A most likely ridiculous idea about the Greys and MIB

[Clifford Smith]

Hi everyone, this is my first post on the forums, and UFOlogy is something I'm only just returning to now as an interest for the first time since I was about 12 (I'm 28 now)... so the ground that I'm going to cover here is most likely very well trodden already, but please indulge me. Also, my thoughts here assume as starting point that Grey aliens and the abduction phenomenon are real, which they may very well not be... but for the purposes of this discussion I'd like to leave that debate for elsewhere.

I was thinking about the Greys and the description of their abduction program by folks like David Jacobs as one that is primarily concerned with the use of our genetic material and reproductive functions. This would seem to suggest (correct me if I'm wrong) that a) the Greys are facing something of a crisis in their own evolution which requires the use of our biology and b) following from this, that our biology shares a special relationship or even kinship with their's. Given that, the extra-terrestrial hypothesis faces problems of how different evolutionary paths separated by light years could produce species so alike and compatible. I understand that there can be many explanations for this, such as that there has been persistent contact between our planet and their's throughout the period of our own evolution at least, or that we aren't on the same family tree at all, bearing only a superficial resemblance/biological kinship with them, but the Greys are just so good at genetics that this isn't an issue for them in the production of hybrids using our reproductive systems and DNA. After all, even we can put salmon genes in tomatoes, right?

I'm willing to entertain those possibilities... but there is also the possibility that they are our descendants who are backing out of an evolutionary cul-de-sac by returning to a turning point in their past and our present/future. This, however, raises the well-known problems of paradoxes.... like what if you abduct and probe your great-great-great grandfather and what-not? Of course the multi-verse theory can overcome this problem, resolving such paradoxes by creating a new-timeline to accommodate them rather than polluting the original one. Or maybe they are our evolutionary descendants, but from an alternate universe in which human evolution occurred at a relatively accelerated pace or in which it took a slightly different turn at some point in the past.

But what if they are our future selves from an alternate universe in which time flows at a relatively faster speed than that of ours? A difference in the speed of time flow between our universes would explain both why they represent a future stage of development for us but at the same time have access to our present (as the "future" has arrived sooner for them than it has for us and thus coexists with our present), and why the pace of their program and their dealings with us seem to have progressed so slowly (the 65 years for us since 1947 being perhaps only a quarter of that period or less for them). If we increase the ratio even further it would also explain their persistent awkwardness in dealing with us on a cultural/social level... particularly as manifested in the MIB phenomena... who apparently continue to dress like G-Men, drive outdated sedans in pristine condition, and have such a difficult time responding to novel circumstances or reactions in their dealings with us (assuming of course that the MIB are related in some way, perhaps as hybrids, to the Greys). I mean, if they were the hyper-intelligent race then surely they would have learnt our ways a bit better over the decades otherwise... but if every time they jump back and forth from our timeline to their's we have changed in unexpected ways and in what is for them an accelerated manner, then it would be hard to get their bearings in that way.

Of course this is probably completely wrong even if the phenomenon is true (why, for example, wouldn't they just set up a permanent presence here with which to study us in order to get around the problem?). It was just a crazy thought I had and figured it would be a good a ways as any to introduce myself to the community.

 

[nameless]

in this scenario you are leaving out important issues imo.

people are taken out of the wild.
people undergo trauma due to these experiences.

we can infer the nature or clues about the protagonists due to the callousness of their actions. however the "realness" of theses experinces are intrinsic to the discussion as some people experience friendly greys as well as sinister nordics. either way abductees have no choice in the matter which alludes to a callousness.

none of the biological stuff makes any sense that couldnt be replicated in a laboratory without any need for ridiculous cosplay night time BS. what does make sense is psychological, moral and cultural conditioning and tests within this regard hence the need for "in the wild" specimens.

i guess if we are going to play the supposition game;
disencarnate entities that take forms based on the personal subconcious id symbolism and cultural frame work of the "abductee" seems to fit in alot of regards. something to do with the 'observer effect' in quantum physics as well as factoring in centuries of occult contact are pretty close too. For centuries man has explored a map of the brain which allows us to contact entities through ritual magick, drugs and psychological means. Why cant it happen the other way round? and why just take the prosaic culturally narrow nuts n bolts view of bipedal aliens from venus?

 

[nameless]

i much prefer the idea of MIBs being dimensional police that have to recorrect/police time line shifts and changes to people caused by breaches in the known universe by entities like mothman and weird sightings that unanturaly change peoples conciouness and disturb their natural progression.

 

[nameless]

thanks for posting dude!

 

[Clifford Smith]

Thanks Nameless!

Thinking about it, I think you make a good point about the reproductive program not being an essential (or at least not a sufficient) motivation for abduction. There would be far less invasive/traumatic ways for the Greys to deal with us if that were the case. I was wrong not to touch upon the aspects of control inherent to the experience and the feelings of absolute helplessness, violation and manipulability felt by people when they are conscious of or are recollecting their experience; if their goals were purely as stated in my original post then these sorts of experiences would be completely superfluous to the practice of abduction, which they definitely don't seem to be.

I find your suppositions interesting as well... I do admit that in the west we have a longstanding materialist bias when it comes to explaining phenomena which we take seriously, tending only to bring in psychological/subjective explanations for phenomena which we don't take seriously. But this dichotomy between material/objective/real and psychological/subjective/illusion is as much a function of our limited/defective grasp of the fundamental nature of matter and mind, and their relationship to one another. We can't with our current understanding adequately account for the relationship between matter and consciousness in any way which doesn't still give rise to controversy... yet there IS a relationship and I'm pretty firmly of the belief that it is much stranger than our current determinist/materialist science and individualistic psychology can admit. So find your thoughts interesting in that regard... particularly when comparing our current alien accounts with past experiences with Fairies / Djinn etc... these beings may now be taking on the guise of an interplanetary, scientific-technological civilization because it is the only kind of fantasy our modern minds are prepared to accept as real (this would be especially important if they somehow fed off of our belief...

As for your thoughts on the MIB... have you seen the TV show "Fringe"?

 

[taikonaut]

If I recall correctly, Jacobs was even hesitant to buy into the "we need your genes" idea as an explanation for why they are supposedly here. When Jacobs had remarked about the ease with which humans could be reproduced by the ET's, I had the same thoughts about the materialist viewpoint that he'd perhaps unconsciously divulged about his position. Is there a gap in our own understanding of ourselves?

What I mean is that, supposing that the beings are abducting us, could they actually have a better understanding of our makeup than we do?

Producing children isn't like a pancake mix whereby you add the ingredients and voila! I guess my contention is that bonding and sociological aspects in some ways demands social interaction--something that the ETs may not be able to supply.

The other thing, is gravity. Presuming that they come from out there, we don't know the generational effects of long term space travel--travel that might extend beyond a lifetime--and how that might affect a being that has evolved on a planet.

"They" might even be indigenous to earth, so the very idea of the "extraterrestrial" in ET might be a false lead. I don't know why Vallee stopped short of saying that.

I apologize for the near point form of this reply, I haven't posted much in the last year and this is my first post here.

 

[Clifford Smith]

No need to apologize, its probably a better approach than the long-winded style towards which I tend

Prolonged living in low to zero g would certainly explain why the Greys can survive supporting such melon heads when their figure would put Kate Moss to shame.

And they could well be indigenous, or at least have been here longer than we think. Are you familiar with the Wandjina rock paintings in Australia?

 

[taikonaut]

Actually, I have seen the Wandjina paintings in passing, but I'm embarrassed to say that I haven't had a great look at them. I am aware that Bill Chalker has mentioned them before in relation to the sky lore origins of the indigenous peoples of Australia. Geez, he writes some boring books-- very well documented though.

Depending on whether you believe Kay Wilson's books, according to her accounts, the Grey's showed her that they were able to reproduce (again) and that might have been part of the plan--to rejuvenate their own genes. I don't know. If they were travelers, perhaps bodily functions atrophied to the point that reproduction wasn't possible and having found planet hardened genes began a slow process of adapting themselves in an effort to save themselves if that was the case. Perhaps they heard a primordial cry for help and considered that they would kill two birds with one stone--act as clandestine spiritual saviours and help themselves.

 

[nameless]

No need to apologize, its probably a better approach than the long-winded style towards which I tend

Prolonged living in low to zero g would certainly explain why the Greys can survive supporting such melon heads when their figure would put Kate Moss to shame.

And they could well be indigenous, or at least have been here longer than we think. Are you familiar with the Wandjina rock paintings in Australia?

This is another paradigm view. Perhaps it would be more useful to decipher the Grey archetype in terms off symbolism. Maybe looking at this the same way we can interpret African sculpture.

i havent seen Fringe. Is it any good?

 

[Clifford Smith]

Fringe is one of my favourite shows... its not the most consistently good show but that's because it often takes risks and goes out on limbs with its story telling. Not much on ET or UFO's but a lot on the frontiers of science, NDEs, telekinesis, parallel universes etc. The reason I asked is because there's a group of characters on the show called Observers who are quite obviously modelled on the MIB, and they seem to perform a function of policing/regulating the timeline... although their role/nature does seem to change in a later special episode (which wasn't part of the story arc so I'm not sure if it was of any consequence).

I'm not sure how to interpret the Grey as a symbolic archetype... but if I were to make an attempt I'd they symbolize something far from benevolent or even ambivalent towards us... as with the Reptilian archetype they combine humanoid features with those of animals traditionally considered foreign or even hostile towards us... the large black eyes have an even more negative connotation than insectoid features/motion; eyes are so central to human sociability and emotional communication that the greys can only symbolize a force/being that is absolutely inscrutable yet seems to understand and have access/control over our own emotions/actions.

There seems to be a need in us as humans to believe in the existence of sentient beings/forces that are more powerful than us and that are somehow responsible for us and what happens to us... if only so we feel we have someone to blame or negotiate with when we are affected by things beyond our control... a volcano is much easier to live with if we believe that it is a spirit whom we have at least a chance of satisfying or reasoning with... we also have a need to feel a part of some intelligible and intelligent order that is greater than us, a kind of cosmic or grand social drama for which we are at least interested spectators if we can't be active participants. I think its hard to accept that most of the forces and phenomena that affect our lives, be they natural or social, are beyond not merely our own control but anyone else's. I think that for most people monotheism (let alone atheism/deism etc) is too abstract and distant a metaphysics to make up for this need, so we continue to invest lesser beings and forces with their own power, authority and agency. Aliens for many fulfill the role of angels and demons, one might say.