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Well that's the point, ain't it Mike?

Well Gene, whaddya know? Rigid ideology makes for strange bedfellows. If Rainey is the best Randle can find to support his ideology, he's really scraping the barrel. Welcome to the 1-star Debunker Motel.

Read Hopkins' essay on the techniques utilised by "the hydra-headed debunking machine and its many busy attendants" (wish I could write that well) and you'll see the stooges employed most of these techniques in constructing their hit-piece: accusing obviously honest people of being hoaxers...

To entertain those easily manipulated into believeing all the grand conspiracy crap, you have to update anew the Evil Ones, the bogeyman, for the disenchanted to rail against. In mediaeval times it was the Devil: essentially a manufactured creation of the Catholic Church in the 12th century...

Agreed Gene. But with the greatest respect and all that, real understanding of this phenomenon is unlikely to be gained on an internet chat forum - no matter how intelligent or well-intentioned those contributing to the dialog might be. For any understanding to be reached, extensive and...

I don't have time this morning to go into the whole thing. But suffice to say I've been through the screed in detail, line by line, with Budd Hopkins who of course knew these three deceivers very well. I've been to the sites (including Linda's building), read Garfield Reece-Stevens' appallingly...

---------- Post added at 06:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 AM ---------- Sorry if it comes across that way, Angelo. Though like Phil, don't agree with everything you believe and post here I find you articulate, reasoned and respectful and have said this before. I'll moderate the...

John is kinda interesting - one of the original "Men who stare at goats". I met him a couple of times and had a beer with him once in DC. I like him; he's very smart, but gives little away. Lots of people, including some solid credible people I know and respect, insist that he's a spook. His...

Stephen - to be fair and accurate, the term "hoax" as applied to Jim Mortellaro is not entirely true in a simple, literal sense. If you read Hopkins' article carefully, he restates what I've heard him say a dozen times before in person, and what I've heard from other members of the IF Commitee...

"Deconstructing the Debunkers" is now posted on the IF website: http://www.intrudersfoundation.org/Deconstruct.html Also, Peter Robbins' article which Kay Wilson has published on her site is poignant and thought-provoking: http://www.alienjigsaw.com/Articles/Thoughts0nBudd.html It's a great...

That the whole phenomenon is "hard to believe" is a serious understatement. It's completely crazy, so far outside our consensus reality (John Mack's phrase I believe, and a good one) that the understandable reaction on first acquaintance is to dismiss it out of hand as utterly ridiculous...

Don't you think it odd that the six other witnesses all testified to the same thing and that in 35 years, not one has changed a single detail? Some of them didn't even like each other, and one in particular had a real enmity with Travis and disliked him intensely. What is supposed to be the...

I presume you've not met Travis, nor spent significant time with him? If you had, I doubt you could hold to the hoax idea. No chance, IMO.

You need to understand a couple of things (maybe you already do). First of all, though Hopkins has authored four books on the abduction subject (one co-authored with Rainey, in those days honest enough to embrace the phenomenon as real, having done a bit of genuine investigation with Budd) but...

No Angelo, I don't think necessarily the abductors are ETs. But the phenomenon is real all right, and physically intrusive, from my lifelong personal experience. I don't know what the phenomenon is but I know what it's not - sleep paralysis, hypnagogic states or any of that brainless, ignorant...

Or it might simply be to do with survival of their species, as has often been speculated (including by Strieber in some of his early output on the issue).

OK I kinda get your point. There's a number of people actively engaged (many full-time) in working with new abductees around the world: some of the best ones in the USA like John Carpenter, Yvonne Smith, Jed Turnbull know BH and have learned about the phenomenon with him. But there are many...

Who, exactly? Be specific.

Kandinsky - have you even bothered to read the piece at all? Hopkins is using the example of the guy down the river in the hut by the bridge, who allegedly didn't witness the abduction, as a prima facae case of debunker tactics (actually used by the late Philip Klass) - of the...

What points?