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April 20th Show -David Biedny Breakthrough! Questions for D. Ecker and J. Ritzmann

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Z

Zorbov

Paranormal Novice
A truly watershed moment ...Mr. Biedny ... I believe that the comments you made near the end of the show regarding the nature of these phenomena and how they relate to the individuals subjective quest for meaning and on a larger scale how it relates to the development of the species awareness of the true nature of reality ..
to be the most important ones made so far in the history of the show.

I hope that the ParaCast will use your analysis as a springboard to approach the questions re: this topic in a more metaphysical sense.

From my experience ... although the material nature of these things is interesting and has great ramifications to us ... the much more interesting and profound aspects of these phenomena are rooted in the metaphysical realm.

Thank you Mr. Biedny for your courage and the articulate expression of your perspective ...

Anyway .. you'll probably tell me to take a leap because I'm the originator of the "Why are the hosts afraid of the space brother scenario" ... but I want to assure you I have NO religious agenda. It is a metaphysical outlook on reality ... a reality that is based on love ...

A reality that we are all being swept into .. as Mr Biedny says .. at various levels of understanding. Some individuals have more capacity at this time to connect with this new reality ... they are the vanguard. More and more of us will come face to face with these phenomena and the issues they present until at some point the species crosses over enmass to a higher level of mind ... as our evolutionary development for the rest of time will focus on the expanding powers of consciousness. In MY Humble Opinion Only ...

Okay ... I won't go any further with that ...

On to some questions that I have for Don Ecker and Jeff Ritmann ... first .. concerning Don Ecker and Gordon Cooper. Mr. Ecker says that military cameramen captured the footage of a spacecraft landing in the desert and brought the film back to Cooper.. Cooper would like to have viewed it on a projector, but was under orders to send it away by courier as quickly as possible. So ... here's where things don't make sense to me ... Instead ... he pulls the roll of film out ..frame by frame ... not just a few frames ... but enough frames to view the whole incident. So literally he would have pulled the whole film out of the roll! What's the difference between doing this rather than showing it on a projector? I could understand if he rolled out a bit of the tape but the whole thing? Then he would have had to manually reroll it back on the spool ... It would have been easier and faster to just load it on the projector. How fast could the courier get there anyway? So there is a contradiction there to me.

I also have a question re: Mr. Ritzmann's encounter with the "insurance agents".
It also doesn't make sense ... If you are working late at night at a business in a rural area ...would you not be immediately suspicious of anyone knocking at your door late at nite? It's not just late .. it's ridiculously late. Nobody sells insurance at 3 am in the morning or anything else for that matter. It's beyond rational belief isn't it? I would not have opened the door and instead ran for a phone and a weapon. If they did make their way in I would have suspected they had evil intent ... I would not be interested in their supposed "insurance policy" con. I would have asked at least for their business cards pretending to be interested so I could check their identities later. Didn't they leave any brochures? They were showing him different policies ... did Mr Ritzmann follow up at all trying to identify them?

High Strangeness indeed ... In some way I can relate .. because when these things happen .. it seems all logic doesn't apply and you don't do the logical thing ... it's kind of like a dream .... hhmmmm ...
Wouldn't it be nice to control your thoughts ... and your dreams?

I apologize for the misspellings of names in the Post Header ...

Cheers .....Oneness
 
April 20th Show -David Biedny Breakthrough! Questions for D.Eckler and J. Ritzman

Oneness1 said:
I also have a question re: Mr. Ritzmann's encounter with the "insurance agents".
It also doesn't make sense ... If you are working late at night at a business in a rural area ...would you not be immediately suspicious of anyone knocking at your door late at nite?
Click to expand...

Not all the time. The shop I was in was also my father's workplace - a local mechanic shop well known in the area and we had people in as late as midnight and 1am before, with breakdowns on the highway and emergency tows. The lights were on and I guess I assumed it might have been someone looking for help.


Oneness1 said:
It's not just late .. it's ridiculously late. Nobody sells insurance at 3 am in the morning. How could you accept that excuse? It's beyond rational belief isn't it?
Click to expand...

That excuse wasn't accepted as a way to get in. I said it was late and I was getting ready to leave. Essentially they footed their way in the door. Now, that said there's 2 of them, and one of them big. I'm one guy with no weapon. No one made any attempt to grab me or in any other way assault me. I only became suspicious when the larger one was messing with my computer. Then I became nervous, as he was always trying to get behind me. Run out? They'd have had me before I reached the doorframe. And then, run where exactly. I knew if this got ugly, I was fucked. It's all too easy to say what you'd do, unless you're there.

Oneness1 said:
I would not have opened the door and ran for a phone and a weapon. If they did make their way in I would have suspected they had evil intent ... I would not be interested in their supposed "insurance policy" con. I would have asked at least for their business cards pretending to be interested so I could check their identities later. Didn't they leave any brochures? They were showing him different policies ... did Mr Ritzmann follow up at all trying to identify them?
Click to expand...

At the moment I asked for cards, it was stated they'd be back around on their next trip thru the area, they had given them all out I think was the excuse. I don't recall where they said they were based, but the smaller one I think claimed out of state and this was a travel rip to the area, I did ask a couple people in the area who own businesses if anyone had come in asking about insurance, and no one had as far as they knew. I didn't pay much mind to the name of the company as nervous as I was. I don't know what else to say about that. There's a lot of info I *should* have gotten had I not been scared. But I was, and I'm not ashamed of it.

Oneness1 said:
High Strangeness indeed ... In some way I can relate .. because when these things happens .. it seems all logic doesn't apply and you don't do the logical thing ... it's kind of like a dream ....
Click to expand...

I don't label this as high strangeness, nor as some have suggested to I see these two dickheads as "aliens". As I said on the show, they might not have been what I thought. But add up the words, insinuations, following and hour of the night - coupled with the evidence I'd been sent showing up that day? It's too much of a coincidence to me.

So, again, I'm sorry. Thats all I got. It happened, and I can't change it, or add anything to make it seem more plausible to anyone. It's exactly what happened and it was enough to add to the growing pile of reasons to have left the UFO subject publicly for nearly 10 years. I went into my little hole and did work on my own, but did not speak publicly, nor write, attend any meetings, nor blog. David essentially was the one to convince me to get back in. So here I am.
 
April 20th Show -David Biedny Breakthrough! Questions for D.Ecker and J. Ritzmann

Thankyou for a very interesting show.

One question Jef - what did you do with the samples of possible alien blood?

I was suprised no-one raised it during the show.

I always find your experiences very interesting Jef - looking forwards to the book.
 
April 20th Show -David Biedny Breakthrough! Questions for D.Ecker and J. Ritzmann

samtheman said:
Thankyou for a very interesting show.

One question Jef - what did you do with the samples of possible alien blood?
Click to expand...

I gave them to a researcher I respected, along with the story I was given about them. The witness then cut off all contact with me and I was left with a researcher needing more info I couldn't give him. My research partner at the time said he'd made a comment to him that I was being a "flake" about it. Hardly. When you get cut off, youre cut off. Nothing I could do about it, and I did try every means possible to contact the witness. But at the same time, I wanted nothing to do with it after I got the shit scared out of me.

I don't know if he ever did anything with them or not. I saw him at a conference years ago in DC and spoke with him, but I don't remember what he said ever happened with them. I wanna say he either blew them off, or that he said they weren't conclusive of anything (then why did I get a visit?...IF in fact that visit was what I think it was). I honestly don't remember. We really didn't speak much about it, but more about what was going on in life since we'd not spoken in a long time.

I'd think if it was truly anything anomalous, we'd have all heard by now, as that was almost 10 years ago. Maybe it wasn't a substance that couldn't be found any number of places, and therefore not specifically attributable to the subject.
 
April 20th Show -David Biedny Breakthrough! Questions for D.Ecker and J. Ritzmann

Hello Mr. Ritzmann ...

Thanks for the elucidation of the incidence ... and thanks for all the work you are doing and your courage ...

As for myself ... I can't talk about these things with anybody I know .. so it feels good when you can go to the ParaCast and hear people talking about subjects you are very interested in and share experiences you have had.

I truly think there has been great progress made in the interpretation of these things and we are on the edge of some fantastic revelations about ourselves and the world ... so keep up the good work and good luck ...

Cheers ... Oneness
 
April 20th Show -David Biedny Breakthrough! Questions for D.Ecker and J. Ritzmann

Oneness1-
Anytime. If we had more people around like you who asked genuine and legitimate questions/concerns with respect, we'd all be better off.

And, if you ever need to talk, feel free to holler at me. I'm always around.

~Jeff
 
April 20th Show -David Biedny Breakthrough! Questions for D. Ecker and J. Ritzman

Hi, nice show guys. For what it's worth, here are some of my thoughts:

Firstly, I think that Jeff's comment about the fact that the intelligence behind the phenomenon is in complete control of the secrecy and whatever "disclosure" takes place is an important point.

An analogy I can think of would be monkeys in a zoo. Whatever the monkeys might know, it is the zookeeper who's in control of the situation.

But an interesting difference is that we humans make no effort to hide from the monkeys the fact that they are imprisoned, because we know they can't do anything about it. Since the truth is being concealed from us, I suspect this means that if we knew the truth, we could actually change our circumstances! I only have some small idea of what this might mean, but I hope we all know more someday.

Which leads me to some of the criticisms.

David stated (as a fact) that "a greater facility for interfacing with this phenomenon" is the reason certain people are having these paranormal encounters. I think this statement is founded upon assumptions and isn't necessarily the case.

To illustrate a hypothetical example: If a hunter shoots a random deer and tags it and then periodically checks up on it, then should the other animals assume that this individual deer, because of his frequent contact, has a "greater facility" for interfacing with the advanced human intelligence?

If the assumption of a greater facility is true then by following the logical train of thought, if experiencers are having contact primarily because they have some "greater" or more developed internal facility, this means that the intelligence is available out there waiting to contact all of us, and those who do not experience the phenomenon are unable to because of their lesser-developed facility. I don't think the evidence supports this premise, and it also seems to veer dangerously close to the space brothers territory.

If I'm misunderstanding what was being said then just ignore these comments, but I felt that they might be worth mentioning.

It's my thought that those experiencers who do possess some sort of greater internal facility ("psychic" abilities for example) develop them as a *result* of their interaction with the intelligence. In other words, the facility is an effect and not a cause. In many cases I've read, strange paranormal and psychic events happen after the contact, as if it leaves some sort of psychic residue on the individual.

I'd also like to make a comment regarding the idea that spaceships in a secret space program couldn't take off without civilians noticing smoke trails and things like that.

It's actually completely plausible that a spacecraft could take off from earth and no civilians would see it. The area of the earth is 200 million square miles, and the population density is, for the most part, extremely concentrated. There are huge chunks of the planet where no civilians live. I got my first taste of this when I flew over South America last year, but to illustrate further here's a link to a NASA map of the earth with population density information:

http://veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/116/pop_density.jpg
 
in regards to "development of the species", does anyone think that might include vegetarianism ?

i sometimes wonder if the contrast between cattle mutilation and crop circles has any significance.

one food source is manifested in an aspect of uglyness, the other our cereal crops with patterns of beauty.
 
A lot of what David theorized in this segment made sense to me, especially the part about the truth for one person may not be the same as the truth for another person.

The thing that keeps me from taking the leap into the waters of meta-paranormal theory, where all high strangeness comes from a similar place, is the trace evidence cases. Because of my metaphysical background, I can readily accept that the unknowable interracts with each of us, and we have a different relationship with it. This is all fine and dandy on a psychological, Jungian level. But, when rings on the ground glow radioactively, and real pilots die chasing things, etcetera, etcetera, then I am not so keen on accepting this as a purely mystic phenomina.

I know I got pretty much ignored when I suggested writer Grant Morrison for an interview, but Dave and Gene would probably find what he says pretty interesting. Grant, himself an abductee, proposes that aliens and ufos are the earth's antibodies, here to correct imbalances we don't understand. He sees the whole thing in very much a shamanistic way. I suppose it's his role as a comic book writer, chaos magician, and psychonaut that make him less than attractive to a nuts & bolts crowd. That, and his heavy Scottish accent.

I used to think that there was nothing in common between magic(k) and ufology, that a magic and science-based world views couldn't mix. How short sighted of me. Now, not only am I unsure what UFOs are, but I am beginning to think that working magic is an ancient hard science, a way to access and re-program the underlying code of reality. I could speak to this in great detail, but I'll be kind and keep it to myself.
 
April 20th Show -David Biedny Breakthrough! Questions for D. Ecker and J. Ritzman

Scott Story said:
I know I got pretty much ignored when I suggested writer Grant Morrison for an interview, but Dave and Gene would probably find what he says pretty interesting.
Click to expand...

I was going to suggest Grant Morrison as a potential guest to the people at EERIE Radio. I would love to hear him on either program and think it would be really interesting to hear him hold forth on paranormal topics. If I can understand him through the Scottish accent. :)
 
Grant's accent is pretty thick. There are some great youtube videos of him, especially speaking at the Disinformation con. His writings on the subject are fascinating as well.
 
This was by far the best show I've heard yet! David's comments about the true nature of reality really hit home with me. I've often wondered just what we are really missing because we, as physical beings, are mostly limited to just the five senses (psychic/paranormal abilities aside). What else is there all around us?
We consider ourselves to be intelligent, but what if the true reality is that we only are only equivalent to an amoeba's level of intelligence? I know for a fact we do not see the universe as it really is. Think about it. Color is an illusion, there really is no such thing as red or blue or any other color. We only perceive the ugliness of a pastel blue Disco leisure suit because our retina's are designed to pick up only certain wavelengths of light and our brains process that into what we think of as color. And we are missing out on ultraviolet, infrared, and the whole other spectrum of electromagnetic energy constantly bombarding us. If it wasn't for our technology, we'd never know about this whole other hidden part of the universe.
Back to the amoeba analogy, what if a human tried to communicate with an amoeba? Speech is out, written language is out ,Sign language...all these are magnitudes of levels too sophisticated for the little guy. All he knows is heat, cold...light, dark...food, not food. Even if we could somehow manage to make the amoeba aware of our prescence, how could we convey human information in a way it would understand? How in the world could we explain simple things like color? Or softness? Or even the concept of clothing?
What about abstract things like the sun, or houses, or cities?
What about the truly abstract like love, or democracy, or football?
My point is, are we humans at a level of intelligence where we could even begin to understand such things as the UFO phenomena? Or other inexplicable things such as the glowing blue orbs discussed or the thousands of other things people witness on a daily basis that seem to have no rational explaination? Are we just cavemen looking out of the mouth of the cave, watching lightning during a thunderstorm, having no concept at all of meteorology, or static discharge, or electricity?
Perhaps. But I beleive we have the potential to eventually puzzle it out.
Once again, great show, and I look forward to hearing more from you guys!
 
We may have the potential to puzzle out, but it's highly complicated with the aspect of personal perception. Seems like we are always working at cross purposes, one, the seemingly mystical phenomenon, and the other, our perception of it. Somehow, we have to be able to divide in order to conquer.

Since we so whole heartedly relate to our physical existence, we may let it get in the way of what reality may be. In that sense, we're geared toward making everything personal. If we can learn to step out of our reality, maybe we have a chance, but so far, that has proved nothing as yet. Just posed more questions.

I'm not so sure we're suppose to figure it all out. Maybe we're just supposed to wonder. It's very dissatisfying, however.
 
Poi said:
I'm not so sure we're suppose to figure it all out. Maybe we're just supposed to wonder. It's very dissatisfying, however.
Click to expand...

I find mysteries themselves very satisfying, but I've noticed my brain apparently isn't built like others. I love to learn new things and ponder on them. I like looking for relationships to things that have no apparent connections. It's the process of contemplation I suppose I like the most.
Your other comment about "not so sure we're suppose to figure it all out" is interesting. That implies that there is some sort of governing system regarding what humans are able to learn. Which raises the question "Governed by whom or what?" Could this Governor be a more advanced intelligence, or a natural consequence of an evolving intelligence such as our own? In either case, if a human did somehow manage to comprehend and figure it all out that would lead to (for all practical definitions) a "Godhood" of sorts. As insanely sane as he seems, maybe Grant Morrison has something when he states "We are all larvae". Which would lean toward the conclusion that we are just physically/spiritually unable, not prevented, to understand some things just now. Just as the amoeba wouldn't understand average television programs, or even the tele, or what electronics were, or even the human need for entertainment...maybe we can't understand such super abstractions that super intelligences would have. And just as the amoeba has no context for comprehension for human things, we have no context either.
Perhaps there are things all around us, things happening all the time that we just witness the tiniest glimpse of, if at all, that are so far beyond our ability to comprehend, beyond any context we could possibly have at this time, that we just plain don't see them.

Impossibly huge, impossibly fast flying vehicles lighting up the sky over a major city may be a nuts and bolts event, or maybe not. Could that thing in the sky really be from an alien civilization, or is it really from an alternate dimension? Or even from our own future great-to-the-N'th grandchildren here as anthropologists getting firsthand observations of primitive human cultures? And could there really be a connection to such things as ghost activities, or poltergeists, or strange animals prowling about that disappear just as suddenly, or people/boats/planes/autos vanishing, or Men in Black, or the Mothman, or strange looking and acting clouds, just to name a few?
I have to say I'm hooked/obsessed/fascinated by the possibilities, not just the answers, if there are any. I do enjoy a good mystery.

(I never talk like this to anyone I know except my wife, and she just mostly nods her head and politely smiles until I'm done and sticks her nose back in her book. People think I'm nutters as is with out giving them any help. So, please forgive me being longwinded. It's just nice to be able to discuss this with someone.)
 
exo_doc said:
Poi said:
I'm not so sure we're suppose to figure it all out. Maybe we're just supposed to wonder. It's very dissatisfying, however.
Click to expand...

I find mysteries themselves very satisfying, but I've noticed my brain apparently isn't built like others. I love to learn new things and ponder on them. I like looking for relationships to things that have no apparent connections. It's the process of contemplation I suppose I like the most.
Your other comment about "not so sure we're suppose to figure it all out" is interesting. That implies that there is some sort of governing system regarding what humans are able to learn. Which raises the question "Governed by whom or what?" Could this Governor be a more advanced intelligence, or a natural consequence of an evolving intelligence such as our own? In either case, if a human did somehow manage to comprehend and figure it all out that would lead to (for all practical definitions) a "Godhood" of sorts. As insanely sane as he seems, maybe Grant Morrison has something when he states "We are all larvae". Which would lean toward the conclusion that we are just physically/spiritually unable, not prevented, to understand some things just now.
Click to expand...

Interesting comments .... that's kinda the way I look at it too ...that we're like the caterpillar ... slowly breaking through its coccoon into the wonder of the next stage of its development ...which for us is an expansion of awareness, and consciousness. With our new powers of the mind, we'll take flight into a new reality freed from agression, fear, hate, competition and worry.

I know it's possible ... because it happened to me ... albeit for only a short time ... about 20 minutes. But from that moment on I knew ... that if I experienced it .. and who am I ... then it could and should happen to everyone eventually ... There's a faster way of getting there ... and that's love ... for each other at least to begin with. A recognition of the fact that we are all connected and dependant on each other.

How does this apply to UFO's and such ... well ... they are showing us part of that new reality in a very dramatic and undeniable way. It's an evolutionary prod to get us to look at things in a new way ... you don't have to understand it ... just accept it and look forward to further developments. A personal committment of self development will enhance the process ... and it's not that hard ...
Be kind, compassionate, loving and fair as much as you can ...

If or when things get really bad ... (for all of us) ... that would be a good time to try and connect with your concept of a Creator ... at the most basic level ... forget all the dogma ...

Oneness ....
 
exo_doc, I think you're right on with that description - regardless of our vanity, I suspect that we're simply not as advanced as we'd like to believe we are, and there's a very good possibility that the reality behind much of the paranormal is simply beyond any kind of comprehension than we're capable of, as a species at a specific stage of evolution. Perhaps we are indeed "all larvae", with the benefit of shoes and music.

dB
 
April 20th Show -David Biedny Breakthrough! Questions for D. Ecker and J. Ritzman

I think we may not be able to go beyond too. Could be that the end of our road in advancement is the compassionate and loving heart. I've not had a very good handle on that position myself, having had all the answers for a brief two week span many years ago, exo_doc. Heavenly position to experience, but unsustainable, thank you. :frown: For me anyway.

Which would lean toward the conclusion that we are just physically/spiritually unable, not prevented, to understand some things just now.
Click to expand...

But we're savvy enough to comprehend the mystery. I don't think that's a mistake, regardless of who may sit at the controls.

.. they are showing us part of that new reality in a very dramatic and undeniable way. It's an evolutionary prod to get us to look at things in a new way ...
Click to expand...

That's occurred to me too. But I'm getting older. I wanna know know. :D
 
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