• NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!

Consciousness and the Paranormal — Part 9

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Neuroskeptic article begins with these two paragraphs:

"A new article posted on preprint site bioRxiv has generated a lot of interest among neuroscientists on Twitter. The article reports the existence of ‘functional connectivity‘ between surgically disconnected distant brain regions using fMRI, something that in theory shouldn’t be possible.

This is big news, if true, because it suggests that fMRI functional connectivity isn’t entirely a reflection of actual signalling between brain areas. Rather, something else must be able to produce connectivity – most likely it has to do with the constriction of blood vessels in the brain. Whatever the source of the non-neuronal connectivity is, it raises the worrying possibility that it might be contaminating fMRI studies."

A helpful development, however much it might/will be resisted since it undermines the major presupposition of 'brain science'.

Link to the paper itself:

http://biorxiv.org/content/biorxiv/early/2017/04/15/127571.full.pdf

A field based theory of consciousness could account for the phenomenon but I didn't see any reference to the states of consciousness of the patients during the experiments or to measurements of brain wave activity. So it would seem there needs to be more study done that includes those factors ( and the blood vessel reactions ) as part of the data set.
 
A field based theory of consciousness could account for the phenomenon but I didn't see any reference to the states of consciousness of the patients during the experiments or to measurements of brain wave activity. So it would seem there needs to be more study done that includes those factors ( and the blood vessel reactions ) as part of the data set.

Right. Some kind(s) of field phenomena must be part of/contribute to the integration of brain functions that yield what Barr called "a global workspace" in the brain, where thousands of processes must be carrried out at once. Pity, the cognitive neuroscientists and those in the public who parrot their reductive presuppositions and terminology will have to give up the notion that everything we sense and feel (physically and emotionally), attend to and intend, think, and do -- including everything we see, hear, taste, smell, and otherwise appreciate esthetically/aesthetically in the environing world -- is 'hard-wired' in the brain. Let's take a moment to rest in our release from that questionable dogma. {Sigh. . . . now doesn't that feel better?}

The authors of the biorxiv paper I linked recognize in section 4 of their paper that their research discovery of evident brain functionality in the absence of/following the severing of neural connectivity in the surgically altered brains of patients in the study is just the beginning of further research into the question of what this means -- of what else might be involved in brain-mind processing and must now be investigated as well. A breath of fresh air.

What are your responses to the two Panksepp papers I linked?
 
Last edited:
Also interesting re fMRI:

https://www.nature.com/news/2009/090121/full/news.2009.48.html

Brain imaging measures more than we think
Anticipatory brain mechanism may be complicating MRI studies.

Kerri Smith

fmri.jpg
Blood vessel activation in the brain. The dark central area is the response to a visual stimulus.Y. Sirotin & A. Das

Popular brain-imaging techniques may be painting a misleading picture of brain activity, according to a new study.

Scientists using techniques such as functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) make the assumption that blood flow into a particular brain region is directly linked to the amount of activity in the cells of that region. This is because active cells need more oxygen, and blood ferries it to them.

But a study by Aniruddha Das and Yevgeniy Sirotin at Columbia University in New York shows that this is not necessarily the case. The two found an increase in blood flow in the visual cortices of monkeys when the animals looked at a dot on a screen — but also when they were simply expecting the dot to appear1.

"It could imply a hitherto unknown mechanism of brain arousal or preparedness," says Das. "That makes us pause in thinking about how fMRI signals have to be interpreted."

Unexpected anticipation
Das and Sirotin used an optical-imaging technique to measure the amount of oxygen in the blood and the rate of blood flow separately in the monkeys' visual cortices. They then compared the results with measurements of brain activity taken with electrodes inserted in the same area.

The electrode and blood measurements coincided when the monkeys were looking at a dot, as expected. But when they were expecting to see something, and nothing actually appeared, there was an increase in the flow of oxygen-rich blood to the visual cortex without a corresponding electrode signal.

"What caught us completely by surprise was that there was this huge anticipatory signal which appeared prior to us showing the visual stimulus," Das says. The purpose of this could be to supply cortical arteries in the visual region in time for the upcoming stimulus, he says.

The findings suggest that scientists who use fMRI may need to interpret their data differently, concludes neuroscientist David Leopold at the National Institute of Mental Health in Bethesda, Maryland2. Most fMRI experiments with human subjects involve presenting visual stimuli at intervals and rely on lining up the blood flow in time with the stimuli, Leopold explains. But, he adds, the mismatch between neural activity and blood flow demonstrated in the paper is "extreme".

It should be possible to design experiments that are not confounded by the extra signal, says Das. But, he warns, "what our work suggests is that what people interpret as attention in functional MRI may not reflect local changes in neuronal activity."



The only commentator on the article wrote: "I think the study analyzed cognitive control."

I'm not sure what this commentator means by 'cognitive control'. I think the study suggests what I will call 'operative attentional consciousness' in the monkey that is distinct from neuronal signals in its brain. It seems that the monkeys in the described experiment are subjected by the experimenters to a repetitive experience, placed before monitors that present them with a succession of experiences of seeing a light go on in the monitor followed by a period of its absence. After this experience of seeing the light appearing from time to time, the monkeys expect to see the light reappearing. They have become interested in the light and have entered into a state of anticipation of the next appearance of the light and thus remain attentive to the monitor. I've done a bit of searching on theories of the relationship of consciousness and attention and found this book review in the Notre Dame Philosophy Reviews site:

Consciousness, Attention, and Conscious Attention
Carlos Montemayor and Harry Haroutioun Haladjian, Consciousness, Attention, and Conscious Attention, MIT Press, 2015, 280 pp., $40 (hbk), ISBN 9780262028974.

Reviewed by Christopher Mole, University of British Columbia

Consciousness, Attention, and Conscious Attention // Reviews // Notre Dame Philosophical Reviews // University of Notre Dame

I think Jaak Panksepp would have liked the experiment discussed above. I like what the experiment suggests about the monkeys' conscious engagement with their environment in the lab where the experiment took place, how they began to anticipate the light's reappearing, how they actively looked for it to reappear (thus the response of increased blood flow in the optical nerves when they remembered it and anticipated it). That attentiveness comes close to becoming what we otherwise call intentionality. It shows the moment by moment attachment of conscious animals to their surroundings [when awake], and how paying attention unfolds into intentionality in their looking for the item of interest to reappear. Anyone see what I mean?

Anyway we can learn a bit more about the problem of the relationship of attention and consciousness from the linked book review.
 
Last edited:
I'm searching for papers or books that make progress in understanding the nature of consciousness in integrative terms. Here is the abstract of one such paper that sounds interesting, which I'm hoping to find in its entirety online:

Naomi Eilan, Perceptual Intentionality. Attention and Consciousness

Published online: 01 January 2010

Abstract: A representative expression of current thinking on the ‘problem of consciousness’ runs as follows. There is one, impenetrably hard problem; and a host of soluble, and in this sense easy problems. The hard problem is: how could a physical system yield subjective states? How could there be something it is like to be a physical system? This problem corresponds to a concept of consciousness invariably labelled ‘phenomenal consciousness’. It is here, with respect to phenomenal consciousness, that we encounter an ‘explanatory gap’, where it is this gap that makes the problem so hard. Nothing we can say about the workings of a physical system could begin to explain the existence and nature of subjective, phenomenal feel.

Perceptual Intentionality. Attention and Consciousness | Royal Institute of Philosophy Supplements | Cambridge Core



We should probably simultaneously review the following influential paper by Ned Block laying out the ostensible difference [or perhaps even disjunction] between what he interprets as 'phenomenal consciousness' vis a vis 'access consciousness'.

ON A CONFUSION ABOUT A FUNCTION OF CONSCIOUSNESS
 
Still pursuing the relationship of consciousness and attention/intentionality . . .

The paper linked below might be helpful in our recognition of the directness of phenomenal experience -- whether that experience is absorbed consciously or subconsciously -- by all living species similar to ourselves. We need to confront what is at the source of the 'explanatory gap' as characterized, i.e., posed as a question, by Chalmers: an intellectual gap generated by our long-embedded categorical approaches to consciousness, expressed in this sentence early in the linked Kurt Ludwig paper concerning Charles Siewert's The Significance of Consciousness:

"Let me first give some reasons to think we should say that all conscious mental states are <represented> by their subjects as states they have, and then consider some of the difficulties which Siewert raises for this thesis."

I haven't yet read beyond that sentence in Ludwig's paper or read Siewert's book, but I want to foreground again how the concept of 'representation' has misled us about the nature of consciousness again and again in the history of Philosophy of Mind and Consciousness Studies, and will do so as long as it persists in presuppositional categorical approaches to the mysterious, evidently holistic, territory of conscious experience.

The point is that consciousness is evidently in itself noncategorical, does not require logic or semantics in order to achieve self-awareness in and through its lived experience in the world extending beyond the 'self'. What's already achieved by protoconsciousness and consciousness in states of 'awareness' and 'affectivity' as identified by Panksepp is an implicit sensing/understanding of one's experience as one's own, an understanding that arises in the presentation -- not in a neural re-presentation or a re-presentation reliant on 'higher order thinking' -- of that which is already experienced-in-relation-to-oneself as it is opened up, discovered, in perception.

http://journalpsyche.org/files/0xaaa4.pdf
 
Last edited:
A longer extract from the Ludwig paper in dialogue with Siewert's book:

"2.2. Arguments Against the Necessity of Self-Reflection for Phenomenal Consciousness

Siewert presents a number of arguments against the necessity of self-reflection for phenomenal consciousness. I want to examine these to see whether they are successful. If they are, then the arguments I have given above must be flawed in some way. But I am not so far convinced that Siewert's arguments are successful.

(a) Argument by example. The first argument is that we can know that some conscious mental states are not the object of any representation simply by reflecting on many of the conscious mental states we do have. There is a certain general difficulty, I think, in making this case, but let me first explain what sorts of examples Siewert has in mind. The first has to do with "silent speech":

"I do a lot of silent talking to myself in the course of an ordinary day. But often, even typically, when I do this, I am not attending to, or taking note of, this occurrence as it happens. Usually I am paying attention to, and consciously thinking about, only whatever it is that I am silently talking about. Though, for example, I am speaking silently to myself as I read something, I am not (consciously) thinking about my silent speech all the while- -I am too busy concentrating now on what I am reading about. This is not to say I do not know that I am thinking, as it is happening--I do know. But the kind of knowledge I then have of my own experience does not require that a thought of some sort occur to me about my experience as I am having it. (p. 198)

The second has to do with ordinary perceptual experience in everyday life:

"... consider the sort of perception we have when engaged in activity that requires more coordinated movement than what is sufficient merely to perceive--the sort one typically has of one's own body and surroundings when going somewhere, whether by walking, riding, driving, or swimming; when grasping and moving things, whether in, say, building, cleaning, repairing, or cooking something; and in the course of all manner of movement involved in human contact--shaking hands, conversing, dancing, punching someone in the eye. It would be an odd sort of life, difficult to imagine, in which one without pause consciously thought about one's perceiving as one went about such activities. Often, if one is doing these things, and one is, properly speaking, consciously thinking about anything at all, it is about that which one perceives, not about one's perceiving--or else about something entirely apart from either of these." (p. 199)

I think these examples show something, but I don't think that they show that conscious mental states are not <represented by> {? or try instead: 'understood by'} their subjects as possessed by them at the time they have them. For we need to distinguish between consciously thinking about a concurrent thought or experience, where this signals a kind of direction of attention to the thought or experience, and representing oneself at the time as having the experience. {Do we? Or do we mislead ourselves about the integrative nature of consciousness in thinking so?} The latter can occur without the represented experience being one which one is attending to or taking note of, for these activities are quite special.

That this is so is shown by the fact that we can tell after the fact that some of our conscious mental states were not ones we were attending to. It is precisely because we can recall having them and recall at the time not having attended to them that we know not all of our conscious mental states are attended to (and thought about in that sense) at the time we have them. But to recall having had them we had to know that we had them at the time. And to know that we had them at the time, we had to be in possession of a representation of our having them at the time. {Disagree: we can sense/know/understand experiences as our own without 'representing' them as conscious reflections.} Thus, these examples are not examples of conscious mental states that we were not concurrently representing ourselves as having. {Nay. score one for Siewert.}

Indeed, in the first passage above, Siewert says explicitly that when we engage in "silent speech" we do know that we do so, even if we are not attending to it (and in that sense entertaining a conscious thought about it). This must be so to produce {recall?} examples of experiences we did not attend to. And this shows that there is a general difficulty with the strategy of showing from the first person perspective that some conscious mental states are not accompanied by any representing of the subject as having them. For if there were any such states, we would not know from the first person perspective that we had had them, and so could not thereby cite them as examples of the relevant sort."

It seems that Ludwig is proposing that consciousness must take both a 'first-person' experiential position in our lived being and also a 'third-person' position on the fact of our having experience. I think the case is rather that, as MP describes experiential consciousness, we are always conscious of 'something' and also nonpositionally conscious of ourselves as having our experiences. I also think that concerning subconsciously registered experiences we do not have nonpositional consciousness or awareness of them as they occour (though they nevertheless influence what we feel and think).

As Stevens expressed it, ". . . we reason of these things / With later reason."

I hope someone besides me turns up here soon to respond or react, or even just say 'this is boring.' ;)
 
Last edited:
Dan Zahavi, Intentionality and Phenomenality:
A Phenomenological Take on the Hard Problem

"In his book The Conscious Mind David Chalmers introduced a by now familiar distinction between the hard problem and the easy problems of consciousness. The easy problems are those concerned with the question of how the mind can process information, react to environmental stimuli, and exhibit such capacities as discrimination, categorization, and introspection (Chalmers, 1996, 4, 1995, 200). All of these abilities are impressive, but they are, according to Chalmers, not metaphysically baffling, since they can all be tackled by means of the standard repertoire of cognitive science and explained in terms of computational or neural mechanisms. This task might still be difficult, but it is within reach. In contrast, the hard problem—also known as the problem of consciousness (Chalmers, 1995, 201)—is the problem of explaining why mental states have phenomenal or experiential qualities. Why is it like something to ‘taste coffee’, to ‘touch an ice cube’, to ‘look at a sunset’ etc.? Why does it feel the way it does? Why does it at all feel like anything?

Chalmers’s distinction confronts us with a version of the so-called ‘explanatory gap’. On the one hand, we have certain cognitive functions, which can apparently be explained reductively, and on the other hand, we have a number of experiential qualities, which seem to resist this reductive explanation. We can establish that a certain function is accompanied by a certain experience, but we have no idea why that happens, and regardless of how closely we scrutinize the neural mechanisms we don’t seem to be getting any closer at an answer.

In his book, Chalmers also distinguished two concepts of mind: a phenomenal concept and a psychological concept. The first captures the conscious aspect of mind: Mind is understood in terms of conscious experience. The second concept understands mind in functional terms as the causal or explanatory basis for behavior. According to the phenomenal concept, a state is mental if it ‘feels’ a certain way; according to the psychological concept, a state is mental if it plays an appropriate causal role. The first concept characterizes mind by the way it feels, the second by what it does (Chalmers, 1996, 11-12), and according to Chalmers it is the first concept that is troublesome and which resists standard attempts at explanation. 1

In a later article from 1997 Chalmers seems to have modified, or at least clarified, his position slightly. He now concedes that such notions as attention, memory, intentionality etc. contain both easy and hard aspects (Chalmers, 1997, 10). A full and comprehensive understanding of e.g. intentionality would consequently entail solving the hard problem, or to put it differently, an analysis of thoughts, beliefs, categorization etc. that ignored the experiential side would merely be an analysis of what could be called pseudo-thoughts or pseudo-beliefs (Chalmers, 1997, 20). This clarification fits well with an observation that Chalmers made already in The Conscious Mind, namely, that one could operate with a deflationary and an inflationary concept of belief, respectively. Whereas the first concept is a purely psychological (functional) concept that does not involve any reference to conscious experience, the second concept entails that conscious experience is required for true 2 intentionality (Chalmers, 1996, 20). In 1997, Chalmers admits that he is torn on the issue, and that he over time has become increasingly sympathetic to the second concept, and to the idea that consciousness is the primary source of meaning, so that intentional content may in fact be grounded in phenomenal content, but he thinks the matter needs further examination (Chalmers, 1997, 21).

I welcome this clarification, but I also find it slightly surprising that Chalmers is prepared to concede this much. As far as I can see, the very distinction between the easy problems and the hard problem of consciousness becomes questionable the moment one opts for the inflationary concept. Given this concept, it seems natural to conclude that there are in fact no easy problems of consciousness. The truly easy problems are all problems about pseudo-thoughts etc., that is, about non-conscious information processing, but a treatment of these issues should not be confused with an explanation of the kind of conscious intentionality that we encounter in human beings. In other words, we will not understand how human beings consciously intend, discriminate, categorize, react, report, and introspect etc. until we understand the role of subjective experience in those processes (cf. Hodgson, 1996).

Chalmers’s discussion of the hard problem has identified and labeled an aspect of consciousness that cannot be ignored. However, his way of defining and distinguishing the hard problem from the easy problems seems in many ways indebted to the very reductionism that he is out to oppose. If one thinks that cognition and intentionality is basically a matter of information processing and causal co-variation that could in principle just as well go on in a mindless computer–or to use Chalmers’ own favored example, in an experienceless zombie– then one is left with the impression that all that is really distinctive about consciousness is its qualitative or phenomenal aspect. But this seems to suggest that with the exception of some evanescent qualia everything about consciousness including intentionality can be explained in reductive (computational or neural) terms; and in this case, epiphenomenalism threatens.

To put it differently, Chalmers’s distinction between the hard and the easy problems of consciousness shares a common feature with many other recent analytical attempts to defend consciousness against the onslaught of reductionism: They all grant far too much to the other side. Reductionism has typicallyproceeded with a classical divide and rule strategy. There are basically two sides to consciousness: Intentionality and phenomenality. We don’t currently know how to reduce the latter aspect, so let us separate the two sides, and concentrate on the first. If we then succeed in explaining intentionality reductively, the aspect of phenomenality cannot be all that significant. Many non-reductive materialists have uncritically adopted the very same strategy. They have marginalized subjectivity by identifying it with epiphenomenal qualia and have then claimed that it is this aspect which eludes reductionism.

But is this partition really acceptable, are we really dealing with two separate problems, or are experience and intentionality on the contrary intimately connected? Is it really possible to investigate intentionality properly without taking experience, the first-person perspective, semantics, etc., into account? And vice versa, is it possible to understand the nature of subjectivity and experience if we ignore intentionality. Or do we not then run the risk of reinstating a Cartesian subject-world dualism that ignores everything captured by the phrase “being-in-the-world”? In the following, I wish to consider some arguments in favor of opposing the separation. I will try to supply some answers to the three following questions:

1. What forms of intentionality possess phenomenal features?
2. Do all experiences possess intentional features?
3. If the intentional and the phenomenal go hand in hand, is the connection then contingent or essential?

All of the three questions call for quite substantial analyses. All I can do in the following is to provide some preliminary reflections; reflections that will incidentally suggest that analytical philosophy in its dealing with these questions might profit from looking at some of the resources found in continental phenomenology. Why? Because many of the problems and questions that analytical philosophy of mind are currently facing are problems and questions that phenomenologists have been struggling with for more than a century. Drawing on their results would not only help avoiding unnecessary repetitions, it might also bring the contemporary debate to a higher level of sophistication.

1. Is there a ‘what it is like’ to intentional consciousness?

It is relatively uncontroversial that there is a certain (phenomenal) quality of ‘what it is like’ or what it ‘feels’ like to have perceptual experiences, desires, feelings, and moods. There is something it is like to taste an omelette, to touch an ice cube, to crave chocolate, to have stage fright, to feel envious, nervous, depressed, or happy. However, is it really acceptable to limit the phenomenal dimension of experience to sensory or emotional states alone? Is there nothing it is like simply to think of (rather than perceive) a green apple? And what about abstract beliefs, is there nothing it is like to believe that the square root of 9 ‘ 3? Many contemporary philosophers have denied that beliefs are inherently phenomenal (cf. Tye, 1995, 138, Jacob, 1998, O’Shaughnessy, 2000, 39, 41). I think they are mistaken.

Back in the Logical Investigations (1900-01) Husserl argued that conscious thoughts have experiential qualities, and that episodes of conscious thoughts are experiential episodes. In arguing for this claim, Husserl drew some distinctions that I think are of relevance in this context. According to Husserl, every intentional experience possesses two different, but inseparable moments. Every intentional experience is an experience of a specific type, be it an experience of judging, hoping, desiring, regretting, remembering, affirming, doubting, wondering, fearing, etc. Husserl called this aspect of the experience, the intentional quality of the experience. Every intentional experience is also directed at something, is also about something, be it an experience of a deer, a cat, or a mathematic state of affairs. Husserl called the component that specifies what the experience is about, the intentional matter of the experience (Husserl, 1984, 425-426). Needless to say, the same quality can be combined with different matters, and the same matter can be combined with different qualities. It is possible to doubt that ‘the inflation will continue’, doubt that ‘the election was fair’, or doubt that ‘one’s next book will be an international bestseller’, just as it is possible to deny that ‘the lily is white’, to judge that ‘the lily is white’, or to question whether ‘the lily is white’. Husserl’s distinction between the intentional matter and the intentional quality consequently bears a certain resemblance to the contemporary distinction between propositional content and propositional attitudes (though it is important to emphasize that Husserl by no means took all intentional experiences to be propositional in nature). But, and this is of course the central point, Husserl considered these cognitive differences to be experiential differences. Each of the different intentional qualities has its own phenomenal character. There is an experiential difference between affirming and denying that Hegel was the greatest of the German idealists, just as there is an experiential difference between expecting and doubting that Denmark will win the 2002 FIFA World Cup. What it is like to be in one type of intentional state differs from what it is like to be in another type of intentional state. 2 Similarly, the different intentional matters each have their own phenomenal character. There is an experiential difference between believing that ‘thoughts without content are empty’ and believing that ‘intuitions without concepts are blind’, just as there is an experiential difference between denying that ‘the Eiffel Tower is higher than the Empire State building’ and denying that ‘North Korea has a viable economy’. To put it differently, a change in the intentional matter will entail a change in what it is like to undergo the experience in question. 3 And these experiential differences, these differences in what it is like to think different thoughts, are not simply sensory differences. 4

In the same work, Husserl also called attention to the fact that one and the same object can be given in a variety of different modes. This is not only the case for spatiotemporal objects (one and the same tree can be given from this or that perspective, as perceived or recollected etc.), but also for ideal or categorial objects. There is an experiential difference between thinking of the theorem of Pythagoras in an empty and signitive manner, i.e., without really understanding it, and doing so in an intuitive and fulfilled manner, i.e., by actually thinking it through with comprehension (Husserl, 1984, 73, 667-676). In fact, as Husserl points out, our understanding of signs and verbal expressions can illustrate these differences especially vividly: “Let us imagine that certain arabesques or figures have at first affected us merely aesthetically, and that we then suddenly realize that we are dealing with symbols or verbal signs. In what does this difference consist? Or let us take the case of a man attentively hearing some totally strange word as a sound-complex without even dreaming it is a word, and compare this with the case of the same man afterwards hearing the word, in the course of conversation, and now acquainted with its meaning, but not illustrating it intuitively. What in general is the surplus element distinguishing the understanding of a symbolically functioning expression from the uncomprehended verbal sound? What is the difference between simply looking at a concrete object A, and treating it as a representative of ‘any A whatsoever’? In this and countless similar cases it is the act-characters that differ.”(Husserl, 1984, 398).

More recently, Galen Strawson has argued in a similar fashion, and in his book Mental Reality he provides the following neat example. Strawson asks us to consider a situation where Jacques (a monoglot Frenchman) and Jack (a monoglot Englishman) are both listening to the same news in French. Jacques and Jack are certainly not experiencing the same, for only Jacques is able to understand what is being said; only Jacques is in possession of what might be called an experience of understanding. To put it differently, there is normally something it is like, experientially, to understand a sentence. There is an experiential difference between hearing something that one does not understand, and hearing and understanding the very same sentence. And this experiential difference is not a sensory difference, but a cognitive one (Strawson, 1994, 5-6). This is why Strawson then concludes as follows: “the apprehension and understanding of cognitive content, considered just as such and independently of any accompaniments in any of the sensory-modality-based modes of imagination or mental representation, is part of experience, part of the flesh or content of experience, and hence, trivially, part of the qualitative character of experience.”(Strawson, 1994, 12). 5

Every conscious state, be it a perception, an emotion, a recollection, an abstract belief etc., has a certain subjective character, a certain phenomenal quality, a certain quality of ‘what it is like’ to live through or undergo that state. This is what makes the mental state in question conscious. In fact, the reason we can be aware of our occurrent mental states (and distinguish them from one another) is exactly because there is something it is like to be in those states. The widespread view that only sensory and emotional states have phenomenal qualities must consequently be rejected. Such a view is not only simply wrong,
phenomenologically speaking. Its attempt to reduce phenomenality to the “raw feel” of sensation marginalizes and trivializes phenomenal consciousness, and is detrimental to a correct understanding of its cognitive significance. 6

2. An intentionalistic interpretation of phenomenal qualities

........"


Later extract:

". . . The divide and rule strategy, the attempt to separate intentionality and phenomenality, the attempt to deny that intentional states have any intrinsic phenomenal properties, and that phenomenal states have any intrinsic intentional properties, and the attempt to treat each topic as if it could be understood in isolation from the other, does not only very easily lead to a kind of “consciousness inessentialism,” to the view that phenomenal consciousness is cognitively epiphenomenal. As mentioned earlier, the strategy also seems to reinstate a traditional concept of subjectivity that runs foul of everything that has been captured by the phrase 'being-in-the-world’. According to such a traditional (empiricist) concept, phenomenal consciousness has in and of itself no relation to the world. It is like a closed container filled with experiences that have no immediate bearing on the world outside. Typically, this internalist position has then been given a representationalist slant: On its own, our mind cannot reach all the way to the objects themselves. It is therefore necessary to introduce some kind of representational interface between the mind and the world if we are to understand and explain intentionality, i.e., the claim has been that our cognitive access to the world is mediated by mental representations.

In contrast, for the phenomenologists, subjectivity—the experiential dimension—is not a self-enclosed mental realm; rather, subjectivity and world are, as Merleau-Ponty puts it in his Phénoménologie de la perception, co-dependent and inseparable (Merleau-Ponty, 1945, 491-492). Subjectivity is essentially oriented and open toward that which it is not, and it is exactly in this openness that it reveals itself to itself. What is disclosed by the cogito is, consequently, not a self-contained immanence or a pure interior self-presence, but an openness toward alterity, a movement of exteriorization and perpetual self-transcendence. 7 Since the phenomenological theories of intentionality are unfailingly non-representationalist, they also reject the view according to which phenomenal experiences are to be conceived of as some kind of internal movie screen that confronts us with mental representations. We are ‘zunächst und zumeist’ directed at real existing objects, and this directedness is not mediated by any intra-mental objects. The so-called qualitative character of experience, the taste of a lemon, the smell of coffee, the coldness of an ice cube are not at all qualities belonging to some spurious mental objects, but qualities of the presented objects. Rather than saying that we experience representations, it would be better to say that our experiences are presentational, and that they present the world as having certain features. 8 ........"

http://cfs.ku.dk/staff/zahavi-publications/intentionality-experience.pdf
 
Right. Some kind(s) of field phenomena must be part of/contribute to the integration of brain functions that yield what Barr called "a global workspace" in the brain, where thousands of processes must be carrried out at once. Pity, the cognitive neuroscientists and those in the public who parrot their reductive presuppositions and terminology will have to give up the notion that everything we sense and feel (physically and emotionally), attend to and intend, think, and do -- including everything we see, hear, taste, smell, and otherwise appreciate esthetically/aesthetically in the environing world -- is 'hard-wired' in the brain. Let's take a moment to rest in our release from that questionable dogma. {Sigh. . . . now doesn't that feel better?}
Discernment between brain matter and consciousness is so obvious to me that I tend to think that it should be equally obvious to everyone else. So what is the real nature of the reductionist/non-reductionist debate? Consciousness as an emergent phenomena is a non-reductionist position. I'm perfectly fine with that. It's been my default position from he start. However in your opinion, does also agreeing that the best evidence strongly suggests that the material structures of the brain are the cause of such emergence, reverse my position back into reductionism? Why would it matter either way if figuring out what's going on is the aim?
The authors of the biorxiv paper I linked recognize in section 4 of their paper that their research discovery of evident brain functionality in the absence of/following the severing of neural connectivity in the surgically altered brains of patients in the study is just the beginning of further research into the question of what this means -- of what else might be involved in brain-mind processing and must now be investigated as well. A breath of fresh air.
The work of Persinger pretty much proves that EM fields influence consciousness in ways that mimic paranormal experiences. So there we have a working example of a materially separate source directly influencing conscious experience. What it seems we need to figure out is whether or not the fields associated with natural brain function loop back to influence the brain itself, and I suspect that this will turn out to be the case and the key. The problem is that we don't know what known fields are at work ( if any ) or if any unknown type of field is at work that has thus far remained undetected. It would seem that if EM fields can influence conscious experience, then having a closer at such fields seems to be the direction to take. Or what do you think?
What are your responses to the two Panksepp papers I linked?
Good stuff. However I would at the same time advise caution against assuming that the experiential world of other animals is the same as those of humans. More often than not I think that we humans psychologically project our own emotions on the behavior of animals in a way that is reflected back to us in a manner that reinforces our belief.

Guilty Dog


:p
 
Last edited:
God helmet - Wikipedia

On the other hand, at least
according to Wikipedia there has only been one successful replication of the effects of one of the early "God Helmet" experiments and there is still debate and controversy around Persinger's theoretical and experimental work, so it may be prudent to advise caution about any assumptions re: Persinger's God Helmet work without researching the controversy.
 
@ufology writes:

"Good stuff. However I would at the same time advise caution against assuming that the experiential world of otheranimals is the same as those of humans. More often than not I think that we humans psychologically project our own emotions on the behavior of animals in a way that is reflected back to us in a manner that reinforces our belief."

I believe Panksepp addresses this concern directly in a quote @Constance supplied on the previous page:

"As I have noted many times ‘‘As long as psychology and neuroscience remain more preoccupied with the human brain's impressive cortico-cognitive systems than subcortical affective ones, our understanding of the sources of human consciousness will remain woefully incomplete’’(Panksepp, 2004a, p. 58).

I will advance the case that one widely neglected form of animal/human consciousness—one that creates internally experienced emotional feeling states—is now sufficiently well understood to permit an affirmative answer to my opening question. Other mammals do have affective experiences. Such states may be a common denominator for a detailed cross-species analysis of relevant brain functions because scientific variants of anthropomorphism can guide the study of integrative mind–brain functions in other animals."
 
Affective consciousness: Core emotional feelings in animals and humans

In the "gift of nature" phrase taken from the Abstract (quoted below) we may find an anti-dote to the beautiful reductions of Braitenberg's Vehicles.

Vehicles


"This dual-aspect monism approach to brain–mind functions, which asserts that emotional feelings may reflect the neurodynamics of brain systems that generate instinctual emotional behaviors, saves us from various conceptual conundrums. In coarse form, primary process affective consciousness seems to be fundamentally an unconditional ‘‘gift of nature’’ rather than an acquired skill, even though those systems facilitate skill acquisition via various felt reinforcements."
 
A longer extract from the Ludwig paper in dialogue with Siewert's book:

"2.2. Arguments Against the Necessity of Self-Reflection for Phenomenal Consciousness

Siewert presents a number of arguments against the necessity of self-reflection for phenomenal consciousness. I want to examine these to see whether they are successful. If they are, then the arguments I have given above must be flawed in some way. But I am not so far convinced that Siewert's arguments are successful.

(a) Argument by example. The first argument is that we can know that some conscious mental states are not the object of any representation simply by reflecting on many of the conscious mental states we do have. There is a certain general difficulty, I think, in making this case, but let me first explain what sorts of examples Siewert has in mind. The first has to do with "silent speech":

"I do a lot of silent talking to myself in the course of an ordinary day. But often, even typically, when I do this, I am not attending to, or taking note of, this occurrence as it happens. Usually I am paying attention to, and consciously thinking about, only whatever it is that I am silently talking about. Though, for example, I am speaking silently to myself as I read something, I am not (consciously) thinking about my silent speech all the while- -I am too busy concentrating now on what I am reading about. This is not to say I do not know that I am thinking, as it is happening--I do know. But the kind of knowledge I then have of my own experience does not require that a thought of some sort occur to me about my experience as I am having it. (p. 198)

The second has to do with ordinary perceptual experience in everyday life:

"... consider the sort of perception we have when engaged in activity that requires more coordinated movement than what is sufficient merely to perceive--the sort one typically has of one's own body and surroundings when going somewhere, whether by walking, riding, driving, or swimming; when grasping and moving things, whether in, say, building, cleaning, repairing, or cooking something; and in the course of all manner of movement involved in human contact--shaking hands, conversing, dancing, punching someone in the eye. It would be an odd sort of life, difficult to imagine, in which one without pause consciously thought about one's perceiving as one went about such activities. Often, if one is doing these things, and one is, properly speaking, consciously thinking about anything at all, it is about that which one perceives, not about one's perceiving--or else about something entirely apart from either of these." (p. 199)

I think these examples show something, but I don't think that they show that conscious mental states are not <represented by> {? or try instead: 'understood by'} their subjects as possessed by them at the time they have them. For we need to distinguish between consciously thinking about a concurrent thought or experience, where this signals a kind of direction of attention to the thought or experience, and representing oneself at the time as having the experience. {Do we? Or do we mislead ourselves about the integrative nature of consciousness in thinking so?} The latter can occur without the represented experience being one which one is attending to or taking note of, for these activities are quite special.

That this is so is shown by the fact that we can tell after the fact that some of our conscious mental states were not ones we were attending to. It is precisely because we can recall having them and recall at the time not having attended to them that we know not all of our conscious mental states are attended to (and thought about in that sense) at the time we have them. But to recall having had them we had to know that we had them at the time. And to know that we had them at the time, we had to be in possession of a representation of our having them at the time. {Disagree: we can sense/know/understand experiences as our own without 'representing' them as conscious reflections.} Thus, these examples are not examples of conscious mental states that we were not concurrently representing ourselves as having. {Nay. score one for Siewert.}

Indeed, in the first passage above, Siewert says explicitly that when we engage in "silent speech" we do know that we do so, even if we are not attending to it (and in that sense entertaining a conscious thought about it). This must be so to produce {recall?} examples of experiences we did not attend to. And this shows that there is a general difficulty with the strategy of showing from the first person perspective that some conscious mental states are not accompanied by any representing of the subject as having them. For if there were any such states, we would not know from the first person perspective that we had had them, and so could not thereby cite them as examples of the relevant sort."

It seems that Ludwig is proposing that consciousness must take both a 'first-person' experiential position in our lived being and also a 'third-person' position on the fact of our having experience. I think the case is rather that, as MP describes experiential consciousness, we are always conscious of 'something' and also nonpositionally conscious of ourselves as having our experiences. I also think that concerning subconsciously registered experiences we do not have nonpositional consciousness or awareness of them as they occour (though they nevertheless influence what we feel and think).

As Stevens expressed it, ". . . we reason of these things / With later reason."

I hope someone besides me turns up here soon to respond or react, or even just say 'this is boring.' ;)

Never boring ... I appreciate the diverse materials you bring to the forum and the fluidity with which you move between them!
 
@Constance I've not found a transcript but this lecture


by

Catherine Malabou - Wikipedia

I think relates very well to your recent postings of Panksepp's work. Malabou earned her degree under Derrida and we have looked at Malabou's Que faire de notre cerveau? (What Shall We Do With Our Brain?) and her ideas of "plasticity".

Here she looks at wonder and its relationship to political power - she touches on undercurrents of the discussion on consciousness that we have yet to touch on.
 
What Malabou says about the new affect ("AWOL" in Sachs' terminology) the symbolic ("body without organs") and the neurological body and its relationship to politics - political power depends on this dis-affectedness ... and how we might resist the discussion on its current neurobiological terms while acknowledging its findings is very challenging.
 

Excellent lecture. What an intellectual background she has and what an incisive mind with which to synthesize it!!! So glad you found and posted this lecture.

Here she looks at wonder and its relationship to political power - she touches on undercurrents of the discussion on consciousness that we have yet to touch on.

We need to expand our inquiry into consciousness and mind accordingly. I searched a bit for the history for the concept of 'wonder'
and came first to a wikipedia page on the subject and this timely quote from Descartes:

"Although it is good to be born with some kind of inclination to this passion [wonder] because it disposes us to the acquisition of sciences, yet we ought afterwards to endeavor as much as we can to be rid of it." (Descartes The Passions of the Soul 2 Article 76.)

:)

You also wrote quoting Panksepp:

[QUOTE="smcder, post: 257505, member: 8448]"In coarse form, primary process affective consciousness seems to be fundamentally an unconditional ‘‘gift of nature’’ rather than an acquired skill, even though those systems facilitate skill acquisition via various felt reinforcements."[/QUOTE]

and quoted Randall's comment:

"Good stuff. However I would at the same time advise caution against assuming that the experiential world of other animals is the same as those of humans. More often than not I think that we humans psychologically project our own emotions on the behavior of animals in a way that is reflected back to us in a manner that reinforces our belief."

to which I want to respond that Panksepp never 'assumed' anything, and neither do close readers of his countless papers and his three books in biology and neuroscience. Few people will/can read all of this, but I've found a link to two more of his major papers that should clarify the evidential basis for his affective neuroscience and its significance for consciousness studies:

Jaak Panksepp, On the Subcortical Sources of Basic Human Emotions and the Primacy of Emotional-Affective (Action-Perception) Processes in Human Consciousness, and

Jaak Panksepp, The Neuro-Evolutionary Cusp Between Emotions and Cognitions. Implications for Understanding Consciousness and the Emergence of a Unified Mind Science.

These papers, published in the journal Evolution and Cognition, can be found beginning on page 134 at the following link:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54b85e43e4b07f864ec6eeb9/t/55529bdbe4b0be98edbb82c7/1431477211843/Are+Chimpanzees+‘Mere’+Existentialists?+A+Phylogenetic+Approach+to+Religious+Origins+(PAGE+14).pdf - page=29

Another resource for comprehending the scope of what Panksepp's research and theory has to offer is his most recent book, The Archaeology of Mind: Neuroevolutionary Origins of Human Emotion, with a text sample at amazon. The Norton [publisher's] page for this book includes [amazon doesn't] Panksepp's preface, which is a good place to begin. Perhaps the preface is also included at the Google Books page for this book.





 
Last edited:
Excellent lecture. What an intellectual background she has and what an incisive mind with which to synthesize it!!! So glad you found and posted this lecture.



We need to expand our inquiry into consciousness and mind accordingly. I searched a bit for the history for the concept of 'wonder'
and came first to a wikipedia page on the subject and this timely quote from Descartes:

"Although it is good to be born with some kind of inclination to this passion [wonder] because it disposes us to the acquisition of sciences, yet we ought afterwards to endeavor as much as we can to be rid of it." (Descartes The Passions of the Soul 2 Article 76.)

:)

You also wrote quoting Panksepp:

[QUOTE="smcder, post: 257505, member: 8448]"In coarse form, primary process affective consciousness seems to be fundamentally an unconditional ‘‘gift of nature’’ rather than an acquired skill, even though those systems facilitate skill acquisition via various felt reinforcements."

and quoted Randall's comment:

"Good stuff. However I would at the same time advise caution against assuming that the experiential world of other animals is the same as those of humans. More often than not I think that we humans psychologically project our own emotions on the behavior of animals in a way that is reflected back to us in a manner that reinforces our belief."

to which I want to respond that Panksepp never 'assumed' anything, and neither do close readers of his countless papers and his three books in biology and neuroscience. Few people will/can read all of this, but I've found a link to two more of his major papers that should clarify the evidential basis for his affective neuroscience and its significance for consciousness studies:

Jaak Panksepp, On the Subcortical Sources of Basic Human Emotions and the Primacy of Emotional-Affective (Action-Perception) Processes in Human Consciousness, and

Jaak Panksepp, The Neuro-Evolutionary Cusp Between Emotions and Cognitions. Implications for Understanding Consciousness and the Emergence of a Unified Mind Science.

These papers, published in the journal Evolution and Cognition, can be found beginning on page 134 at the following link:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54b85e43e4b07f864ec6eeb9/t/55529bdbe4b0be98edbb82c7/1431477211843/Are+Chimpanzees+‘Mere’+Existentialists?+A+Phylogenetic+Approach+to+Religious+Origins+(PAGE+14).pdf - page=29

Another resource for comprehending the scope of what Panksepp's research and theory has to offer is his most recent book, The Archaeology of Mind: Neuroevolutionary Origins of Human Emotion, with a text sample at amazon. The Norton [publisher's] page for this book includes [amazon doesn't] Panksepp's preface, which is a good place to begin. Perhaps the preface is also included at the Google Books page for this book.





[/QUOTE]


"76. How wonder can be harmful, and how to fix things if there is too little or too much of it Wondering too much—looking in astonishment at things that are near enough to negligible—is much commoner than wondering too little. Excessive wondering can entirely block or pervert the use of reason. It's good to be born with some inclination to wonder, because that increases scientic curiosity; but after we have acquired some scientic knowledge we should try to free ourselves from this inclination ·to wonder·. We can easily make up for the loss of it through a special state of reflection and attention that we can voluntarily impose upon our understanding when we think that the subject-matter is worth the trouble. As for excessive wondering: the only cure for that is to acquire knowledge about many things and to deal with things that seem unusual and strange ·not by wondering at them but· by examining them."
 
and quoted Randall's comment:

"Good stuff. However I would at the same time advise caution against assuming that the experiential world of other animals is the same as those of humans. More often than not I think that we humans psychologically project our own emotions on the behavior of animals in a way that is reflected back to us in a manner that reinforces our belief."

to which I want to respond that Panksepp never 'assumed' anything, and neither do close readers of his countless papers and his three books in biology and neuroscience. Few people will/can read all of this, but I've found a link to two more of his major papers that should clarify the evidential basis for his affective neuroscience and its significance for consciousness studies:

Jaak Panksepp, On the Subcortical Sources of Basic Human Emotions and the Primacy of Emotional-Affective (Action-Perception) Processes in Human Consciousness, and

Jaak Panksepp, The Neuro-Evolutionary Cusp Between Emotions and Cognitions. Implications for Understanding Consciousness and the Emergence of a Unified Mind Science.

These papers, published in the journal Evolution and Cognition, can be found beginning on page 134 at the following link:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54b85e43e4b07f864ec6eeb9/t/55529bdbe4b0be98edbb82c7/1431477211843/Are+Chimpanzees+‘Mere’+Existentialists?+A+Phylogenetic+Approach+to+Religious+Origins+(PAGE+14).pdf - page=29

Another resource for comprehending the scope of what Panksepp's research and theory has to offer is his most recent book, The Archaeology of Mind: Neuroevolutionary Origins of Human Emotion, with a text sample at amazon. The Norton [publisher's] page for this book includes [amazon doesn't] Panksepp's preface, which is a good place to begin. Perhaps the preface is also included at the Google Books page for this book.







"76. How wonder can be harmful, and how to fix things if there is too little or too much of it Wondering too much—looking in astonishment at things that are near enough to negligible—is much commoner than wondering too little. Excessive wondering can entirely block or pervert the use of reason. It's good to be born with some inclination to wonder, because that increases scientic curiosity; but after we have acquired some scientic knowledge we should try to free ourselves from this inclination ·to wonder·. We can easily make up for the loss of it through a special state of reflection and attention that we can voluntarily impose upon our understanding when we think that the subject-matter is worth the trouble. As for excessive wondering: the only cure for that is to acquire knowledge about many things and to deal with things that seem unusual and strange ·not by wondering at them but· by examining them."[/QUOTE]

Also in re: @Ufology comment, I like Panksepp's phrase:

"scientific variants of anthropomorphism"

"Such states may be a common denominator for a detailed cross-species analysis of relevant brain functions because scientific variants of anthropomorphism can guide the study of integrative mind–brain functions in other animals."
 
We've had a bit of stormy weather here:

rps20170503_060556.jpg rps20170503_060621.jpg
rps20170503_060644.jpg

In the last picture notice the washed out culvert on our driveway ...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top