Created Equal

[Aaron LeClair]

Remember, just cause I post something, doesn't mean I endorse it. I just thought this article would evoke some interesting discussion. It's on genes, race, and IQ.

http://rense.com/general79/dut.htm

 

[Mogwa]

Jews number one! Jews number one!
Well, we're tied for first anyway.
Curse those foul Hong Kongers.
Meh.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Meaningless crap!

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Any idea who this William Saletan is? Never heard of em.

Hitler thought Jews were dumb. Wonder what his iq was.... 4?

 

[BrandonD]

Meaningless crap!

My thoughts exactly. It is rather odd how the IQ curve generally tends to follow social class and affluence eh? Jews and asians at the top, blacks and hispanics at the bottom... Wow, maybe we're RIGHT in treating them as lower citizens.

IQ is not a natural law, it is not an objective measurement like temperature or volume. It is an entirely subjective man-made test.

 

[DBTrek]

I don't find the suggestion all that outlandish. We can see animal species adapting and excelling in different ways based on environmental factors. Humans are just another animal.

Trying to equate an IQ test as a substitute for 'intelligence' on the other hand seems a little haphazard. It is (as Brandon said) a man-made test. While the test may focus on some certain aspects of cognative function it is far from an all encompassing 'intelligence' test.

Still, if one can accept that different animals evolve in a manner most advantageous for their environment I see no reason not to include humans along with the rest of the animal kingdom.

 

[Brian Now]

...I see no reason not to include humans along with the rest of the animal kingdom.

I get your point DB and pretty much agree with you, but I think there is a difference between human races and various species of animals. If I am not mistaken, I thought that the genetic and physiological variations in humans is nothing compared to what you see in the rest of the animal kingdom, maybe due to a prehistoric bottleneck in the gene pool if I recall. I guess our real variations died out (neaderthals and cro magnons).

Still, all this uniformity doesn't necessarily preclude differences in cognitive ability I suppose, but I am not convinced yet.

 

[DBTrek]

Still, all this uniformity doesn't necessarily preclude differences in cognitive ability I suppose, but I am not convinced yet.

I'm not convinced there are significant differences either. I just try to maintain an open mind about it. Unfortunately the study of differences in human ethnicity is socially taboo. Suggesting science take a look at it invites hostility from people who immediately equate it with eugenics (and the third reich). I'm interested in the truth, whether it's comfortable or not. If I'm dumber than the average asian, that's just the way it is . I'd rather know than cover my ears and retreat in to denial.

. . . but I want proof. Not a bunch of statistics based on an IQ test.

 

[BrandonD]

. . . but I want proof. Not a bunch of statistics based on an IQ test.

I think one way to start would be to establish whether some particular portion of the brain is actually generally larger in a certain racial type. That would lend more weight to a physical basis of intellectual "superiority". Even then, though that might imply greater intelligence it still does not prove it, since both elephants and whales have larger brains than we do.

 

[Don Keyhoe-Ti]

I'm not convinced there are significant differences either. I just try to maintain an open mind about it. Unfortunately the study of differences in human ethnicity is socially taboo. Suggesting science take a look at it invites hostility from people who immediately equate it with eugenics (and the third reich). I'm interested in the truth, whether it's comfortable or not. If I'm dumber than the average asian, that's just the way it is . I'd rather know than cover my ears and retreat in to denial.

. . . but I want proof. Not a bunch of statistics based on an IQ test.

I see it this way too, but this is a topic that only goes downhill from my online experience. But you know, I personally can cope with the idea, (unproven AFAIK) that some races have different good and bad qualities from other races. Daily observation would suggest it I reckon, it's just that often people use this as an excuse to be assholes. Imho it's ok, as an empiricist, to notice patterns amongst people, whether that be based on race, money, hairstyle, taste in music, even what shoes they wear etc etc etc! I mean, when we're searching for truth - insignificant or profound - all we've got to go with is inductive generalisation. I guess this tends into prejudice when you pre-judge the next individual with characteristic xyz and assume they must be like all the other xyz'ers out there. But it's all a slippery slope that every sentient being naturally rollerskates along everyday.

But you know, god's gifts are distributed unevenly within any given group, and within any racial group, why shouldn't they also be distributed unevenly between racial groups? And really who's to say which talents are ultimately the most worthwhile?

I mean, I'm a mediocre white guy with an above average IQ, but who's to say life wouldn't be better if instead I was born a super athletic guy with "natural rhythm" and an enormous cock?

Wel, we'll never know, because I'm just not super athletic and I don't have natural rhythm. :

 

[Brian Now]

Even then, though that might imply greater intelligence it still does not prove it, since both elephants and whales have larger brains than we do.

Right it doesn't. Einstein's brain was probably the same size as mine and there's quite a lot of difference between us (if you saw me try to "solve for x" you would understand :frown: )
Some professor in college said the difference in intelligence between the human brain and an animal brain of similar is the amount of convolutions. But seems like there was research on Einstein's brain that showed he had denser packed neurons than most. Gee, I really should have looked this up.

 

[Poi]

Bwaaaa! (to DonK)

Story time. A black friend who used to work for me was always broke. When she got ahead with a little cash, she called in sick (sometimes she was, but mostly she wasn't.) After knowing her for years, I realized what she was doing was part of a conditioned response to her belief that she would always be challenged economically. That's all she'd ever known and was comfortable with it. It's my belief that she wasn't at all comfortable with having money. Trouble with all that is, she's one of the smartest people I know.

IQ tests fail to consider conditioned responses to life in general. We all have them and I'm pretty sure they color or even mask intelligence.