December 27, 2015 — Mike Clelland

[Gene Steinberg]

A most fascinating episode. Mike has always presented some compelling tales and possibilities of owls, synchronicity and more, and this was no exception.

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[jhh]

Interesting !

Regarding synchronicity, I was traveling into work this AM, (4 AM) and I had a small owl swoop down in front of my vehicle.

This occurred only once previously, in the mountains, in the early AM, many years ago. I had the impression during this event that the large owl was signaling to me that I was in her/his domain.

 

[wwkirk]

Mike is a very sophisticated guest.

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

Nobody asked him how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop.

 

[withoutlimits09]

Interesting, I wonder if he saw the movie the 4th Kind, which trailer featured owls morphing into gray aliens. I know many people like to discount the Hill abduction case because they say they watched a similar episode of the Twilight Zone, or other will note that Walton had some UFO books, or some cursory interest in the field. Perhaps, Clelland was subconsciously influenced by this trailer at some point and only then began to really pay attention to otherwise mundane things in an attempt to tie them all together. I realize the show is over, but I never heard of owls and UFOs until this movie trailer. I wonder if it had a similar effect on him.

 

[William Strathmann]

I've experienced a few spectacular incidents (for me anyway) of what is being called "synchronicity" which resulted from "asking the universe" (in Mr. Clelland's terminiology) so in principle I have no issue with Clelland's general premise.

But, as Ravensfee pointed out in the thread on Nancy du Tertre, Clelland, du Tertre, and Cutchins use anecdotal and / or subjective evidence, undiscriminated and unverified, as the basis for their work and books. Again, if this is clearly stated, then okay, caveat emptor, take it for what it's worth.

But a few questions are worth asking.

Clelland said his epiphany with owls and UFOs occurred after two successive camping trips in which three owls appeared both times. Clelland said that after the second episode a "screaming voice" in his head said there was a direct relationship with UFOs, so he started looking into owls in mythology and a link to UFOs.

IMHO it would have been advisable to have first conferred with a local conservationist to find out the "secular" side of the issue. Clelland said his two camping trips occurred at the end of summer, with three owls both times, which Clelland thought were the same three. He said his two camp locations were not the same place, but that they were not that far from each other. His description sounded like they would be quite close enough to be in the same foraging area for the winged owls. So the following scenario seems possible to me (though I make no claim since I have no expertise in this area): In spring a pair of owls had a chick that they raised through the summer. At the end of the summer, with the chick now able to fly, the three nocturnal predators went out at dusk to survey their hunting area. Clelland said they appeared at dusk, and on the first campout while he was cooking some food. I'd be interested to know if the owls can be attracted to the odor of food, and if that, or the fire, might have led them to fly over them later in the evening. Or perhaps the owls simply had not seen humans and were curious.

Clelland did not eliminate these reasonable, mundane possibilities from his story, and as a result his claim of "synchronicity" is unimpressive. Owls are living animals, just like sparrows or pidgeons. But owls seem more ethereally significant because they are seen more rarely, are nocturnal, and have a captivating face with stereoscopic eye placement like humans. Clelland may simply be reading in "UFO stuff" where none is demanded.

For the record, I grew up on a farm in MO and one of my earliest memories ever as a small child is of a parliament of more than a dozen owls sitting on trees and a fence near the house late in the day. I've got a "show me" mentality and I've never connected this to the paranormal. But I'm not necessarily against such an idea either.

On the other hand, ridiculous superstition is a real phenomenon among humans. I'd bet that if Clelland started a website about bad luck on Friday the 13th, he'd likewise be flooded with anecdotal incidents. He could be the Friday the 13th guy.

The other issue worth commenting about is Clelland's use of lines on flat maps. Flat maps do not accurately represent the curved earth. A straight line on flat paper is not actually "straight" on a globe, but a curve. I am not a cartographer, but it seems to me that making claims about flat maps and points on lines ought to be scrutinized.

Clelland said in a different lecture that he started slipping into some kind of madness after the two owl encounters, which is regrettable. Thankfully Clelland seems stable, if not overly zealous to find synchronicities in the mundane. I'm not that convinced.

Clelland's quote of Whitley Strieber at the beginning of his book also is troubling. How does Strieber know that grays are "profoundly surrendered to God." Why should Clelland uncritically accept Strieber's assertion and use it to support his "synchronicity" belief system. I know Gene and Chris that you guys have to be merciful to your guests, but that was a question I would have liked to have heard you ask Clelland (or Strieber if you ever have him as a guest again).

 

[mike clelland]

Reply to Without Limits:

Yes I saw *The Forth Kind* and I wrote about it in the book. I suspect the owl references in that film trace back to what had already been in the UFO literature at that point. It would have been script writers inspired by the owls in UFO books. Not the other way around.

Reply to William Strathman:

I am not sure what to say. The book is both a collection of stories and my own experiences. I feel like anyone could pick apart the accounts in the book and find a way to dismiss all of it. Not much I can say, this is a very subjective set of stories and experiences. My journey is mine and mine alone. I have witnesses for some of the events, but certainly not all of them.

As far as Whitley Strieber's comment early in the book, I prefaced his quote like this:

"I suspect he read the essay and just zipped out a rapid fire reply, that said, I’m impressed at the outright divinity of his comment."

I feel I addressed your doubts by writing that lead-in sentence.

I have met Whitley and consider him a close acquaintance I see him as very much a poet in the matters of the UFO contact experiences. I resonate strongly with what he has said over the years.

I feel the book stands on its own. I worked hard to say what I was feeling, and that also includes my own doubts and questions.

Mike Clelland

 

[ShannonH]

Good grief, William Strathman, you must be a blast at parties. I don't think Mike's intention is to "convince" you or anyone else of anything in particular. He's simply exploring a topic that fascinates him and others who have had experiences, postulating and exploring possibilities.

I'm new to the forum so maybe picking guests apart is your role here. I suppose I'll have to keep reading to see. Every forum has to have at least one of you, I suppose.

Regarding the show, I quite enjoyed it. I myself have had strange owl experiences, and I think it's worthwhile to toss ideas around with other people.

 

[michelleinAZ]

I was grateful for this show, which became an instance of synchronicity for me. My niece had just told me over Thanksgiving about her alien encounters, which were always foretold by the appearance of an owl outside her window. The owl would come, and inevitably so would the Greys. And now her son is telling her that owls are disturbing him at night. I sent her a link to the show. I hope it results in more dialogue for her. Thanks Mike!

 

[matthew1977]

My recent trip to Mexico had all kinds of owl decorations that seemed to coincide with wisdom. My purchase included an owl sitting on a skull that is resting on a book.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[William Strathmann]

Mr. Clelland I appreciate your interest in my comments about your book.

As I've said, I've experienced synchronicity, so in principle I have no argument on that count. But I've also known a fellow who made a reckless choice about such matters and it had a devastating psychotic effect on him, resulting in a medical discharge from the military and psychiatric treatment from his early twenties until he died decades later. John Keel reported on synchronicities and various aspects of the paranormal and he also descended into mental instability. On a related note, John Nash, the Nobel Prize winning mathematician of "Beautiful Mind" fame, descended into psychosis, and in at least two articles that I read about him several years ago he said that he listened to aliens who revealed mathematical discoveries to him, and who also were the main cause of his psychosis. So IMHO synchronicity and requests to the universe for signs are not merely a titillating "party topic" and such things are not to be treated without extreme caution, care and rigor. IMHO people who experiment with such things are in danger of victimization by forces in a real and hazardous realm.

When you report synchronicities but choose not to investigate for mundane explanations, then IMHO you are not providing a beneficial contribution to knowledge about the paranormal, but you are contributing to an atmosphere that entices unwary people to explore things that might endanger them.

As far as Strieber goes, I have no doubt that he's experienced strange, traumatic things, and in IMHO, after looking at the novels he wrote prior to his initial experience, it is not surprising. According to the wiki, Strieber began his career as a novelist with the horror novels The Wolfen (1978) and The Hunger (1981), followed by the less successful horror novels Black Magic (1982) and The Night Church (1983). Following these paranormal / supernatural novels that Strieber surely invested a lot of his conscious life to, he had his traumatic experiences. A mere coincidence? I do not think so. And now he is a paranormal prophet who says "grays are profoundly submitted to God"? That's a highly reckless statement and yet it serves as one of the opening shots you provide for evidence of your synchronicitious worldview.

So I do not see your book providing the necessary rigor or caution for relating to this realm, even though you are an articulate fellow who could write such a book. By your own testimony, synchronicities helped lead to your own descent into instability, which I am sincerely sorry happened to you.

Best wishes.

 

[Burnt State]

Making Meaning with Symbols.

After listening to the episode the night before I went walking downtown and while waiting at a crosswalk I turned to look at a display window which prominently featured an owl painting in its centre, nothing seasonal, but a poignant reminder of Mike's show and of William Strathman's thoughtful commentary. Looking for signs in the landscape is something humans have been doing since time started as we grunted at the fall into darkness each night and sung songs to the rise of every sun.

As part of each individual's puzzling out of life's perplexing mysteries we use symbolic occurrences to help make meaning out of our lives. This process may descend into individual psychotic breaks as outlined above, or may become special moments that help to fill our spiritual voids. The holy mountain beckons to us always, and if the meanings we make are accessible enough to others we can craft cults or religions for the masses to follow. Contactees who broadcast such messages, such as Strieber, Bo & Peep of Heaven's Gate or Mike Clelland, introduce powerful ways of understanding reality through symbols. But what may make their messages dangerous or informative depends on how you give a hoot.

Are aspects of the paranormal cult-like in their beliefs and consequently dangerous? This is entirely about the strength of will of an individual and how they are able to discern what is worth believing in, acting on or dismissing as simply a curiosity. Is it the messenger, the message or the weak will of the believer that is problematic? This is probably best measured on a case by case basis. Mike says he wrote his book to help him understand his own life experiencers better. In doing so he has collected similar stories and has knowingly or unknowingly introduced a new cultural meme, mythos or folklore into human dialogues regarding the relationship between owls and the abductee experience.

I think all dialogues around abductee experiences need much care and concern because of their relationship to human trauma. These stories outline our deep desire to connect dots of memory in our lives, even if it means we are drawing straight lines on curved surfaces. Sometimes the desire to make meaning overrides our critical thinking. Sometimes our acts of creativity create new personal paradigms of belief, hence VALIS. If you listen to Mike's show, Hidden Experience, you know that he is a seeker. He has also made some deep personal decisions about how he is making meaning in his own life. What others do with this is their business, but I understand and appreciate exactly what the above poster is warning about.

Addendum: "Philip K. Dick claimed that VALIS used "disinhibiting stimuli" to communicate, using symbols to trigger recollection of intrinsic knowledge through the loss of amnesia, achieving gnosis. Drawing directly from Platonism and Gnosticism, Dick wrote in his Exegesis: "We appear to be memory coils (DNA carriers capable of experience) in a computer-like thinking system which, although we have correctly recorded and stored thousands of years of experiential information, and each of us possesses somewhat different deposits from all the other life forms, there is a malfunction—a failure—of memory retrieval."

If one chooses to agree with such modes of thinking then psychotic breaks, cult like behaviour or the path of the artist may be opened up to you. Most of life is a failure of memory retrieval; however, what we choose to substitute for those lost moments can be highly suspect and even dangerous, or form the basis of your next short story.

 

[mike clelland]

I have tried, both in my written work as well as my interviews, to be clear when I feel something and when I know something. There is a difference and I am very cautious on how I phrase things. If I have only a sense (unlike a true knowing) I will say so. When I describe the odd events surrounding owls and UFOs I know full well I have skated out onto the thinnest ice. But for me, that is where the most fascinating ideas will emerge - on the far reaches of speculation. That said, I try hard to make it clear that I don't have answers, and that I am seduced by the questions that arise on the periphery.

I know there is a connection between owls and UFOs. Yes, that is a bold statement. I don't know the what, why or how of it, but I know that there is a connection. Beyond that, it is all speculation.

Mike Clelland

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Good grief, William Strathman, you must be a blast at parties. I don't think Mike's intention is to "convince" you or anyone else of anything in particular. He's simply exploring a topic that fascinates him and others who have had experiences, postulating and exploring possibilities.

I'm new to the forum so maybe picking guests apart is your role here. I suppose I'll have to keep reading to see. Every forum has to have at least one of you, I suppose.

Regarding the show, I quite enjoyed it. I myself have had strange owl experiences, and I think it's worthwhile to toss ideas around with other people.

Since you are a new subscriber, I would like to offer you some advice. First, don't use cliche's like "You must be a blast at parties". Secondly, your post seems to simply be putting down another person for posting his quite intelligent thoughtful doubts about the guest Mike Clelland. This forum is not a place simply for fan boys and girls to post adoring accolades for the guests. This forum is the appropriate place to discuss doubts and criticisms of any guest and any theory. I believe that the guest Mike Clelland is a very intelligent man and can handle himself in a verbal discussion. Please do not come anew to the forum and attempt to shut down such dialogue, especially using lame sayings (as I pointed out). Since Strathman comes across as a very witty intelligent guy, he probably is great fun at a party. People who come on the forum and annoint themselves the role of administrator, telling everyone else what they have a right to post or not, usually do not last long.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

My real name is Will. I have a modest presence in Mike Clelland's book (Page 293). I just wanted to say that I merely reported my actual abduction experiences that often were preceded or followed by the presence of owls on the roof. [All such experiences stopped in the late 90's]. I offer no conjecture about any of this, other than believing that the owls were real owls, not greys in disguise or some sort of screen memory. I admit that Mike took me at my word, and I could have made up anything I wanted. However, my experiences seemed to fit into a pattern Mike has discerned from others. I do not know how Mike would go about validating the stories he received from hundreds of people all over the globe. Should he have paid each person to have a lie detector test? I think he would need a government grant to cover that expense. Could he visit each person face to face? That again would take a great deal of money and time on his part. Even then, a truly skillful person can lie very convincingly, even faking the appropriate emotions of fear or terror or wonder. Therefore, I do not know what proof Mike could have gathered, unless he simply based each person's veracity by their career and financial status (which I found many early UFO researchers seemed to do, implying that if someone had a responsible job in the community, they must be truthful). I think Mike presented case stories and theories in a very organized fashion. It is up to the reader to decide how they feel about the book. But I really don't know how he could have concretely validated each story (except by putting each story into a larger context - did the story coincide with other stories across the globe?).

 

[Spectre73]

Been on "Catch up" on the shows, so not finished this episode yet.

I love listening to Mike Clelland. I find his voice very relaxing!

 

[Spectre73]

Funny - Woody Allen's "Sleeper" (brill film) is exactly what I was thinking of when he was recounting his "under the stars" sighting