Gaza and The Loss of Civilization

[Tyger]

Hammas has used these victims for propaganda. It still does not change the fact: Gaza is a Terrorist run state.

Yes, I have been 'impressed' with the propaganda this time round. I have been down this rabbit hole for decades and can no longer abide the psyops. My eyes were opened on this when I came across the Promethean Action folks - and the whole history of 'The City of London', and the switcheroo that took place at the beginning of the 20th century was laid out in a way that made sense and I could follow. A lot of questions answered. The issue is about creating peace not fomenting war. Don't take sides - if one does, one has fallen for the psyops, and the game is on.

Israel has been manipulated by its handler as much as the Gazans have by Hammas. Their respective handler is - in fact - the same entity. They are both being used to stir conflict - and we as the observers play into the handlers' game when we take sides. The game is on. Conflict wins.

I offer this recent Promethean Update as good as any to get a sense of what has been afoot and what remedies are being applied to the mess.

Nixon's Revenge: Trump Just Ended the Kissinger Doctrine — And Britain Knows It
Published June 29, 2026: [Video Run Time 14:04] Promethean Updates
"Susan Kokinda argues that Vice President JD Vance’s Nixon Library remarks about a 'deep state' targeting Nixon and Trump point to a deeper fight over U.S. foreign policy: an American tradition of ending wars versus Henry Kissinger’s British 'balance of power' doctrine of managing conflict.

"Kokinda links Eisenhower ending Korea and stopping the 1956 Suez seizure, and William Rogers’ post–Six-Day War comprehensive peace proposal, to Trump’s Abraham Accords, contrasting them with Kissinger’s rise after Watergate, the collapse of Rogers’ plan, and renewed Middle East wars, including Lebanon’s descent into civil war after Kissinger-era maneuvering.

"Kokinda highlights April 14, 2026 talks involving Lebanese and Israeli ambassadors with Secretary Rubio and a June 26 trilateral framework for ending the conflict. She also cites June 23 White Sands directed-energy tests and Trump’s January 2025 'Golden Dome' order as reversing Kissinger’s ABM/MAD legacy and pushing U.S. industrial revival toward assured defense and lasting peace."

TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Nixon's Revenge: Trump Just Ended the Kissinger Doctrine - And Britain Knows It
01:34 Two Foreign Policies: American Development vs British Perpetual War
05:05 Kissinger’s Doctrine in Action: How Lebanon Was Broken
08:54 New Mexico: The Stake Through the Heart of MAD

 

[Randall]

Israel have overreached on many an occasion and the international community needs to step in and put an end to it, however Hammas has used these victims for propaganda. It still does not change the fact. Gazza is a Terrorist run state.

If by "terrorist run" you mean run by people who have committed acts of terror, crimes against humanity, and genocide — then the damage done by anyone in Gaza ( including the Islamic Resistance Movement ) to their oppressors in Israel pales in comparison to the grotesque disproportionate overkill of the Israeli IDF — over 20,000 CHILDREN in Gaza alone ( to date ) plus doctors, teachers, humanitarian aid workers, journalists, defenseless mothers, and citizens who want no part of the war.

 

[Richard Hawkins]

If by "terrorist run" you mean run by people who have committed acts of terror, crimes against humanity, and genocide — then the damage done by anyone in Gaza ( including the Islamic Resistance Movement ) to their oppressors in Israel pales in comparison to the grotesque disproportionate overkill of the Israeli IDF.

Bullshit.

 

[Randall]

Bullshit.

Naturally — The confessions of IDF soldiers themselves, live reporting, UN investigations, Amnesty International, World court of Justice, and scholarly documentation are all just "bullshit", "fake news" — just like this photo . . .

Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, UN commission of inquiry says

The panel finds that four of the five genocidal acts defined under international law have been carried out against Palestinians during the war.

www.bbc.com

 

[Richard Hawkins]

Naturally — The confessions of IDF soldiers themselves, live reporting, UN investigations, Amnesty International, World court of Justice, and scholarly documentation are all just "bullshit", "fake news" — just like this photo . . .

Israel has committed genocide in Gaza, UN commission of inquiry says

The panel finds that four of the five genocidal acts defined under international law have been carried out against Palestinians during the war.

www.bbc.com

I don't care Randall. Until atrocities that are carried out against Israeli nationals are treated with the same sympathy as those carried out by the IDF I don't give a shit. And I am not a Jew.

 

[Randall]

I don't care Randall. Until atrocities that are carried out against Israeli nationals are treated with the same sympathy as those carried out by the IDF I don't give a shit. And I am not a Jew.

If only the world had more people like you who "don't give a shit" and "don't care" — everything would be all lollipops and rainbows.
After all — complaining on a dead forum like this really is useless ( seriously ) — nobody cares.
So sit back and watch some sports ( or whatever matters to you ) — really enjoy not caring or giving a shit.
Hell — why not take it a step further and celebrate with some nifty IDF dance moves next time they level a hospital?
Oh wait — there are no fully functional hospitals left in Gaza

 

[Richard Hawkins]

If only the world had more people like you who "don't give a shit" and "don't care" — everything would be all lollipops and rainbows.
After all — complaining on a dead forum like this really is useless ( seriously ) — nobody cares.
So sit back and watch some sports ( or whatever matters to you ) — really enjoy not caring or giving a shit.
Hell — why not take it a step further and celebrate with some nifty IDF dance moves next time they level a hospital?
Oh wait — there are no fully functional hospitals left in Gaza

There are no fully functional hospitals left in Gaza because Hamas has commandeered them for terrorist bases.

 

[Tyger]

There are no fully functional hospitals left in Gaza because Hamas has commandeered them for terrorist bases.

Exactly so. It's as though the critics are failing to consider the kind of warfare Hammas was conducting in Gaza. It was a bloody dirty kind of war.

 

[Tyger]

Until atrocities that are carried out against Israeli nationals are treated with the same sympathy as those carried out by the IDF I don't give a shit. And I am not a Jew.

Yes. I've been puzzled by the glaring discrepancy in people's outrage. It's evidence to me of how successful the psyops has been .

War is war. No war is clean and tidy. War brutalizes everyone involved. Especially the fighters in the thick of it. October 7th was an outrage - Israel's response was surprisingly measured taken as a whole - but in the end Hammas did not play according to the Marquess of Queensberry Rules - quite the reverse - they went against every standard of decency, placing women, children, the sick and elderly, all in the line of fire. The outcome was calculated - Hammas knew what they were doing - and their propaganda was phenomenally successful even though it was often shown to be flagrantly untrue. Did Israel err? I imagine they did. But taking a side solves nothing, for the reasons I've given prior.

 

[Pygar2]

If Hamas were to lay down their arms, the problem would be over. If Israel were to lay down their arms, the nation would be over.

 

[Randall]

There are no fully functional hospitals left in Gaza because Hamas has commandeered them for terrorist bases.

The disparity I'm seeing in the responses here is that to the oppressors, their enemies are called "terrorists" while to the oppressed, they're called a resistance. HAMAS literally translates to Islamic Resistance Movement. Free from that bias, the only criteria that matters are the actions taken by the players, in which case the atrocities perpetrated by the IDF are gargantuan compared to that of HAMAS.

Unfortunately, the label "terrorist" is so effective at instilling bias, that it has been applied indiscriminately to justify ongoing bloodshed and destruction. Meanwhile fair-minded questions are offhandedly dismissed, ignored, or seen as sympathizing with the enemy. That bias is blatantly prevalent here, and it's doubtful that anything anyone says will displace it — not even the deaths of tens of thousands of children.

I find that inhumane and tragic. The hate that must fill the hearts of those who celebrate that as part of the IDF's genocidal victory is unfathomable to me. I am so thankful I'm not like that. At the same time, it is disheartening to see nations ( and the world ) descending into that darkness.

 

[Burnt State]

The disparity I'm seeing in the responses here is that to the oppressors, their enemies are called "terrorists" while to the oppressed, they're called a resistance

One man's terrorist is another man's hero. Those dividing lines are pretty stark in America and other parts of the world where there is unqualified support for everything Israel does no matter how despicable.

Very few of Israel's supporters know much about the original formation of that state post WWII. It is fairly well documented that the original terrorists in the Middle East were the Israelis. They were the first to use car bombings as a means to induce fear and scare away the people who lived there. To this day the use of fear, intimidation and violence as a means to create Israeli settlements where Palestinians once lived (research Hill Top Youth if you want to meet some real religious extremists) is an ongoing terror campaign.

The bombing of mosques, universities, hospitals, the targeting of journalists and use of sexual violence by the IDF against citizens of Palestine is well documented, hence South Africa 's charge of genocide. Israel's claims of hospitals being used as storage facilities for weapons and soldiers has yet to be proven. It was almost comical, the first IDF confirmation of a paper tacked to a hospital wall in Arabic that they said proved this was a Hamma run hospital, turned out to be the nursing roster rotation.

I think history will not be very kind to Israel at all for their blatant attempt to destroy a civilization through the murdering of children the poisoning of lands and water supply systems while allowing disease and famine to grow and develop by restricting aid. Their claims of UNRWA being invaded by Hamas has yet to have any concrete and evidence provided.

And while all this genocide and apartheid rule has persisted over decades the world has stood by and done nothing.


Could you imagine if the original inhabitants of the Americas had the power to and decided to take their homelands back in North America and did what Israel has done to Palestine?

I think it's important to properly study the history of Zionism and separate it from Judaism and the Jewish identity. That's not an antisemitic statement but an important way of understanding what's actually going on with right wing leadership in Israel. Listen carefully to Jews who protest what is being done to Palestine. It takes a lot to speak out against your homeland. Their voices matter a lot.

For others I strongly recommend reading the American journalist and graphic artist, Joe Sacco's first person account of what he discovered was taking place in Palestine and how the Israeli oppression has been genocidal for a long time now.

 

[Burnt State]

I find that inhumane and tragic. The hate that must fill the hearts of those who celebrate that as part of the IDF's genocidal victory is unfathomable to me. I am so thankful I'm not like that. At the same time, it is disheartening to see nations ( and the world ) descending into that darkness.

Randall, despite our occasional harsh differences in other areas of discussion I find this part of your empathic identity to be very reassuring. I appreciate your tenacity on this specific topic.

For those who want a historic look at just how long this forum has been talking about Gaza the post below under "Similar Threads" started by @nameless, (a really fantastic, esoteric, iconic and intriguing poster on this forum, especially when it came to that whole UFO thing). Is worth reading.

My Plea For Humanity: An Anti War Rant:

Personally, I don't entirely understand being "for" any war, anymore, when the majority of deaths are civilians, primarily women and children. What on earth did they do to deserve to be murdered by my other nation for any reason?!

As a supposedly advanced human race, with all our great technology, we sre still raping and pillaging, literally, when it comes to war, and we are still building giant walls, concentration camps and detention centers to contain those we hate.

Nothing has changed, we are pathetic. We have learned nothing.from our bloody wars. We have no clue how to be civilized or treat each other in a civil manner.

All hatreds are useless and wasteful. They slow down real human progress. We could be so much more than the simple deity believing, corporate worshipping, scapegoating, patriarchal, hate murdering, planet choking cesspool that we so often are.

As a descendant of grandparents who were among the first UN designated displaced persons and WWII refugees I can wholeheartedly say that War Sucks! The trauma that descends down through it is terrible.. The children who have seen such horrors in front of them, against their families, will sometimes seek our revenge against those who did such things.

This is how we perpetuate violence against each other. Each time we say it's ok to kill someone's children they will.turn around and say it's ok to kill our children. Humans are idiots that way.

 

[Randall]

Randall, despite our occasional harsh differences in other areas of discussion I find this part of your empathic identity to be very reassuring. I appreciate your tenacity on this specific topic.

Well — as you're already aware, tenaciousness happens to be one of my strong points.
I don't even recall anything "harsh" about our other differences. I just see them as unresolved and am open to resolving them any time you are.
Excellent posts too ( BTW )

 

[Randall]

A Peripherally Related Story:

What We're Not Told About Some "Terrorist Plots" In Canada . . .​

 

[kanakaris]

Israeli crimes

 

[kanakaris]

Bullshit.

No , fact. Do the math.

 

[Trajanus]

If by "terrorist run" you mean run by people who have committed acts of terror, crimes against humanity, and genocide — then the damage done by anyone in Gaza ( including the Islamic Resistance Movement ) to their oppressors in Israel pales in comparison to the grotesque disproportionate overkill of the Israeli IDF — over 20,000 CHILDREN in Gaza alone ( to date ) plus doctors, teachers, humanitarian aid workers, journalists, defenseless mothers, and citizens who want no part of the war.

What I find most remarkable, or disheartening, is the indifference of the US government to zionist genocide despite American responsibility as backer of Israel. This of course mirrors the clout of AIPAC and similar groups, who've essentially turned this country into a milch cow for Israel, and its poodle.

 

[Randall]

Norman Finkelstein & Jeremy Corbyn:
THE INTERVIEW ISRAEL WANT TO BAN

 

[Randall]

Israeli War Crimes