Aliens, Overpopulation, and Moore's Law

[scott]

Gene, David, great show (7/1). Richard Dolan asks all the right questions.

Aliens have likely been among us since the beginning, but it does appear they've increased their presence a hundred-fold since the detonation of the atom bomb. And since the population explosion. In 1804 the world had one billion people. A hundred years later, two billion, forty-five more years, four billion, from 1974 to now--just thirty-three years--we grew to six and a half billion. Diminishing resources, third world starvation and poverty, expanding multi-national corporations, and a spiraling number of armed fundamentalists at each other's throats--all on a living planet that cannot grow any larger. If these entities are spreading any kind of awakening for us, they're doing a lousy job. Of course, I mean no disrespect to anyone who sincerely believes these creatures are of goodwill--I hope they are!

There may be factions of aliens--some benevolent, some quite malicious. But beings of such enormous power wouldn't need to trick or coerce if their motives were pure. If on the other hand, they're using us, they would deceive us any way they could. Six and a half billion armed to the teeth could cause them more than a few headaches or at least blow up the planet they probably think is theirs.

I suspect Moore's Law--our technology explosion--which is even ahead of our population explosion, is most disturbing for these creatures. Mogwa's statements, Jeff Ritzman's, and so many others, point to no consistent logic for who they pick, and the participant is left feeling torn apart, violated, terrified. The aliens seem cold, a kind of hive mentality, with no concept of human emotion. Is emotion what they're studying? Could it be they simply cannot predict what we, this primitive violent culture will do with our newer and newer technologies and weapons, and this actually frightens them? There may just be too many of us for them to control, and we could be on the precipice of discovering their form of energy. Are the aliens worrying, "What will this unlimited supply of advancing, unpredictable emotion-bags do to us if they find us, and what will they do to our planet?"

 

[Brian Now]

Gene, David, great show (7/1). Richard Dolan asks all the right questions.

I liked this interview too for the most part. I did find him a little alarmist though...China won't economically destroy one of its best customers, it isn't in their interest. Even if China became the only superpower and the richest nation it still won't....just as the US would find it difficult to survive without the trade it has with much poorer countries like Mexico. Nor will China likely ever go to war directly with the US. Why not you ask? Well, it's simple. While Dolan might have taken nuclear arsenals out of the equation you can be sure that the US and China have not. But one could make the argument that a proxy war could happen in the future.

But back to your point, sorry. I liked how Dolan sort of summarized the evolution of UFO culture. He mentioned how in the 90s we start seeing more of the New Age-ification of ufology like stories of "channeling" alien entities etc. To me, standing on the outside in a way, the stories of channeling benevolent beings from the Pleiades makes as much sense as the classical abduction with medical experiments. Since neither can be proved or disproved how can you decide that there must be something sinister going on? Is it the numbers of negative stories we hear that convinces you it is more real than the Pleiades stuff? To play devil's advocate a little...what if the only people who have it right are the crystal-wearing, perimenopausal white females who let the "alien spirit of universal golden peace" enter their bodies?

 

[scott]

To me, standing on the outside in a way, the stories of channeling benevolent beings from the Pleiades makes as much sense as the classical abduction with medical experiments. Since neither can be proved or disproved how can you decide that there must be something sinister going on? Is it the numbers of negative stories we hear that convinces you it is more real than the Pleiades stuff? To play devil's advocate a little...what if the only people who have it right are the crystal-wearing, perimenopausal white females who let the "alien spirit of universal golden peace" enter their bodies?

Entities of "universal golden peace" would be nice, wouldn't it? If Steven Greer was practicing a genuine communion with ETs, why does he insist on total control of the evidence acquired at his gatherings? Why the secrecy?

I have no personal experience and I'm open to any possibility, but my common sense leans hard with the Stanton Friedman camp (on the Paracast this coming Sun.). These folks continually examine the data and don't see a loving, spiritual connection with UFO phenomena.

Columbus crossed the oceans, but nowadays few can argue the Europeans were more enlightened than the indigenous peoples they slaughtered.

Still, I think these beings are far more worried about us than we need to be about
them.

 

[CapnG]

The aliens seem cold, a kind of hive mentality, with no concept of human emotion. Is emotion what they're studying? Could it be they simply cannot predict what we, this primitive violent culture will do with our newer and newer technologies and weapons, and this actually frightens them?

That's incosistant. Clearly if they know fear then they understand emotions. Ritzman and Strieber (even Sparks) have often commented on their somewhat sardonic sense of humour. The notion that an emotional understanding is somehow a foundation for some sort of empathic common ground is ludicrous. Humans have emotional understanding but that doesn't prevent us from dehumanizing fellow humans and torturing or murdering them. People need to stop thinking of these beings as "superior" because it implies they're "better" somehow and I don't buy that. More advanced maybe but not better.

 

[scott]

The notion that an emotional understanding is somehow a foundation for some sort of empathic common ground is ludicrous. Humans have emotional understanding but that doesn't prevent us from dehumanizing fellow humans and torturing or murdering them.

Well said, CapnG, but I think you may have misunderstood me somewhat. Every sentient creature must know some sort of fear. That one emotion is probably universal. From the abductee accounts that I've observed, it does seem plausible one reason these people are taken is to study their emotions. Ritzman is, I believe, one of the people who wonders about that. If that's true, why? Unless human emotion is unpredictable for them in some way. My wife's moods are unpredictable to the max. Perhaps I'm just projecting here.

And CapnG, who said anything about aliens seeking an "empathic ground?" There doesn't seem to be much evidence for that, other than in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I'm not suggesting they're seeking a better means of communicating--that would be no problem for such advanced beings. Since they apparently have been watching us for millenia--maybe for entertainment as David and Gene say--they would've noticed that our base emotions have changed little, yet our armies, technology, consumption and population create new paradigms every few years. They must be fascinated, I suggest worried, unless the huge numbers of sightings and abductions are all mistakes or hoaxes.

One more thing: Why do you find Sparks credible? I've heard him interviewed three times now, and to me, he sounds utterly deluded. Listen to the shows and how he handles the simplest questions, questions he'd just gone over in his mind thousands of times in order to write his book. I'm not saying he didn't experience something, just that the details don't add up--and he sounds a little crazy.

 

[CapnG]

Unless human emotion is unpredictable for them in some way.

See, there's where I'm drawing a blank. Why do you keep saying "human emotion"? Emotions aren't restricted to humans and they're pretty obvious most of the time. Take dogs for instance. A completely seperate species, totally different from us with whom we can only communicate on a base level yet we have no difficulty understanding their emotions. I think you mean human reactions.

And CapnG, who said anything about aliens seeking an "empathic ground?" There doesn't seem to be much evidence for that, other than in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.

I wasn't suggesting they would be seeking middle ground from us, rather that the implications tend to be the other way around. Further, I think it's simply a human conceit that makes us believe they would be bothered to try.

One more thing: Why do you find Sparks credible?

When did I say I did? I only mentioned him because his story fits the mold, so to speak. Whether that makes his experiences genuine or if he's simply parroting other accounts isn't really something I can comment on.

 

[scott]

Why do you keep saying "human emotion"? Emotions aren't restricted to humans and they're pretty obvious most of the time. Take dogs for instance. A completely seperate species, totally different from us with whom we can only communicate on a base level yet we have no difficulty understanding their emotions. I think you mean human reactions.

Ah, here's where we have something to talk about. I'm contending that through our modes of expression--and perhaps by this you mean "reactions"--we as a species might, just might, be highly unusual. David Biedny jokes the aliens are here to listen to the Beatles. I contend that human emotional intelligence is far more complex than animals and for all we know, the run-of-the-mill alien. Dogs (and I love dogs) are very emotional creatures, but they're predictable. Many humans are as clear as day too. Push a button, they get angry; praise them, they smile. But almost all of us have fine shadings, layers of contradiction, and while many of us are driven to express it through art, virtually everyone seeks to feel it through one art or another--music, books, movies, etc. When we do this, powerful things happen. It's not just entertainment. Hitler inspired his multitudes to commit unspeakable crimes. It wasn't what he said, it was how he said it. The Beatles lifted and captivated a generation, and I would argue, were a force for world peace.

If the aliens have been here a while, they've seen how people will kill and die for their country. This might be strange to them, the notion of a country, the notion of dying for "your country," or "democracy" or "a leader." Think about it. A dog might die for his master or his pack, but not for other packs or his town or an idea. Millions have died and killed for ideas. Our own White House would rather slaughter thousands of our own people, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, than admit a mistake. The Confederacy killed over 360,000 Union soldiers mostly so they could have the right to own other people; six million Jews were killed just for belonging to the Jewish faith; scores of millions were killed in the Soviet Union and China to bring about a more perfect Communist state. An alien culture might find all this passionate carnage baffling. One look at Mutually Assured Destruction--megaton warheads aimed at each other--and you can see how it's not far-fetched to think these entities might be frightened of our willingness--if our right "emotional" buttons are pushed--to destroy everyone and everything for the sake of ideas. Should we tap their energy source or discover their "hiding place," they may not want us to do that to them.

I wasn't suggesting they would be seeking middle ground from us, rather that the implications tend to be the other way around. Further, I think it's simply a human conceit that makes us believe they would be bothered to try.

Totally agree.