3.16.08 Episode - Don Ledger

[Miah]

I finally finished the rest of the show today, some very interesting information on the Shag Harbor incident.

The fact that it was seen on radar is interesting. But who's to say it was not a military test gone bad that they were trying to cover up.

But in comes the news that the object and creatures were seen and possibly photographed by the divers... Sounds exciting enough, but worthless as everything else in the field without proof. And best of all, the witness wouldn't say more about what they looked like, typical.

Did anyone get some of the foam and test it?

 

[mike]

if i were dealing with an ET reality as evidenced in the abduction aspect of the UFO question, and knew no more than i do.
if as a govt i had no way of inter-reacting with these creatures other than the abduction reality, i might try an (dis)Information campaign aimed at the very minds the aliens were probing.
convincing them that i had a secret reverse engineering program would filter thru the abductees to the abducters.

now even if i dont have a crashed craft and ET tech (and especially if i dont) this works as a means of deception.

if the reality for the ETs is that despite searching for these programs and technologys they find nothing at all. if despite their best efforts to retreive a supposed lost craft, they find nothing, then the data conflicts.

unable to validate the data either way leaves the possibility open that we may have something that they cant detect.

perhaps deception is the only viable tool we have for dealing with an abduction reality.

perhaps by convincing abductees of a false reality we pass that on to our now confused visitors, thus keeping them on their toes and on the back foot

the effort also pays off if there are no ET's.
foriegn govts will also try to track down these secret technologys wasting time money and manpower chasing phantoms. while the real research into conventional military tech goes on

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

if i were dealing with an ET reality as evidenced in the abduction aspect of the UFO question, and knew no more than i do.
if as a govt i had no way of inter-reacting with these creatures other than the abduction reality, i might try an (dis)Information campaign aimed at the very minds the aliens were probing.
convincing them that i had a secret reverse engineering program would filter thru the abductees to the abducters.

now even if i dont have a crashed craft and ET tech (and especially if i dont) this works as a means of deception.

if the reality for the ETs is that despite searching for these programs and technologys they find nothing at all. if despite their best efforts to retreive a supposed lost craft, they find nothing, then the data conflicts.

unable to validate the data either way leaves the possibility open that we may have something that they cant detect.

perhaps deception is the only viable tool we have for dealing with an abduction reality.

perhaps by convincing abductees of a false reality we pass that on to our now confused visitors, thus keeping them on their toes and on the back foot

the effort also pays off if there are no ET's.
foriegn govts will also try to track down these secret technologys wasting time money and manpower chasing phantoms. while the real research into conventional military tech goes on

Hmmn... And what's to stop these creatures from abducting the disinfo spreaders and thus learning the truth of the whole grand deception?

 

[mike]

Hmmn... And what's to stop these creatures from abducting the disinfo spreaders and thus learning the truth of the whole grand deception?

Nothing, so one would ensure that the spreaders didnt know it was disinfo, and keep the number of people who do to an absolute minimum

it would only take one man with the position and power to do so
and self induced amnesia isnt out of the question either

New Scientist issue: 6 December 2003

http://www.newscientist.com.

You're my wife?
ONE day former astronaut Duane Graveline came
back from a walk and failed to
recognise his wife. He blamed this temporary bout
of amnesia on the drug
Lipitor, which he had been taking for several
weeks.
Doctors dismissed his fears, but six weeks after
he started taking the drug
again he suffered another bout of amnesia. This
time he could not remember
anything after high school, not even his
children.

 

[BrandonD]

Something that occurred to me after listening to this show: In these major ufo events there always seems to be one accident which is more flashy and attracts attention, while at the same time there is another similar event nearby which is often considered by experts to be the "real" event.

With Roswell there was the nearby crash at Socorro (I think that was the area), with Shag Harbor it was Shelburne, with the Pheonix lights it was the earlier triangle craft.

Perhaps all of these point out a standard military technique when facing ufo situations: Create a simultaneous attention-grabbing situation nearby, and keep this charade going until the situation is cleared up at the "real" site.

Another thing that supports this idea is when Don describes the military man who is at the Shag Harbor site and finds nothing, and yet he is told to remain there until further notice. It makes the whole thing sound like a distraction tactic.

I think this is something to keep in mind with future major ufo events. Perhaps something of great significance was taking place in an area nearby Stephenville, so a grand attention-grabbing charade was created in Stephenville to distract from the real event.

In such a scenario, anyone who happens to report the real event will probably get lumped in with the Stephenville event.

This also might account for one of the questions everyone asks: Why the hell do these ufos have lights? It seems completely unnecessary, but this wouldn't be the case if the ufo was intended to be seen as a distraction from another event nearby which would otherwise attract undue attention.

 

[Graphimancer]

Good episode. I learned a lot about this incident. I even learned a bit about the Stephensville event.

 

[CapnG]

I'm kinda torn on this episode. On the one hand, Ledger did ramble on quite a bit. It alarms me to think he considered his contribution to the show to be rushed or truncated... makes me wonder if he hasn't spent a little TOO much time on the Shag Harbour case (yeah that's right, harBOUR! Learn to spell... dang yankees...)

On the other hand, it was interesting to note that he felt he could go into such a detailed account, covering nuances, explaining various attempts to corroborate and check the data, etc without dumbing it down and spoon-feeding us C2C style. In other words, Ledger seems to realize that people who listen to this show are not uninformed morons. Good for him and good for the P-cast too!

 

[Manu]

I agree that detail is good when relevant and I don't want him to give a truncated history if there are relevant facts to tell. But I identified with David's impatience in wanting to get to the significant points of the story without all the backstory and meandering.

 

[M8059]

I gotta complain...Does ANYONE sit and listen to someone who goes on and on and on and on about a subject and doesn't get to the point?!? I can't stand people like this...they think what they have to say is what you'd like to hear, even if it takes half a century to get there. People like this, to me, come across as in love with the sound of their own voice. I felt sorry for Dave and Gene having to hear this man ramble. I'm sure they turned off their mics, read a book (War and Peace, maybe?) and then chimed in when necessary? In no way would I like to claim that I know all there is, but most people interested in UFO's know about the cases Ledger spoke of. We don't need to hear odd little details that contribute nothing to the case!!! Perhaps I have ADD in this day and age of technology and 5 second commerical breaks, but PLEASE shut people up when they ramble. I miss half the show fastforwarding the guest's commentary. I'd also love to hear your (Gene and Dave) opinion of your guest in the last 5 minutes...it's great hear a little follow up to the interview. Love the Paracast, just hate the guests sometimes...and now I'VE rambled. Guess I'm a darn hypocrite too?!

 

[David Biedny]

Yeah, Don is a good guy, but he had a problem getting to the point. What are you gonna do, some speakers are more engaging than others. One of the brothers who wrote Photoshop is an absolute genius, he won his first Oscar last year for JackRabbits of the Carribean (TERRIBLE movie, lovely effects). Anyway, this fellow is definitely one of the most brilliant people in the FX industry, he's a monster artist and insanely talented programmer, but I'll tell you, he could be showing the most exciting stuff on a screen, and you'd fall asleep at his delivery. It's just the way he is - what's happening in his head has got to be intense, but you would never know it by how he communicates.

dB

 

[Rick Deckard]

I gotta complain...Does ANYONE sit and listen to someone who goes on and on and on and on about a subject and doesn't get to the point?!? I can't stand people like this...

Hmmm, I dunno. 120 minutes is a lot of air-time to fill. Although, I did want Don to get to the point sometimes, I didn't mind all the 'incidental' detail because it painted a very vivid picture. If your head is swimming with all that detail, then I think it must be difficult to keep it concise - it seemed to me that he didn't put any level of importance of on any particular piece of info. So, if he's treating everything with equal importance/relevance, how can he decide which bits to leave out?

Of course you could argue it's up to the hosts to maintain the focus, but I think it's a fine line to maintain - interrupting too many times may have the opposite effect. At least you couldn't accuse him of not doing his research - he seemed to know every last detail about it and seemed totally consistent in his recollection of the facts as he saw them. I feel like I've read a detailed account of the event, just by listening to Don's ramblings - I feel like I could recall with detail what allegedly happened, just from what I picked up from the show. There's value in that.

So, yeah, the interview rambled on a bit too much, but on the other hand, Don could have said very little and replied with "read my book for the detail" which I would have found really annoying.

Overall, I have a positive feeling about the show.

 

[M8059]

You guys are certainly right...rereading my post, I'm coming off like a big whiner. I think there's days where you don't have the patience to listen to people, then there's other days your wife/girlfriend...ANYONE can go on and on, and you absorb every word spoken. I really did enjoy the interview. You guys certainly have an awesome way of truly listening to your guests...most hosts just wanna interupt and get to what they have to say. Keep on rocking in the paranormal world (how cheesy was that?!?!) and I look forward to this week's episode.

 

[Brian Now]

You guys are certainly right...rereading my post, I'm coming off like a big whiner.

You weren't so bad. That guy could talk!

then there's other days your wife/girlfriend...ANYONE can go on and on, and you absorb every word spoken.

I never have days like that. Maybe it's just that nobody around me is that interesting
I liked the show overall. I like guests that aren't full of themselves and Ledger, while way too windy, gives the impression he is in it for the story - not for ego. I wanted more about the occupants of the craft...I believe that he mentioned them, but I was getting a little sleepy while listening.

 

[d.braun]

I watched the video of the Stephenville UFO doing its aerobatic light display and it occurred to me that instead of witnessing an object zipping out hieroglyphics at lightning speed, as I at first assumed, I realized that, because of how it would display suddenly, linger, then go out before reappearing in a new configuration, that it might actually have been changing shape in the darkness before re-illuminating.

Then I had another idea: perhaps it was simply a display-panel type technology; integral to the hull surface of a large craft hovering motionless in the night sky. A holographic laser-like projection from the craft would be another possibility.

 

[Apocalypto]

Yet another great episode. I'm noticing a trend here. Thanks again.

 

[Ankhes]

I really liked this episode, and I want to read more about the Shag Harbour incident. I also noticed how Don went on and on, but I did appreciate how he did so to paint the vivid picture, as Mr. Deckard said. I like to get detail and form the bigger image in my mind as I listen.

I know nothing of how the military works, but I was also surprised at how little, if anything, was done about the creatures under the water for 7 days. Of course, as I recall, the creatures being there have not been verified, right? That was just one person stating that? I don't recall. Anyway, if they were there a week seems unrealistic. Lots can happen in a week.

Oh, yeah, the trend for great shows continues!

 

[agsouthtexas]

i really liked this episode. I know that sometimes people can talk and seem long winded, but i really appreciate Don for sharing details. it painted a picture in my mind as if i was really there.
Gene and Dave let Ledger speak and and reigned him in at the right time. He seems like a nice guy that you could just sit down and talk to and ask questions to.
Great show.I still listen to it about once a week.