Billionaires convinced we live in Matrix... Fund scientists to break us out...

[victimized]

Not true. Lots of life on this planet can reproduce asexually.

And we are not a part of that condition, yet scientists are studying and trying to claim ownership to the evolution of this condition...yet this state has no evolution status. The higher organic life procreates by the sexual condition.

One of the reasons the occult scientist ignores this information is due to the fact of cloning, yet both parents had sex to produce the animal presence, and the animal exists in its own complete animal DNA information. The animal also exists as 2 bodies of its own self, not one.

Another review about the scientific community and their study of consciousness and cell development, also relates to the sexual act. Sexual procreation causes many mutative and sick human lives to be born......yet the data does not exist without this condition enabling the mutative information to exist.

Therefore when Nature and human life began to be re-attacked by the experimental UFO study condition as a concept of human and animal creation by an alien ancestor, it was due to the consideration that the human data/genetics related to all forms of disorders and diseases. Is it any wonder that the healthy animal and human nature then depicted mutative disorder attacks without the conception/inception?

The truth of information existing as data is 2 human lives, healthy and living as a male and female adult as a consideration of true data, for the sexual act is simply a choice, not a creative condition.

Is it any wonder that our ancient spiritual brother hated occultists due to the way you review information, to seek you out and murdered you?

 

[victimized]

I respectfully disagree. There may be a lot of evidence, but there's nothing substantive ( IMO ). Everything I've seen is either misinterpreted, or theoretical, or vague, or based of statistical analysis, or new agey woo.

Yes. I've already looked at Hoffman's stuff and his work has potential if we create conscious AIs, but it doesn't contribute to how consciousness comes about in the first place. His ideas appear to assume consciousness as extant in his initial premise.

Yes I've been through it and more on the massively long Consciousness thread and it all distills down toward consciousness being a product of brain function. The rest falls away for the reasons already stated above.

Let's clear this one up now too then: The argument "Consciousness Arises Outside The Brain", and the argument "The Non-Computability of Consciousness" are entirely separate concepts that appear to be conflated here. Sir Roger Penrose also makes a convincing case that consciousness is not a computational construct, and strictly speaking, I tend to agree. He also seems to agree that it's still the brain that's responsible. I tend to agree with that too, which is why I don't believe that consciousness is necessarily simply a matter of raw processing power. Something else is going on. We're not sure exactly what, but all good evidence points to the brain as where.

Sir Roger Penrose On Consciousness - A brief Introduction

​

There have been some criticisms of the microtubule theory on the grounds that the quantum effects would not be far reaching enough to interact with other microtubules and the larger synaptic structures of the brain so as to produce the symbiotic relationship we experience between our sensory and memory systems and consciousness. However that sort of thing is getting out of my depth, and from what I can tell, the depth of most scientists as well. However it's this kind of effort that I think will eventually lead to the answers we're looking for. Personally, I tend to think that the gap Penrose speaks of in QM where consciousness is concerned, is that consciousness is another fundamental in addition to the 4 known fundamental forces of nature.

You say mathematics represents an actual physical presence?

You then imply that mathematics created the organic life form all by itself?

To consider the review of our life history versus a mind concept that wants new resourcing.

We began as a human life form of 2 parents, a male and a female. We ate, drank, had sexual procreation, created the new lives, the life condition supported a mutual living condition. NO SCIENCE.

Eventually the male human sought information for science, due to an inherited condition that his consciousness advised him that he owns.....he believes he is the all knowing being, the creator of the Universe and his mind owns....corresponds with and exists because of the Universe. (his own thought about concepts, concepts that were fed back to his mind)....so he told himself about himself, which is evidently not real.

Yet I state an observation.

You exist because your parents had sex....you think and review information because you were indoctrinated into the belief of this information.

When you review your own living conditions and then witness your own death as a human being, you are advised. We know what we know...we have sex, the human is conceived by 2 organic adult human lives, the baby grows and becomes an adult.....the child normally witnesses the death of its parents, and therefore advised itself that it dies. Fundamentally you do not exist unless someone has sexual intercourse. So all human kind would non exist if sexual intercourse stopped.

We therefore know by this self advised condition and personal thought about condition that animals are not our bodies. They exist all by their own selves procreating their own species. We see them live and die also...therefore the information states...that if no sexual procreation happened all forms of the higher life would desist on Earth.

As this is the data of the review as a consideration of self, which is what you are supposedly considering, what are you actually arguing about.....are you still trying to infer that you exist elsewhere in some other condition, because your own mind believes itself to be in contact with the Creator?

If you think about what you infer, the atmosphere a created self owned body was once hot gases, became cold gases, so transmits information to say it owns a status of change. You think of your own self in a condition of change....sexual cell condition interaction, a child, an adult, then death. When you think about your own self, you do not include your parents who actually created you. Therefore the human male is not considering the data of his own self and replaces the atmospheric body as his parent.

If he concluded his own aware status that is currently being fed back to him via unnatural and artificial signals of the UFO condition, then this would be a correct consideration of his own person not considering himself.

If you thought about what you consider, the atmospheric body is known to your person as an interactive condition. The atmosphere and the photon records your image/voice and then feeds back this advice. Is this the reason why you keep assuming that you exist beyond your own person in a creator state?

 

[Jeff Davis]

I respectfully disagree. There may be a lot of evidence, but there's nothing substantive ( IMO ). Everything I've seen is either misinterpreted, or theoretical, or vague, or based of statistical analysis, or new agey woo.

Yes. I've already looked at Hoffman's stuff and his work has potential if we create conscious AIs, but it doesn't contribute to how consciousness comes about in the first place. His ideas appear to assume consciousness as extant in his initial premise.

Yes I've been through it and more on the massively long Consciousness thread and it all distills down toward consciousness being a product of brain function. The rest falls away for the reasons already stated above.

Let's clear this one up now too then: The argument "Consciousness Arises Outside The Brain", and the argument "The Non-Computability of Consciousness" are entirely separate concepts that appear to be conflated here. Sir Roger Penrose also makes a convincing case that consciousness is not a computational construct, and strictly speaking, I tend to agree. He also seems to agree that it's still the brain that's responsible. I tend to agree with that too, which is why I don't believe that consciousness is necessarily simply a matter of raw processing power. Something else is going on. We're not sure exactly what, but all good evidence points to the brain as where.

Sir Roger Penrose On Consciousness - A brief Introduction

​

There have been some criticisms of the microtubule theory on the grounds that the quantum effects would not be far reaching enough to interact with other microtubules and the larger synaptic structures of the brain so as to produce the symbiotic relationship we experience between our sensory and memory systems and consciousness. However that sort of thing is getting out of my depth, and from what I can tell, the depth of most scientists as well. However it's this kind of effort that I think will eventually lead to the answers we're looking for. Personally, I tend to think that the gap Penrose speaks of in QM where consciousness is concerned, is that consciousness is another fundamental in addition to the 4 known fundamental forces of nature.

So, in the end, well apart from the very real and just as solid evidential case presented for the the fundamental nature of consciousness, a case that a very real portion of the neuroscientific community do in fact side with, in your opinion the case for brain produced consciousness is the preferred scenario. I respectfully disagree. I fully realize, as would any logical minded individual considering the issue, that your opinion bears out not one shred of greater value than my own. The only thing that two gentleman can do, as is very often the case in the real scientific realm, is respectfully agree to disagree. Such is the nature of theoretical science.

 

[Red]

And we are not a part of that condition, yet scientists are studying and trying to claim ownership to the evolution of this condition...yet this state has no evolution status. The higher organic life procreates by the sexual condition.

Nope. Simple organisms continue to evolve. Bacteria become antibiotic resistant because of evolution. Even the flu virus is constantly changing.

Is it any wonder that our ancient spiritual brother hated occultists due to the way you review information, to seek you out and murdered you?

What? Are you implying that I should be murdered? A little over the top, don't you think? Besides, I don't believe in "our ancient spiritual brother."

 

[Randall]

So, in the end, well apart from the very real and just as solid evidential case presented for the the fundamental nature of consciousness, a case that a very real portion of the neuroscientific community do in fact side with, in your opinion the case for brain produced consciousness is the preferred scenario. I respectfully disagree. I fully realize, as would any logical minded individual considering the issue, that your opinion bears out not one shred of greater value than my own. The only thing that two gentleman can do, as is very often the case in the real scientific realm, is respectfully agree to disagree. Such is the nature of theoretical science.

I have said a number of times that consciousness appears to be something fundamental. That doesn't mean it can't be something produced by the brain. So I'm not sure what facet of this issue you think we're disagreeing on.

 

[Randall]

Nope. Simple organisms continue to evolve. Bacteria become antibiotic resistant because of evolution. Even the flu virus is constantly changing. What? Are you implying that I should be murdered? A little over the top, don't you think? Besides, I don't believe in "our ancient spiritual brother."

Hey Red, IMO who and/or what "victimized" is doesn't deserve any attention here and its content should be moved by the mods to some appropriate sector of the forum reserved for such nonsense. I suggest using the ignore feature.

 

[Jeff Davis]

I have said a number of times that consciousness appears to be something fundamental. That doesn't mean it can't be something produced by the brain. So I'm not sure what facet of this issue you think we're disagreeing on.

When the word "fundamental" is used in context with contemporary consciousness research, it's typically used to denote that consciousness is being proposed as a fundamental property of any and all matter. When one wants to associate consciousness solely with the brain, it's referred to as emergent.

Is Consciousness Fundamental? | Closer to Truth

 

[victimized]

Nope. Simple organisms continue to evolve. Bacteria become antibiotic resistant because of evolution. Even the flu virus is constantly changing.


What? Are you implying that I should be murdered? A little over the top, don't you think? Besides, I don't believe in "our ancient spiritual brother."

I am stating a reviewed condition that humanity owned, as spiritual minded human awareness versus the evil occultist conversion attack condition...artificial UFO and alien manifestation.

AI called artificial intelligence.

The ancient occultist review was warned about considering artificial information stating it was evil, caused an evil mind and then fed back a greater amount of negated atmospheric information. This causes the human self to become an eviler presence.

Our ancient spiritual brother advised our occult brother with spiritual advice, and data to prove him wrong. He ignored the spiritual advice and then went about murdering everyone who contested him.

Eventually the prophetic calculations proved correct in the future attacks by the use and application of the ancient building technique...the levitation of stone.

He then became the occult spiritual self who decided to murder everyone who was applying occultism, only because he was attacked himself. The only time an occultist/elitist considers to destroy another human life is due to his own life being threatened.

So our spiritual brother decided to support the occult realization and joined in the Holy war to seek out the occultist practicing conversion, which is what the historical evidence attests.

The occultist giving advice to the occultist told his own self that his mind becomes destroyed as atmospheric conditions irradiate his mind and his personal life condition becomes a self destructive nature. This was why they decided to seek out the individuals who would not listen to the advice and who ignored the real data that proved that the occultism was attacking and destroying life on Earth.

 

[victimized]

When the word "fundamental" is used in context with contemporary consciousness research, it's typically used to denote that consciousness is being proposed as a fundamental property of any and all matter. When one wants to associate consciousness solely with the brain, it's referred to as emergent.

Is Consciousness Fundamental? | Closer to Truth

Just another mind scientific quote of an unintelligent purpose.

The organic life interacts in a natural condition that is already reviewed as a supportive system of self interacting life forms. The natural condition is natural without it being associated to a consideration of data to manipulate.

The occultist scientist is wrong about consciousness, only because he wants to own and manipulate consciousness as if it is a machine.

 

[mike]

To put what they suspect and how they are looking in simple terms

Think of your TV as a simulated reality, it seems like the news reporter is in your room speaking to you, but as you get closer and closer to the screen you can see the pixels, these are if you like, a cheat a shortcut. The resolution of TV pixels is good enough for a simulation.
Obviously if you were in the studio you could get really really close to the news anchor and not see pixels.

Thats what they are looking for as proof we live in a simulation, issues with resolution at the microscale

Learning the Truth
That changed in 2007 when John D. Barrow, professor of mathematical sciences at Cambridge University, suggested that an imperfect simulation of reality would contain detectable glitches. Just like your computer, the universe’s operating system would need updates to keep working.
As the simulation degrades, Barrow suggested, we might see aspects of nature that are supposed to be static — such as the speed of light or the fine-structure constant that describes the strength of the electromagnetic force — inexplicably drift from their “constant” values.
Last year, Beane and colleagues suggested a more concrete test of the simulation hypothesis. Most physicists assume that space is smooth and extends out infinitely. But physicists modeling the early universe cannot easily re-create a perfectly smooth background to house their atoms, stars and galaxies. Instead, they build up their simulated space from a lattice, or grid, just as television images are made up from multiple pixels.
The team calculated that the motion of particles within their simulation, and thus their energy, is related to the distance between the points of the lattice: the smaller the grid size, the higher the energy particles can have. That means that if our universe is a simulation, we’ll observe a maximum energy amount for the fastest particles. And as it happens, astronomers have noticed that cosmic rays, high-speed particles that originate in far-flung galaxies, always arrive at Earth with a specific maximum energy of about 1020 electron volts.
The simulation’s lattice has another observable effect that astronomers could pick up. If space is continuous, then there is no underlying grid that guides the direction of cosmic rays — they should come in from every direction equally. If we live in a simulation based on a lattice, however, the team has calculated that we wouldn’t see this even distribution. If physicists do see an uneven distribution, it would be a tough result to explain if the cosmos were real.

Do We Live in the Matrix? | DiscoverMagazine.com

This would also be consistant with my post biological hypothesis which ive posted here many times before. The transition between native biological consciousness and post biological substrate independant reality may very well include a simulation phase to gently ease the mind into its new reality

 

[victimized]

To put what they suspect and how they are looking in simple terms

Think of your TV as a simulated reality, it seems like the news reporter is in your room speaking to you, but as you get closer and closer to the screen you can see the pixels, these are if you like, a cheat a shortcut. The resolution of TV pixels is good enough for a simulation.
Obviously if you were in the studio you could get really really close to the news anchor and not see pixels.

Thats what they are looking for as proof we live in a simulation, issues with resolution at the microscale

Learning the Truth
That changed in 2007 when John D. Barrow, professor of mathematical sciences at Cambridge University, suggested that an imperfect simulation of reality would contain detectable glitches. Just like your computer, the universe’s operating system would need updates to keep working.
As the simulation degrades, Barrow suggested, we might see aspects of nature that are supposed to be static — such as the speed of light or the fine-structure constant that describes the strength of the electromagnetic force — inexplicably drift from their “constant” values.
Last year, Beane and colleagues suggested a more concrete test of the simulation hypothesis. Most physicists assume that space is smooth and extends out infinitely. But physicists modeling the early universe cannot easily re-create a perfectly smooth background to house their atoms, stars and galaxies. Instead, they build up their simulated space from a lattice, or grid, just as television images are made up from multiple pixels.
The team calculated that the motion of particles within their simulation, and thus their energy, is related to the distance between the points of the lattice: the smaller the grid size, the higher the energy particles can have. That means that if our universe is a simulation, we’ll observe a maximum energy amount for the fastest particles. And as it happens, astronomers have noticed that cosmic rays, high-speed particles that originate in far-flung galaxies, always arrive at Earth with a specific maximum energy of about 1020 electron volts.
The simulation’s lattice has another observable effect that astronomers could pick up. If space is continuous, then there is no underlying grid that guides the direction of cosmic rays — they should come in from every direction equally. If we live in a simulation based on a lattice, however, the team has calculated that we wouldn’t see this even distribution. If physicists do see an uneven distribution, it would be a tough result to explain if the cosmos were real.

Do We Live in the Matrix? | DiscoverMagazine.com

This would also be consistant with my post biological hypothesis which ive posted here many times before. The transition between native biological consciousness and post biological substrate independant reality may very well include a simulation phase to gently ease the mind into its new reality

Why?

The human male owns only what the human male owns, his own life presence. His own life is supported by other conditions, which he personally does not own as a human life, therefore why is he constantly giving values to conditions that his organic self does not own?

Only because he wants to destroy life on Planet Earth. He might argue this review, yet life on Earth demonstrates it physical attack and destruction, as does the Earth stone.

He wants our natural life by his personal considerations to be a dot point matrix, therefore only belonging to Universal creation.

So we should all ask his purpose of this consideration? Why does he consider our life information in this format?

At the moment his brotherhood of occult scientists are considering consciousness as a status of Earth's heavenly atmospheric body called consciousness by his ancient occult self....conditions God and Christ.

He has then supposed that the Satanic presence created Christ, which would make human life the evolved status of Satan. Satan is considered by his occult science self to be the presence in the Universal union.

He wants to own by machine applied conditions a model for all of this information, which is why he has studied the information, given it a status, values and then an ownership of a Universal Creator.

Yet when he considers what he is considering he is imposing that a human male is going to be the Creator/owner of the total of the Universal creation...and it already owns its own evolution. When you read his theories about his own self/intelligence it also states his considerations. He believes he is beyond his own self destruction.

Yet if he was personally removed from life on Earth, the natural organic life would no longer be attacked by his evil minded experiments.

As the Universe has hot Suns that continue to burn, the burning uses the energy that its own body owns. The Universe also demonstrates that gas release continues to cool the Universe. Therefore if the Universe created life on Earth, which demonstrates by archaeological evidence to have existed and lived before millions of years ago by evidence inside of coal, demonstrating that Earth had been incinerated, then their theory is wrong.

Earth has changed its supportive evolved nuclear condition, yet we still live. A huge amount of nuclear dust has been removed as a mass. The organic body simply demonstrates attack and mutations/sickness and illness by the increase of radiation/irradiation/atmospheric fall out. Why is the organic body still in its formed presence, if a supportive condition has altered that belongs to a review of Universal evolution?

What we have all witnessed is a manifesting evil presence of anima-alien the UFO hidden signals emerging as a pixel change, higher radiation/irradiation condition. This form of spirit is witnessed by us all manifesting in the body that organic human life owns as an interactive support....our holy atmosphere.

As this condition emerges, our own life diminishes, as we are advised that it is an attack of the Universal attack condition, unnatural and artificial, UFO and alien.

The only artificial condition happening on Planet Earth is the building of machines in the natural environment that have changed the conditions of the natural environment.

The elite/occult/brotherhood review has always argued against the spiritual manifested origin light review.

The occult review is the universal theory of the Satanic Creator and the spiritual manifested review of life is origin light Creator.

The advice condition of occult changes was named God.

The review of the elite occultist is a real review, they consider our destruction through the acts of Satan. The occultist a brotherhood of males with a changed mind condition all agree in any country to apply nuclear sciences, impose dictatorial conditions to the natural living conditions of humanity. Together they claim ownership of life on Earth. Yet they exist in number and population condition as only a small percentage of the life ownership.

They all agree to apply occult conditions of nuclear conversions that are used as threatening technologies.

After the technology of occultism begins to attack them suddenly they become aware that occultist conditions are being used against them.....phenomena, mind control, mind contact, the UFO manifested conditions, nuclear dust conversions attacking them too. So they then consider to take action against those they believe are the worst occultist on Earth. We currently review the Russian life as this situation is emerging. Yet when the spiritual natural human mind reviews the condition, who is to blame......our occult brother is.

We have lived this type of scenario several times in humanities civilization status.

So once again we are living the threat of the occultist condition, and most of us are innocent of our indoctrinated belief, yet we are the ones who get harmed due to our occult brother's inability to accept that he is the only wrong human mind on Planet Earth.

His strive to own everything as if he is the only one to own everything is why he destroyed/attacked our life before.

As atmospheric feed back is the reason for invention and imaged recorded events of conversion in a status of informed information, the spiritual human mind who never sought occultist information has always existed in human life owning a fed back awareness that is more informed than the occultist mind.

The spiritual information of a human and natural organic manifested existence has a historical imaged mind advice also.

The information stated that creation never previously existed, only a total light presence with androgynous light selves existed. A mistake caused a change to origin light mass, and it lost a sound that eventuated into a space holding the previous mass in created light sound cells O.

When the cooling of the exploded light bodies occurred, empty space was refilled with cold gases. These gases as light sound re-communicated to natural origin light. As the origin light with androgynous spirit selves was altered by the new communications it caused their spiritual presence to manifest into the Nature, which is not of the Universe....the Universe is in fact a contradicted state, a state of opposition to spirit manifestation of the organic Nature.

The history of light information states that the androgynous spirit that caused the mistake eventually manifested as a human male light presence.

He did not want to be held in a lower manifested state and chose to try to convert his own spirit back into a higher light presence. Instead of waiting for his de-manifestation.

Therefore he caused himself to go into a form that he did not personally choose...organic manifestation in the activation of the origin Sun exploding.

So he then irradiated his manifested life and changed natural origin fusion on Planet Earth.

This is the only reason why a human male ever considered himself by self evaluation to be the Creator of the Universe, higher than the Universe and owner of a state that universal union cannot alter. Yet this status is in his highest communication, the communication of his origin self as a light spirit.

The occultist argues that this light spirit exists, yet spiritual manifestation has been a human lived experience ever since we have lived our organic life on Earth. Yet he still disputes that this condition is real in a review.

So we ask him, how then do we have these named values as a consideration of our historical conscious awareness?

His dispute is his own consideration that he can speak about values without owning them personally, and his want is to personally own powers that his own person as a natural organic being does not own.

Ever since he began to review ownership of powers beyond his own person, life continually has been attacked and destroyed by his selfish consideration.

If an occultist wants to own a reason for his unreasonable behavior, then he has his origin story to consider his motivation for self destruction.