Cargo cults, Hynek and Vallee

[bluecat]

-How about having a show on cargo cults, or how a primitive culture deals with an encounter with an advanced culture.

Another thought . . .

I'm rereading books by J. Allen Hynek: The Hynek UFO Report and the UFO Experience, a Scientific Inquiry as well as some of Jaques Vallee's works including Messengers of Deception, Passport to Magonia, Forbidden Science and his more recent work of fiction, Stratagem.

I don't think the field of ufology has moved one inch beyond these two men. Hynek's, The UFO Experience, seems like it could have been written yesterday . . . and the things he has to say about short sighted scientist who laugh at the subject could just as well apply to Bill Nye, the Science Guy. It seems like time has stood still for a quarter centry. Last week, your guest said that when asked why he has gotten out of the ufo field, Vallee responed by saying, "Because I'm not learning anything new."

Is it just me? Have we just been marking time, or maybe even sliding backwards for a quarter century? I wonder what others think. Are we making progress?

Bluecat

 

[inuk2600]

Is it just me? Have we just been marking time, or maybe even sliding backwards for a quarter century? I wonder what others think. Are we making progress?

I'm starting to wonder if I completely ignore this topic and then come back to re-evaluate it after 20 years, am I likely to find any progress made or any consensus on the issue? If I go by historic precedent then no.
But if we factor in the new and unprecedented methods of science then we have some hope there maybe.

If nothing else, the story line is fantastic and intriguing and in a way enriches life.

 

[conor]

-How about having a show on cargo cults, or how a primitive culture deals with an encounter with an advanced culture.

Brilliant idea. You could try having getting a respected anthropologist on. A show like that would be like a form of research, rather than commentary.

 

[Siani]

We'll never have any progress in this field as long as individual researchers continue to cling doggedly to their favourite hypotheses, without giving due consideration to others. Another hindrance to progress in this field, is lack of original thought. The same old stuff is continually repackaged and rehashed.

It's time to think outside the box, because where's the logic in trying to force something into a box, when we know nothing of its properties, dimensions or any other features? The only way to fit such intangibles into a box, is by mentally moulding them into what we want them to be.

Alas, what we want, and what actually is, may be vastly at variance with one other. So, we end up discounting anything that will prevent the subject matter from neatly slotting in, thereby possibly discarding vital components. There are far too many closed minds in the UFO community for my liking, and conversely, far too many minds that are so open, their grey matter is whistling in the wind. Either way, progressive thinking in this field is very rare. Too rare.

 

[David Biedny]

Call me egotistical, but I'd like to think that this show - and certainly these forums - are one of the few places where perhaps we can attempt to move the conversation forward, to indeed break out of some of the stale thinking that has been prevalent in the field of paranormal research for the last handful of decades, to cut throw the bulk of the noise of charlatans and BS artists and uncover even a single grain of deeper understanding and wisdom.

dB

 

[dusty]

Totally agree with you there Dave,

I dont mind admitting that prior to listening to this show I was one of the great unwashed, ie I might have been one of those that actually believed what characters like Greer are peddling. Now I know better.

Being relatively new to the wonderful world of podcasting I was delighted to find
exactly what I was looking for in this show. Both my knowledge of the topics covered(and most importantly) critical thinking skills have been massively enhanced by Gene and Dave, many of the guests and many of you forum members, and yes that includes you Gareth (kissy, kissy) .

I think this show and forum are like diamonds in the dirt and I reckon that in the future it will be recognised as the valuable resource it already is.

Mark

 

[Schuyler]

I think the motif of Cargo Cults is a very insightful way to study the phenomena. I've been in the mode of gathering references of this sort with a voew to writing an article. Dusty has helped me out quite a bit. I'm of the opinion that Greer & Co. is a perfect Cargo Cult. So is Exopolitics. So is the 'New Age' 'earth changes' crowd. And, so is Christianity, the perfect Cargo Cult that succeeded in actually bringing home the loot.

About the best academic book on this is 'The Trumpet Shall Sound' by Peter Worsley (Schocken Books, 2nd edition, 1987, 300pp. ISBN: 978-0805201567) about Cargo Cults in Melanesia. Worlsey is a PhD anthropologist. It's pretty heavy going. I read it in conjunction with a course I took on New Guinea cultures years ago.

The schtick is always the same: The Messiah is coming any day now--within your lifetime. You must sell your worldly possessions and give the money to the church. You can stop working because there is no point. You must build a landing strip or a dock so that the cargo planes or ships can land. They will be full of everything you ever desired. The bad guys will be destroyed ushering in a new world order and you shall be saved. Sometimes you get a free run through Costco, and sometimes you have the Rapture and wind up in Heaven or get your 72 black eyed virgins. Not that much difference deep down.

I have to wonder if this is not some kind of built-in response humans have to external stimuli we do not fully comprehend. You can be a new Guinea Highlander who believes in The Force (as in may the Force be with you, which was more or less their idea before western civilization and missionaries got to them) or you can be a well-educated M.D. or PhD, (Greer & Salas) and still, the same basic pattern emerges. From an emotional and religious standpoint, it is no different.

One book I recommend on this is Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke. Some people feel this is his best work ever and I'll bet few people see this as about Cargo Cults, but it is. The aliens show up and won't show themselves, but they stop all wars and stop all discrimination. They force humanity to clean up its act. When they are ready all of humanity has a rapture-like experience and flows up as one into space (Heaven). Turns out the aliens look exactly like our concept of the Devil and that the memory of this has traveled backward in time because it represents the end of the human race as we know it. the aliens try to learn everything they can about us and ship a bunch of our stuff back to their home planet. One guy hides inside a whale and is thus able to narrate the tale. teh Devil guys are in some sort of evolutionary dead-end and cannot advance themselves, so their job turns out to be shepherding other races to the same evolutionary path. Yeah, I gave away the plot, but it is an excellent read.

 

[conor]

One book I recommend on this is Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke. Some people feel this is his best work ever and I'll bet few people see this as about Cargo Cults, but it is. The aliens show up and won't show themselves, but they stop all wars and stop all discrimination. They force humanity to clean up its act. When they are ready all of humanity has a rapture-like experience and flows up as one into space (Heaven). Turns out the aliens look exactly like our concept of the Devil and that the memory of this has traveled backward in time because it represents the end of the human race as we know it. the aliens try to learn everything they can about us and ship a bunch of our stuff back to their home planet. One guy hides inside a whale and is thus able to narrate the tale. teh Devil guys are in some sort of evolutionary dead-end and cannot advance themselves, so their job turns out to be shepherding other races to the same evolutionary path. Yeah, I gave away the plot, but it is an excellent read.

I love that book. Early Clarke is science fiction gold. Have you ever read "The City and the Stars"? It's a man who lives in the perfect city perfect people where no one dies (but they can be reabsorbed by the city's central computer). He's about the right age where he'll begin to remember the memories of his previous lifetimes when his "parents" (more like gaurdians) tell him he is unique in the fact that he has no previous lifetimes. He's also really bored in this city. Nobody goes outside because of a distant past that involved invaders of some sort. They all have a deep rooted fear of going outside. It's not that they can't (although it is hard to find a way out), but they just don't want to. Anyway, Alvin (the guy's name) dares to see what lies beyond this hitech city which is thousands if not millions of years in the future, and he goes on the adventure of a lifetime. Seriously, it's class.

 

[skunkape]

I am a member of a few different cargo-cults, of sorts, that are very much aware of the fact that they are cargo-cults, of sorts. Most members are also aware that it is all complete nonsense. That simple fact doesn't detract from the experience, as long as you don't let it. In many ways it heightens the experience. Oh, yeah...the World ends at precisely 7:00 a.m., July 5th. Better get right with Bob.

The High Weirdness Project: The End Is Coming


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