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Paul Kimball
Guest
My good friend Greg Bishop knows as much about the contactees, Giant Rock and the Integretron as anyone... so I filmed him talking about them in 2007.
Paul
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Greg Bishop discusses Contactees, the Integratron and Giant Rock
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My good friend Greg Bishop knows as much about the contactees, Giant Rock and the Integretron as anyone... so I filmed him talking about them in 2007.
Paul
T
Tommy Allison
Guest
Um.. Okay. This guy was given these instructions by aliens, and he was supposed to build it so that he could have universal wisdom, and longevity. He then has a heart attack in 1978. What does that say about the aliens?
The Integratron. Pretty cool idea though.
The Integratron. Pretty cool idea though.
P
Paul Kimball
Guest
I certainly don't buy the contactee stuff, although like Greg I entertain the possibility that a few of the early contactees might have had some form of legitimate encounter with a non-human intelligence, and interpreted it through the prism of their own place and time (earlier "contactees" would have perhaps applied a religious interpretation). However, whether you accept the contactees as legit or not, they remain an integral part of the history of ufology - exopolitics is really just a darker, modernized version of contactee-ism, and the whole "alien abduction" phenomenon can trace its basic roots to the contactees, although it is a far different construct now.
Besides, if nothing else the original contactees were pretty good performance artists!
T
TerraX
Guest
To be honest, I was a bit upset with Greg Bishop and the obituary he wrote after Howard Menger's passing.
Plan B From The Bacardi Room: Annoyed With Greg Bishop
What little I knew about Greg Bishop's work in the 'field', I at least expected more from him than quasi-intellectual-skeptical cheapshots. But I admit my response is influenced by some emotion. I'll also say that I'm not that impressed by Bishop's 'work' even though he claims to have studied the contactee movement of the 1950s and 60s. We all take different approaches of course and everyone has a right to formulate opinions and theories.
What I don't understand Paul is your apprehension toward the contactee movement and from my perspective you're stopping short of accepting that ETs contacted humans. I'll readily admit that it is chaotic and a mess. There's an influence from all sides of the spectrum who will give that particular aspect of ufology all kinds of spin and the 'contactees' themselves didn't exactly leave a rock-solid impression. However, at the core there's something that (even you admit) wont go away. Perhaps we all need some fine-tuning in order to get to the truth.
And who do you think are the new performance artists Paul? You're good at it as well.Besides, if nothing else the original contactees were pretty good performance artists!
spacebrother
Greg Bishop
Paul,
Do you have a recording of my talk from your Conference "Were the Early UFO Contactees An Unrecognized Art Movement?" I think you might not, as there were no cameras or other recordings made, as I recall. Too bad, it's the only time it's been presented.
I put up a comment at "Ed"'s blog ("Bacardi Room"), but he never responded and now the site's disappeared.
Do you have a recording of my talk from your Conference "Were the Early UFO Contactees An Unrecognized Art Movement?" I think you might not, as there were no cameras or other recordings made, as I recall. Too bad, it's the only time it's been presented.
I put up a comment at "Ed"'s blog ("Bacardi Room"), but he never responded and now the site's disappeared.
T
TerraX
Guest
Hi Greg. I did respond a couple of days ago (on my blog), kinda thanking you for reaching out. Lately I've been more then a little bit disappointed with the 'field' and the people that are in it. Earlier this week Tim Good was 'not amused' (to put it mildly) that I put up some of his material on my blog, and I deleted his material as soon as I got word. Yesterday I was in a particularly bad mood and deleted the blog. You know, when you start lashing out at people who mean well then it's time to take a break. I think I did the same thing to you regarding the Howard Menger obituary. My apologies.
It's strange that the UFO mystery can bring about such strong sentiments. Much of it is in the eye of the beholder and purely selfish reasoning. I guess the latter stresses me out.
I know you're interested in the 'early contactees' and I have a similar interest but I can already see we take different approaches. My conviction is that some of it is in fact real. George Adamski and Howard Menger, at times seem as complete cooks, but when you learn that people around them (and sometimes investigators such as C.A. Honey and Tim Good) experience things as well, than the matter is much more complex then you realise.
Of course it's a cultural and sociological thing, but I'm convinced that it is also caused by external sources (meaning another intelligence). In my opinion there's some kind of 'awareness program' initiated by the 'ETs'.
They are right on the periferie of what you can understand or accept, should you not understand or not accept then you have the option to discard the information - think it's all a bunch of crap and live your life happily after, or you can theorise to hearts content. Free will. If you do accept it or have a basic understanding, then another level opens up to you. Personal confirmation. That is what people have been experiencing and relating to the masses as they did in the 1950s and 60s, and onward. It also continues till this day.
Why do I have an 'understanding' of it? Why am I frustrated? It should be simple at this point. I've had my own experiences and it's so difficult to relate that to other people, given the circumstances. I guess I'm totally fed up with the latter.
spacebrother
Greg Bishop
Apology accepted!
I always try to be civil (as you do) even if I'm really angry, since the one you're fighting with may turn out to have some interesting info or may even become a friend some day. This has happened to me more than once!
As for my attitude towards the contactees, I DO think that some of them had some sort of actual experience with some "other" and chose to couch it in the language and expectations of the time. Look at Pamela Stonebrooke.
If you have to time, check out my other posts on contactees at ufomystic. (They're mixed with Nicks, but you can see my name on the posts before you click through.) You might like the Frank Stranges obit.
For further proof, look at my screen name on this forum!
Best,
Greg
I always try to be civil (as you do) even if I'm really angry, since the one you're fighting with may turn out to have some interesting info or may even become a friend some day. This has happened to me more than once!
As for my attitude towards the contactees, I DO think that some of them had some sort of actual experience with some "other" and chose to couch it in the language and expectations of the time. Look at Pamela Stonebrooke.
If you have to time, check out my other posts on contactees at ufomystic. (They're mixed with Nicks, but you can see my name on the posts before you click through.) You might like the Frank Stranges obit.
For further proof, look at my screen name on this forum!
Best,
Greg
Greg I wanted to contribute something here as an addition to your post on Menger at your site, so our readers might contribute further information if they have any.
In the mid-1960s, Jim Moseley and I had lunch with Menger, during which time he essentially said the same thing he "revealed" on Long John's program. Even after getting attacked in print over the years in Moseley's serious version of Saucer News, the two became friends.
As to Sanderson, I heard years and years ago (I can't recall the source) that he could invent stories for the sake of selling books and giving lectures. Let's leave it at that.
In the mid-1960s, Jim Moseley and I had lunch with Menger, during which time he essentially said the same thing he "revealed" on Long John's program. Even after getting attacked in print over the years in Moseley's serious version of Saucer News, the two became friends.
As to Sanderson, I heard years and years ago (I can't recall the source) that he could invent stories for the sake of selling books and giving lectures. Let's leave it at that.
T
TerraX
Guest
I remember seeing a movie with Joe Norton called Brother From Another Planet (or something of that nature), many years back. Strange that I connect that memory to you, seeing that you use the nickname Spacebrother. Nevermind.
Yes, of course contactees of the past related their accounts in the language and expectations of the time. I'm even of the opinion that a number of them embellished their experiences, and I'm not including those who I think were absolute frauds. When you take that into account there still remains a core of intriquing material which might just be exactly what it is cropped up to be.
A few weeks back I saw Paul (Kimball) make a post on his blog where he says that there might be other explanations for 'nuts and bolts ET(H) crafts'. (I'm generalising a bit here.) And I must say I was a bit disappointed with that because I think sometimes when there is a 'nuts and bolts thing' - that's exactly what it is. You don't have to look any further. You don't have to swing to the other side of the spectrum and think every aspect is non-physical or paranormal.
That's what I think also happend to the early contactees. Some of them, like Adamski, Menger and others, had genuine experiences. They related that the best they could but also took a few liberties with the truth at the same time.
Maybe that was also a 'sign of the time', exagerrate a bit to make it more juicy. (Side note here, it happens in Hollywood movies all the time, maybe comparing the early contactees to that helps to put it in perspective.)
Regards,
TerraX
(Ed)
T
TerraX
Guest
Then why did many people claim to have seen the exact same UFOs themselves while in the presence of Adamski (and sometimes without)?
Alfred Bailey, Betty Bailey, Alice Wells, Lucy McGinnis, George Hunt Williamson and Betty Hunt Williamson, signed an affadavit claiming to have witnessed 'the landing in the desert'. That's not all. Jerrold Baker (later retracted his statement), Tony Belmonte, investigator C.A. Honey and associate Laura Mundo claimed to have witnessed strange events as well.
Then there is Madeline Rodeffer who was present when they filmed Adamski's most wellknown footage in 1965. She still sticks by the story till this day. A Mr. Tollman signed an affadavit as well, claiming he saw a craft touching down. Then there are the people that claimed to have seen the exact same craft Adamski first photographed, Basil van den Berg, Major Hans C. Petersen, Fred Steckling, Glenn Steckling, Stephen Darbishire (later retracted - later reconfirmed), Adrian Meyers, Hugo Vega, Brad Mildern and three police officers, Sergeant Tony Dodd, Constable Alan Dale and a third unnamed police officer claimed to have seen the exact same craft;
If Adamski is such a hoaxer, then why did (and do) a lot of people claim to have seen the UFOs or witnessed events?
If I'm not mistaken Ray Stanford made some claims of having had contact (or some experiences) himself, but later turned into somewhat of a skeptic who also deliberately tried to fool people (if my memory serves me right). Here's some information on that (and the early contactees) by Bill Hamilton;
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/et031.html
Hmm. Just noticed this (from the link above);
Add Bill Hamilton to the witness list.
T
TerraX
Guest
That's what I've been trying to convey for years. It becomes statistically impossible that it's all a hoax and that all the people involved are liars, delusional or mistaken.
Concerning Ray Stanford, I seem to recall that he visited Adamski and had a chat. Adamski, who spoke a bit 'wordly', said something like; 'if it wasn't for Roosevelt (and the prohibition) I didn't have to go in this saucer crap'. (Maybe they had a drink at the time, I don't know.)
Ray Stanford took Adamski's word as an admission of guilt. There's also an episode were the Stanford brothers visit Dan Fry and claim to have found evidence of fraud in one of Fry's movies. I seem to recall that that particular story can be found on Daniel Fry Dot Com: Home
Lots of vintage material on that site.
GeorgeLoBuono
Paranormal Novice
Contact is fairly easy to explain. Corso noted the following:
Corso wrote that the Pentagon realized how a thought-reading alien headband from the Roswell crash worked after the Pentagon did research on long brain waves (like e.l.f.’s).
Corso wrote, "The medical examiner wrote that measurements of brain activity taken from the EBE (extraterrestrial biological entity) who was still barely alive at Roswell showed that its electronic signature, at least what they were able to measure with equipment back in 1947, displayed a signal similar to what we would call long, low-frequency waves. And the examiner referred to a description by one of the Roswell Army Air Field doctors that the creature's brain lobes seem to have been not just physiologically and neurologically integrated but integrated by an electromagnetic current as well." In other words, extremely long waves not only occur in the human brain; they are found in alien brains, as well. Extremely low frequency waves, or e.l.f.’s, are also used in alien mind-activated technology (p. 192, The Day After Roswell).
As a University of Chicago physicist is famous for proving, long, low frequency waves can pass straight through the body of a human (or alien) and through other dense structures. Why? Because an atom is mostly just a void of seemingly empty space. The nucleus of an atom can be compared to a small, bizarrely fluctuating pea situated at mid-field in a large football stadium, while the electron is but a tiny micro-dot located way out in the furthest bleachers. So, energy waves can pass through an atom easily.
Energy waves can pass through the internal and external structure of your head,
as well as the seemingly solid objects around you. As was documented in a series of experiments done under carefully controlled conditions at the Stanford Research Institute in Palo Alto during the 1970's, people can sensitize themselves to certain energy waves in order to remotely view a distant person's perceptions, effectively reading another person's thoughts.
How can they do so? Human brain wave frequencies normally range from about 5 hertz (cycles per second) to 30 hertz, although they can spike beyond that range, which allows for some unusual phenomenon, to say the least. A resting human’s brain waves range from 5 to 11 hertz---those “extremely low frequency” wavelengths (e.l.f.'s). They’re part of the basis for telepathy.
The Army’s discovery in Roswell implies that we, too, can cause thoughts to stream out and away from, or at angles to our brain synapses (connections between nerve cells) via e.l.f.'s. In addition, we may be able to leap beyond our brain nerve structure via what some physicists call “scalar electromagnetic” frequencies in order to nearly instantaneously communicate across great distances.
In short, Corso suggested that way back in 1947, the Army had evidence that aliens could reach out beyond their brains to interact via mind-activated/mind-sensing “psychotronic” technology. Evidence suggested that even without advanced technology, the Roswell aliens’ brains were able to communicate with each other.
How does a brain focus energy waves in order to do telepathy and remote sensing? Your brain has about 10 billion brain cells in it, each of which has gentle curvatures in it that can focus your attention in every direction without even turning your head to face one way, or another. Better yet, each one of those brain cells has from 10,000 to 20,000 tiny string-like dendrites reaching out to communicate with other brain cells, and there’s abundant curvature there, also. Given that there are 3 trillion smaller atoms contained in the last section of your index finger, alone, your brain contains more than 100 trillion atoms in it. Each atom has different varieties of curvature in it, and that too, is conducive to complex focusing (via nearly instantaneous communication across energy plasma). Better still, within each atom are an even greater number of quanta (atomic particles and packets of energy) that can focus energy in various ways. Although it isn’t easy to control one single quantum, your thoughts are a larger, aggregate manipulation (cohering and decohering) of many quanta. As a recent feature film noted, the variety of possible combinations of signals between brain cells in your head is greater than the total number of atoms in this universe! So, there are fantastic capabilities in your mind, and there are even more between a number of minds. As some people say, there’s a universe within.
Those e.l.f.'s in a brain correspond to a restful, reflective state of mind. As Russel Targ, PhD, notes, you have to be able to make your mind blank, like a dark black screen, in order to do such remote sensing.
Most contactees say that aliens rely on telepathy. The reason for doing so is the greater, more condensed information capability. More advanced telepathy may be done using "squeezed states," a convergance and canceling out of electromagnetism that causes fluctuations of "negative energy, places where energy is "less than zero." See Scientific American, Jan 2000 on negative energy. Such energy may be able to tunnel down through deeper, faster fluctuations in spacetime, while also expanding far outward at the same time (essentially in extra dimension, in the most literal sense of the word.
Once we see that aliens exist and are visiting, contact is the logical next step. So it should be expected, both physical and telepathic (via psychotronically boosted telepathy, in an alien's case, of course). **Those who object to Corso's veracity should read Michael Salla's latest book containing a chapter that refutes Friedman, Randle and Sparks' dismissals of Corso based on relatively minor details in his bio.
http://www.alienmindbook.org
Corso wrote that the Pentagon realized how a thought-reading alien headband from the Roswell crash worked after the Pentagon did research on long brain waves (like e.l.f.’s).
Corso wrote, "The medical examiner wrote that measurements of brain activity taken from the EBE (extraterrestrial biological entity) who was still barely alive at Roswell showed that its electronic signature, at least what they were able to measure with equipment back in 1947, displayed a signal similar to what we would call long, low-frequency waves. And the examiner referred to a description by one of the Roswell Army Air Field doctors that the creature's brain lobes seem to have been not just physiologically and neurologically integrated but integrated by an electromagnetic current as well." In other words, extremely long waves not only occur in the human brain; they are found in alien brains, as well. Extremely low frequency waves, or e.l.f.’s, are also used in alien mind-activated technology (p. 192, The Day After Roswell).
As a University of Chicago physicist is famous for proving, long, low frequency waves can pass straight through the body of a human (or alien) and through other dense structures. Why? Because an atom is mostly just a void of seemingly empty space. The nucleus of an atom can be compared to a small, bizarrely fluctuating pea situated at mid-field in a large football stadium, while the electron is but a tiny micro-dot located way out in the furthest bleachers. So, energy waves can pass through an atom easily.
Energy waves can pass through the internal and external structure of your head,
as well as the seemingly solid objects around you. As was documented in a series of experiments done under carefully controlled conditions at the Stanford Research Institute in Palo Alto during the 1970's, people can sensitize themselves to certain energy waves in order to remotely view a distant person's perceptions, effectively reading another person's thoughts.
How can they do so? Human brain wave frequencies normally range from about 5 hertz (cycles per second) to 30 hertz, although they can spike beyond that range, which allows for some unusual phenomenon, to say the least. A resting human’s brain waves range from 5 to 11 hertz---those “extremely low frequency” wavelengths (e.l.f.'s). They’re part of the basis for telepathy.
The Army’s discovery in Roswell implies that we, too, can cause thoughts to stream out and away from, or at angles to our brain synapses (connections between nerve cells) via e.l.f.'s. In addition, we may be able to leap beyond our brain nerve structure via what some physicists call “scalar electromagnetic” frequencies in order to nearly instantaneously communicate across great distances.
In short, Corso suggested that way back in 1947, the Army had evidence that aliens could reach out beyond their brains to interact via mind-activated/mind-sensing “psychotronic” technology. Evidence suggested that even without advanced technology, the Roswell aliens’ brains were able to communicate with each other.
How does a brain focus energy waves in order to do telepathy and remote sensing? Your brain has about 10 billion brain cells in it, each of which has gentle curvatures in it that can focus your attention in every direction without even turning your head to face one way, or another. Better yet, each one of those brain cells has from 10,000 to 20,000 tiny string-like dendrites reaching out to communicate with other brain cells, and there’s abundant curvature there, also. Given that there are 3 trillion smaller atoms contained in the last section of your index finger, alone, your brain contains more than 100 trillion atoms in it. Each atom has different varieties of curvature in it, and that too, is conducive to complex focusing (via nearly instantaneous communication across energy plasma). Better still, within each atom are an even greater number of quanta (atomic particles and packets of energy) that can focus energy in various ways. Although it isn’t easy to control one single quantum, your thoughts are a larger, aggregate manipulation (cohering and decohering) of many quanta. As a recent feature film noted, the variety of possible combinations of signals between brain cells in your head is greater than the total number of atoms in this universe! So, there are fantastic capabilities in your mind, and there are even more between a number of minds. As some people say, there’s a universe within.
Those e.l.f.'s in a brain correspond to a restful, reflective state of mind. As Russel Targ, PhD, notes, you have to be able to make your mind blank, like a dark black screen, in order to do such remote sensing.
Most contactees say that aliens rely on telepathy. The reason for doing so is the greater, more condensed information capability. More advanced telepathy may be done using "squeezed states," a convergance and canceling out of electromagnetism that causes fluctuations of "negative energy, places where energy is "less than zero." See Scientific American, Jan 2000 on negative energy. Such energy may be able to tunnel down through deeper, faster fluctuations in spacetime, while also expanding far outward at the same time (essentially in extra dimension, in the most literal sense of the word.
Once we see that aliens exist and are visiting, contact is the logical next step. So it should be expected, both physical and telepathic (via psychotronically boosted telepathy, in an alien's case, of course). **Those who object to Corso's veracity should read Michael Salla's latest book containing a chapter that refutes Friedman, Randle and Sparks' dismissals of Corso based on relatively minor details in his bio.
http://www.alienmindbook.org
David Biedny
Paranormal Adept
To come on these forums and quote Miguel Salla as a source of useful information is to go tap dancing, while drunk, in a fresh minefield. Especially when you're someone without a background or any useful credentials, Mr. LoBuono. This isn't the Jerry Pippick Show or Snoory's Toast, you're in a place with people who still have working brains. Watch your step.
dB
dB
Stillborn
Skilled Investigator
Lol, you check his site out and see the Pip and Snoore interviews, or was that a luck guess?
GeorgeLoBuono
Paranormal Novice
"Working brains," David. Some of us take physics literally. Since a brain doesn't move objects in time, I'll assume you aren't a scientist. Seriously, since you're an adiministrator I'm disappointed to see you jump in so quickly to try to squelch contrary thinking. And what is the discussion about? Alien contact and telepathy. Other boards try to leave it as wide open as is the subject area--about which few of us can be smug.
David, is your work in sci fi fiction "credentials" for an alien, and or alien science discussion? A breakout subject like aliens is so far out of the box, so much beyond the mainstream notion of convention, that it isn't about credentials, per se. It's about the evidence, the logic, the sources, and the basic scientific rigor of your discussion. This is not an old topic taught in universities, so it takes fresh approaches and an open mind. I'll respect your opinions, even welcome your departures, but I won't try to cut you off. Here's a basic test: consider what you write here as though we're in an auditorium, any normal venue, and polite exchange of ideas proceeds, very publicly. Is that last statement of yours up to that very basic minimum?
I know I'm probably 5-10 years older than you, David, and I've debated a number of well trained PhD's on the subject--I invite their challenges. It's a good way to weed out errors. I also know some PhD's who respect my work--I just got a grant from the chair of a well known Cambridge foundation that has worked this subject area---to put my ebook into print. So please, David. Discuss specifics, not mocking tones, wholesale dismissals (without a single word about the details), and personalized redress.
David, is your work in sci fi fiction "credentials" for an alien, and or alien science discussion? A breakout subject like aliens is so far out of the box, so much beyond the mainstream notion of convention, that it isn't about credentials, per se. It's about the evidence, the logic, the sources, and the basic scientific rigor of your discussion. This is not an old topic taught in universities, so it takes fresh approaches and an open mind. I'll respect your opinions, even welcome your departures, but I won't try to cut you off. Here's a basic test: consider what you write here as though we're in an auditorium, any normal venue, and polite exchange of ideas proceeds, very publicly. Is that last statement of yours up to that very basic minimum?
I know I'm probably 5-10 years older than you, David, and I've debated a number of well trained PhD's on the subject--I invite their challenges. It's a good way to weed out errors. I also know some PhD's who respect my work--I just got a grant from the chair of a well known Cambridge foundation that has worked this subject area---to put my ebook into print. So please, David. Discuss specifics, not mocking tones, wholesale dismissals (without a single word about the details), and personalized redress.