born again

[TalkingMeatSuit]

Has anyone had an experience that makes them think reincarnation might be a valid concept?

I can't say that I believe in this one way or the other. But I have had a few quirky, fleeting impressions.

First, whenever I see a country field (particularly with an old-style mansion on it), when the sun strikes a certain way, I feel myself momentarily transported to another time and place. It's almost as if I'm just on the verge of remembering something, but then can't.

As a child, I had these recurring dreams about being stabbed in my lower back... Finally, one day recently, I was dozing a bit while staring up at some tree limbs against a sunny sky. I could almost remember being a Confederate soldier dying out in the woods.

Confabulation. Gibberish. Maybe. I don't know.

Then I watched a PBS documentary about the Minoans. I've always had a certain fear of tidal waves... The show made a profound impression on me (like I had a personal connection with the subject).

Nothing. Nonsense. Maybe. I don't know.

I did a past life hypnosis last year out of curiosity after reading a book on the subject. I'd never been hypnotized and didn't know what to expect. At the time I was fairly Agnostic on the matter.

Turns out I had no trouble at all getting hypnotized. The farther into the session, the more intense the entire experience was. It felt very real - there were waves of emotion coming over me at different points. I was crying without even realizing it. The life that I theoretically saw / experienced explained a number of things about my current life. It sounds ridiculous, and I personally wouldn't believe it unless I experienced it, but I was stilling "downloading" for 30-45 minutes after the session, seeing and feeling various scenes from the same life I was going through.

Now - was I experiencing an aspect of my mind that was simply filling in blanks for the entire process? Could I have been experiencing some form of genetic memory / instinctive cultural archetype while under an altered state? Possibly, quite possibly. Could Occam's razor apply here? Quite possible as well.

 

[Polterwurst]

I did a past life hypnosis last year out of curiosity after reading a book on the subject. I'd never been hypnotized and didn't know what to expect. At the time I was fairly Agnostic on the matter.

Turns out I had no trouble at all getting hypnotized.

I've heard that quite often from friends and relatives who had themselves hypnotized (mostly as part of a show hypnotist's performance). Although "hypnotizablity" seems to vary a lot from individual to individual, the degree of belief or disbelief in hypnosis doesn't seem to be the determinig factor.

Maybe sometimes in hypnosis shows, it's only the subject playing along, but when can you have, for example, dentistry under hypnosis, that shows there is really something happening out of the ordinary.

One very strange hypnosis experience I read in the late Michael Talbot's book "The Holographic Universe". He wrote that he saw a relative being hypnotized so that he wouldn't be able to see one of the other persons in the room. The hypnotist then held a watch behind the back of the "invisible" person and the subject was able to read the time (or an inscription, I'm not quite sure). Allegedly, the participants could not have been accomplices of the hypnotist, they were both relatives of the author.

The farther into the session, the more intense the entire experience was. It felt very real - there were waves of emotion coming over me at different points. I was crying without even realizing it. The life that I theoretically saw / experienced explained a number of things about my current life.

So you were aware of everything that was going on (inside your mind and in the room)?

It sounds ridiculous, and I personally wouldn't believe it unless I experienced it, but I was stilling "downloading" for 30-45 minutes after the session, seeing and feeling various scenes from the same life I was going through.

Anything you could check on and verify?

Now - was I experiencing an aspect of my mind that was simply filling in blanks for the entire process? Could I have been experiencing some form of genetic memory / instinctive cultural archetype while under an altered state? Possibly, quite possibly. Could Occam's razor apply here? Quite possible as well.

The theory seems to be that the lack of a controlling and filtering consciousness under hypnosis opens up the greater "realm" of the subconscious. I personally think that there's not only memory banks there but also unrestrained creativity. So that you may be able to remember things better on the one hand (which has been used with some success in criminal investigations, but cannot count as evicence in court AFAIK) but on the other, if you think you are missing a memory or the hypnotist asks a leading question, imagination, now unrestrained by social conventions and norms, might take over.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think the results of "past life regression hypnosis" might be a mixture of real "memory fragents" (such as Ufology and I discussed earlier in this thread, uttered by small children) and some more or less large bits of imagination. Sometimes these memories can even be verified. Where they come from can probably only be speculated, not determined by science.

I would rule out genetic memory, because often images turn up that seem to show the alleged "former self" dying. How could something like that be passed on genetically?

Thanks for relating that experience. Very interesting.

 

[Randall]

Has anyone had an experience that makes them think reincarnation might be a valid concept?

The validity of the concept can be ascertained by examining the initial premise. No experience is necessary. Reincarnation as popularly interpreted ( The belief that someone living is actually someone else from a past life ) is flawed from the very start. The reasons are discussed in previous posts. At best, the phenomenon only represents memory transference by some as of yet unidentified mechanism.

 

[TalkingMeatSuit]

One very strange hypnosis experience I read in the late Michael Talbot's book "The Holographic Universe". He wrote that he saw a reative being hypnotized so that he wouldn't be able to see one of the other persons in the room. The hypnotist then held a watch behind the back of the "invisible" person and the subject was able to read the time (or an inscription, I'm not quite sure). Allegedly, the participants could not have been accomplices of the hypnotist, they were both relatives of the author.

Wow, that is pretty wild! If true, it really makes "The Matrix" type theories seem more possible.

So you were aware of everything that was going on (inside your mind and in the room)?

My eyes were closed for the entire thing and I was in a comfortable position reclined on a couch. The hypnotist that I used basically spent a long time getting me into a super calm state, had me visualize a series of events involving going down some stairs, opening a door (simplifying it very much here), etc. I wasn't a zombie that you could tell to cluck like a chicken. I suppose I can liken it most to a heavy "zoning out". Do you ever just daydream to the point of not even being that aware of what's going on around you? Or get in your car and get lost in thought, then all of a sudden you realize that you're already at your destination? Imagine that combined with extreme relaxation and a focus on the inner senses. So, no, I wasn't really aware of what was going on in the room around me, and there wasn't anything going on anyway other than two people sitting and talking quietly.

The hypnotist was fairly objective IMO, and gave me a long amount of time in between questions / commands to speak freely. I've tried some recorded hypnosis mp3's and such, but the pace always seemed too fast for me.

Anything you could check on and verify?

Nothing other than the fact that there were monasteries in Spain in the 1300's due north of where modern day Barcelona is on a map. There's not much by way of the names of the everyday people. I saw this on a map from above inside my head, I suppose with what they call the "mind's eye" after being asked "where are you?". This isn't too surprising of a thing for me to visualize though - I've been a geography buff since my Mom bought me a globe as a little boy. Later this year (after I do a couple other mind-expanding experiences that I plan to post about afterwards) I will schedule a couple more, longer, sessions. I'm hoping that it will be easier to do now that I know the routine. Out of all the people I saw around me at different parts of the experience I only recognized 2 of them from my current life. If anything, it's relaxing and entertaining.

I've read accounts of people allegedly being able to remember their name and rank from WW1 along with other instances that had a record to back them up though. Again, there's no way to scientifically prove jack, but it's interesting nonetheless. Who even knows if I was accurate in what I was seeing?

I guess what I'm saying is that I think the results of "past life regression hypnosis" might be a mixture of real "memory fragents" (such as Ufology and I discussed earlier in this thread, uttered by small children) and some more or less large bits of imagination. Sometimes these memories can even be verified. Where they come from can probably only be speculated, not determined by science.

This makes sense to me. The mysteries of life are fascinating, but frustratingly unquantifiable.

I would rule out genetic memory, because often images turn up that seem to show the alleged "former self" dying. How could something like that be passed on genetically?

Perhaps this is just part of the experience in which imagine fills in the blanks for you as you had just mentioned? I will say though that watching myself standing outside of myself after I died of a heart attack was bizarre and oddly emotional. What perspective would you even call that? The whole thing is a mindf*ck in many ways.

 

[TalkingMeatSuit]

The validity of the concept can be ascertained by examining the initial premise. No experience is necessary. Reincarnation as popularly interpreted ( The belief that someone living is actually someone else from a past life ) is flawed from the very start.

Well, at least you're open-minded about things lol. I wouldn't give any credence to many of the theories I entertain had I not made a guinea pig out of myself, which doesn't sound like your cup of tea

 

[Polterwurst]

Thanks for answering my questions and for the detailed description of your session.

I suppose I can liken it most to a heavy "zoning out". Do you ever just daydream to the point of not even being that aware of what's going on around you? Or get in your car and get lost in thought, then all of a sudden you realize that you're already at your destination? Imagine that combined with extreme relaxation and a focus on the inner senses.

I guess we're getting into quite a few "self-hypnosis sessions" every day. I wonder if that "zoning out" is akin to what psychics or trance mediums are doing and if one could control these day-to-day self-induced hypnosis sessions better. Could be useful for remembering things or do some (cautious) consciousness experimentation.

Nothing other than the fact that there were monasteries in Spain in the 1300's due north of where modern day Barcelona is on a map. There's not much by way of the names of the everyday people.

That's a start. I don't want to urge you into a direction you wouldn't want to go, but maybe you could keep digging...

Later this year (after I do a couple other mind-expanding experiences that I plan to post about afterwards)(...)

Yup, keep us posted. Much appreciated.

(@Ufology) Well, at least you're open-minded about things lol.

He is. Check out our discussion in this thread a few pages back.

 

[Randall]

Well, at least you're open-minded about things lol. I wouldn't give any credence to many of the theories I entertain had I not made a guinea pig out of myself, which doesn't sound like your cup of tea

Thanks for not getting me wrong. I do agree that phenomena exist that have yet to be explained. People certainly do have experiences. It's just that I'm not as quick as others to jump to conclusions about the ultimate nature of those experiences. And actually I'm always interested in hearing about them. It's one of the reasons I'm here.

 

[TalkingMeatSuit]

Thanks for not getting me wrong. I do agree that phenomena exist that have yet to be explained. People certainly do have experiences. It's just that I'm not as quick as others to jump to conclusions about the ultimate nature of those experiences. And actually I'm always interested in hearing about them. It's one of the reasons I'm here.

If that is the case than hopefully you can accept my apology for misunderstanding you. Sorry mate.

 

[Polterwurst]

Just found this short video about reincarnation research, for anyone who's interested

It has Dr Jim Tucker talking about James Leininger, a very interesting and IMO credible case.

There's also a case which I was totally unaware of. A woman from Belgium who says she remembers the all too short life Anne Frank.

although she was "only" one of millions, Anne Frank's photo and diary have become mabe the symbol for what we germans did when we allowed a bunch of cold blooded murderers and psychopaths to rule our country.

For me, that makes the subject of someone who claims to "have been her" in a past life all the more touchy and suspicious, and I'm actually more than sceptical when people claim to have been some historical figure or celebrity.

Here's the full version of the interview shown in part in the video above:

 

[Oakenwulf]

There's also a case which I was totally unaware of. A woman from Belgium who says she remembers the all too short life Anne Frank.
Anne Frank's photo and diary have become mabe the symbol for what we germans caused when we allowed a bunch of cold blooded murderers and psychopaths to rule our country, although she was "only" one of millions. For me, that makes the subject of someone who claims to "have been her" in a past life all the more touchy and suspicious, and I'm actually more than sceptical when people claim to have been some historical figure or celebrity.

any other interesting cases of reborn celebrities or historical figures? love to see a claimed born again vlad drakul, or someone from earlier

 

[Polterwurst]

Well, probably too many to count. But as far as I know, nothing worth looking at. There was a bunch of homeless guys in the UK who said they were the reborn king Arthur and his knights of the round table. And there's probably at least a dozen people claiming to have been Napoleon Bonaparte, Cleopatra, Jesus, Elvis etc. in a past life and quite probably some Vlad Tepes wannabes too, at any given time. But I'm not going to google them, because they are probably 99.9% deluded, hoaxes and generally a waste of time.

 

[Oakenwulf]

Well, probably too many to count. But as far as I know, nothing worth looking at. There was a bunch of homeless guys in the UK who said they were the reborn king Arthur and his knights of the round table. And there's probably at least a dozen people claiming to have been Napoleon Bonaparte, Cleopatra, Jesus, Elvis etc. in a past life and quite probably some Vlad Tepes wannabes too, at any given time. But I'm not going to google them, because they are probably 99.9% deluded, hoaxes and generally a waste of time.

true, but how would one prove they really were that of the past returned? I could rattle off false memories and events from history to make it sound convincing more than others like a cold reading.

 

[Oakenwulf]

true, but how would one prove they really were that of the past returned? I could rattle off false memories and events from history to make it sound convincing more than others like a cold reading.

or how about this I stumbled across, one that is a ascended past god, has anyone been on the experience project site here?
Past Life Recall Thanks To Spirit Guide : I Am An Indigo Child Story & Experience

 

[Polterwurst]

true, but how would one prove they really were that of the past returned?

Who would even want to prove that? As I said, I don't know of one such case that's not easy to debunk. I mean, the knights of the round table? They probably didn't even exist. Napoleon, Cleopatra, Jesus? As you say, anyone could become so obsessed with these characters and rattle off claims mixed with historical knowledge etc. Mostly, these people are simply deluded.

As for the alleged Anne Frank reincarnation above, I've just finished watching the full interview, but I'll have to dig deeper into the case before I can come to any judgement. She doesn't come across as obviously deluded, though. I'll probably even have to read the book she wrote when she came out with the claim.

Actually I'm quite enraged at the moment. Not so much at her claim but at the fact that I've never heard about the case in german media, although it's not that new. I mean, they say that the last surviving relative of Anne Frank has seemingly announced that he believes her. That should get some media coverage, you'd think. But no, nothing.

or how about this I stumbled across, one that is a ascended past god, has anyone been on the experience project site here?
Past Life Recall Thanks To Spirit Guide : I Am An Indigo Child Story & Experience

Sorry "Indigo Child", "Spirit Guide", I'm allergic to terms like these, and no I've not been to their project site nor will I be going there.

 

[Oakenwulf]

well I'm sure that if one really did come back and had memories, even I would not want the world to know, if I was the Buddha for example, I wouldn't even reveal myself to anyone anyway. As far as for the Frank survivor, I would like to know more about this claim just for curiosity.

 

[TalkingMeatSuit]

I wouldn't give much credit to claims of anyone claiming to be someone famous. It's too easy to know facts about the person. I recall having read of a few cases where there was an alleged past life identity confirmation.

One I was able to find online, in this clip from a book called Flipside, in which the author is interviewing a guy named Dr Michael Newton who has written several books on the topic of past life regression (what I read was interesting but pretty far out at times), claims to have spent a few decades of his practice on it.

What was your first past life regression?

... I'd get calls, "May I come for a past life regression?" I'd say "No, I'm traditional, not involved with 'new age' thinking."

But then a client asked if I could see him about pain he was feeling in his side. He'd been troubled since childhood, and doctors said it was psychosomatic - they'd done x-rays and could find no physical symptoms. They told him he should see a psychiatrist. When he came, I couldn't find any earthly origins at all, so I gave him the command "Go to the origin of this pain."

Well, he jumped into the life of a soldier in World War 1, when he was a British Sergeant and was being bayoneted. I couldn't believe it; this fellow was lying on the couch groaning while I was more interested in verifying if it was real - asking him the British unit he claimed to be with and a number of other facts - instead of desensitizing this horrible trauma he was going through. Eventually I did do that.

He called a few days later to say "There's no more pain, thank you." Well that didn't satisfy me, so I contacted the British war office and the Imperial Museum in London to find out if this British Sergeant ever existed and sure enough he died in 1916. From that case, I began taking past life clients. So I came kicking and screaming into this movement.

 

[andymcfly]

I suggest reading The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying either you are an atheist or not. It casts som very interesting perspectives on this thought experiment.

“There would be no chance to get to know death at all ...if it happened only once.”
― Sogyal Rinpoche

 

[Polterwurst]

I really wished parents in my country would have the guts. Not only to tell the story but to listen to the kid in the first place instead of shushing them up at the first strange remark.

Yeah, maybe there is a little bit of a need to be recognized involved, yes, probably it's not good for the child to be exposed to the public like that, but I think the conclusion of this clip is right: this shouldn't be withheld from the public.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I recall one such case where the child was able to describe details of past life death as a fighter pilot in WWII. Much too young to be aware of these details. Fascinating stuff.

 

[Polterwurst]

I recall one such case where the child was able to describe details of past life death as a fighter pilot in WWII.

That's James Leininger. I posted a video about the case earlier in this thread, but here is a more recent video (an "update" from 2012)

EDIT Just found an interview with the family from 2013. I guess it's interesting to compare the story over time (which IMO hasn't changed). Like my cousin, who grew more and more removed from the things he said as a kid, James seems to look at the whole affair with much more distance now (in most of the cases reported by Stevenson and Tucker, the "memories" begin to fade around ages 6 to 8):

And maybe someone more skeptical than me should look at this... am I biased or does he actually resemble the photo of James Houston much more now?