December 27th - Budd Hopkins & Doug

[EQ42]

Doug

True, but do you think they'd still keep them around?

I only mention that as further confirmation that pictures were taken- and both he and his brother had missing pictures. The brother had someone familiar with photography look at the negatives who felt that either some frames were removed or some blank had been added (can't remember- listened late last night)- if the negatives from that trip were still around it'd be interesting if David could take a look at them. However, it's been a long time- I'm guessing they can't be found.

 

[EQ42]

Doug

The absence of this alleged evidence proves nothing one way or the other, since we don't have it to analyze.

At the end of the day, Doug isn't seeking publicity about his encounters. He didn't even want us to reveal his real name, and has never gone after 15 minutes of fame.

True. I hope he's aware of the skepticism of The Paracast audience and the comments on here don't send him into any sort of tailspin or make him regret his appearance. I appreciate you guys bringing this essentially unknown case to our attention. I hope you're able to find more alleged abductees that come across as credible as Doug.

 

[Tommy Allison]

Doug

Not getting all of one's photos back isn't unusual at all.

My Dad had a similar experience when he took a bunch of photos into a Walgreens that were UFO related. They had 3 rolls of film, but only got back 2.

Oddly enough, my ex and I took in 9 rolls of film of me restoring a car, and a trip we took, and got 5 rolls of film back

I am convinced that if you are taking pictures on conventional film, and someone likes your photos, they'll steal the negatives and leave you with nothing. There's no real oversight or accountability, even if you pay with a credit card, they can still screw you because unless they're actually processing the film onsite, you never know who exactly is processing your film.

My favorite though when it comes to this sort of thing, is taking photos you KNOW are good, and having someone give you back all Black or all White Negatives. It's happened to me on one occasion, and those weren't even UFO related. I've taken photos with conventional cameras for about 30 years now. If there's one thing I know about, is shutterspeed, as well as aperature and focal length. Sometimes there are people who are assholes.

So, in my mind, Doug's story isn't convenient, it's actually typical. It's why I develop my own film.

 

[EQ42]

Doug

So, in my mind, Doug's story isn't convenient, it's actually typical. It's why I develop my own film.

You're still using film? That's impressive.

 

[Tommy Allison]

Doug

You're still using film? That's impressive.

Only for certain things. If I'm looking for the paranormal, like UFO's, and Ghosts and such, Film. If it's just taking pictures of normal crap, digital.

Don't get me wrong, I love my digital, but even a digital camera has its limitations.

I actually shoot all my film stuff in Black and White. Much easier to develop, as well as the negatives are always clearer to analyze.

 

[cottonzway]

Doug

I am going to listen to the show in a bit, but when I saw the thread I thought it was about that cartoon about a decade ago.

 

[kcfraser]

Doug

I haven't finished the podcast yet. I'm only at the part where he's at a condo in Victoria, BC.

If he had stopped with the story about driving in the desert, seeing something strange and losing some time, then it could have been a little more acceptable. The 'black thing' in his knee as a child, the grey midgets, the time spent in a hospital with out his mothers visits and now the craft flying over the condo dilutes the original desert story.
However maybe when I finish the rest of the podcast tomorrow I may change my mind.


Keith (I'd have serious ethical problems participating in human cloning experiments — I just couldn't live with myself.)

 

[David Biedny]

As I mentioned on the show, I've spent some considerable time speaking with Doug, and my personal opinion is that he's legit. Now, mind you, I've been known to make some bad character judgments in both my professional and personal lives - shit happens, I'm a flawed human being, as are we all - but my feeling is that he's undergone some genuinely disturbing experiences, and has displayed some real courage in coming on the show and talking about this stuff.

I'll let you all in on something - those of you who might question Doug's veracity regarding the variety & number of his experiences - well, that's something I totally, absolutely understand, at a core level. It's the reason that I've primarily chosen to publicly discuss experiences in which I had a co-witness - to keep things as objective and grounded as possible. If I were to tell all of you about all of the things I've seen and experienced, you'd probably end up thinking that I was FOS. Seriously, I have a hard time getting my brain around some of my own experiences, and for chrissakes, I was there. This has all made my life very complicated, and as I've said before, I do this show with Gene in order to get some of this off my chest, to try and integrate this stuff with my overall life and not totally lose my marbles (granted, there are some who think that ship has already sailed, and sometimes, I might be tempted to agree with them). I've gained precious little by going public with my experiences - outside of meeting some interesting folks, and the friendship I've forged with Dusty/Mark, this has all had a relatively negative effect on my life, both personal and professional. I went into this with both eyes open, I'm an adult and understand that the potential was there for all of this to blow up in my face, so I understand where someone like Doug is coming from, I really, truly do.

Doug has nothing for sale, seeks zero publicity, has been deeply impacted by his experiences, and is trying to get on with his life. He came on here after substantial discussions with myself and Budd, and was very hesitant to do so. Personally, I believe what he's saying. Make of it what you will.

dB

 

[Gareth]

Doug

True, but do you think they'd still keep them around?

Id have them locked in a safe. Absolutely.

 

[jkoci]

Doug

I thought it was about that cartoon about a decade ago.

I don't think that Doug ever encountered any UFOs. However his best friend had aqua blue skin color and was named Skeeter.

 

[Lauren Jones]

I'm not really one to believe or disbelieve a story. At this point, I give Doug the benefit of the doubt. He seems to believe in his experiences and I don't see him as a liar.

I'd like to ask a question regarding Budd Hopkins that has nothing to do with Doug, so please don't misunderstand me. If circumstances had been different, and obvious frauds like Jim Sparks (who apparently had a relationship with Mack) and Stan Romanek had initially gone to Budd Hopkins with their stories, do you think Budd Hopkins would be vouching for these individuals as authentic? I could obviously be wrong, but I suspect that he would, although not under any deceptive pretenses.

Thoughts?

Incidentally, David's laugh when Doug said, "he'd look at me and say, well, you've got to stop putting a cattle prod up your ass" is priceless. I nominate that sound bite for commercial breaks.

 

[mikec]

I was very impressed.

The tension and anxiety in Doug's voice was palpable. I thiink it's important for people to hear that tension, because it's a very real part of the experience.

I respect the PARACAST and Budd for making this interview happen. And - of course - Doug too. The narative of his experiences were not a rehersed set of monologues, you could sense he was deeply trying to make sense of his experiences.

I'll add that I came on the PARACAST less than a year ago, and I felt like I had that same deep anxiety in my voice too. That needy feeling of being desperate to understand can be overwhelming. I was pretty shaken up to hear his emotions welling up as he spoke. Really un-nerving for me. But, also an important addition to the entire diolog. This subject cannot be seen without it's emotional undercurrent.

Thank you - all of you - really and truly.

 

[gstetphan]

I am more likely to believe someone who has nothing to gain by coming out with these the events, than someone who does have financial and personal gain at stake. He is not peddling a book, not pimping a movie and the fact that he has chosen to remain semi anonymous adds to his legitimacy. He does not sound like he is in good health and he alluded to this sporadically through out the interview. Perhaps this is a way for him to settle his personal demons before he goes to the great beyond. I tend to think that there is more fact than fiction to his story, with little fabrication or false memories, although this does not mean that there are no holes in it. I believe the gaps actually add to the legitimacy. It is a clear indicator that the story is not scripted.

 

[Brian Now]

True, but do you think they'd still keep them around?

... if the negatives from that trip were still around it'd be interesting if David could take a look at them. However, it's been a long time- I'm guessing they can't be found.

If I'm not mistaken he said his brother still has those taped blank negatives. It wouldn't prove a lot if we saw them today. But it might be interesting, to a degree.

 

[marduk]

Doug

First off I'd like to say a big heartfelt thank you to Gene & David for this, and for Doug and Budd as well.

I think this is a great direction for the show -- bypass the researchers, the noise, and go to the experiencers themselves. And so incredibly much of Doug's experiences mirror my own it completely freaked me out. I had to stop listening a few times in fact.

The two things I find really hard to accept as they were presented, was the idea the hospital wouldn't let a mother even look her 2 year-old child for several weeks.

I grew up in a very rural part of northern Alberta in the early 70's. Let me tell you this kind of thing is very real. Husbands not allowed to see their wives during delivery, family not being allowed to see patients during recovery, etc. Once I had to get my tonsils out -- two memories I have of this experience are being held down by the nurses to get the needle to knock me out without my mom around and not being able to see my mom for what felt like days afterward. Another time I developed pneumonia and they wanted to keep me in the hospital for observation and thought my mom was "in the way and should go home." She picked me up and carried me out on the spot. I can only imagine it was worse in the 50s. The power doctors had in this time in Canada was unbelievable.

And secondly, it's hard to believe the roll of film was intentionally stolen by Kodak or whoever. I'd find it easier to believe they just accidentally destroyed it during developing.

Again I can relate to this in many ways... I once took the family to the UK in 2003. We visited Stonehenge and to our amazement on a rainy day two unmarked black helicopters came in low and slow, circled the henge, and left. I had my videocamera out videotaping stonehenge and remember explicitly zooming in on the helicopters while taping. Could see the pilots looking back with the "rec" on in the viewfinder. But when I went back to the tape to see what I got that whole section was missing. No static, no nothing. Just those segments were gone. Now again you can call BS on me, don't care, but it happened.

So much of Doug's experience mirrored my own. Right down to my first wife leaving me a few years after a shared experience with no explanation. And like Doug I haven't told my current wife or kids a damn thing. But I am vigilant, especially with the kids, and especially when they get nightmares.

Glad I don't remember ever getting the cattle prod though.

 

[owlman]

Doug

Huge thanks to Gene, David, Budd and Doug for a thoroughly enjoyable episode of The Paracast.
Doug came across as being extremely sincere and the part where he lost those photos made me groan out loud with disappointment.
As usual, Budd Hopkins was an absolutely gracious man and an absolute gem of a guest. Kiviat, are you fucking listening ?
I love this show !

 

[Brian Now]

Doug

I grew up in a very rural part of northern Alberta in the early 70's. Let me tell you this kind of thing is very real. Husbands not allowed to see their wives during delivery, family not being allowed to see patients during recovery, etc. Once I had to get my tonsils out -- two memories I have of this experience are being held down by the nurses to get the needle to knock me out without my mom around and not being able to see my mom for what felt like days afterward.

While I appreciate the fact that rural hospitals in days past might have had somewhat draconian policies compared to today, this isn't really what I was talking about. I'm sure they were rough, but keeping a 2 year old away from their mother for weeks at a time due to a knee problem isn't really credible to me. Maybe he or his mother is simply remembering some details wrong. But why is it us that finds that memory strange and not him?

 

[marduk]

Doug

While I appreciate the fact that rural hospitals in days past might have had somewhat draconian policies compared to today, this isn't really what I was talking about. I'm sure they were rough, but keeping a 2 year old away from their mother for weeks at a time due to a knee problem isn't really credible to me. Maybe he or his mother is simply remembering some details wrong. But why is it us that finds that memory strange and not him?

I don't know what to say except that you weren't there. When I heard that I thought it was extreme but not unheard of.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Doug

I don't know what to say except that you weren't there. When I heard that I thought it was extreme but not unheard of.

Also remember that Doug's dad worked for the military, so he was likely accustomed to taking orders, even if those orders seemed way out in left field.

 

[marduk]

Doug

Also remember that Doug's dad worked for the military, so he was likely accustomed to taking orders, even if those orders seemed way out in left field.

Oh, I can almost guarantee Doug's dad could have seen him if he wanted to. That's just the kind of way it was. However his dad might not have. Different time.