Burning Books

[Sean Elifritz]

You haven't thought you position through very well. It's the seemingly complete inability to question why certain things make us uneasy is the reason the world is in the state that it's in. Just how much of this is human behaviour and just how much is human habit. Bad habit.

Racisim is horrible, yet it is a part of of typical human behaviour. Does that mean it should be accepted as just the way things are? Our impulse to kill our own kind is also part of the human condition. Again should we accept is as just a part of our nature and not work to change?

Was MLK an emotionless computer? Was Ghandi an emotionless computer? Are all the people who speak out against the horrilbe side of humanity and call for us to think deeply about the reasons we hold the veiws we hold and do the things we do emotionless computers?

Why do you think that hope of becoming better than we are is a negation of reality?

Lol, so now we're waiting around for everyone to become like Gandhi? We're making our decisions based on our wishes that people were more like Gandhi, all several billion of us? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

But hey, I'm buzzed. My mother brought me over a 30 pack for my birthday and I've been indulging to the max, ha ha. So maybe I'll pick this laugh riot up later.

 

[stphrz]

Accepting it is dangerously misanthropic.

But I forget. For some, misanthropy is the final refuge of the righteous. Or rather the self righteous and bitter.

Enjoy your beer. Getting drunk is a great way to negate reality for a little while at least.

My hope is later, when you are sober you will reread your posts and be appalled.

 

[Kandinsky]

I think that this is an invite to violence. If one soldier or citizen is seriously injured or killed in protests or retaliative action then tell me how this spectacle was worth it. Man I hate this kind of stuff.

There's no proportional value to this awful story. A small-time pastor has generated enough media interest and overseas animosity to lead to deaths. It was on the radio how three guys were shot dead for attacking US soldiers in Afghanistan in protest at the purported book-burning.

I'm too old for idealism, jaded cynicism has made it tap out in defeat. Nevertheless, I wish the media would stop fanning the flames of all this animosity. A nobody with dumb thoughts of burning books shouldn't be able to precipitate death.

I listened to the radio report and thought how a moral media should ignore people like this. I briefly imagined his small flock of idiots burning books without any media witnesses turning up. Like the philosophical tree falling in the forest without anyone hearing it...who'd give a damn? Would it make any noise?

I can't express how frustrating and angering these bloody-minded and reckless media adventures are.

 

[Xylo]

Kandisky you nailed it. If no media covered this event, no interest. But hate grabs headlines. There you have it.

I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are.
William Tecumseh Sherman

My main concern with this event, should it happen and be publicized is the welfare and morale of our troops overseas. I don't really give a shit about the mosque or cultural center ( I think it's tasteless but I think seedy strip bars and watered down beer are tasteless too.) I do give a shit about young guys in uniform being targeted to "make a point" on Al Jazeera. Having been in a hostile country, in a hostile situation, wearing a uniform, I give a shit about the image that the media portrays to the rest of the world.

Sure, some people say "So what" and "It's us vs. them." But it boils down to this: This is the modern age. War isn't total war anymore. There are no more Curtis LeMays out there, nor should there be. So that means we have to be the better man, we have to "win their hearts and their minds." With that being the situation, any press from back home should be pretty damned good press. Remember, these Afghanis know how to fight, they have decent tactics and they fought the Russians for a few years. In fact Afghanistan was referred to as "Russia's Vietnam."

If we're trying to win the fight, based upon the politicians ROE, then we have to realize that the entire country is at war...not just our sons and daughters, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers. That includes that silly little pastor of a church who is getting more press than he deserves.

/my opinion

 

[CapnG]

So much politics on the board lately... and I swore I'd stay out of it too... sigh... I just can't let this slide though:

If some loonie gets upset about it enough to kill someone then that person was just looking for an excuse and nobody should care what he/she thinks anyway.

I absolutely agree, it's why we call them "extremists". However...

I get tired of being told we should walk on eggshells to please a few nutjobs thousands of miles away.

So don't. Just be prepared for more 9/11s. Or not. Wait and see.

Then we've got all these people clamoring for a giant mosque at the doorstep of Ground Zero. Again, I don't get it.

It's their constitutionally mandated right to do so, do you get THAT? You don't get to pick and choose which parts of the document apply to whom. Freedom for all is not freedom from hurt feelings and bruised egos. It's getting built, I suggest you get over it.

Why do they have to put one in that specific place?

Because they paid for it. You know, capitalism and all that? Still confused? See above.

How many Christian churches are in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, etc? I think we should make a trade. They can build a mosque at Ground Zero if we can put a church in Mecca. Sounds fair to me.

Sounds insane to me but then again I wasn't aware America had decided to lower it standards of freedom and democracy to equal those of Saudi Arabia. It's funny, I could have sworn America was supposed to be you know, BETTER than the theocratic dictatorships of the world but I guess "on par" is now the standard.

These same people can lament the burning of a Qur'an in Florida yet I very much doubt that the burning of a Bible 3 feet away from them would concern them at all.

Including yourself I assume? After all you just said "They're just books. Big deal." So which is it?

 

[stphrz]

There's no proportional value to this awful story. A small-time pastor has generated enough media interest and overseas animosity to lead to deaths. It was on the radio how three guys were shot dead for attacking US soldiers in Afghanistan in protest at the purported book-burning.

I'm too old for idealism, jaded cynicism has made it tap out in defeat. Nevertheless, I wish the media would stop fanning the flames of all this animosity. A nobody with dumb thoughts of burning books shouldn't be able to precipitate death.

I listened to the radio report and thought how a moral media should ignore people like this. I briefly imagined his small flock of idiots burning books without any media witnesses turning up. Like the philosophical tree falling in the forest without anyone hearing it...who'd give a damn? Would it make any noise?

I can't express how frustrating and angering these bloody-minded and reckless media adventures are.

I share your frustration at the way the news organizations have handled this story. I am also frustrated and saddened that it has already led to violence with concerns of it leading to more.

However, jaded cynicism leads nowhere but to empty wishes. Like somehow that is better than idealism. I'm not that young myself. When I hear folks half my age expressing the same old cynical bromides that pass for wisdom I want to shake them and yell "wake the fuck up!"

The fact that the media's actions have angered you and that you entertain notions of morality and responsible behavior means there's a little idealism left in you yet.

 

[Kandinsky]

The fact that the media's actions have angered you and that you entertain notions of morality and responsible behavior means there's a little idealism left in you yet.

Bound and gagged in a basement box, but you can still hear it singing from time to time.

 

[dyingsun]

One confirmed dead after Afghan police killed a protester that threw rocks at a german 'Bundeswehr' station (what the hell).

 

[exo_doc]

It is that idiot poopy-heads right to burn books in Florida. Freedom of speech must be protected, even for assholes.

Smart thing to do? Absolutley not. Meredith Viera(sp?) asked him if he felt reponsible for the deaths already attributed to the prospect of Quran burning, he said"No. It just shows the evils of Islam."

Is it a smart thing to put a Mosque so close to WTC ground zero? The constitution says "Freedom of Religion", so they have every right to put it there, even if it offends everyone from coast to coast. The Constitution does not protect against "offending" anyone.
The Imam for that future Mosque claims it's for cultural understanding and peaceful pursuits. Since only a very small percentage of Muslims are actually extremists, and it really is supposed to be a religion of peace, plus the fact that it will be watched, monitored, obvserved and spied on by every police agency, security agency, and terrorist watch group in the country for any militant actions, the chances for anything terrorist related going on there is slim to none.

Could the Mosque be used for subversive terrorist related stuff? Yes, it could. But that's the chance we have to take to keep our freedoms in this country.

Are the Muslim extremists using our own freedoms against us? Are they hiding terrorism behind the sheild of freedom of religion? That's possible too.

Am I tired of pandering to small minded men who use a religion to further their own agenda? You G**DAMN right I am.
Am I sick of the killings, death threats and other threats of destruction and mayhem if non-Muslims do not follow the rules and laws of their religion and do what the Muslims want them to do? You bet your F***KING ass I am.

I am not a Muslim, so why should I have to treat their Quran any different then I would treat the Bible , or the Upanishads, or the Greek Mythologies, or the I Ching...not being a follower of any of those religions? Why should I have to be careful not to make a picture of Mohammad, or keep my women covered head to foot, or not eat bacon?
They are forcing us to observe their religion even though some of us in this world ARE NOT MUSLIM.

We all have to put up with Christian legislation here in the US. Don't beleive me? Marry someone of your gender and be legaly recognized. Do some stem cell research. Try to teach evolution impartially in most states. I sure don't want yet another religon that I don't follow telling me how to live my life.

They have us cowed, scared to death of them. We are afraid to stand up to them because if the Radical Muslims don't get their way, they riot, and kill, and bomb and do their best to terrorize the world. They are like big spoiled bullies who throw temper tantrums because someone won't stand to be bullied.

As someone else has already posted, we are eventually going to have to stand up to these zealot assholes at some point or convert to Islam.
Which will it be for you?

 

[SoCalGNX]

There are some great responses here. I know of a long line that has formed to kick the Florida preachers arse just on general principle. I feel the best way to solve this is to have the preacher and Alibabiginidian (or whatever his name is - the Pres of Iran) get in the Thunderdome, while we chant "two men enter, one man leaves."

 

[exo_doc]

After I read this, all I could say was..."damn".

http://www.theonion.com/articles/hijackers-surprised-to-find-selves-in-hell,1445/

 

[dyingsun]

There are some great responses here. I know of a long line that has formed to kick the Florida preachers arse just on general principle. I feel the best way to solve this is to have the preacher and Alibabiginidian (or whatever his name is - the Pres of Iran) get in the Thunderdome, while we chant "two men enter, one man leaves."

 

[Xylo]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/09/10/balkin.first.amendment/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[Mogwa]

There is no gray zone, no moral ambiguity here. Americans must never burn books, no matter how offensive they may be.