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H.P. Lovecraft

<!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> Many of Lovecraft's,(1890-1937) stories espouse the theory of an advanced, prehistorical, non-human civilization; Interdimensional and extraterrestrial beings who played a role in the creation of humanity. Clues to the existence of said beings found in anomalous artifacts, ancient ruins and in the mystical rites and tomes of ancient cults.
Sound familiar?
I am curious as to what sources., (literary or historical), led to his creation of this mythos.
Reply., please.
 
<!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> "Now all my tales are based on the fundamental premise that common human laws and interests and emotions have no validity or significance in the vast cosmos-at-large. To me there is nothing but puerility in a tale in which the human form--and the local human passions and conditions and standards--are depicted as native to other worlds or other universes. To achieve the essence of real externality, whether of time or space or dimension, one must forget that such things as organic life, good and evil, love and hate, and all such local attributes of a negligible and temporary race called mankind, have any existence at all. Only the human scenes and characters must have human qualities. These must be handled with unsparing realism, (not catch-penny romanticism) but when we cross the line to the boundless and hideous unknown-the shadow-haunted Outside-we must remember to leave our humanity and terrestrialism at the threshold."

Lovecraft.,1927
 
I'm reading a book someone suggested at Jeremy's website recently. Have much more to read, but initially the author suggests our universe is one of devolution rather than evolution, citing as one example, the death of the cell. It's a universe of contradiction rather than the universe of perfection from which it sprang. Too convoluted, (and very well argued so far) for me to go into here, but under his premise, after the creation of a two dimensional framework, the natural potential for a third dimension and the striving for a fourth (impossible) took place.

However, the realm of angels (call it what you will, supernatural beings, a universe of Adams and eventually Eves) devolved to humans perhaps because of a force too difficult to overcome. In a universe of contradiction, the second law of thermodynamics, the law of entropy, requires devolution into chaos.

Geeze, don't know why I even started to comment on this because there is no way I can argue his point with any clarity or in the brief manner required of posting.

But his argument makes me wonder where he's going. The book's title and author: The Song of the Greys by Nigel Kerner. I am sure he is of the belief that the Greys are not good guys and that they are of extraterrestrial origin (or so it seems thus far.) What I'm wondering is if he means to eventually say that we will devolve spiritually into what the Greys may have become, leaving humanity and terrestrialism at the threshold. Seems to me there are two sides to that argument.

Had to buy it through an online used book store if anyone is interested. Not a fast read either, but I thank the person who mentioned it at the CoC. Very interesting read.
 
I've read that HP's father may have been associated with or influence by the Theosophists, and a woman that HP knew was formerly in the circle of Aleister Crowley. I would imagine that either of these could be true, or merely the faint connections drummed up by enthusiastic would-be Lovecraft 'experts.'

I have also read that much of the Lovecraft Mythos, which is itself sort of fragmentary and no always consistent story to story, can be traced to the Sumerian mythos, but again this could be fact or wishful thinking on those who like to elevate HP from fiction writer to prophet.

"At the Mountains of Madness" is still one of my favorite stories ever.
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"At the Mountains of Madness" is still one of my favorite stories ever.
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That was a good book, but my favorite is still "The Case Of Charles Dexter Ward". HP must have had some knowledge about ceremonial magic, or knew someone who did.
Did I read somewhere he had one or more of Aleistar Crowleys books? That could explain some things, but not all of his knowledge.
 
Lovecraft was a voracious reader but rarely did anything, or went anywhere (and I do mean anything or anywhere). He lived his life in reading books, writing his letters, and in between his own ears. Most of his close personal friendships were amateur/semi professional writers like himself, who he spent most of his waking hours writing to.

His family was "genteel" but had little or no money, leaving H.P. to think himself a gentleman, above work and above taking money for his writing. He loved finery and yet sabotaged himself at almost every turn along the way to being a successful writer. Almost everything he wrote was in amateur publication and his work would have been in the dustbin of history had not several of his long-time friends not pitched in to put together a Lovecraft anthology at his death.

Note: I wouldn't say that the elder beings were NOT technologically advanced, most of them used magic/godlike ability or slave races to accomplish amazing feats of building. I think only the fungi from Yugoth were considered a technologically gifted race. Races like the Elder Things used Shoggoths as slaves to build the city at "the mountains of madness".

Finally, while I recommend reading the works of Lovecraft, be prepared for wildly varying quality of literature. Some of it is amazingly imaginative and very unsettling, but some is so stilted and the dialog so affected that it is truly painful to read. Dialog for H.P. was hard, I suspect he had so little experience actually talking to anyone he didn't know how to write it.
 
Lovecraft was a voracious reader but rarely did anything, or went anywhere (and I do mean anything or anywhere). He lived his life in reading books, writing his letters, and in between his own ears. Most of his close personal friendships were amateur/semi professional writers like himself, who he spent most of his waking hours writing to.

His family was "genteel" but had little or no money, leaving H.P. to think himself a gentleman, above work and above taking money for his writing. He loved finery and yet sabotaged himself at almost every turn along the way to being a successful writer. Almost everything he wrote was in amateur publication and his work would have been in the dustbin of history had not several of his long-time friends not pitched in to put together a Lovecraft anthology at his death.

Note: I wouldn't say that the elder beings were NOT technologically advanced, most of them used magic/godlike ability or slave races to accomplish amazing feats of building. I think only the fungi from Yugoth were considered a technologically gifted race. Races like the Elder Things used Shoggoths as slaves to build the city at "the mountains of madness".

Finally, while I recommend reading the works of Lovecraft, be prepared for wildly varying quality of literature. Some of it is amazingly imaginative and very unsettling, but some is so stilted and the dialog so affected that it is truly painful to read. Dialog for H.P. was hard, I suspect he had so little experience actually talking to anyone he didn't know how to write it.

He travelled a fair amount given his money and the time. He visited as far as Florida and New Orleans south and Montreal north, and wrote about them (including a strange travel guide to Montreal written entirely in character from the perspective of an 18th century English gentleman).

He conversed with people from a much wider area of course, via letter. But in an era when a major portion of Americans didn't own cars, and there was no interstate system, it's not bad. He of course lived in New York for several years, having a rough time (failed job hunts, all of clothes were stolen), and marking a period of his life of virulent racism that eventually subsided, as can be seen in both his letters and fiction.

As for influences, the man was a teetotaller, and stayed away from drugs, didn't even drink alcohol. While extremely well read and knowledgeable about the topics that interested him (astronomy, Classical Rome), he had little practical knowledge of the world despite every good reason that he should have. For example, several of his literary friends, who he visited in New York, were gay but it wasn't until well into his adult life that Lovecraft even knew homosexuality existed. He was amiable and clearly charismatic in certain respects (he did form a formidable circle of friends around him), and had a self-deprecating sense of humor, but he was in many ways a fairly extreme example of what we would today call a nerd.

Lovecraft's father was not a major influence in his life. Instead, the great positive influence in his life is his grandfather, who instilled in him a great love of history, antiquity, and myth. Probably the second most positive influence on Lovecraft was his wife Sonia. During the years they were together, she clearly worked to open him up, and he realized it and appreciated it. Unfortunately, he had been raised by suffocating aunts, and eventually he returned to that environment in Providence and retreated into a modified form of childhood.

This was the period when he wrote the works he is most famous for, his cosmic horror that moved away from the occult. He was a very strong skeptic of Houdini, in the sense we would use skeptic today. He was proud of collaborating with Houdini on a story, and according to Lovecraft in his letters, and I believe him though he may have interpreted these plans as more solid than Houdini did, there were plans for Lovecraft to co-author a book and expose of the occult with Houdini, the greatest debunker of his day, plans that were cut short by Houdini's death.

As for Theosophy, Lovecraft was initially somewhat aware of it when a fellow weird fiction writer brought it to his attention more fully. Lovecraft thought it was utter bunk, but loved it as material for his stories.
 
If Lovecraft had stayed with his wife (whatever his sexual leanings) it is likely he would have become a famous author in his own time...especially if he had learned how to write in a more modern manner instead of being stuck in his overly wordy victorian style. (mood be damned, make some action man!)

She was about the only person in his life who insisted that he take his writing seriously and..GASP!!! try and earn some cash. THAT BITCH!!!;)

Its been about 10 years since I read his biography, but I think the term, nerd, is a bit nice on your part. Maybe later in life he had risen to the level of nerd, but initially his disfunctional view of life and a positively aristocratic sense of entitlement put him in the area of being almost delusional.
 
If Lovecraft had stayed with his wife (whatever his sexual leanings) it is likely he would have become a famous author in his own time...especially if he had learned how to write in a more modern manner instead of being stuck in his overly wordy victorian style. (mood be damned, make some action man!)

She was about the only person in his life who insisted that he take his writing seriously and..GASP!!! try and earn some cash. THAT BITCH!!!;)

Its been about 10 years since I read his biography, but I think the term, nerd, is a bit nice on your part. Maybe later in life he had risen to the level of nerd, but initially his disfunctional view of life and a positively aristocratic sense of entitlement put him in the area of being almost delusional.





Well., I see conversation has degraded to the level of personality. I don't care if he ate babies while wearing his mom's corset soaked from head to toe in whale oil. What was his source material?
 
Most of it was pure imagination. Some of it was a love of Poe. Some of it was the Babalonian mythos.

If you want to hear that there really was a Necronomicon, and Lovecraft read it, you'll be disappointed. If you want to believe that he channelled alien truths of elder horrors, then again you will likely still be disappointed. (Yes, he "channelled" his creativity, but I wouldn't call this supernatural.) Did he loose the difference between reality and fiction, something like Whitley Strieber? Doubt it. I think he always viewed his stories as fiction.

"The Case Of Charles Dexter Ward" is indeed a great story.

I often joke that, based on his creatures, Lovecraft had a phobia againts sea food.
 
http://www.strangehorizons.com/2001/20010618/lovecraft.shtml

Here is a summary by Mack Knopf on H.P. Lovecraft, his writing and a very basic overview of his point of view of the universe. If all you want in the future is a piece of research, we have this thing called Google...maybe you've heard of it. There are over 3 million hits on H.P. Lovecraft. Enjoy.

BTW...as far as I can tell H.P. just had a vivid imagination and like many authors actually MADE SHIT UP. He explored the themes of fear, nihilism, and mans insignificant role in a universe, that just happened to be ruled by unknowable and super powerful gods and alien races.

Only Nodens (a God), sort of relates to man in any reasonable way and even he is capricious and unknowable. Nodens appears as a gigantic human being and is commonly seen to be the stand in for what Christians would call...God.

Most of the other races and gods have no direct correlation with any earth bound pantheon at all. Thats the whole point. Anything you know or can find comfort in, is not a part of the beings that rule the cosmos. There is no comfort, no protection, no safety, no recognition, no loyalty, no love out there. They hate you and they want to destroy you, or at best, make a slave of you. Nihilism would be a comfort compaired to what lies just beyond our doorstep.

I'll stop posting now to give the American lit. professors and the american horror editors a chance to help you out with your research...
 
That's more like it., passionate discourse. I have done the research. I'm not looking for the grand grimoire. And I know the Necronomicon is bullshit. I also know that lovecraft was an elitist fuck who crafted his personal racisim into many of his stories.
I'm simply curious about the obvious similarities between his fiction and many of the current theories on ufos, cryptozoology and other paranormal phenomena. Charles Fort was an influence. A big one, I would imagine.

Oh!, thanks for the link.
 
Lovecraft was a misanthrope. Then again, if you lived his life, you'd probably be one too.

He hung out with some scummy people, and the funniest part about his life, is that so many losers believe that the Necronomicon is real.

So many people have been utterly duped by the fact that he made it all up.

I find it incredibly funny that he ever became as popular as he is. Posthumously of course.
 
Lovecraft was a misanthrope. Then again, if you lived his life, you'd probably be one too.

He hung out with some scummy people, and the funniest part about his life, is that so many losers believe that the Necronomicon is real.

So many people have been utterly duped by the fact that he made it all up.

I find it incredibly funny that he ever became as popular as he is. Posthumously of course.



You mean like L. Ron Heybubgotadollar?
 
Lovecraft did deal with truly fascinating subjects, but let's face it, the guy wrote like Philboyd Studge*. Whenever possible he avoided employing character dialog because, by his own admission, he simply had no talent for it. That's why so many of his tales are more than ninety per cent purple narrative that drips from the page.
I don't belive that criticism can be ignored by dismissing it as a reflection of contemporary literary style. When compared to many of his contemoporaries, such as H.G. Wells or the even earlier works of Abrose Bierce, Lovecraft seems to suffer from a serious case of literary constipation, to put it politely.


(*Philboyd Studge was a creation of the late Kurt Vonnegut. Whenever he produceed a book or article that seemed heavy handed and clumsy, Vonnegut would attribute its real authorship to poor old Philboyd.)
 
Agreed, Lovecraft was no master of the written word...however, he did lead the genre into entirely new ground.

If I had to give a modern equivalent to what Lovecraft invented I would have to point to Stephen Kings, The Dark Tower series. Everything that King has written in the past 20 years has in some way connected to that series, even if its only symbolic. He built a coherent universe and then hung stories on it and the stories intersected thematically, symbolically, even with cross over characters. What was happening around the main story of the Tower seemed to bleed over to seemingly unrelated but intertwined stories.

King does site Lovecraft as an influence in his book "On Writing" and I suspect he borrowed the idea of a coherent "book universe" from Lovecraft. Of course, King does it an order of magnitude better than Lovecraft, but H.P. should get some sort of props.

IMHO
 
His writing can actually be quite good when he wasn't trying. His letters read well, and some of his later works have good moments of clarity (typically early in the story). But then he starts to lay it on, and it was too much.

I think his influence is a bit more profound, but I'm not ready to give him the significance Colavito does in his book, where he argues that Lovecraft invented UFOs (well specifically, that he invented ancient astronauts, but he does try to argue the UFO angle). I started reading the book, but was interrupted and need to start again. I can see some of his point, but it misses a much bigger occult and cultural tradition that Lovecraft was influenced by. It's no accident at least some early contactees, like Adamski, were involved in such things before 1947.
 
I like Lovecraft's writing. I think most people are turned off to it because our educational system is graduating illiterates as if it's perfectly normal for someone to have 12 years of schooling and still not be able to read or write a coherent sentence.
 
If it were translated to that text language crap it would be readable for retards, but not the average person over the age of 30.

Our educational system in this country has book upon book of classic literature, and yet kids can't read anything above a 3rd grade level.

If the people in our educational institutions gave a damn, we'd have kids that could actually comprehend the works of classical masters, and might even know what our Founding Fathers truly intended. Explaining to the average 18 year old what their rights are, or what the Constitution means, is a lot like trying to explain particle physics to a goddamned goldfish.
 
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