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Gary McKinnon loses extradition appeal


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I have thoughts on the matter, however they are just as arbitrary as everyone elses so I will withold them. Ok, honestly, I spoke about them in other threads, so I'm a liar.

They have to make an example out of him. I think Bush needs his sentence. No, I don't buy his ufo story, however, he did nothing bad to gud people so... wtf should I care? If he could break in, then the dumbasses that are in charge of security need fired and he, well, needs to be bought a drink for showing it. Ok, ok.... maybe a ticket.

In short, I think he's full of shit and stupid. But the sentence is way too long. If being full of shit and stupid is a crime. Many judges, preachers, teachers, parents, and politicians need locked up for at least 200 life times. This dumb ass broke into NASA on dial up at a coffee shop? Maybe it's because NASA sucks balls while eating away tax money. Maybe they need a spanking.

But one might say, should you blame the brain dead for not locking their doors that get robbed instead of the robber? Well, yes in a way. He didn't break in after all. Hell, put both of them in jail together.
 
I dindt really know whether to comment on this one because it has just been debated and debated over and over for the last few months/years but here goes...
There are two real sides to the issue IMO. Firstly, the moral one in relation to handing him over to the U.S, and secondly the issue regarding is his forthcoming sentence to harsh.

People have argued that he commited the crime on Britsh soil so shouldnt be turned over, but others have argued that the actual crime was breaking into the computer which was on american soil.

I feel really sorry for the bloke because he is clearly just a loser who felt important by the fact that he could poke around in the superpowers national security. But at the end of the day, not only did he do the crime, but he also had the opportunity to do a lesser sentence and due to some bad decisions is now looking at 70 years, some were even talking off the death penalty.

Would the U.S be extraditing him back to us if the crime was commited the other way round? I very much doubt it, particularly on an election year. I know its cheesy but if you can;t do the time, dont do the crime.
With regards to whether he was looking for aliens, its all complete nonsense IMO. If he found all of this info he would have kept evidence and gone live with it straight away, i dont believe any of his story about not being able to, he could have taken a photo of his monitor if nothing else had worked for gods sake!

I wish he hadnt been extradited as he will fry in america but I do think he should do a fair amount of time for it.
 
Of course its inappropriate. Its completely ludicrous.

On the subject of the supposed photo of a cigar ship in space with domes on it, I think he completely made it up. I bet he felt gutted after apparently years of snooping and then getting caught. having nothing to show for it would just be too much so he invented some stuff.
 
Having the Naivety to think that you could Hack the Pentagons Computer system without the risk of a Hefty Prison sentence beggars belief !

Though I do feel sympathy for the man I feel that He does deserve to be Punished.

You just cant go around doing things like this.

Ideally I would have liked him to be sentenced between 2 and 6 years and that he could serve his time in a UK prison.
 
Live at the Witch Trials said:
Ideally I would have liked him to be sentenced between 2 and 6 years and that he could serve his time in a UK prison.
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I have absolutely no idea whether he did find any UFO stuff on the Pentagon computers but I certainly don't think he deserves to be thrown into an American jail for 70 years or whatever it is. A couple of years in a US jail, and then moved home to spend a couple more in a British jail would be enough in my mind.

But of course that will not happen. The powers that be in the US will give him a sentence that is totally disproportionate to the alleged crime, and we'll probably never hear from him again.

And as he has been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, which might help mitigate any sentence given to him ... in any sane country ... it probably won't in the jaw droppingly insane-state that is the mighty US of A at the moment.

[Oh and Aaron LeClair, since he has Asperger's Syndrome, there is the possibility that he is far from being stupid but has some difficulty in social situations (which I can attest to is something you would not to wish on your worst enemy. I have an anxiety disorder called "social phobia" ... and no it isn't a phobia ... but similar to a high functioning autism such as AS, and believe me it ain't fun), and has certain obsessive behaviours or traits. So it could be that he was obsessively interested in UFOs but went too far in his search for them.]
 
I am no doubt opening myself up to a thorough flaming, but I definately have the unpopular opinion....

I had not heard this story until now. I have no idea who the hell Gary McKinnon is, or what his motivations are. However, if this tool thought that breaking into the Pentagon's computer system would simply result in a misdemeanor slap-on-the-wrist if he was caught, then he is an idiot altogether and deserves whatever they give to him. How do we know that he wasn't trying to hack these systems to steal information for Moscow/Beijing, and that this "UFO story" is a lame coverup? Does he really think the U.S. Homeland Security, NSA, FBI, CIA and criminal justice departments will laugh this off in the post-9/11 world?

This case reminds me of the two hippies that tried to get on a plane post-9/11 with a few lengths of sawed off broom handles wired to an alarm clock in their luggage. When the luggage went through the x-ray machine and all the alarms went off, the couple said that this was proof that the Homeland Security officers were "idiots". I wonder who feels like the idiot now while sitting behind bars for 25-to-life on a domestic terrorism charge?

I mean seriously.... What the hell did any of these people think would happen? In my father's day, actions like this resulted in firing squads. They should consider themselves lucky.
 
According to the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7532713.stm):

"Their client is accused of hacking into the computers with the intention of intimidating the US government. It alleges that between February 2001 and March 2002, he hacked into dozens of US Army, Navy, Air Force, and Department of Defense computers, as well as 16 Nasa computers.

Prosecutors say he altered and deleted files at a naval air station not long after the 11 September attacks in 2001, rendering critical systems inoperable.

Mr McKinnon, who is unemployed, has admitted that he accessed computers in the US without authority.

But he has said he is merely a computer nerd, whose motives were harmless and innocent. He denies any attempts at sabotage.
He said he wanted to find evidence of UFOs he thought was being held by the US authorities, and to expose what he believed was a cover-up. . ."<!-- S IBOX --><!-- E IBOX -->



What does altering and deleting naval air station files have to do with finding UFO's? This guy had some beef with the US government and wanted to take it out on us with his cyber-attacks. F*ck him. If he thinks he's clever enough to hit the US at a sensitive time, in a sensitive area then he should be clever enough to realize his ass is gonna pay when we catch him.
 
DBTrek said:
What does altering and deleting naval air station files have to do with finding UFO's? This guy had some beef with the US government and wanted to take it out on us with his cyber-attacks. F*ck him. If he thinks he's clever enough to hit the US at a sensitive time, in a sensitive area then he should be clever enough to realize his ass is gonna pay when we catch him.
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He's ACCUSED of deletling those files, he claims he didn't do it, he was just poking around. Seems to me if he really was just poking around and you wanted to throw the book at him, you'd need something more concrete like say... trumped up charges of tampering with or deleting files? It would certainly make the case that he was dangerous and simultaneously deflate the whole UFO angle as just an "excuse" in the public eye.

I don't know whether McKinnon was really looking for UFO stuff or not. At this point it doesn't matter. He got cocky, rolled the dice one time too many and got caught. He deserves punshiment but REASONABLE punishment.

I do think it's interesting that it's the Navy and not the Air Force though. Time and again in the UFO lore the public goes after the Air Force for answers but on the "inside", it's the quasi-mythical Department of Naval Intelligence that seems to be at the top of the UFO food chain...
 
CapnG said:
He's ACCUSED of deletling those files, he claims he didn't do it, he was just poking around. Seems to me if he really was just poking around and you wanted to throw the book at him, you'd need something more concrete like say... trumped up charges of tampering with or deleting files? It would certainly make the case that he was dangerous and simultaneously deflate the whole UFO angle as just an "excuse" in the public eye.
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Obviously if he's acquitted of those charges in a court of law I won't be asking for him to be punished. I'm pointing out that he's not charged as being "some nerd who was too curious for his own good", he's charged with hacking and damaging US military systems.

What is a reasonable punishment for assaulting US military systems with intent to harm? This is something that should be included in this discussion, rather than the assumption that he didn't mean any harm because now that he's caught he says it is so.

If he is just an over-curious nerd then a light sentence is fine. I'd like to hear what people think he should face if he actually did what he's accused of.
 
I think that If It was proven that he did Maliciously intend to damage the United States Defense systems he should get a stiffer sentence like 20 years to life.

A message has to be sent out.

Cyber Attacks are now a new type of Warfare you only have to look at what the Russians have done to both Estonia and Georgia.

Its Spying and you can still get shot for It.
 
DBTrek said:
What is a reasonable punishment for assaulting US military systems with intent to harm? This is something that should be included in this discussion, rather than the assumption that he didn't mean any harm because now that he's caught he says it is so.
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Well the real question is how do you PROVE "intent to harm" versus "unlawful but harmless"?

If "intent to harm" can be proven then this is espionage, plain and simple and laws exist which should be prosecuted. It's fairly black-and-white. The issue of venue is a seperate matter and something which is much murkier.

Ultimately though this isn't about McKinnon, it's about what an absolute JOKE US military security was up to that point and about how, regardless of what they can prove, they WILL make an example of him to cover their own incompetence.
 
CapnG said:
Well the real question is how do you PROVE "intent to harm" versus "unlawful but harmless"?
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I think if files were deleted (files not created by Gary) then intent to harm is going to be fairly obvious to a jury. One would be hard pressed to explain why someone would break into someone elses network and start deleting files if the intent is something other than harming the target, or perhaps covering their own tracks. Once you start destroying other people's data you'v all but burned your hopes of calling yourself a white-hat hacker.

Ultimately though this isn't about McKinnon, it's about what an absolute JOKE US military security was up to that point and about how, regardless of what they can prove, they WILL make an example of him to cover their own incompetence.
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I don't think there's much the US Military can do to cover their incompetence in this matter. When one reads the articles related to this case it's obvious the parts of the US military have little if any idea how to conduct computer security. Right now, if they can prove their case against Gary, they'll need to make an example of him so others think twice before picking US military networks as their target. If the punishment causes decent people everywhere to cringe, then future 'hackers' might decide that corporations are better targets than the US military . . . which will be a win all around in my book.
:)
 
DBTrek said:
I think if files were deleted (files not created by Gary) then intent to harm is going to be fairly obvious to a jury. One would be hard pressed to explain why someone would break into someone elses network and start deleting files if the intent is something other than harming the target, or perhaps covering their own tracks.
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Well here comes the big question: How much do you trust the government to conduct an honest investigation? Like for instance, just suppose for a moment Gary's telling the truth, how hard do you think it would be for them to make it LOOK like he deleted files to prove their case against him?

And more importantly, why weren't those files backed up? Or did they even exist in the first place? If there really is a government within the government whose sole purpose is to deny/contain/obfuscate the UFO reality, one that is willing to threaten and perhaps even execute people who know too much and talk, falsifying records and sending a man to prison for life over a minor hacking offence wouldn't make them bat an eyelid...

DBTrek said:
If the punishment causes decent people everywhere to cringe, then future 'hackers' might decide that corporations are better targets than the US military . . . which will be a win all around in my book.:)
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Where do corporations end and government begin these days?
 
For the simple act of knowingly hacking into the system, especially after 911, the guy is a tard who deserves at least 10-15 years regardless of intent. The US defense grid is not the place to fuck around and everyone knows it.

If it's "proven" that he actually meant to damage/harm the databases by deleting files etc. then 50+ years is about right (in principle.) I don't think he should be extradited though. Let him serve his time in his country of origin so long as they have a deal worked out that would ensure time served.

The main problem I have is that sentence disparity between criminals is ridiculous here. Serving 70 years for hacking while first-degree murderers or serial pedophiles get out in a matter of a few years due to something like prison overcrowding hardly seems just. If a rapist gets out after 10 years, then McKinnon should get 10 months at most.
 
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