1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY A PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+! For a low subscription fee, you will receive access to an ad-free version of The Paracast, the exclusive After The Paracast podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, plus show transcripts, the new Paracast+ Video Channel, Classic Episodes and Special Features categories! We now offer lifetime memberships! You can subscribe via this direct link:
    https://www.theparacast.com/introducing-the-paracast/

    The Official Paracast Store is back! Check out our latest lineup of customized stuff at: The Official Paracast Store!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!
    Dismiss Notice

Consciousness and the Paranormal — Part 11

Discussion in 'General Freewheeling Chit-Chat' started by Gene Steinberg, Dec 26, 2017.



  1. Pharoah

    Pharoah Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Messages:
    948
    Likes Received:
    574
    Location:
    London
  2. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    3,961
  3. Frank Stalter

    Frank Stalter Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Messages:
    498
    Likes Received:
    174
    Home Page:
    Hahaha, a lot of people would disagree with that at least as a general proposition. This is the only forum I hang at at all and have always had a good time here.
     
    Constance likes this.
  4. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    3,961
    @Pharoah, in the meantime here's a paper that might interest you and should interest those in this company who are most interested in what computers and cyborgs might be made capable of at some point in time if they are capable of experiencing phenomenological contact with the world we humans live in so vividly and sensually as to have led us to art, philosophy, science, and technology.

    Yukiko Okamoto. Computability and Meaning ~ some Phenomenological Issues in constructing a Cyberspace ~

    http://www2.ipcku.kansai-u.ac.jp/~t980020/Husserl/vol.3_2005/okamoto-e.pdf
     
  5. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    3,961
    @Pharoah, beginning to read this paper now and am already in accord with this extract from the first page:

    "In my view the ongoing strength and coherence of phenomenology as a force within the contemporary philosophical culture is not to be explained by what Maurice Merleau-Ponty called the ‘unity’ of its ‘manner of thinking’ but rather by what he perhaps somewhat more faithfully called its (in his view only currently) ‘unfinished nature’ (vii,xxi). Indeed, in order to affirm the ongoing capacity for phenomenology to have a future, a capacity perhaps already evident in the astonishing internal diversity that marks its existing legacy, I suggest that we should regard this unfinished condition as a kind of constant. The diversity within phenomenological philosophy is not to be explained away as an ‘inchoative atmosphere’ that ‘inevitably’ attends the early days of a ‘movement’ on its way to ‘becoming a doctrine or philosophical system’ (xxi). On the contrary, it is properly internal to its philosophical character, internal to its affirmation of philosophy as an ‘ever-renewed experiment in making its own beginning’ (xiv), internal to what Jacques Derrida calls its prolific openness to ‘self-interruption’ (81)."

    continuing to read this paper with an appetite for where the author is going.
     
  6. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    3,961
    Good. I'm very glad that you're here.
     
  7. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    3,961
    I think that Simon Glendenning in the paper you cite expresses very clearly what I would like to have been able to articulate here concerning the significance of phenomenology as providing a new basis for philosophy, one closer to the bone of what we experience and therefore are enabled to reflect on and think about concerning the world that grounds both our experiences and our subsequent thought. That is, phenomenology is unique in exploring the subjectively lived ground out of which our species has developed reflective consciousness out of the primordial ground of pre-reflective consciousness, which is where we begin -- i.e., our intimate pre-verbal knowledge/comprehension of our being-in-the-world before we develop categorical thought by which we have attempted to divide the nature of our experience from abstract representations of the world disposed in wholly objective categories.

    I'm particularly grateful to you for bringing this paper here since it helps me at this point in my own writing about phenomenology and the poetry of Wallace Stevens. Not just grateful, but indebted.
     
  8. Pharoah

    Pharoah Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Messages:
    948
    Likes Received:
    574
    Location:
    London
    It is an interesting paper.
    Personally, I love analysis and a good argument... and I think analysis and argument are important tools for philosophical inquiry. But the phenomenological approach can be equally engaging and informative. And let's face it, no philosophical stance, by whatever mode of inquiry or description, has resisted the peppering shots of critical debate over decades: they all seem now to resemble shattered stone forts where once they may have seemed to be impenetrable fortresses. So why would one wish to sneer and suggest that a certain kind of inquiry is more valid than another? Philosophy has no crisis of identity, for it has no identity to defend. Why then defend one approach at the expense of another?
     
    Constance likes this.
  9. Michael Allen

    Michael Allen Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    682
    Likes Received:
    431
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
  10. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    3,961
    Very interesting article, @Michael. Being incomputerate, and a good deal innumerate, myself, I'm unable to evaluate the details of Radin's account, but would be interested in any critiques you might want to offer. Given the results of several decades of research measuring intentional effects on random number generators, I'm inclined to accept Radin's interpretation of the experiments described in the linked paper.

    Extract from the concluding section of this paper:

    "Beyond consideration of possible mechanisms, from a purely empirical perspective the present results are in alignment with an extant literature that spans nearly a century.21 One of the better known classes of relevant studies has involved intentional influence of truly random number generators (RNG) where the underlying randomness is based on quantum events.31, 39, 40 A theoretical model proposed to account for successful RNG studies is known as “Observational Theory.” It was described by Houtkooper as [follows]:

    "The measurement problem in quantum mechanics can be used to hypothesize an observer who adds information at the collapse of the wave function. For each random event one of the possible outcomes becomes realized as the event is being observed. The basic tenet of observational theory is: the statistics of single events become biased if the observer is motivated and prefers one of the possible outcomes over the other.41, p.171"
     
    Michael Allen likes this.
  11. Soupie

    Soupie Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    Location:
    Unbound Telesis
    I've found some writings on QFT that I have found extremely helpful. I know that many people feel that all discussion and investigation of consciousness should reside at the level of neurons, but the Hard Problem and the binding problem so far resist classical explanations.

    Also check the comment section for Q and As from readers and the author. Good stuff.

    https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2015/08/20/qft/
     
    Constance likes this.
  12. Soupie

    Soupie Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    Location:
    Unbound Telesis
    One particularly interesting exchange in the comments:


     
  13. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    3,961
    Musical interlude:

     
  14. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    3,961
  15. Michael Allen

    Michael Allen Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    682
    Likes Received:
    431
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    I continue to accept the orthodox understanding that measurement is an action that takes up time and space and therefore changes the thing being measured with or without an observer to read the data. That being said, I am intrigued with the idea that conciousness itself adds to the "tensor product" making up the full picture and could in and of itself add feedback into the experiement. Since I don't think of "consciousness" or "awareness" as ontologically distinct from the rest of the physical world, it is a tautology--even if the variables are somewhat diluted within the chain of tensor product transformations.
     
    Soupie likes this.
  16. Michael Allen

    Michael Allen Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    682
    Likes Received:
    431
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    I will admit that I am very likely unqualified to give any helpful critique of the paper. In the episode I focused mainly on the metaphysical assumptions of the guest.
     
  17. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    3,961
  18. Constance

    Constance Paranormal Adept

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2013
    Messages:
    6,683
    Likes Received:
    3,961
Loading...

Share This Page