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April 12th Show
- Thread starter sk4p
- Start date
Free episodes:
agsouthtexas
Skilled Investigator
im tempted to listen live but ill wait. thanks for sharing. looking forward to hearing it!
P
Paul Kimball
Guest
So these guys dont have the credibility in the crop circle field(intended) that someone Like Nancy Talbot and BLT Research do?
Will listen to the podcast later today.
I'm not sure how much credibility Talbott and BLT really have, but...
I think Nick Redfern is right - crop circles are all man-made, but some few also have a paranormal aspect to them as well.
PK
Gareth
Nothin' to see here
nah
I know what you mean. But I dont give the crop circle makers enough credit to have made some circles.
How does Nick explain the whole "swirl pattern, and blown-out node" circles? I know that some circle makers report weird shit while making them like those little light balls etc. But that doesnt explain the nodes and swirls. (AFAIK)
I know what you mean. But I dont give the crop circle makers enough credit to have made some circles.
How does Nick explain the whole "swirl pattern, and blown-out node" circles? I know that some circle makers report weird shit while making them like those little light balls etc. But that doesnt explain the nodes and swirls. (AFAIK)
Kevin Daly
Skilled Investigator
I was only a few minutes in when they dragged the Native Americans into it and my internal HUD (OK I don't really have one of those) started flashing "New Age Bullshit Level: Critical" warnings everywhere.
The confidence with which they talked about "non man-made" circles was off-putting enough: how could you really, really know? There are too many assumptions about what can and can't be done - it's the same kind of thinking that gives us "I personally have no idea how to build a pyramid so obviously aliens/Atlanteans/Lemurians/Smurfs did it".
The coincidence with "sacred sites" suggests human agency, not otherwise as they obviously assume.
The preponderance of crop circles in England is damning in itself: why would a non-human agency concentrate its efforts in the part of the tiny island of Britain corresponding with the human cultural and administrative artefact known as "England"? Are we to expect that aliens (or the daoine sí, Tylwyth Teg or ylfe for that matter) find it useful to have a concept of England? (consider how the colonial powers dealt with Africa if you're having trouble answering that one).
I'm sure William Blake if he were alive today could come up with something appropriately uplifting: "And did those saucers in ancient times...".
From which it can be guessed that I can't see any compelling reason not to regard at least the overwhelming majority of crop circles as fake, and saying more about human concerns and themes than anything any non-human intelligence may want to communicate to us.
That said, I do think that like the aforementioned sacred sites they may attract strangeness like rotten meat attracts flies. The truth has a way of being untidy, and seldom unconditional.
The confidence with which they talked about "non man-made" circles was off-putting enough: how could you really, really know? There are too many assumptions about what can and can't be done - it's the same kind of thinking that gives us "I personally have no idea how to build a pyramid so obviously aliens/Atlanteans/Lemurians/Smurfs did it".
The coincidence with "sacred sites" suggests human agency, not otherwise as they obviously assume.
The preponderance of crop circles in England is damning in itself: why would a non-human agency concentrate its efforts in the part of the tiny island of Britain corresponding with the human cultural and administrative artefact known as "England"? Are we to expect that aliens (or the daoine sí, Tylwyth Teg or ylfe for that matter) find it useful to have a concept of England? (consider how the colonial powers dealt with Africa if you're having trouble answering that one).
I'm sure William Blake if he were alive today could come up with something appropriately uplifting: "And did those saucers in ancient times...".
From which it can be guessed that I can't see any compelling reason not to regard at least the overwhelming majority of crop circles as fake, and saying more about human concerns and themes than anything any non-human intelligence may want to communicate to us.
That said, I do think that like the aforementioned sacred sites they may attract strangeness like rotten meat attracts flies. The truth has a way of being untidy, and seldom unconditional.
SyS_Config
Skilled Investigator
Interesting. Thank you DB for keeping it focused. The guests were intelligent and sincere. They certainly demonstrated how complicated the topic was.
They are happy and enthusiastic about what what they do. The eastern influence, seemed to have filled the lack of structured traditional or "classical" western Christian background, and iinfluenced them somewhat. People project what God is, he said, but isn't that what , according to them crop circles are?, projections of collective consciousness, superconscious, interactive at that.
The difficulty I have then is telling ours , from The universal co creators, or even the superconscious., with the same applying to ETs, it seems. Little too deep for me.I like the way you made a very sincere effort to bring their understanding of what they were finding in their trek for the meaning of these phenomena, and in a way their own search for God.The Poltergeist phenomena mentioned is probably a topic by itself, but interesting if considering the effect of collective intent as a a possibility.
I don't know if that is the case for the patterns to come out so organized.
But who knows.
No woo woos here, just good conversation, and gave a chance to see one of many aspects to this whole thing.
I didn't get an answer to my initial questions, but in a way, figured that drone material came down when it became evident that matter was a hoax.
The language used tonight on design though was eerily familiar.
Merely surfers catchin a wave, back then, its a big beach.
Cheers
They are happy and enthusiastic about what what they do. The eastern influence, seemed to have filled the lack of structured traditional or "classical" western Christian background, and iinfluenced them somewhat. People project what God is, he said, but isn't that what , according to them crop circles are?, projections of collective consciousness, superconscious, interactive at that.
The difficulty I have then is telling ours , from The universal co creators, or even the superconscious., with the same applying to ETs, it seems. Little too deep for me.I like the way you made a very sincere effort to bring their understanding of what they were finding in their trek for the meaning of these phenomena, and in a way their own search for God.The Poltergeist phenomena mentioned is probably a topic by itself, but interesting if considering the effect of collective intent as a a possibility.
I don't know if that is the case for the patterns to come out so organized.
But who knows.
No woo woos here, just good conversation, and gave a chance to see one of many aspects to this whole thing.
I didn't get an answer to my initial questions, but in a way, figured that drone material came down when it became evident that matter was a hoax.
The language used tonight on design though was eerily familiar.
Merely surfers catchin a wave, back then, its a big beach.
Cheers
DrLogic
Skilled Investigator
<meta http-equiv="CONTENT-TYPE" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> <title></title> <meta name="GENERATOR" content="OpenOffice.org 3.0 (Unix)"> <style type="text/css"> <!-- @page { margin: 2cm } P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm } --> </style> Well I got through the 2 hours of the 'egocentric Ed and shut up Kris I'm talking' show, I don't know whether I need a hug, a medal...or both!
I didn't find much of it credible to be honest. It reminded me of LMH in a way, i.e. Doing some credible research then expecting a pass on all the wacky stuff.
This is what happens when someone makes an assumption, starts peddling it as fact in their own mind, then makes other assumptions on top of it, rince and repeat . To the point where, after 20 years of work you have a sturdy table of scientific research (last looked at 15+ years ago evidently) on top of which is a house of cards made entirely out of jokers.
I didn't care much for the heavy use of the words right and wrong being weaved in and out of such a subjective hypothesis, especially where they had nothing to back it up. The whole affirmation scenario was complete cobblers IMO, as he didn't appear to know the difference between deconstructing and deciphering. One could deconstruct any crop circle into one's own subjective constituent parts and come up with thousands of so called affirmations, suffice to say I don't think he has deciphered anything.
Lastly I think they were being a bit 'economical' with the truth with respect to the direction that they are coming at the subject. Reading their website I got the distinct impression that a pseudo-Christian/Pagan religious belief pre-dates and/or is mixed in with their research, of which any 'affirmations' look to be feeding some preconceived ideas here (aka 'what the bleep' style).
It's a shame really as I think there is enough circumstantial evidence in crop circles for someone who is actually interested in finding out truth behind them (i.e. not these guys), to do some insteresting scientic research, even if it meant proving that they are all man made. Might I suggest a new website, cropcirclequestions.com perhaps? :shy:
I didn't find much of it credible to be honest. It reminded me of LMH in a way, i.e. Doing some credible research then expecting a pass on all the wacky stuff.
This is what happens when someone makes an assumption, starts peddling it as fact in their own mind, then makes other assumptions on top of it, rince and repeat . To the point where, after 20 years of work you have a sturdy table of scientific research (last looked at 15+ years ago evidently) on top of which is a house of cards made entirely out of jokers.
I didn't care much for the heavy use of the words right and wrong being weaved in and out of such a subjective hypothesis, especially where they had nothing to back it up. The whole affirmation scenario was complete cobblers IMO, as he didn't appear to know the difference between deconstructing and deciphering. One could deconstruct any crop circle into one's own subjective constituent parts and come up with thousands of so called affirmations, suffice to say I don't think he has deciphered anything.
Lastly I think they were being a bit 'economical' with the truth with respect to the direction that they are coming at the subject. Reading their website I got the distinct impression that a pseudo-Christian/Pagan religious belief pre-dates and/or is mixed in with their research, of which any 'affirmations' look to be feeding some preconceived ideas here (aka 'what the bleep' style).
It's a shame really as I think there is enough circumstantial evidence in crop circles for someone who is actually interested in finding out truth behind them (i.e. not these guys), to do some insteresting scientic research, even if it meant proving that they are all man made. Might I suggest a new website, cropcirclequestions.com perhaps? :shy:
magican2009
Paranormal Novice
The Crop Circle Couple rocked! Specious science, quoting one's own lectures as "evidence", tales of death threats, special covert black operations, et al.
With those English accents I was waiting for them to break into an infomercial at any moment.
"Our crop circles are personal, portable and precognitive! That's right, unlike artificial crop circles that are poorly made, ours come with the stamp of approval from the collective consciousness of the universal heavens! But wait!! You can also play 20 questions with our crop circles, and they will wink at you when you are correct!"
Did you notice how DB said, "It was fun," at the end of the interview? I think that was a very polite way of dismissing.
Anyway, thank you for another show guys.
With those English accents I was waiting for them to break into an infomercial at any moment.
"Our crop circles are personal, portable and precognitive! That's right, unlike artificial crop circles that are poorly made, ours come with the stamp of approval from the collective consciousness of the universal heavens! But wait!! You can also play 20 questions with our crop circles, and they will wink at you when you are correct!"
Did you notice how DB said, "It was fun," at the end of the interview? I think that was a very polite way of dismissing.
Anyway, thank you for another show guys.
kipspritely
Skilled Investigator
Only a small percent are created by extra terrestrials? Really? How the HELL do these kooks know that? When David would ask them direct question and they would jump all over the place sandwiching supposed hard research (with no data to back it up) with crazy conjecture.
They keep citing the secret life of plants and those experiments that have no bearing on the crop circle problem.
Also, they claim to have decipher the circles. This seems a little um like guessing.
They keep citing the secret life of plants and those experiments that have no bearing on the crop circle problem.
Also, they claim to have decipher the circles. This seems a little um like guessing.
Blacknight
Seeker
I'm hoping the good news is that there won't be any more discussion about crop circles on The Paracast for a few years. I find few topics more useless and time-abusive than one dealing with pretty drawings in fields, and I really don't enjoy the breathless quest for meaning most of the "experts" seem to display. The whole subject is so...what's the right word?...GOOFY! Bottom of the subject barrel, but I suspect the barrel needs to be cleaned out from time-to-time.
Rocketsauce
Haagen-Dazs Addict
Wowsers.......... haven't finished the show yet, but the guy reminds me of Karl Pilkington from Ricky Gervais podcasts -
Some of his general concepts and ideas are interesting and food for thought (mass consciousness creating circles etc....), but his confidence in what he says with extremely weak speculative self fulfilling evidence seems self absorbed. Kind of like Greer claiming his meditation led to the big Phoenix triangle UFO sighting.
He reminds me of Greer in the way he kind of acts like he's going to dispel a critique of his theory only to spew more week linkages based on selective research, speculation and observation. I couldn't tell if it was because I have bad allergies and had a tiring weekend or because he wasn't really offering anything of substance, but I just had trouble absorbing what he was saying.
Perhaps if his material was presented in a more scientific way like Ted Phillips where he said something like, "based on the 5,000 cases we researched, the soil samples from 10% of those showed x and therefore we speculate this percentage are different from those that are obviously man made based on Y....", I would be more prone to absorb something.
He might actually be correct about some things or have really legit theories, but it's hard to take anything he says seriously with all the proclaimed answers based on what appear to be weak linkages in comparison to real scientific data.
I would argue that each of our individual lives have way more "clues" to the general consciousness theory than crop circles, but even so, there is no way to really prove this in a predictable manner.
Some of his general concepts and ideas are interesting and food for thought (mass consciousness creating circles etc....), but his confidence in what he says with extremely weak speculative self fulfilling evidence seems self absorbed. Kind of like Greer claiming his meditation led to the big Phoenix triangle UFO sighting.
He reminds me of Greer in the way he kind of acts like he's going to dispel a critique of his theory only to spew more week linkages based on selective research, speculation and observation. I couldn't tell if it was because I have bad allergies and had a tiring weekend or because he wasn't really offering anything of substance, but I just had trouble absorbing what he was saying.
Perhaps if his material was presented in a more scientific way like Ted Phillips where he said something like, "based on the 5,000 cases we researched, the soil samples from 10% of those showed x and therefore we speculate this percentage are different from those that are obviously man made based on Y....", I would be more prone to absorb something.
He might actually be correct about some things or have really legit theories, but it's hard to take anything he says seriously with all the proclaimed answers based on what appear to be weak linkages in comparison to real scientific data.
I would argue that each of our individual lives have way more "clues" to the general consciousness theory than crop circles, but even so, there is no way to really prove this in a predictable manner.
Schuyler
Misanthrope
This guy has internalized crop circles so that it’s not all about crop circles; it’s all about him. They even follow him around across continents and give him personalized answers to his ruminations, which he alone can interpret because of his vast knowledge and research of symbology from all cultures. He’s his own feedback loop when he starts extrapolating to modern physics and comparing the Big Bang to God talking the universe into existence.
It reminds me of the growth of the early Christian church (and probably others). At first it was about individuals’ personal experiences, but it turned into a hierarchical institution where only the priests could interpret the Bible and symbols of the church. Christianity was interpreted though the priesthood. This guy has set himself up his own religion.
Here’s an example from his web site:
“Nine months after the spectacular East Field ‘Crop Circle Pictogram’ of 1990, I discovered that the ‘Intelligence’ behind its creation, was the ‘Infinite Intelligence’ of God, also known as; ‘The Nine Principles & Forces’ of God’; ‘The Nine Creation Gods’; and ‘The Nine Dragons’ (Ref. 1, 2, & 2.) Represented in the timing, placing, geometry, mathematics, and design symbolism of many formations, ‘The Nine’ have been symbolized in every crop circle season since the early 1980s, including 1997.
Maybe he's right. I don't know. He certainly thinks he's right. Lots of big words and vast pronouncements. Little substance.
It reminds me of the growth of the early Christian church (and probably others). At first it was about individuals’ personal experiences, but it turned into a hierarchical institution where only the priests could interpret the Bible and symbols of the church. Christianity was interpreted though the priesthood. This guy has set himself up his own religion.
Here’s an example from his web site:
“Nine months after the spectacular East Field ‘Crop Circle Pictogram’ of 1990, I discovered that the ‘Intelligence’ behind its creation, was the ‘Infinite Intelligence’ of God, also known as; ‘The Nine Principles & Forces’ of God’; ‘The Nine Creation Gods’; and ‘The Nine Dragons’ (Ref. 1, 2, & 2.) Represented in the timing, placing, geometry, mathematics, and design symbolism of many formations, ‘The Nine’ have been symbolized in every crop circle season since the early 1980s, including 1997.
Maybe he's right. I don't know. He certainly thinks he's right. Lots of big words and vast pronouncements. Little substance.
ickymicky
Paranormal Novice
Both guests seem pretty confident they had the answers from the realms of spirituality and psychic observance. From what started out as information on the data they observed, which began to interest me, it turned into another new age theory mingled with psuedo-science. The stuff he was saying can't be verified by any of us, and can't give me a single reference point to start from, to even begin to comprehend just what the FUCK he was going on about.
And just the idea that you are going into a situation with a mind free and clean of opinions and preconceived notions yet believe you have the psychic ability to pick up the presence of UFOs, Ghosts, and to tap into the collective consciousness of humanity tells me there is a huge contradiction there. If you believe you are going to pick up psychic vibes, you can believe or say anything you want based on your personal reaction to the environment.
Good show. I liked the guests, don't get me wrong, and I'm not say that their belief isn't possible, but geez...
And just the idea that you are going into a situation with a mind free and clean of opinions and preconceived notions yet believe you have the psychic ability to pick up the presence of UFOs, Ghosts, and to tap into the collective consciousness of humanity tells me there is a huge contradiction there. If you believe you are going to pick up psychic vibes, you can believe or say anything you want based on your personal reaction to the environment.
Good show. I liked the guests, don't get me wrong, and I'm not say that their belief isn't possible, but geez...
Brian Now
Paranormal Pimp
Well then, this is another episode I will pass on. Experience around here shows if this many people have problems with a guest than I will too.
I think the topic, crop circles, is moderately interesting but I think Blacknight said it best here...
There's just no point in studying these things anymore. If God, aliens, interdimensional minds, nature spirits or whatever want to give us signs they need to wise up and make some that we can't create ourselves. Then, and only then, will there be something to study.
I think the topic, crop circles, is moderately interesting but I think Blacknight said it best here...
There's just no point in studying these things anymore. If God, aliens, interdimensional minds, nature spirits or whatever want to give us signs they need to wise up and make some that we can't create ourselves. Then, and only then, will there be something to study.
Particle Physicist
Paranormal Novice
Just a simple comment:
The Electromagnetic Spectrum does not contain sound as sound has no electromagnetic properties.
Back to the show, only 1 hour in.
The Electromagnetic Spectrum does not contain sound as sound has no electromagnetic properties.
Back to the show, only 1 hour in.
Blacknight
Seeker
LOOK! If you're going to introduce facts into this then how are we expected to pretend to follow the gibbering pseudo-science?
thefoundryman
chrono-synclastically infundibulated
No one has bothered to mention the photo from the website, that CLEARLY is an insect in the foreground, captured in digital flash photography, 'hovering' above a researcher's head in the background. Ed, if you read this, please take that down.
To play devil's advocate for a second, man they've done some impressive scientific fact gathering here, even if the overlying-belief template does not fit my own.
I thought it was an intense discussion.
Gene, that question about how to get started making crop circles, "Do I just show up with my lawnmower?" , That was the best laugh I had all day.
To play devil's advocate for a second, man they've done some impressive scientific fact gathering here, even if the overlying-belief template does not fit my own.
I thought it was an intense discussion.
Gene, that question about how to get started making crop circles, "Do I just show up with my lawnmower?" , That was the best laugh I had all day.
To those who seem to argue that crop-circles should be beneath our dignity, I'd say that there are several eye-witness testimonies (all from Britain AFAIK) who describe that the circle was formed within seconds (half a minute) from a "whirl-wind" like phenomenon.
I have collected many such testimonies in my "video library". Some of the earliest ones (before the 1980s craze) were aired in Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World episode on CC. Listen to the lady around 0:50:
I have collected many such testimonies in my "video library". Some of the earliest ones (before the 1980s craze) were aired in Arthur C. Clarke's Mysterious World episode on CC. Listen to the lady around 0:50: