Randall
J. Randall Murphy
In what way would a consensus among academics make the mind-body problem more interesting for you?
-
NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!
Consciousness and the Paranormal — Part 8
- Thread starter Gene Steinberg
- Start date
- Status
smcder
Paranormal Adept
Excellent find @Constance
"We think, in contrast, that an integration of teleological descriptions can only be possible by taking them seriously: by accepting that organisms are subjects having purposes according to values encountered in the making of their living. This means clearly to reintroduce value and subjectivity as indispensable organic phenomena, a theory of the organism as the dynamics of establishing an identity and, hence, as a process of creating a materially embodied, individual perspective."
Michael Allen
Paranormal Adept
Here's the channel (lots of random stuff...not just piano): Michael Allen
Here's part of the Ravel piece -- informal practice recording ... my daughter interrupted me a few times.
smcder
Paranormal Adept
Section 65: this is where the paper claims Kant anticipated Aautopoiesis:
The Critique of Judgement - Online Library of Liberty
"We say of nature and its faculty in organised products far too little if we describe it as ananalogon of art; for this suggests an artificer (a rational being) [279] external to it. Much rather does it organise itself and its organised products in every species, no doubt after one general pattern but yet with suitable deviations, which self-preservation demands according to circumstances."
... sounds a bit like someone else's ideas too.
smcder
Paranormal Adept
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Your skills are impressive and the daughter interludes were adorable
Do you have any CD's or downloads where you've combined instruments or worked with others on original material?
"10 Indeed, it is no exaggeration to say that from the beginning to the end, Merleau-Ponty was attempting to think the form discovered by Gestalt psychology; and that in this sense, form takes the place of the ‘thing itself’ to which the Husserlian precept enjoins us to return: all of Merleau-Ponty’s descriptions, of behaviour as of the perceived world, are guided and con-strained by the Gestalt.” Renaud Barbaras, “Merleau-Ponty et la psychologie dela forme,”Les Etudes philosophiques, vol. 57, no. 2 (2001), 151–63, here 151;my translation."
Sense-Making and Symmetry-Breaking: Merleau-Ponty, Cognitive Science, and Dynamic Systems Theory (PREPRINT)
Sense-Making and Symmetry-Breaking: Merleau-Ponty, Cognitive Science, and Dynamic Systems Theory (PREPRINT)
smcder
Paranormal Adept
link doesnt work. Can you download the picture and then upload here?
Michael Allen
Paranormal Adept
Your skills are impressive and the daughter interludes were adorable
Do you have any CD's or downloads where you've combined instruments or worked with others on original material?
I have a few things posted in the soundcloud link which combine other effects, sounds, etc. Electronic works mainly. No CDs are official albums or anything like that
Michael Allen
Paranormal Adept
A very interesting read -- I have scanned through it somewhat and have found some very interesting passages. I digest this stuff slowly, so my impressions and commentary will take some time to build.
I can screen print it into my Windows Photo Editing program (as I do with Mars JPL images) and then cache it in my account at Photobucket and try to post it here. But I'm recalling that I tried to that with the large insect showing up in a JPL Mars image and only the photobucket link appeared rather than the image itself. Tagging this message to @Gene Steinberg to ask for additional help.
For some reason my photobucket links automatically post the image itself at facebook. Why not here?
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
If it's of any use to you, It looks to me like MMP's philosophical views on consciousness and related phenomena in humans is built on emergentism:
"Merleau-Ponty argues that neither approach is tenable: organic life and human consciousness are emergent from a natural world ..." - Stanford Encyclopedia Of Philosophy
The rest is as you put it, a collection of "words and syntax" ( but with much less "trickery" ) that attempts to fit all the available truths from multiple concepts into a unified whole. I've found it to be very impressive and in some cases very expressive as well, but because of the complexity, I can also see how it can be easy to loose sight of the bigger picture.
When that happens to me I simply say to myself, "OK, what I'm looking at here is some aspect of nature > universe > evolution > biology > perception > intelligence > consciousness, and on that map, this particular philosophical position is attached right about here ( X ) to some psychological, scientific, or creative subset of that continuum."
This enables me to zero in on key concepts fairly quickly without getting lost. But, unlike @Constance, who seems to be able to free-climb some of the steeper walls with respect to MPP, I don't experience it the way she seems to, and therefore sometimes ( and I think she would agree ) I fail to fully appreciate it to the level she does.
Last edited:
I can screen print it into my Windows Photo Editing program (as I do with Mars JPL images) and then cache it in my account at Photobucket and try to post it here. But I'm recalling that I tried to that with the large insect showing up in a JPL Mars image and only the photobucket link appeared rather than the image itself. Tagging this message to @Gene Steinberg to ask for additional help.
For some reason my photobucket links automatically post the image itself at facebook. Why not here?
Photo now copied in photobucket and I'm copying the link into the thingy that looks like a paperclip in Paracast tools:
Photo by constance523
I've been meditating on this Cardinal while waiting for my computer to function this afternoon {my "Desktop Agent Tray" has stopped working according to messages from either Windows or Chrome}. It occurred to me that the Cardinal might have been seeking repose for the purpose of obtaining relief from the constant sensory pressure of the sounds and sights of the outer world in which he dwells. The way toddlers, tired from an afternoon of play, often withdraw while awake from the activities going on around them -- thumb in mouth, holding one's blanket, eyes a bit glazed over, expressing the message "I'm not getting involved in all this." On the other hand it was shortly after dawn when Bonnie saw and photographically captured this Cardinal up in the trees above her pool and he might have simply been asleep [but what is sleep but the rest needed by all living creataures to reopen to the presence of the sensual, tactile, tangible world in which they, like we, are embedded?].
That all living creatures need sleep diurnally means that waking life is filled to the brim with sensory experience (to the extent that the creature's doors of perception are open). Reminds me of the most valuable, for me, contribution made in the comments to Greer's most recent blog by a person who linked a very interesting book concerning sensory channels and gating. Ooops, checking now I find that the commentor's suggested book merely led me to this book linked at amazon:
Plant Intelligence and the Imaginal Realm: Beyond the Doors of Perception into the Dreaming of Earth May 3, 2014
by Stephen Harrod Buhner
With this author's insights still in mind from a generous section of it that I read last night at amazon*, Elliot's lines "Teach us to care and not to care. / Teach us to sit still" came to mind for me as I meditated on the resting Cardinal. Reminding me of course of Sorge/Care as Heidegger identified it as intrinsic to human consciousness -- and I think also intrinsic to animal consciousness and already germinal as Maturana and Varela showed in the autopoiesis of primordial cellular life. MP wrote "man is in the world and only in the world does he know himself," but that's also obviously true for MP of all living beings. The natural world draws us out of our own being into its being, into the continual activity of the world's body and the activity of the other consciousnesses that permeate it, energizing us with bodily nourishment, responsive touch, and sensorial inspiration to follow our perceptive channels into exploration of the world's being, which becomes deeply fulfilling aesthetic experience as well as a range for our own activity and development. [We have not yet explored the aesthetics of the natural world's phenomenal appeal to consciousness, and we should.] I'm currently reading a wonderful book elaborating on MP's insights -- Louise Westling, The Logos of the Living World: Merleau-Ponty, Animals, and Language (Fordham University Press, 2014) which I recommend to anyone wanting to pursue this inquiry into the origins of consciousness/subjectivity in nature.
*Here are the sections of the first book I linked above, concerning sensory channels and gating, available to read, if you interested, in the amazon text sample: Chapter 2, The Doors of Perception, and Chapter 3, "And the Doorkeeper Obeys When Spoken To."
That all living creatures need sleep diurnally means that waking life is filled to the brim with sensory experience (to the extent that the creature's doors of perception are open). Reminds me of the most valuable, for me, contribution made in the comments to Greer's most recent blog by a person who linked a very interesting book concerning sensory channels and gating. Ooops, checking now I find that the commentor's suggested book merely led me to this book linked at amazon:
Plant Intelligence and the Imaginal Realm: Beyond the Doors of Perception into the Dreaming of Earth May 3, 2014
by Stephen Harrod Buhner
With this author's insights still in mind from a generous section of it that I read last night at amazon*, Elliot's lines "Teach us to care and not to care. / Teach us to sit still" came to mind for me as I meditated on the resting Cardinal. Reminding me of course of Sorge/Care as Heidegger identified it as intrinsic to human consciousness -- and I think also intrinsic to animal consciousness and already germinal as Maturana and Varela showed in the autopoiesis of primordial cellular life. MP wrote "man is in the world and only in the world does he know himself," but that's also obviously true for MP of all living beings. The natural world draws us out of our own being into its being, into the continual activity of the world's body and the activity of the other consciousnesses that permeate it, energizing us with bodily nourishment, responsive touch, and sensorial inspiration to follow our perceptive channels into exploration of the world's being, which becomes deeply fulfilling aesthetic experience as well as a range for our own activity and development. [We have not yet explored the aesthetics of the natural world's phenomenal appeal to consciousness, and we should.] I'm currently reading a wonderful book elaborating on MP's insights -- Louise Westling, The Logos of the Living World: Merleau-Ponty, Animals, and Language (Fordham University Press, 2014) which I recommend to anyone wanting to pursue this inquiry into the origins of consciousness/subjectivity in nature.
*Here are the sections of the first book I linked above, concerning sensory channels and gating, available to read, if you interested, in the amazon text sample: Chapter 2, The Doors of Perception, and Chapter 3, "And the Doorkeeper Obeys When Spoken To."
Last edited:
Evening Without Angels
the great interests of man: air and light, the joy of
having a body, the voluptuousness of looking.
—Mario Rossi
Why seraphim like lutanists arranged
Above the trees? And why the poet as
Eternal chef d'orchestre?
Air is air.
Its vacancy glitters round us everywhere.
Its sounds are not angelic syllables
But our unfashioned spirits realized
More sharply in more furious selves.
And light
That fosters seraphim and is to them
Coiffeur of haloes, fecund jeweller—
Was the sun concoct for angels or for men?
Sad men made angels of the sun, and of
The moon they made their own attendant ghosts,
Which led them back to angels, after death.
Let this be clear that we are men of sun
And men of day and never of pointed night,
Men that repeat antiquest sounds of air
In an accord of repetitions. Yet,
If we repeat, it is because the wind
Encircling us, speaks always with our speech.
Light, too, encrusts us making visible
The motions of the mind and giving form
To moodiest nothings, as, desire for day
Accomplished in the immensely flashing East,
Desire for rest, in that descending sea
Of dark, which in its very darkening
Is rest and silence spreading into sleep.
. . . Evening, when the measure skips a beat
And then another, one by one, and all
To a seething minor swiftly modulate.
Bare night is best. Bare earth is best. Bare, bare,
Except for our own houses, huddled low
Beneath the arches and their spangled air,
Beneath the rhapsodies of fire and fire,
Where the voice that is in us makes a true response,
Where the voice that is great within us rises up,
As we stand gazing at the rounded moon.
Wallace Stevens
the great interests of man: air and light, the joy of
having a body, the voluptuousness of looking.
—Mario Rossi
Why seraphim like lutanists arranged
Above the trees? And why the poet as
Eternal chef d'orchestre?
Air is air.
Its vacancy glitters round us everywhere.
Its sounds are not angelic syllables
But our unfashioned spirits realized
More sharply in more furious selves.
And light
That fosters seraphim and is to them
Coiffeur of haloes, fecund jeweller—
Was the sun concoct for angels or for men?
Sad men made angels of the sun, and of
The moon they made their own attendant ghosts,
Which led them back to angels, after death.
Let this be clear that we are men of sun
And men of day and never of pointed night,
Men that repeat antiquest sounds of air
In an accord of repetitions. Yet,
If we repeat, it is because the wind
Encircling us, speaks always with our speech.
Light, too, encrusts us making visible
The motions of the mind and giving form
To moodiest nothings, as, desire for day
Accomplished in the immensely flashing East,
Desire for rest, in that descending sea
Of dark, which in its very darkening
Is rest and silence spreading into sleep.
. . . Evening, when the measure skips a beat
And then another, one by one, and all
To a seething minor swiftly modulate.
Bare night is best. Bare earth is best. Bare, bare,
Except for our own houses, huddled low
Beneath the arches and their spangled air,
Beneath the rhapsodies of fire and fire,
Where the voice that is in us makes a true response,
Where the voice that is great within us rises up,
As we stand gazing at the rounded moon.
Wallace Stevens
Soupie
Paranormal Adept
That was my thought. Wow.
Soupie
Paranormal Adept
"This article builds on an indication from Thompson in order to propose a new account of form as asymmetry, and of the genesis of form in nature as symmetry breaking."
Very interesting. Ties in with many of the ideas weve been discussing throughout.
smcder
Paranormal Adept
I can screen print it into my Windows Photo Editing program (as I do with Mars JPL images) and then cache it in my account at Photobucket and try to post it here. But I'm recalling that I tried to that with the large insect showing up in a JPL Mars image and only the photobucket link appeared rather than the image itself. Tagging this message to @Gene Steinberg to ask for additional help.
For some reason my photobucket links automatically post the image itself at facebook. Why not here?
Can you save the image to your computer drive? Save it from your photo editing program maybe ... Then just click "Upload a file" button - below the forum post window and browse to it.
Not so far as I can figure out. The problem here at Paracast is that Photobucket is not included in the list of sources from which images can be embedded in posts here. I've asked Gene to look into adding it. In the meantime, this link will take you to the Cardinal with its wing covering its eyes.
Photo by constance523
- Status