Jan Harzan

[wwkirk]

Jan seems like a good pick for MUFON, though he will retain the status quo in many respects. For example, the organization will not become more democratic. Also, his answer regarding MUFON conferences simply towed the party line. And I think he evaded the question about hypnosis.

 

[Pierre]

I thought it was very funny the way he responded to the question about Steven Greer...

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Politically correct. He wasn't going to admit that MUFON screwed up in having someone like Greer as a featured speaker.

 

[FletcherMunson]

Mr. Harzan's answer to the question about making MUFON more democratic was striking. Basically, you just have to work your way up through the organization for twenty years until you have the opportunity to become the MUFON figure head...? I suppose that is one way to do it.

Also, I agree with the others about his answer to the question about Dr. Greer. Watch his DVD and you'll change your mind...? Some big name Greer detractors came up to Mr. Harzan and said their minds were changed by the good doctor's presentation but, of course, Mr. Harzan will not mention their names on the air. Oh, okay. Well that is helpful -- especially since I have already viewed Dr. Greer's "documentaries" and that is the precise reason that I am skeptical of each and every one of his claims.

When will people stop giving figures like Dr. Greer a pass for being a good showman? The Von Daniken conversation made me feel the same way. If we are supposed to trust people like Mr. Harzan and Mr. Hanks to be two of the new leaders in ufology, how should we view these men in light of their obvious blind spots when it comes to hucksters who sell tickets. I understand that they look the other way because of the cash that these carnival barkers bring in to their conferences. It's just disappointing, and it makes me believe that any chance that ufology had of being taken seriously is probably lost.

While I suppose many people still view MUFON as a viable entity, it's conversations like this that make talking about MUFON as a real force in UFO research feel like teaching Latin as the international business language.

 

[Pierre]

I think this is an appropriate time to repost this picture:

 

[dr.abbadon]

Politically correct. He wasn't going to admit that MUFON screwed up in having someone like Greer as a featured speaker.

So he's a charlatan? I'm sure he has managed to separate a dollar or two or 3 thousand from gullible people who want to believe that he can whistle for a ufo like a taxi. I'm not saying I'm defending him. He managed to prize $10 from me for the sirius doco ffs!

The thing is that Jan says he made a presentation that was worthy of being among some of the best presentations of the convention. Why can't you accept that for what it's worth?

My concern during the interview was how Jan brushed off Bigalow's undoubted and well documented influence over the organisation. What else is the guy going to say though?

Interesting interview, one of the better interviews of late.

 

[FletcherMunson]

I agree about Mr. Harzan's answer about Mr. Bigelow's involvement with MUFON, dr.abbadon. It seems as though Mr. Harzan has either learned a lesson from what happened to James Carrion when he questioned the billionaire's relationship with MUFON, or Mr. Harzan actually believes what he is saying. Or, maybe it's both. Who knows. It just seems like Mr. Bigelow has been, on balance, a more negative than positive influence on the subject. And, Mr. Harzan's unwillingness or inability to address the inequality of MUFON's relationship with the billionaire is troubling.

And, while I understand that it is important to take Mr. Harzan's impression of Dr. Greer from the latter's presentation for what it's worth (as one person's opinion), isn't it also a bit disconcerting to know that Mr. Harzan's BS meter is that faulty? Taking the cash out of the equation (which no one in this field seems to be able to do), Dr. Greer is a liar. His little alien was a hoax. His "documentaries" are Times Square sidewalk shell games designed to squeeze every last dime that's left in and bit of notoriety from the UFO subject.

Of course, Dr. Greer can do whatever he wants to sell wolf tickets. Hey, I enjoy good science fiction as much as the next person! But when the one of the leading figures of the one supposedly legitimate UFO organization buys into the barking, it does not seem to bode well for the future progression of the subject.

But, maybe I'm wrong. I know there are people out there who think any publicity is good publicity for the attention-starved UFO field. And, to those people, maybe attention equals cash, which then leads to more research. I can see where they might get that idea, but I'm just not one of those people.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Good points all. Thanks for sharing.

 

[GDT]

I agree about Mr. Harzan's answer about Mr. Bigelow's involvement with MUFON, dr.abbadon. It seems as though Mr. Harzan has either learned a lesson from what happened to James Carrion when he questioned the billionaire's relationship with MUFON, or Mr. Harzan actually believes what he is saying. Or, maybe it's both. Who knows. It just seems like Mr. Bigelow has been, on balance, a more negative than positive influence on the subject. And, Mr. Harzan's unwillingness or inability to address the inequality of MUFON's relationship with the billionaire is troubling.

And, while I understand that it is important to take Mr. Harzan's impression of Dr. Greer from the latter's presentation for what it's worth (as one person's opinion), isn't it also a bit disconcerting to know that Mr. Harzan's BS meter is that faulty? Taking the cash out of the equation (which no one in this field seems to be able to do), Dr. Greer is a liar. His little alien was a hoax. His "documentaries" are Times Square sidewalk shell games designed to squeeze every last dime that's left in and bit of notoriety from the UFO subject.

Of course, Dr. Greer can do whatever he wants to sell wolf tickets. Hey, I enjoy good science fiction as much as the next person! But when the one of the leading figures of the one supposedly legitimate UFO organization buys into the barking, it does not seem to bode well for the future progression of the subject.

But, maybe I'm wrong. I know there are people out there who think any publicity is good publicity for the attention-starved UFO field. And, to those people, maybe attention equals cash, which then leads to more research. I can see where they might get that idea, but I'm just not one of those people.

SO true... it sounded like he believes Greers Bull shit.. I believe most of MUFON is just as wo wo as Greer, Alfred Weber and the like... I had email correspondence with the previous head of Mufon, over the absolute crazies being interviewed on California Mufon radio podcast. He agreed that they/he had to do something about these people, but never did... Maybe that's why he quit? The following is part of our correspondence..

To: [email protected]
Subject: MUFON reputation

My friends and I were looking into joining Mufon as we believed it was a serious organization that used scientific methods in their investigation? Obviously common sense would be a necessary part of the above scenario, but after listening to a California Mufon Radio show where your Mufon rep. OH'ed and Awh'ed over a nut and his channeling story how he was abducted for months and the alien told him, through the channeler, that the reason they contacted him was because he was the oldest, wisest most powerful soul on earth chosen to bring their message to earth..... we shut it off and went looking for a more serious organization...

That type of endorsement is a joke, perhaps you should get Billy Meier to be your spokesmen on MooFun Europe???

Shame on you for making this phenomenon a joke through your radio show.

This is his reply


Dear Mr. XXXXXX;

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. We could no agree more!

We are trying VERY hard to root out and eliminate this blending of “Paranormal foolishness” and MUFON’s true mission which is “The Scientific investigation of the UFO phenomenon for the benefit of humanity”.

Do you by any chance remember the “MUFON Rep’s” name or any details that we can use to track this incident down?

Please do not judge the entire Organization by the crazed ranting of a few. We are doing our best to eliminate this element.

Sincerely;

David MacDonald

Executive Director


I think the WOWooos have taken over Mufon, perhaps one of the best places to control and help make the whole UFO thing a joke, because damn if you do have a sighting or worse and you do a little internet searching and run across the nuts being promoted at Mufons meetings and even on their podcast radio show...... you would never call and report what you saw, not to those nuts.... Is there any wonder UFOs can fly over places like Chicago OHare airport and all the witnesses disappear???

 

[DaveM]

Mr. Harzan is in the wrong line of work. He answered every question the way a seasoned politician would. He wasn't about to admit to any errors on MUFON's part. His point about working your way up the ladder to the top spot of MUFON was laughable at best (just put your twenty years in). Once I heard how Harzan was answering questions I knew he would never besmirch the good name of Dr. Greer. I got the impression that anything that could be a cash cow for MUFON is alright with Mr. Harzan.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

From Royce Myers, the UFO Watchdog guy:

ufowatchdog.com: MUFON Promotes Greer Nonsense

 

[Gene Steinberg]

And don't want to prolong this, but meet the new host, same as the old host:

Dr. Greer on the New Art Bell Show
3 hours of fascinating discussion about ideas.Tuesday September 17, 2013 - 7 pm pacific - 10 pm pacific
10 pm eastern - 1 am. eastern

Sigh!

 

[DaveM]

After Dr. Greer, look for Ed Dames in short order...

 

[Pararescueman]

When you have a controversial such as UFOs coupled with a organization like MUFON, you have recipe for disaster. MUFON likes to see itself as the go-to orgazation when the media has questions about the subject of UFOs. I see a organization only concerned with how much money they can make, who cares about the background speakers. Organizations like MUFON, this includes their new leader Jan Harzan only sets the field of UFOs back 70 years.
When questioned about about the Steven Greer, Harzan failed to address it at face value. The only thing he presneted was 3 unnamed skeptics that where converted by his eloquent presentation. Does anyone really honestly believe that? Gene I thought you missed a golden opportunity to press him on Greer. MUFON and Harzan can not be taken seriously when controversial speakers are aloud spew their garbage.
The really bad thing is you may actually some researchers that have some legitimate evidence. All goes that goes by the way side when the stage is shared by charlatans.

There are other problems with his story as well. He wants us to believe that ET visited him and his brother because they working some antigravity nuclear propulsion at 8-10 years old. I also liked his answer to reason the reason of not making MUFON more democratic, that they didn't want it to be a popularity contest. What rock has he been under, isn't every election a popularity contest coupled with deep pockets? The quicker organization like MUFON go extinct, the better.

 

[Randall]

... The quicker organization like MUFON go extinct, the better.

Because I'm part of another organization, I'll probably be perceived as biased; nevertheless I find it disconcerting that MUFON is going to start a massive social networking campaign to enlist young people without first fixing their image as purveyors of pseudoscience. Without substantial verifiable empirical evidence, scientific analysis is not possible, yet through the use of their motto "The Scientific Study Of UFOs for the Benefit of Humanity" MUFON is continuing to imply that they are actually studying such evidence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to my knowledge MUFON has no such evidence, and neither does anyone else in the public realm. Therefore MUFON cannot possibly be contributing any real science.

Add to the above the extra irony that Harzan includes UFOs in the paranormal. By definition the paranormal is something that by its very nature is unable to be explained scientifically. So their motto is essentially saying that they are scientifically studying something that cannot be studied scientifically. Does anyone else sense a problem in their critical thinking department? But don't worry, all you need to do to fix the problem is engage in a decades long quest to climb the MUFON ladder of politics and bureaucracy. It would make more sense to simply start your own group ( now why didn't I think of that ).

Even more worrisome were Harzan's comments on hypnotic regression that were connected to MUFON's reporter on the 2011 - 2012 Kansas sightings, who had deemed Arcturus was a UFO, even though a telescope on the scene with automatic tracking had clearly identified the object as Arcturus. I was also concerned about his apparent unsubstantiated belief in dubious claims such as being able to "take ET home" because "errors in the equations" have solved interstellar travel.

My confidence continued its slide when he cited the November 5th, 1975, Apache-Sitgreaves National Forest incident ( commonly called the Walton abduction case ) as possibly the best UFO case on record. That case along with APRO's non-disclosure of Walton's failed lie detector test apparently resulted in a significant number of defections from APRO to MUFON. How ironic that nearly four decades later MUFON's international director would give the Walton case so much credence.

But the show didn't end there. Harzan descended even further by suggesting that theories involving higher dimensions could be connected with various paranormal phenomena. Is MUFON merging with the quantum mystics now? The only reason I might have for joining MUFON is to keep tabs on them in the hope that they won't do even more damage to ufology on top of what has already been done. Thankfully, because of @Gene Steinberg and @Christopher O'Brien I don't have to do that. Gene's pressing questions on Greer were also well stated and deserving of a better answer than Harzan provided.

To close this comment on a more positive note, I will say that I was very glad to hear that Chris' SLV project had received some support, and that last time I checked, the MUFON field investigator course was really quite good, and successful graduates can still apply to USI ( which has no membership dues or demotivating political constraints ) for a no-cost transfer of their course credits to USI. If accepted USI will issue a field investigator ID card and an couple of other free goodies.

 

[Steve Zalewski]

September 17, 2013

To Pierre,

Thank you for posting the "portrait" of Steven Greer. The laughs generated by it are priceless. I have already sent this page with Greer's photo off to other UFO researchers. In light of Greer's outrageous philosophies, I don't think he is fit to practice medicine in the future and his license should be forfeited. (I'm well aware that Greer is not a physician now he gave up medicine to run his CSETI cult.)

To the people who criticized and blasted MUFON, all that I can say is Bravo. Thank you for speaking out. While I realize that you are not happy with MUFON have you considered supporting the J. Allen Hynek Center For UFO Studies. Go to cufos.org for more information.

Steve Zalewski,
Syracuse, NY

 

[Burnt State]

Are any UFO organizations still relevant at all (no offence, ufology)? Isn't it all a big saucer smear right now? In the digital age, these organizations that want to be central hubs of information, are anachronistic. This is the age of decentred, indfferent and random information access, where no one believes in anything or cares to. What does the average teen think about UFO's or their potential significance? The topic itself dissolves into the distance of pop culture movie references and nothing more.

MUFON needs popularity and cash to survive and continue the fading dream of the importance and relevance of UFO's themselves. While the majority probably believe in their existence, they also probably don't care that much one way or the other. Only the hardcore believers in their 40's and beyond appear to be bit by a bug from previous decades. I did not hear about anything that would sustain, renew or build interest right now for the next generations, but I did hear how being political can work as a survival strategy for this organization.

Highlights for me from this episode:

• The skunkworks "we can get ET home" discussion right from the horse's mouth - a great anecdote
• Chris got support for the SLV camera project from them - good to know practical pursuits are being achieved.
• Jan's personal witness story - very vivid with a surreal touch of the floating alien!
• Travis Walton continues to stand out as the unique case in the minds of many - seems that this story continues to resonate across time.

 

[Randall]

Are any UFO organizations still relevant at all (no offence, ufology)? Isn't it all a big saucer smear right now? In the digital age, these organizations that want to be central hubs of information, are anachronistic. This is the age of decentred, indfferent and random information access, where no one believes in anything or cares to. What does the average teen think about UFO's or their potential significance? The topic itself dissolves into the distance of pop culture movie references and nothing more.

Hey no offense taken. It's a valid question to ask if any UFO organizations are relevant, and to propose that perhaps in today's culture it's difficult if not impossible to be relevant. My response is that I don't know what the "average teen" thinks about UFOs, but I am completely confident that if the average teen has an encounter with an alien craft, it's going to make more than a small impact on them. Teens aren't so different today that they're going to just slough it off as irrelevant, and they're going to want solid answers. I can't speak for MUFON, but that's what makes the group I'm with relevant. Those who have never had a UFO experience and could care less can go on living their mundane lives. I'm not out to convert them.

MUFON needs popularity and cash to survive and continue the fading dream of the importance and relevance of UFO's themselves. While the majority probably believe in their existence, they also probably don't care that much one way or the other. Only the hardcore believers in their 40's and beyond appear to be bit by a bug from previous decades. I did not hear about anything that would sustain, renew or build interest right now for the next generations, but I did hear how being political can work as a survival strategy for this organization.

I think being political is the biggest threat to their survival. What young person today wants to become part of yet another walled in bureaucracy? A social networking campaign might generate some interest, but as soon as those participants realize that they're being used like pawns, I shiver to think how badly it could backfire. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

Highlights for me from this episode:

• The skunkworks "we can get ET home" discussion right from the horse's mouth - a great anecdote
• Chris got support for the SLV camera project from them - good to know practical pursuits are being achieved.
• Jan's personal witness story - very vivid with a surreal touch of the floating alien!
• Travis Walton continues to stand out as the unique case in the minds of many - seems that this story continues to resonate across time.

I liked Harzan's personal story too, but some of his experiences go back to when he was really young, and it made me wonder how he could recall those things so clearly. Not that I should talk. I've had similar things happen all the way back to when I was in grade 2. But I'd want to know more before deciding whether or not I should grant him the benefit of the doubt, like did he have help from some hypnotist in recalling the information? The fact that @Christopher O'Brien was sticking up for him was a BIG plus in my books. It gives Harzan some credibility.

 

[Rizla]

That's one hell of a childhood sighting. Common games of kids in the 70's, look there's a UFO. Get camera. Whoops, it's gone.I'm sorry, I just can't take this story at face value, and there's this ufological sincere-me thing going on, plus diversions of stories that aren't related to the question asked, the little laughs, all the boasting about scientific work and the badasses at MIT or whatever, etc.. Oh, MUFON shall impress the youth with their gravitas -- hell, MUFON hasn't impressed their peers for decades! Covering up Gulf Breeze? Mentioning David Jacobs as a great genius? The brains left this building long ago.

I loved hearing of Mr. Harzan's happy, historic, heroic rise from lowly Journal Subscriber to State Section Director to board to sic transit gloria mundi moment of International Director, just like Walt! Epic! 25 years ago, he was a mere fan at LAX, bathing in the glory of Ufology… Now, he's the Executive Director! A path anyone could take! The show's worth a listen for that section alone. (1:20 et. seq.) Get involved and you could do it too and really be somebody! Is this man serious? Does he realize what a drag this epic ladder-climbing journey sounds like to an intelligent kid today? First we dazzle the youth in with magic apps, then the kids will follow Mr. Harzan and his ace researchers up a ludicrous kiss-arse hierarchy?

Priceless, great radio. Gene, how did you keep a straight face!

Ufology and Pararescue, your points are all really good. MUFON may be the last org to fade, and for me, that story about Greer and that BS about the "scientists who apologized" , give me a frickin' break. I can't even watch Greer for amusement, he's perhaps the most irritating, awful UFO personality in history, which is saying something.

The show was epic Paracast entertainment, however. The stories kept a-comin'!

I wouldn't bet millions of rubles on the depth of Chris and Gene's sticking up for (what can only be dubbed) "stories". We can take the ET's home now, no problem? We must remember that for many of us the PCast is unique radio entertainment as much if not more than "research", and I personally do NOT believe that aliens buzzed him and his brother at age 8 'cause the aliens so respected their youthful nuclear research.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

…The show was epic Paracast entertainment, however. The stories kept a-comin'!

Glad you were amused and entertained. We will continue to bring noteworthy guests on the show to inform (and occasionally educate) our listeners; give everyone the opportunity to ask questions to see how they think and then make up your own minds about their POV.
Good to see you back Rizla!