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cattle mutilation with a twist
- Thread starter mike
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UBERDOINK
Skilled Investigator
Well, I'm not saying that aliens can't be living hundreds of millions of light years away from us.
But NO aliens have ever, or will ever, visit us in flying saucers.
That's a naive view of the universe and the phenomena and more like wishful thinking on the part of scifi fans.
But NO aliens have ever, or will ever, visit us in flying saucers.
That's a naive view of the universe and the phenomena and more like wishful thinking on the part of scifi fans.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
UBERDOINK said:
This is a purely preferential statement. You have absolutely no way of knowing this and no means of backing it up, it's pure BS. It's amazing to me that you can't see the intrinsic paradox of your own statements when compared to your criticisms of the statements of others.
And for the record I do not make statements on this subject, I make speculations and suppositions because NONE OF IT, pro or con, has been demonstrably proven either way.
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
UBERDOINK said:
How do you know your certainty didn't come from denial and ignorance?
Without a doubt there is wishful thinking going on, however just because there are a percentage of quacks doesn't mean there isn't any legit doctors.
Statements like yours makes even Phil Klass seem open minded and humble.
No one can know if aliens have never been here. You can't prove a negative etc. To conclude upon something you can't prove is to have blind faith, not a knowing or fact.
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
Well, there are some good cases like the Intruders case that defy mundane explanations. It has an explanation, that being "aliens" abducted people etc. If you can explain away the Intruders cases I'd be impressed.
UBERDOINK
Skilled Investigator
Paranormal Packrat said:
well, i looked for it and all I found was something that involved hypnosis to "uncover" (i.e. implant) memories.
If hypnosis is involved any "facts" that have to do with Aliens from another world were, according to real studies, implanted by the hypnotist.
Maybe something weird happened to the people in this case, but again, NO EVIDENCE of aliens from a different planet.
Just evidence of more odd paranormal weirdness.
Why do you guys want to believe in aliens from other planets so badly? Even without real proof?
Its late Uberdoink and though you are doing a great job living up to your handle. im in no mood to play this stupid patsy game with you or anyone else that up for hairsplitting and idiotic semantic adventures in wasted time......
the evidence is for you to find....you are presumably able to do so....
Try the recent south american chupacabras or even the brazilian ufo incident where more than one "alien was captured...
as i recall, a policeman,was seen capturing one of these starnge beings, and taking it in his arms for tensport to a hospital.
Unfortunately he died of some unknown virus mere days afterward....
theres plenty of testimony in the Gepan files as well as other incident reports that include alien beings....
If the pilots reports of UFOs are to be believed then these are reports from similar professionals....
You probly wouldnt admit you encountered an alien if one cold cocked you....
The truth is far wilder than can be imagined....
try the disclosure project site for sme very high powered testimony of expert witnesses about ufos, and aliens.
Check out the brazillian incidents as well as all the other south american reports....they seem to have a plague of aliens and ufos down there.....
One thing sure doink, yer just sitting with yer head where the sun dont shine if you have really studied the whole thing and still cant get the picture.....
Perhaps a few more years of protracted study will break that wall of denial down enough sos you can examine the evidence with a truely open mind....should there actually be one in there......
bergle
the evidence is for you to find....you are presumably able to do so....
Try the recent south american chupacabras or even the brazilian ufo incident where more than one "alien was captured...
as i recall, a policeman,was seen capturing one of these starnge beings, and taking it in his arms for tensport to a hospital.
Unfortunately he died of some unknown virus mere days afterward....
theres plenty of testimony in the Gepan files as well as other incident reports that include alien beings....
If the pilots reports of UFOs are to be believed then these are reports from similar professionals....
You probly wouldnt admit you encountered an alien if one cold cocked you....
The truth is far wilder than can be imagined....
try the disclosure project site for sme very high powered testimony of expert witnesses about ufos, and aliens.
Check out the brazillian incidents as well as all the other south american reports....they seem to have a plague of aliens and ufos down there.....
One thing sure doink, yer just sitting with yer head where the sun dont shine if you have really studied the whole thing and still cant get the picture.....
Perhaps a few more years of protracted study will break that wall of denial down enough sos you can examine the evidence with a truely open mind....should there actually be one in there......
bergle
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
I found an interview, broken up in parts, dealing with what this thread is, or at least was about for those interested.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cTmkw6fU6lk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTmkw6fU6lk&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cTmkw6fU6lk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTmkw6fU6lk&feature=related
UBERDOINK
Skilled Investigator
bergle, I have caught an alien, and it's now living in my guest room.
He comes from another plant and just wants to spread a message of peace by mutilating cattle and abducting people for their own good.
So, now you have one more "eyewitness" account to believe.
Oh also, if your in the market for a bridge, I have one that has barely been used up for sale. ;-)
FYI Whitiley Strieber by the way isn't all hot on Aliens from other planets theory either. I'm sure he just needs to research more.
He comes from another plant and just wants to spread a message of peace by mutilating cattle and abducting people for their own good.
So, now you have one more "eyewitness" account to believe.
Oh also, if your in the market for a bridge, I have one that has barely been used up for sale. ;-)
FYI Whitiley Strieber by the way isn't all hot on Aliens from other planets theory either. I'm sure he just needs to research more.
UBERDOINK
Skilled Investigator
Occam's razor is the only reason I can think of not focusing on aliens from other planets theory. Also the fact that there IS no evidence of Aliens from other planets. Please show me some?
Here's why it matters.
Something IS happening, but if we ever want to find out the truth, we have to stop looking at only One valid hypothesis.
How many people KNOW aliens from other planets are doing these things?
How can they know that?
But because they Know it, they only research down those lines, and look only for evidence that fits that theory.
That's a huge problem when trying to really find out the facts about something.
Here's why it matters.
Something IS happening, but if we ever want to find out the truth, we have to stop looking at only One valid hypothesis.
How many people KNOW aliens from other planets are doing these things?
How can they know that?
But because they Know it, they only research down those lines, and look only for evidence that fits that theory.
That's a huge problem when trying to really find out the facts about something.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
UBERDOINK said:
Occam's Razor is completely subjective. What's logical to one person is jibberish to another.
Here's the deal: the universe is nigh infinite. We discover new extra-solar planets every day and those are just the ones we CAN detect, they have no bearing on the actual number. The evidence indicates that extra-solar planets not only exist but are in fact quite common. A percentage of those planets will be life harbouring. Now quick, what's any percentage of infinity?
So, it's essentially guaranteed that there ARE aliens somewhere. Now are they just crawling out of the slime or are they already extinct? Ahead of us technologically or behind us? Obviously, only two of those catagories are relevant: Alive now and ahead of us technologically. Given those concepts are practically guaranteed to be true based on the sheer size and age of the universe, the argument that SOME UFOs could be the exploratory craft of an extra-terrestrial race is not only NOT ludicrous, it is almost insane to deny it as fact. That's not belief, that's math.
UBERDOINK said:
I think you'll find that if you bother to ask very few people (around here, anyway) cling to the ETH as the sole plausible explanation. A preference for some perhaps but not the alpha and omega.
UBERDOINK said:
Presumably because that's what the aliens have told them. Yes, yes, I know, it's not real, it's not happeneing, there's no such thing, etc, etc...
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
Strange someone with the sig, "open minds are hard to find" is having such a hard time with the notion ets might be visiting.
A
ArizonaWill
Guest
Uberdoink,
Gee, I sure wish you'd find a more pretty even middle class acceptable avatar. Looking at that ugly picture is really distasteful. Can't you find a nice picture of Betty Crocker or something wholesome to look at?
I just had to get that off my chest (anything to lose a few pounds).
I tend to agree with you that there is no proof that ETs are on Earth and there could be many explanations for what we see. Certainly, this seems to be the very premise of the entire Paracast show!! Certainly, Dave and Gene with their pal Jeff are pondering such alternative explanations.
However, ETs does still remain one option, albiet not the only one.
Even if there are billions of what we'd consider intelligent species of aliens "out there" where does that automatically equate to them being technological at all? We are so good at the Star Trek meme that we assume any intelligent species would automatically end up with a powerful military-industrial complex, space travel, and all the wonderful toys that sci-fi movies are populated with. As the always contrary government thugs of Communist China said of the original Star Wars movie (paraphrased) "It's just a marketing ploy for capitalist technology....." (typical communist spoil sports!).
But in a sense, their cranky viewpoint seems weirdly relevant here, so many years later. What if something akin to dolphins are the dominant intelligent life form in the cosmos? What if other alien species are endowed with natural gifts and/or a natural environment that makes technology basically unnecessary?
I mean, we just don't know, do we? And I certainly would not trust the word of abductees, who may be part of a masterpiece of mirage by interdimensional pranksters, perhaps a small fetish group that gets off by scaring humans with the same abduction examination scenario over and over year after year after year after year....
Anyway, if you are debating here just for the point of debating, then I don't support you. But if you are sincerely trying to point out what Dave/Gene and others on the Paracast have been saying since 2006, i.e., that we do not know what THIS is all about and WHO/WHAT it is, then I support you.
Just please find an avatar that doesn't make me cringe. Call me a shallow Californian, but we like pretty things. Afterall, look at my avatar (me)!
Gee, I sure wish you'd find a more pretty even middle class acceptable avatar. Looking at that ugly picture is really distasteful. Can't you find a nice picture of Betty Crocker or something wholesome to look at?
I just had to get that off my chest (anything to lose a few pounds).
I tend to agree with you that there is no proof that ETs are on Earth and there could be many explanations for what we see. Certainly, this seems to be the very premise of the entire Paracast show!! Certainly, Dave and Gene with their pal Jeff are pondering such alternative explanations.
However, ETs does still remain one option, albiet not the only one.
Even if there are billions of what we'd consider intelligent species of aliens "out there" where does that automatically equate to them being technological at all? We are so good at the Star Trek meme that we assume any intelligent species would automatically end up with a powerful military-industrial complex, space travel, and all the wonderful toys that sci-fi movies are populated with. As the always contrary government thugs of Communist China said of the original Star Wars movie (paraphrased) "It's just a marketing ploy for capitalist technology....." (typical communist spoil sports!).
But in a sense, their cranky viewpoint seems weirdly relevant here, so many years later. What if something akin to dolphins are the dominant intelligent life form in the cosmos? What if other alien species are endowed with natural gifts and/or a natural environment that makes technology basically unnecessary?
I mean, we just don't know, do we? And I certainly would not trust the word of abductees, who may be part of a masterpiece of mirage by interdimensional pranksters, perhaps a small fetish group that gets off by scaring humans with the same abduction examination scenario over and over year after year after year after year....
Anyway, if you are debating here just for the point of debating, then I don't support you. But if you are sincerely trying to point out what Dave/Gene and others on the Paracast have been saying since 2006, i.e., that we do not know what THIS is all about and WHO/WHAT it is, then I support you.
Just please find an avatar that doesn't make me cringe. Call me a shallow Californian, but we like pretty things. Afterall, look at my avatar (me)!
UBERDOINK
Skilled Investigator
fastwalker, thanks for the sober response. 
No I'm not arguing just to argue, I have done my research and have been so disappointed with almost everyone jumping to the Alien from other worlds theory. I've also noticed that the few that don't, or disagree get bombed by the "more well informed".
I read a Dean Koontz novel (yeah, hes ok every once in awhile) about a small town that people disappear in, everyone left behind is seeing strange things and lights in the sky, so they started gathering together to fight the aliens and try and figure out why they are doing this.
At the end of the book the remaining survivors are still trying to understand this alien technology and threat, when one of them realizes it's not technology but supernatural (i won't spoil the ending altogether). Koontz makes a very interesting case, that humans will FORCE an explaination on what they don't or can't understand.
The current forced explanation, because of microwave's and moon landings has become aliens. What if it's mystical, natural, or a combination of ghosts and static electricity? I don't know, but no-one else does either.
Confirmation bias and narrative fallacy plagues all the sciences, but even more so the pseudosciences because the data is scant and untestable.
FYI I'm in LA too, and that's a picture of my mom! ;-P j/k
No I'm not arguing just to argue, I have done my research and have been so disappointed with almost everyone jumping to the Alien from other worlds theory. I've also noticed that the few that don't, or disagree get bombed by the "more well informed".
I read a Dean Koontz novel (yeah, hes ok every once in awhile) about a small town that people disappear in, everyone left behind is seeing strange things and lights in the sky, so they started gathering together to fight the aliens and try and figure out why they are doing this.
At the end of the book the remaining survivors are still trying to understand this alien technology and threat, when one of them realizes it's not technology but supernatural (i won't spoil the ending altogether). Koontz makes a very interesting case, that humans will FORCE an explaination on what they don't or can't understand.
The current forced explanation, because of microwave's and moon landings has become aliens. What if it's mystical, natural, or a combination of ghosts and static electricity? I don't know, but no-one else does either.
Confirmation bias and narrative fallacy plagues all the sciences, but even more so the pseudosciences because the data is scant and untestable.
FYI I'm in LA too, and that's a picture of my mom! ;-P j/k
Ok doink i get it.
There aint no mutilated cattle....there aint no aliens...its all in our heads ala Valee (as if that was his origonal thought....)
You fail to comment with any so called proof of yer own....
But i do have some statistical data garnered over years by reliable witnesses,as well as physical traces and tales ,Both waking memory and regression memory of abductions as well as peaceful contacts between aliens and individuals....ie Walton et al...
There is an immense amount of declassified Military data to lead one to believe in the reality of these things...
Ive offered alternaters(dimensional travellers,time travellers)
but you faiol to produce yer own p,latform baacked by link or references...
Doink yer a doink
bergle
There aint no mutilated cattle....there aint no aliens...its all in our heads ala Valee (as if that was his origonal thought....)
You fail to comment with any so called proof of yer own....
But i do have some statistical data garnered over years by reliable witnesses,as well as physical traces and tales ,Both waking memory and regression memory of abductions as well as peaceful contacts between aliens and individuals....ie Walton et al...
There is an immense amount of declassified Military data to lead one to believe in the reality of these things...
Ive offered alternaters(dimensional travellers,time travellers)
but you faiol to produce yer own p,latform baacked by link or references...
Doink yer a doink
bergle
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
Shoulda seen my last avatar.
http://www.ambrosiasw.com/~andrew/funny/noob.jpg
T
Tommy Allison
Guest
How do we know that Serial Killing Aliens don't exist?
Now theres food for cogitation.......
However, the trip doesnt end with cows and peeples.
Ive heard rumour of a wave of pets turning up across the states(im not too sure about elsewhere ) aparently only half of the carcass is ever found...
This is also pretty wierd stuff.
Its is a great pity the high strangeness factor seems to bring out the lunatic fringe in droves to muddy the waters and cast the whole thing into untouchability to mainstream science,which has the toys to really make definitive measurements.
This leaves us with no funding to speak of, and precious little instruments
It all boils down to a small but dedicated band of self equipped and self taught (sometimes a great personal sacrifice) people who refuse to let go of the problem.
Did you ever step back mentally and look at the flow of human speculation?
At times im positive that the manipulative powers which touch the mass psycheof the world are in far more firm control of human thought process than wed be comfortable knowing.......
Areas of forbidden knowledge are simply ridiculed and made socially unacceptable by treating them as kooky or insane .........
When pulled all together the total forces arrayed against free and constructive thought,research, or speculation,by us averaage slobs are formidable indeed.
Any truely novel concept is held up to derision till it wears that barrier down......it does this by it persistance to occurance.....
In other words it wont go away.....
As things "do not go away more consistantly"
science is eventually forced to include such hardy phenomenon in its paradigm....
Till that process completes we never see a very convcerted efgfort to get to the bottom of the baffling and sometimes wierdly baizaare 9sic) happenings.
We live in a dual reality as it were....
The physical data is handed in,
no plausible explanations are forthcomming.
At this point the matter gets dropped as being inexplicable......
What gets my goat is this very concept of the inexplicable....
Shouldnt that be the very subject of our earnest persuit?
The inexplicable should be our focus and goal....
The explicable is knowing and dealing with what we can understand, but the inexplicable should be the God of science instead of its laughing post........
Certain provable things have occured....
proven...
Thes are are not idle fantasies....yet the world ignores them, and PLACES EVEN THE VERY CONTMPLATION OF THEM, into the luntatic fringe and thus minimises any effort or progress that can be mounted.
By persistance of the occurancce of the unexplained the borders of our consciousness will be expanded but it will be w while yet before well ever get much serious help.
The FBI has thrown, and other law enforcement(locally)some investigatory effort...
The conclusions of their investigations is basically no conclusion at all...
But the documented facts stand by themselves as mute witness to physical reality....(We are talking cattle in the thousands, whole herd s of sheep and horses too have been found thusly mutilated.)
While humanity as a whole, mulls it all over in its collective mind, trying to decide if its really happening here or not....This has been an ongoing problem....
If it werent for the law and the lunatic fringe, the subject would remain the property of the standup comics and weathermens jokes.
When we need the scientists they will only go to minimal effort to explain the facts,after which they go back to their comfortable paradigm leaving us holding the bag on reality.
ie. the rancher, or farmer, standing over his or her prized animal, the entire guts if which have been extracted through a neatly incised circular hole, coring the rectum,as well as gallons of blood,and certain facial parts....also gone.
Now all he can do is dispose of his loss and await the hysterical laughjter to subside, and hopefully science will deign to give the situation its attention in the future.
However, the trip doesnt end with cows and peeples.
Ive heard rumour of a wave of pets turning up across the states(im not too sure about elsewhere ) aparently only half of the carcass is ever found...
This is also pretty wierd stuff.
Its is a great pity the high strangeness factor seems to bring out the lunatic fringe in droves to muddy the waters and cast the whole thing into untouchability to mainstream science,which has the toys to really make definitive measurements.
This leaves us with no funding to speak of, and precious little instruments
It all boils down to a small but dedicated band of self equipped and self taught (sometimes a great personal sacrifice) people who refuse to let go of the problem.
Did you ever step back mentally and look at the flow of human speculation?
At times im positive that the manipulative powers which touch the mass psycheof the world are in far more firm control of human thought process than wed be comfortable knowing.......
Areas of forbidden knowledge are simply ridiculed and made socially unacceptable by treating them as kooky or insane .........
When pulled all together the total forces arrayed against free and constructive thought,research, or speculation,by us averaage slobs are formidable indeed.
Any truely novel concept is held up to derision till it wears that barrier down......it does this by it persistance to occurance.....
In other words it wont go away.....
As things "do not go away more consistantly"
science is eventually forced to include such hardy phenomenon in its paradigm....
Till that process completes we never see a very convcerted efgfort to get to the bottom of the baffling and sometimes wierdly baizaare 9sic) happenings.
We live in a dual reality as it were....
The physical data is handed in,
no plausible explanations are forthcomming.
At this point the matter gets dropped as being inexplicable......
What gets my goat is this very concept of the inexplicable....
Shouldnt that be the very subject of our earnest persuit?
The inexplicable should be our focus and goal....
The explicable is knowing and dealing with what we can understand, but the inexplicable should be the God of science instead of its laughing post........
Certain provable things have occured....
proven...
Thes are are not idle fantasies....yet the world ignores them, and PLACES EVEN THE VERY CONTMPLATION OF THEM, into the luntatic fringe and thus minimises any effort or progress that can be mounted.
By persistance of the occurancce of the unexplained the borders of our consciousness will be expanded but it will be w while yet before well ever get much serious help.
The FBI has thrown, and other law enforcement(locally)some investigatory effort...
The conclusions of their investigations is basically no conclusion at all...
But the documented facts stand by themselves as mute witness to physical reality....(We are talking cattle in the thousands, whole herd s of sheep and horses too have been found thusly mutilated.)
While humanity as a whole, mulls it all over in its collective mind, trying to decide if its really happening here or not....This has been an ongoing problem....
If it werent for the law and the lunatic fringe, the subject would remain the property of the standup comics and weathermens jokes.
When we need the scientists they will only go to minimal effort to explain the facts,after which they go back to their comfortable paradigm leaving us holding the bag on reality.
ie. the rancher, or farmer, standing over his or her prized animal, the entire guts if which have been extracted through a neatly incised circular hole, coring the rectum,as well as gallons of blood,and certain facial parts....also gone.
Now all he can do is dispose of his loss and await the hysterical laughjter to subside, and hopefully science will deign to give the situation its attention in the future.
A
ArizonaWill
Guest
Bergie, your post was very eloquent. I'd like to just express a couple responses:
1. I feel that we are dealing with a phenomena that does not want to be figured out. It seems to be able to morph at will into something else, and just about the time someone like Stanton Friedman thinks he has it figured out (e.g., aliens from another star system getting here in advanced technology) it throws a curve ball by presenting us with the "black dog" syndrome, or inexplicable mutilations. Many early reports from the 50's onward (before WE settled on a Grey alien motiff), were just plain odd. In one case, a disk floated up to someone and a voice asked the time. The person responded, and the voice responded back "You lie! It is 4 p.m." It made no sense. Then there are reports of people seeing wizards (e.g., Harry Potter's Dumbledore drones) and even Jesus Christ aboard scaucers. What do we make of such a carnival of effects?
2. Point one above brings us to the second point. You lament that scientists will not take the phenomena seriously. Well, my assertion is that even when they do, the phenomena outsmarts them, or simply evaporates. A case in point is the Skinwalker ranch. After a scientific examination over a long period time, all they really have to show for it are anecdotes. They effectively just disbanded the investigation when the phenomena took a powder (as old movies used to say).
The phenomena seems to flourish best in an "amateur" environment with average folks who have nothing to show for it but at most some bruises and post traumatic stress. When you bring in the big guns with their technology to investigate, often the phenomena plays coy or plays tricks.
I just keep hoping that somehow somewhere someone will just sort of stumble upon the answer, perhaps on a day when the phenomena is being too cocky. Otherwise, I suspect we will just continue to have perceptual reports from Mr. Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center, and scary anecdotes by abductees, or perhaps angelic cotton candy stories from New Age experiencers. And the beat goes on, as Cher said in an old song.
I wish we had some weapon like in the first ghost buster movie, where you could actually trap the phenomena within some sort of containment system. If we had such a tool, perhaps we'd gardner a little more respect from whatever is doing this.
1. I feel that we are dealing with a phenomena that does not want to be figured out. It seems to be able to morph at will into something else, and just about the time someone like Stanton Friedman thinks he has it figured out (e.g., aliens from another star system getting here in advanced technology) it throws a curve ball by presenting us with the "black dog" syndrome, or inexplicable mutilations. Many early reports from the 50's onward (before WE settled on a Grey alien motiff), were just plain odd. In one case, a disk floated up to someone and a voice asked the time. The person responded, and the voice responded back "You lie! It is 4 p.m." It made no sense. Then there are reports of people seeing wizards (e.g., Harry Potter's Dumbledore drones) and even Jesus Christ aboard scaucers. What do we make of such a carnival of effects?
2. Point one above brings us to the second point. You lament that scientists will not take the phenomena seriously. Well, my assertion is that even when they do, the phenomena outsmarts them, or simply evaporates. A case in point is the Skinwalker ranch. After a scientific examination over a long period time, all they really have to show for it are anecdotes. They effectively just disbanded the investigation when the phenomena took a powder (as old movies used to say).
The phenomena seems to flourish best in an "amateur" environment with average folks who have nothing to show for it but at most some bruises and post traumatic stress. When you bring in the big guns with their technology to investigate, often the phenomena plays coy or plays tricks.
I just keep hoping that somehow somewhere someone will just sort of stumble upon the answer, perhaps on a day when the phenomena is being too cocky. Otherwise, I suspect we will just continue to have perceptual reports from Mr. Davenport at the UFO Reporting Center, and scary anecdotes by abductees, or perhaps angelic cotton candy stories from New Age experiencers. And the beat goes on, as Cher said in an old song.
I wish we had some weapon like in the first ghost buster movie, where you could actually trap the phenomena within some sort of containment system. If we had such a tool, perhaps we'd gardner a little more respect from whatever is doing this.