that would be sure to give him a hard-on for the subject.

Probably mention Gordon Coopers testimony with the landed disc and the filming of it. And 1 or 2 others like the Big Sur or Rendlesham incident. Then leave it there. I might even mention Dave Biednys Caracas sighting indicating the level of trust you have for the person.

I remember trying to engage my step sisters boyfriend once, and put the 2001 press club vid on and showed him a couple of credible witness testimonies. Initially he was pretty interested, then the doubts came in with comments like "this whole thing could just be a film set with actors!". Fair enough... but as I said to him he should trust that Im smart enough to check it out for myself and if Im showing him that should be enough to trust that at the very least the event happened. Really pissed me off.

Then a couple days later he made some snide comment about me looking up conspiracies on my laptop. Intense anger raged through my veins.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

... In the end, you will only deepen your the mystery in your own mind and have precious few answers more than what I have just told you...

yup. it's been getting deeper and deeper since I started listening to the Paracast... and that is not a criticism, but a compliment.

I used to think it was all about ETs, now I don't know what I think other than I think it is more complicated than that.

 

[Gen]

I've come to believe that it's no use talking about certain subjects -- such as UFOs -- to people that only have the first four circuits of their brains turned on.

 

[cyberknight]

Seems to be an 'internal' unconscious dismissal of something that may damage their sense of what they consider reality, their sense of not wanting to be lured outside of the safe zone so to speak.

I had a number of conversation with a few of my friends, good conversations but, right after.. they just went back to the safe zone, and nothing more has been said since. I feel I wasted my time, time I could have used for something else...

 

[paranormal_dada]

Seems to be an 'internal' unconscious dismissal of something that may damage their sense of what they consider reality, their sense of not wanting to be lured outside of the safe zone so to speak.

I had a number of conversation with a few of my friends, good conversations but, right after.. they just went back to the safe zone, and nothing more has been said since. I feel I wasted my time, time I could have used for something else...

Like the curtain being drawn back a little too far and/or too fast for their liking... that look on someone's face, when they realize that it's not all a hollywood production, is almost as terrifying as it is startling.

 

[marmer]

I feel strongly that it's time for everyone to get over the idea that Richard Dolan is the bright light at the center of UFOlogy. Do reread his work more critically. I admit, I used to do the same thing. That's because I was 22 and his was the first UFO book I read, so it was new and exciting. Take off your will-to-believe blinders and read his book again.

That's a little harsh. RonCollins said his friend wanted "an overview" and wanted "to spend a little time looking into" the subject. I agree that Dolan has his faults but as a pure historical overview I can't think of a better starting place. I also recommended researchers from our "credible" list, remember. If the Dolan recommendation was couched in a little healthy skepticism for some of his claims, well, so much the better. I will post my specific thoughts on Dolan in the thread that Schuyler describes in his post.

 

[Ron Collins]

That's a little harsh. RonCollins said his friend wanted "an overview" and wanted "to spend a little time looking into" the subject. I agree that Dolan has his faults but as a pure historical overview I can't think of a better starting place. I also recommended researchers from our "credible" list, remember. If the Dolan recommendation was couched in a little healthy skepticism for some of his claims, well, so much the better. I will post my specific thoughts on Dolan in the thread that Schuyler describes in his post.

It really comes down to what leaps of logic you are willing to accept, and which you are not. But, you must first be exposed to those leaps.

We can nitpick Dolan's book (and I think we should and we may learn more from that process) but regardless it is still a great introduction into the subject as long as it has the caveat of "don't just believe it and be done read the critiques as well and formulate an opinion" attached.

In my opinion there is no work on these subjects that is remotely close to perfect. You must read and reread and learn over time. Then, you will formulate an opinion that is justifiable and have a mental bibliography to support it. Of course, you are allowed to alter that opinion as new information is presented.

 

[thefoundryman]

Over the weekend we had a few friends over. One guy noticed my office book shelf and started to engage me in conversation about it. Basically saying how he had always wanted to devote some time to look into it and maybe I could "give him an overview". To be honest I am at a point now that I do not want to rehash the last several years or spend hours talking with a neophyte on the subject. So I simply said something along the lines of:
There is a well documented phenomenon in UFO sightings. Trying to postulate origin is pointless and will only frustrate the hell out of you. There are only a few good books with good information and credible accounts. But you have to read a mountain of crap and research everything they write to discover those books and authors. There are other phenomenon that may or may not be related to UFO's and that sound patently absurd at first. If you start looking into it you will spend countless hours reading, watching, and listening to topics on the subject. You will glimpse the ridiculous personal and political disputes of prominent personalities in the field. You will most likely find a camp with which you agree and pitch a tent there for a while. In the end, you will only deepen your the mystery in your own mind and have precious few answers more than what I have just told you. My advice is to watch the shows on T.V. whenever you feel the need but if you can, get another hobby.

In the end he wrote down a few book titles, I mentioned a few podcasts and we didn't talk about it again. A year ago, I would have spent the next 2 weeks or more sending him stuff that would probably overwhelm the guy. Maybe I was just in a mood. Has anyone else just reached a point where you would pounce on the opportunity to talk for hours about the subjects with someone knowledgeable but would politely shine the rookie on? is this a phase or have I crossed some barrier?

We should do some fishin' Ron.

 

[Kevin Daly]

Showing too much enthusiasm to those new to the subject would just confirm the stereotype of the wild-eyed zealot in their eyes.

You played it exactly right.

 

[David Biedny]

Ron,

This is indeed an excellent thread, and very timely for me, as I could certainly be called a jerk for the way I've been reacting to folks on these forums recently. I find that my patience levels have been very low lately, and the smallest things just set me off in a completely irrational way. A couple of weeks ago, a few posts on here just made my brain chemistry go bonkers, and I just had to stop posting for awhile. It wasn't any one thing specifically, just a jolt of negativity that made me totally reactive, and not in a good way. I find it just about impossible to engage in a light discussion about these topics, especially UFOs, with folks who have little to no knowledge of the field, there's just no way to give the "Reader's Digest" version of UFOs in some simplified fashion, primarily because it's not a simple, straightforward thing. And to even try to rehash the nonsensical noise, when Daz Smith started in with the Meier stuff, stating that he wanted me to give him some basic evidence, I got totally pissed off and kicked him outta here. I had already warned him privately that I was not willing to politely debate that "case", that there was existing baggage and some deep frustration with the players behind that nonsense, but he felt emboldened enough to push my buttons, and the result was that I cut him off at the knees.

Anyway, I wanted to directly thank you for bringing up this overall topic, it seems like a good enough reason to lend my voice to these forums again, and for those forum members who have the patience and loyalty to stick it out here, I offer you my profuse thanks for being part of this wacky little community, and for putting up with my occasional mood swings.

dB

 

[Bixyboo]

Ron,

This is indeed an excellent thread, and very timely for me, as I could certainly be called a jerk for the way I've been reacting to folks on these forums recently. I find that my patience levels have been very low lately, and the smallest things just set me off in a completely irrational way. A couple of weeks ago, a few posts on here just made my brain chemistry go bonkers, and I just had to stop posting for awhile. It wasn't any one thing specifically, just a jolt of negativity that made me totally reactive, and not in a good way. I find it just about impossible to engage in a light discussion about these topics, especially UFOs, with folks who have little to no knowledge of the field, there's just no way to give the "Reader's Digest" version of UFOs in some simplified fashion, primarily because it's not a simple, straightforward thing. And to even try to rehash the nonsensical noise, when Daz Smith started in with the Meier stuff, stating that he wanted me to give him some basic evidence, I got totally pissed off and kicked him outta here. I had already warned him privately that I was not willing to politely debate that "case", that there was existing baggage and some deep frustration with the players behind that nonsense, but he felt emboldened enough to push my buttons, and the result was that I cut him off at the knees.

Anyway, I wanted to directly thank you for bringing up this overall topic, it seems like a good enough reason to lend my voice to these forums again, and for those forum members who have the patience and loyalty to stick it out here, I offer you my profuse thanks for being part of this wacky little community, and for putting up with my occasional mood swings.

dB

Good to see you back, David. Board didn't feel the same without your input!