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Cash Landrum case

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Thanks, Burnt State. I enjoyed talking with Greg and hope to get with back with him about the C-L connection to Richard Doty and the Bennewitz story.

Tyger, thanks for posting the documentary. Its one of the earliest and most accurate presentations of the case on film.

Some updates: I'm in touch with a former member of the Night Stalkers. He's cooperating with me, reviewing the helicopter operations and technical details reported in the Cash-Landrum case. On another front, I've located people with copies of an audio tape and two or three rare news or television programs on the case from 1981 - 1984. Getting the material may not be easy.

The case was recently featured on the program "Close Encounters," currently broadcast on the Science Channel. As the name implies, the focus is solely on the encounter, and the aftermath and investigation are seriously shortchanged. The re-enactment is dramatic, but very inaccurate. While the producers had access to some great resources, it just wasn't fact-checked properly. Still, I'm glad to see the case receiving exposure.

It seems that two other UFO programs have expressed interest in the case, and I hope they will provide for a more accurate and detailed report.
Keeping the case in the public eye will perhaps prompt someone with information to come forward.
 
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I really enjoyed this Radio Misterioso episode freaturing Blur Blurry Lines Cash-Landrum writer and researcher, Curt Collins. There were some very instructive points in this episode for those who follow thinking about UFO's as some infernal personal addiction. Recently we've heard Greg Bishop call for a focussed investigation on a case by case basis to see if there's anything there or not. As Curt described early on in the pursuit of the story, some of these UFO cases are as graspable as eels swimming in oil. This conversation did a pretty good job at getting at a fairly large chunk of this specific case and gave us clarity instead of the usual debunker/believer/researcher game of murder ball that goes on. This show tried to peel back the layers to get to the core of what is still a live story as pointed out above regarding the potential of a helicopter pilot interview.

Some of the highlights for me included Curt's very patient temperament with Greg where right at the start of the episode Bishop was trying to provide a synopsis of the case and got critical information wrong about the case. In some ways this was the main point for me, how in the broken telephone of retelling a story the UFO story gets altered with certain parts magnified while others recede. Here was the host, as if scripted, attempting to retell the Cash-Landrum case and had to be corrected on critical features multiple times. As Curt points out early on in this excellent interview it's one thing to tell your story, but it's something else when another person retells the story. This is a vital aspect of story-telling in our culture, how the story becomes modified and mythologized over time, depending on its importance in the culture and who all is eager to hear the tale. Some listen with a discerning ear and some just like a good story - so too is the Paracast Forum and all involved in the pursuit of such slippery stories.

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For UFOs buffs the Cash-Landrum is a critical case as its familiar surface story presents itself, in some corners, as a case of military involvement with an alien technology. It is also described as the best researched case. It features a diamond shaped craft spitting fire, while floating above a remote road in East Texas creating havoc for an unsuspecting vehicle carrying two women and a young child. It has blue cabin lights across the middle of it and burned a swirl into the road - the entire road was once replaced secretly in the night btw. The UFO produced a blinding burning light so hot the car could not be opened with bare hands, handprints were left on the heated dash, people got diarrhea and one person was hospitalized with swelling, blistering and even had their hair fall out - if that's not radiation poisoning from a UFO than what is right? And to top it off, this strange diamond shaped craft was escorted by a squadron of military helicopters. Wow - what a tale! But then, when you actually get into the story a very different set of facts are revealed.

I'll stop there because it's really worth listening all the way through. In this show we get an inkling into how we can find better insight into all those many other UFO stories, also in need of similar rigorous and diligent investigation, from a dispassionate writer who just wants to get to the core of the case. If anyone's going to do it with Cash-Landrum I suspect it will be Curt Collins. There was one quote early on in the episode where Mr. Collins provided his own way of understanding the case, "I just felt like there was a layer of wishful thinking applied to the story, and selective interpretation and apparently some omission of details that were unfavourable to the story." I wonder just how many UFO cases fall victim to this pattern? Will we always choose to render and repeat the fantastic as what we believe was seen, versus trying just to get at what it was the witness saw in the first place. Because after hearing this episode, i no longer see this ship, when i think Cash-Landrum…but I used to.

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Still, a good story. Everyone should tell more stories that are important to them.
There's always different versions of the tale, and if you search long enough; ultimately,
you will find the one you were meant to listen to, at last.
 
It was a most excellent interview. Collins' contribution to this classic case is in discarding much of the accepted folklore that has grown up around it over the decades to take a fresh look based on what we can say with some degree of confidence. As always at Misterioso, a great show.
 
I got critical info wrong because I forgot. I was not reading off an internet page or from a book in order to sound smart, which maybe I should have done. The problem is when people do this and don't want to be corrected because they would be embarrassed.
What i liked about it was how it served the example. If there was no one there to correct the info then that would just be another part of how stories shift over time in their retelling.

BTW, i've really been enjoying your episodes a lot lately - probably some of the most solid, entertaining, relaxing and engaging conversations about odd things a para-addled & ufologicaly stewed connoisseur could hope to find. You are a beacon, sir, truly. May you continue to chart the cosmos in your space farin' acoustical vibe ship as the sounds of palm muted reverb guitar plucking sends you on your surfing way. Also, belated congrats on the whole pilot thing. It must be exciting to be able to go up into the sky whenever you like. You've got a much better shot now at documenting sky critters, foo fighters, and your standard b-movie metallic saucer type UFO. Hope your wing cams are a go! Looking forward to more of the same.

And if you are taking requests it would be great if you could post the rest of that UFO album that only has the first 24 minutes up on Radio Misterioso - just one side? I just love the studio music added in for drama in the retelling. It makes for great Hallowe'en audio for the Trick 'n' Treaters. It would be great to hear the rest of the album sides if you got em.
 
Do we really know there were radiation effects? I don't think anyone's ever seen the medical reports.

On a recent Radio Misterioso interview with Curtis Collins, it was put forth that what the witnesses saw may have been consistent with a hot air balloon.

As for the helicopters, it just seems that the number reported is too crazy - it's just too many helicopters of any sort. I suspect a false memory, and I wonder if the whole thing could have been some sort of psyop, although I can't figure out what would motivate it.
 
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PCarr, I've got two letters from Dr. Rank who saw and summarized the Cash medial records. The hospital tests did not show radiation poisoning. The similarity in the symptoms kept leading him and the investigator to push to connect it with radiation.

The balloon similarity is haunting, but of course it doesn't solve things. I keep coming back to it because it matches size, shape, fiery pulses, sounds and possibly the Lighter fluid" odor. Probably just another dead end…

Non-physical helicopters are another interesting possibility, but how could such a thing perform? One possible clue are the shrill beeping sounds that were reported.
 
PCarr, I've got two letters from Dr. Rank who saw and summarized the Cash medial records. The hospital tests did not show radiation poisoning. The similarity in the symptoms kept leading him and the investigator to push to connect it with radiation.

The balloon similarity is haunting, but of course it doesn't solve things. I keep coming back to it because it matches size, shape, fiery pulses, sounds and possibly the Lighter fluid" odor. Probably just another dead end…

Non-physical helicopters are another interesting possibility, but how could such a thing perform? One possible clue are the shrill beeping sounds that were reported.

OK, I stand corrected on the medical reports, but the only evidence we have is from a radiologist who never examined Betty Cash?
 
Thanks, and it's no problem, boomerang. There's a lot of material to digest, with decades of misinformation impeding the way. I just came up with a case supplement to help, a scorecard or program of the case participants:
Who's Who in the Cash-Landrum UFO Case:
Mini Bios of the Witnesses & Key Players

Interesting that Alan Hendry was involved with the case. Are the tapes or transcripts of his interviews available? I believe he is still alive, but have been unable to track him down.
 
Dr. Bryan McClelland became Betty's physician in 1983, he was in a family practice and his speciality was geriatric medicine. To my knowledge, he is the only physician to unequivocally state she had radiation exposure. He's not a radiologist, but has been misrepresented as such in the media coverage.

I should say that radiologist Dr. Richard C. Niemtzow also believed the injuries were from UFO radiation, but based his opinion on case reports and photographs, not the medical records or examining the patients.

Skeptic Phil Klass was eager to see the medical records because he believed they contained damning evidence of pre-incident medical problems of Betty Cash. (She developed breast cancer in 1983 and had a double mastectomy.) I've come to think the reason for John Schuessler concealing the medical records is that it did not support his claims of radiation exposure. The test results were negative. Clearly, there were medical problems, but if it was radiation causing them, it was unlike what our science understands.

About Allan Hendry, his report is very valuable for his brief investigation, documenting interviews with the witnesses, and providing details like the angular size of the object and the discrepancy in the story about the car engine failing. I received a copy of his report from CUFOS, and based on what they told me, they sent me everything they had. So, if more exists it's in his private papers. His report, though was very thorough so I doubt key material was left out. Still, it would be great to be able to hear the witnesses' voices describe the events for ourselves in this early testimony before it was contaminated by the media.
 
The balloon similarity is haunting, but of course it doesn't solve things. I keep coming back to it because it matches size, shape, fiery pulses, sounds and possibly the Lighter fluid" odor. Probably just another dead end…

it seems to me from what i've read on the case through your site that the defining factor of the experience was the heat, and that the heat is what helped to make this an actual event. do you have confirmation in your mind that there was in fact a profound heat source outside the car as that would negate a balloon whose heat is directed upwards and not down?
 
do you have confirmation in your mind that there was in fact a profound heat source outside the car as that would negate a balloon whose heat is directed upwards and not down?
You raise an excellent point. While the earliest accounts are ambiguous about actual fire, they are explicit about about enormous heat and light produced by the object. About the only way to get around that is to start speculating that some of their perceptions were either tricked or being tampered with, and I'm just not ready to for that!

I do find the balloon to be a convenient UFO stand-in while examining events in motion. That way I can concentrate just on the actions of the witnesses and the helicopters.
 
yep

High altitude balloons are a snug fit in this case, what is more logical, a high altitude balloon which we know exist, or an extraterrestrial craft, that we dont know exist, traveling 1000s of light years to get here.

signed
Phillip Klass.
[ allegedly ]



but phillip the balloon was very low ?.

signed
Curious


Dear Curious

What goes up must come down.
Which is more logical, a high altitude balloon which we know exist, or an extraterrestrial craft, that we dont know exist, traveling 1000s of light years to get here.


signed
Phillip Klass.
[ allegedly ]
 
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I think it was already mentioned here, the program "Close Encounters" covering this case- giving the impression the object was focused on the vehicle. Once the object was above the vehicle, the engine shut down unable to start. I'm curious if the vehicle was targeted, or just in the wrong place at the wrong time.. a bit of both?
 
The "Close Encounters" show had some big problems in their presentation of the case. First they asked two UFO experts to discuss it, and both made mistakes describing the case (the worst of which was the UFO shooting out lightning). Rather than fact-check, the show based their re-creation largely on the combined description, including the errors, and then added some more of their own, most notably having the UFO hover directly above the car.

The vehicle allegedly being stopped by the UFO is an interesting claim, because it seems to be the first variation to the story. Apparently Betty did not mention it until talking to Allan Hendry in April 1981. When Schuessler found out about this, he chose to ignore it in his coverage of the case until he published his book in 1998, where he included quotes from Betty saying the engine just stopped. In any case, the frantic scene in the TV program of the attempts to restart the car are pure fiction.

I don't think the car was targeted. The UFO may not have been moving as much as the witnesses thought. Prior to the encounter, they saw it "moving" through the trees as they drove east. The road took a curve which then had them heading south, and shortly after that, they encountered it over the road. It could be the object was hovering there and they just drove there to meet it, but from their viewpoint it seemed to have traveled there.

The object didn't seem to interact with the car or occupants in any way, unless we speculate that it left the road because they were near. We cannot be absolutely certain it was under intelligent control, but two things strongly suggest that it was: the object seemed to have chosen to linger over the road while it was in distress, and when it left and flew away, it seemed to be reacting to the approach of the helicopters.
 
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