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Gene's Elemental / David and Bill's Apparition



I

interestedINitall

Guest
The February show was fascinating! I'd love to hear more about what Gene saw that night when his ex woke him up and said she'd seen something.

David, you mentioned that you got an impression of "misspent youth" from the apparition. Do you think that either you or Bill might have been thinking/feeling that and somehow projected it in the form of this girl? I ask because the encounter doesn't sound like the "usual" ghost story. Have you considered a possible UFO angle?

Thanks for the exceptional (and that's saying something considering how consistently good the shows are) show!
 

David Biedny

Paranormal Adept
I really don't think there was any "UFO" angle to this experience, the impression that we talked about was more emotional than physical in nature. I'm really, truly not sure of what we saw that day, but the image of her face is still quite fresh in my mind.

And thanks for the kind comments about the show!

dB
 

Yakuzablitz

Paranormal Novice
Can you draw, David? I'm not sure if it would further the discussion any but I'd certainly be interested in seeing what this girl's face looked like. A sketch isn't photographic evidence but at least it's something...
 

Aaron LeClair

Paranormal Maven
Water elemental is the same as water poltergeist I guess. I've dealt with a lot of people claiming to have experienced water poltergeist. I've never had any experiences with them however. Leaky plumbing, yes.

I haven't listened to the latest show, but will get to it by Thursday probably.
 
I

interestedINitall

Guest
Yakuzablitz said:
Can you draw, David? I'm not sure if it would further the discussion any but I'd certainly be interested in seeing what this girl's face looked like. A sketch isn't photographic evidence but at least it's something...

Now that's an excellent idea.
 

Moshi Dayan

Skilled Investigator
I find the designation of "water elemental" very interesting.
Perhaps someone could elaborate on the reason for this designation.
Humans can (in theory) develop magical abilities related to the elements of air, earth, fire, water, or wood.
I am very interested in "elementals",
and the animation of, and direction thereof.
Was anyone involved in this studying Kabbalah,
alchemistry, or necromancy?
Elementals first appear in alchemical works.
Paracelsus enumberates four: gnomes, earth elementals; undines, water elementals; sylphs, air elementals; and salamanders, fire elementals.
All of these are found in folklore as well as alchemy.
Their names are often used interchangeably with similar beings from folklore.
Such beings are often regarded as supernatural creatures found in Neo-Pagan religions.
It has several meanings, according to different definitions.
One is that it is a creature that is heavily associated with an element like fire or air.
Another is that all the nature spirit creatures like gnomes or elves are elementals, and others say that almost any spiritual entity is an elemental.
Perhaps the sender is a begining alchemist?
Thank You.
 

Gene Steinberg

Forum Super Hero
Staff member
Moshi Dayan said:
I find the designation of "water elemental" very interesting.
Perhaps someone could elaborate on the reason for this designation.
Humans can (in theory) develop magical abilities related to the elements of air, earth, fire, water, or wood.
I am very interested in "elementals",
and the animation of, and direction thereof.
Was anyone involved in this studying Kabbalah,
alchemistry, or necromancy?
Elementals first appear in alchemical works.
Paracelsus enumberates four: gnomes, earth elementals; undines, water elementals; sylphs, air elementals; and salamanders, fire elementals.
All of these are found in folklore as well as alchemy.
Their names are often used interchangeably with similar beings from folklore.
Such beings are often regarded as supernatural creatures found in Neo-Pagan religions.
It has several meanings, according to different definitions.
One is that it is a creature that is heavily associated with an element like fire or air.
Another is that all the nature spirit creatures like gnomes or elves are elementals, and others say that almost any spiritual entity is an elemental.
Perhaps the sender is a begining alchemist?
Thank You.

Actually that would be my ex-wife's label for what she saw. In fact, Geneva has been here a time or two, so maybe she'll be willing to expand on this particular event. Frankly, what I've said on the air is all I remember of it.

Yes, we have remained friends all these years. I've remarried and that marriage has lasted 30 years so far.
 

AJ38

Paranormal Novice
David, looking back, do you wish you had done something other than sitting watching the apparition, like going over and attempting to touch it etc?
I dont think I would have btw, prob wouldn't have even gone as close as you!
 

Aaron LeClair

Paranormal Maven
If you think about it, you are more likely to get hurt by the living than you are the dead. Or some psychic projection.

Not sure what I would have done in David's situation. I might have said something. Doubt I would try and touch something that isn't all that physical. I may have went over closer, but he was pretty close. It all depends on how good of a look and how sure or not I was about what it was I was seeing etc. I have an extreme absence of fear when it comes to ghosts. I'm a weirdo. I think I'd be more afraid of Bigfoot than most "ghosts" or any haunted house. Hard to say for sure, since I've never encountered a Bigfoot. I just reason I would be frighten if I saw a bear in close quaters. So with Bigfoot, I probably would too.

Given what David describes, I would probably at least experience chills. For some reason I still get those when dealing with ghosts sometimes etc. Not really a fear though. I also get chills listening to music:)
 

David Biedny

Paranormal Adept
Sorry it's taken me so long to address this thread...

I don't think my facial illustration skills are up to the task of drawing the woman's face to my satisfaction, and to be honest, I think seeing it in that fashion would seriously creep me out.

I did indeed consider going up to her and saying something, I was trying to work up the nerve to do it, but the fear element was pretty strong. In retrospect, we were probably in a state of shock as well, given what we were seeing right in front of us. Hindsight is 20/20, being there and going through the experience was really intense - my memories are that I was almost too scared at the thought that she would become even more frightening if we tried to engage her in a more substantial interaction. We were close, really close to where she was sitting, and it was difficult to walk out and sit down close to her, believe me when I tell you that my instincts were screaming RUN, but my curiosity gave me some momentary courage and allowed me to get near her. Bill was essentially going wherever I was, he was concerned about getting closer, but was not about to let me go over to her alone.

I suppose that the wisdom of older age, as well as my current level of immersion in these topics, would allow me to behave differently today, given the same circumstances. Who knows.

dB
 

Mogwa

Skilled Investigator
Encounters of this sort only make sense to me in the context of the holographic model of reality. Observing a rough, unfinished simulacrum of an animated human could be consistent with a local electromagnetic event triggering a visual feedback of slightly degraded holographic data.
Of course I didn't experience what the witnesses did, but the concept of "ghosts" as spiritual entitities wandering about eternally doesn't seem to serve any purpose I can possibly conceive.
Maybe I'm just stupid.
 

Aaron LeClair

Paranormal Maven
David Biedny said:
Sorry it's taken me so long to address this thread...

I don't think my facial illustration skills are up to the task of drawing the woman's face to my satisfaction, and to be honest, I think seeing it in that fashion would seriously creep me out.

I did indeed consider going up to her and saying something, I was trying to work up the nerve to do it, but the fear element was pretty strong. In retrospect, we were probably in a state of shock as well, given what we were seeing right in front of us. Hindsight is 20/20, being there and going through the experience was really intense - my memories are that I was almost too scared at the thought that she would become even more frightening if we tried to engage her in a more substantial interaction. We were close, really close to where she was sitting, and it was difficult to walk out and sit down close to her, believe me when I tell you that my instincts were screaming RUN, but my curiosity gave me some momentary courage and allowed me to get near her. Bill was essentially going wherever I was, he was concerned about getting closer, but was not about to let me go over to her alone.

I suppose that the wisdom of older age, as well as my current level of immersion in these topics, would allow me to behave differently today, given the same circumstances. Who knows.

dB


So was this entity sitting on someone's porch, or was this some sort of public area? Was there anyone else around? What time of day was it?

I listened to the show, and even backed up and re listened to parts, but couldn't figure this out. If it was stated, sorry, I missed it for some reason.
 

AJ38

Paranormal Novice
I think they started out on Bill's porch when the figure was going past, then she went over to a public seated area, they then left the porch to go sit down opposite her.
 

David Biedny

Paranormal Adept
A.LeClair said:
So was this entity sitting on someone's porch, or was this some sort of public area? Was there anyone else around? What time of day was it?

I listened to the show, and even backed up and re listened to parts, but couldn't figure this out. If it was stated, sorry, I missed it for some reason.

As we said on the show, it happened right around the beginning of dusk, it was still mostly light out, but the walkway lights had just come on.

She sat at a table in a outdoor patio, which would be exactly in the center of the back courtyard of this trio of buildings. The specific table she was at is located under the trees in this image, look at the pathway that goes in between the two flanking buildings, from the bottom up, the location where that pathway meets the trees in the center of the courtyard is where we sat and watched her. There was no one else, the folks who typically sit outside there (including my grandmother), would really only do so towards the middle of the day to late afternoon, it was a little past that time.

dB
 
I

interestedINitall

Guest
Mogwa said:
Encounters of this sort only make sense to me in the context of the holographic model of reality. Observing a rough, unfinished simulacrum of an animated human could be consistent with a local electromagnetic event triggering a visual feedback of slightly degraded holographic data.
Of course I didn't experience what the witnesses did, but the concept of "ghosts" as spiritual entitities wandering about eternally doesn't seem to serve any purpose I can possibly conceive.
Maybe I'm just stupid.

But we're talking about the difference between ghosts and spirits. Conventional paranormal "lore" tells us that ghosts are just "loops" on the space/time continuum whereas a spirit is a sentient being who was, in most cases, at one time human and is now, for loss of a better word, trapped on this plain for one reason or another.

I don't mean to wax didactic but you seem to have ignored those two possibilities entirely.

The apparition David and Bill saw sounds like it's of the ghost variety. I can't explain the "fear" aspect (David's description sounds like the fear was actually emanating from the apparition instead of their just being frightened by it) but then we are here to hash that sort of thing out.
Any takers?

Wouldn't it be fascinating if somewhere (or should that be "somewhen") right now in the 70s a girl is telling her friends about the day that two odd guys in strange clothing stared at her while she sat and waited in a park?
 

thegreenman

Skilled Investigator
Hey guys sorry to reanimate a dead thread, but I just wanted to say I live a few miles from Hollywood Fl, in Sunrise. If you ever need an investigator to visit this site I'll give it a go.
 

Aaron LeClair

Paranormal Maven
thegreenman said:
Hey guys sorry to reanimate a dead thread, but I just wanted to say I live a few miles from Hollywood Fl, in Sunrise. If you ever need an investigator to visit this site I'll give it a go.

The only threads worth reanimating are dead ones:)
 

David Biedny

Paranormal Adept
Greenman, thanks for the offer, but the location is inside of the gated community called Carriage Hills (on Sterling Road), I don't think you'd have much success getting in.

dB
 

Ankhes

Skilled Investigator
Yeah, I know, I'm posting on a "dead" thread! But I am pretty new to the Paracast and after listening to the most recent show, I move backwards. I just heard this one last night. I have to say...wow! GREAT story! I am referring to David and Bill's soundless girl.
The detail you guys gave was fantastic; from the indistinct hands to the "not entirely there" face.

At first I thought she must be a ghost because of the mundane activity she was engaged in. But then you mentioned the fear and sadness aspect. I have no ideas about that. An emotion personified, one of you wondered. Maybe. Why not? It is as good a guess as any.

I have to wonder how you both managed to sit and stare at her for a full 10 minutes. That is quite a long time. It must have been difficult to maintain your nerve. You also mentioned her digging in a bag or purse of some kind. Did she ever "find" what she was looking for?

I don't really expect any replies to this post. I just wanted to mention my thoughts because I've just heard this episode. Usually I am exercising or doing housework when I listen to the Paracast. Not this time. I was listening before trying to drop off to sleep. Heh! I didn't sleep for quite some time after listening to THAT story!
 

Aaron LeClair

Paranormal Maven
Threads just go to sleep around here, rarely die.

David will answer your question if he comes across your post I bet.

Sadness is a common feeling sensed in ghost sightings.
 
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