Jan Harzan

[Han]

I think Mr Harzan came across as being genuine, and judging by his CV he is not in it for "money".
I think that because he must have recounted his "sighting" so many times (at MUFON meetings etc), it could sound a little too clean and rehearsed as a result. To be clear I believe he believes what he saw.
I also liked his story about being able to take e.t. home


If I am honest he reminded me of a football(soccer) manager(coach) in that he is held accountable for the "bad" behaviour of his "team".
I think the show had the correct balance, and some times, what some one does not say, says more than what they do say.

Lastly I really enjoyed the part where von daniken was discussed I have to say that I had previously thought he was the "original" source of the ancient alien hypothesis.

 

[Pierre]

Jan Harzan = Jane & Tarzan?

Can't help but make the connection every time I hear this guys name

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Good episode. I like this guy for a number of reasons but also agree with complaints about his comments on Greer. Making one good speech does not undo what he has done and he has done plenty of outright lying IMO.

Mr Harzan's recounting of the lecture by the outgoing Skunkworks engineer Ben Rich was interesting and it's historically fascinating that we have a new MUFON leader who was there, regardless of the truth of the implied things Ben Rich was saying.

I took careful note that Jan said that when some people stayed after the lecture to ask Ben some questions, especially about the 'take ET home' claim, he said that Mr Rich specified going to the stars within a lifetime - so no generational ships etc. Add to this the remark about the fixed mistake in 'the equations' and I am left going in only a couple of directions as to what those equations may govern.

Accepted barriers to inter-stellar travel are the fact that either spaceships would have to be able to refuel en-route, or leave with enough to start with and go a very long way indeed. In fact, I believe most people don't even have a clue just how far we are talking, in relation to our everyday lives. Also, Einstein showed that as you approach the speed of light, your requirement for energy input increases to such an extent it would make it totally impossible to add enough energy to the system to make it go faster and you would not reach the speed of light.

Either the speed of light is not an absolute speed limit, or the calculated need for an ever-increasing energy input to accelerate a given rest mass is wrong.

One other option I suppose could be that something to do with further dimensions could vastly decrease the distance needed to reach another star - a bit like jumping out of our 3 dimensions into another one in which there are some kind of short-cuts.

But then we had the enigmatic question answered by a question: 'Well how does ESP work?'
- answered with 'all points in space and time are linked' - to me this kinda goes down the Remote Viewing and 'spooky action at a distance'. If there is anything to RV, it must mean that vastly distance points in space and time can somehow be accessed virtually instantly. Who was it that said that there was a large mental or psychic component to flying saucers?

To me, this stuff is the most interesting, and mostly why I'm into UFOs - I wanna know if there are ways we will one day reach the stars without having to travel slowly for millenia etc. I strongly have the idea that UFOs -that is, non man-made ones - exist and that they do operate on some kind of technology that would allow space travel. Being the first and only country to be able to explore other worlds is reason enough to try to keep it all secret, to benefit from it in a greedy way. It is soooo likely that both rich and powerful people are in the know and those types do not care to share evenly amongst mankind - that is why UFOs are still secret stuff. We need to keep picking away at it all and not lose faith that one day, 'the rest of us' will get to know the truth. No X-Files soundbites, sorry!

 

[Burnt State]

I liked Harzan's personal story too, but some of his experiences go back to when he was really young, and it made me wonder how he could recall those things so clearly. Not that I should talk. I've had similar things happen all the way back to when I was in grade 2. But I'd want to know more before deciding whether or not I should grant him the benefit of the doubt, like did he have help from some hypnotist in recalling the information? The fact that @Christopher O'Brien was sticking up for him was a BIG plus in my books. It gives Harzan some credibility.

Mr. O'Brien is also a diplomat and displays class when required in his position as host, and he also has staked his ground regarding his own mentors which confuse many. Consequently it's an uneven affair sometimes. The other part of this episode I found fascinating though was his own involvement and approach to the entire Skinwalker ranch affair - seems to me he should be working on making bigger waves in the field. People like him, and Bishop even more so, don't have the output and volume of headliners, and one wonders if they had more time or resources to devote to the field what would they produce?

I was rethinking the childhood episode bit, especially in light of @Rizla 's outright disbelief. It's quite curious that Harzan has this succession of bizarre memories from childhood - so do I, as do many posters here at the forum. Those folk with imaginative minds are open to odd events and remember all strangeness from the early years, don't seem to get them as adults, and perhaps the whole thing just gets chalked up to the magic of childhood?

I don't doubt my own sighting and share Harzan's conviction of the event, but I question hypnosis being applied to any past memory and feel that we almost always rescript the other weird moments of our past to suit adult convictions and beliefs.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Mr. O'Brien is also a diplomat and displays class when required in his position as host, and he also has staked his ground regarding his own mentors which confuse many. Consequently it's an uneven affair sometimes. The other part of this episode I found fascinating though was his own involvement and approach to the entire Skinwalker ranch affair - seems to me he should be working on making bigger waves in the field. People like him, and Bishop even more so, don't have the output and volume of headliners, and one wonders if they had more time or resources to devote to the field what would they produce?

Hmm. As to my peripheral involvement in the SW ranch case, and the "output and volume of headliners," Sun Tsu advised, "The general who advances without coveting fame and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only thought is to protect his country [i.e., his ass] and do good service for his sovereign [truth], is the jewel of the kingdom." I've always admired and acknowledged Robert Bigelow's ground-breaking interest in such low-status "paranormal" subjects. A bit of a pioneer, he has spent millions of his own money to scientifically study these phenomena and he owns his acquired data. Biggie wears big Billion$steel-toed boots and he will do with it what he will. And that's fine by me—I'm not interested in stamping on any toes. I intuit there is much, much more to on-going SW ranch case than even I could probably imagine and I sincerely hope that someday the complete story will come out. As to "headlines" (CNN called Monday and is interested in taking my Sedona "UFO Tour/crash course, heh-heh),"and as to my "output," I'm getting excited about Stalking the Herd (my sixth book). I'm on the final stretch. Maybe I should post a couple of advance release excerpts and generate some feedback?

 

[dyingsun]

You always got Gene to tell you stories from his childhood in the paleolithic era ( ), awaiting your next book (though I guess what your ultimate conclusion will be), and Gene, ever thought of writing a book about your early encounters with such fascinating characters as Fortner, Moseley etc. ? I'd read it, just saying..

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Another book? It really isn't a priority. Some day, before the next century. Maybe.

 

[dyingsun]

It was a good show, I'm not seeing the Mufon-Army in any better state, though..dare I say, Harzan 'defending' Greer sealed the deal.. I know a lot more of the wrong doings of Greer than he, it seems, and he never heard of Palmer as well ...?
Do some of these guys just sign on 'open' job opportunities as they go, or what ?....ffs.

Gene, you better write that book, in all honesty. I love early Ufology (not you, dude..).

 

[Randall]

I've always admired and acknowledged Robert Bigelow's ground-breaking interest in such low-status "paranormal" subjects. A bit of a pioneer, he has spent millions of his own money to scientifically study these phenomena and he owns his acquired data. Biggie wears big Billion$steel-toed boots and he will do with it what he will. And that's fine by me—I'm not interested in stamping on any toes ...

I wouldn't exactly call Bigelow's interest in the paranormal "ground breaking" or particularly worthy of admiration. I would call it elitist and worthy of question. If it were possible to step on his toes without getting squished like a bug, I would do it just to get his attention. I sense he's someone with a genuine interest who could benefit from another point of view. It's not like he couldn't afford to step outside the box of his own making.

 

[dyingsun]

Should have added a (not you, dude ), there. 'We're' stepping on no ones toes as is, genuine interest...I guess everyone registered here has that, genuine, interest. I'm not a 'Believer' ,but I think top-secret aircraft AND genuine ufos (genuine, as in not created knowingly by us) are flying around.


Had to edit out the last bit which made no sense at all, I blame beer.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

It was a good show, I'm not seeing the Mufon-Army in any better state, though..dare I say, Harzan 'defending' Greer sealed the deal.. I know a lot more of the wrong doings of Greer than he, it seems, and he never heard of Palmer as well ...?
Do some of these guys just sign on 'open' job opportunities as they go, or what ?....ffs.

Gene, you better write that book, in all honesty. I love early Ufology (not you, dude..).

The is one possibility that might continue to explore…

 

[Frank Stalter]

But then we had the enigmatic question answered by a question: 'Well how does ESP work?'
- answered with 'all points in space and time are linked' - to me this kinda goes down the Remote Viewing and 'spooky action at a distance'. If there is anything to RV, it must mean that vastly distance points in space and time can somehow be accessed virtually instantly. Who was it that said that there was a large mental or psychic component to flying saucers?

To me, this stuff is the most interesting, and mostly why I'm into UFOs -

You might find these recent articles interesting:

Numbers Get Mapped In Our Brains Like A 'Sixth Sense,' Study Suggests

"objects that look similar might be grouped together in the brain, Harvey said."

Could explain the misidentification of similarly shaped objects in RV sessions going back to Upton Sinclair.

Physicists Discover Geometry Underlying Particle Physics | Simons Foundation

“This is completely new and very much simpler than anything that has been done before,” said Andrew Hodges, a mathematical physicist at Oxford University who has been following the work.

The revelation that particle interactions, the most basic events in nature, may be consequences of geometry significantly advances a decades-long effort to reformulate quantum field theory, the body of laws describing elementary particles and their interactions. Interactions that were previously calculated with mathematical formulas thousands of terms long can now be described by computing the volume of the corresponding jewel-like “amplituhedron,” which yields an equivalent one-term expression.

“The degree of efficiency is mind-boggling,” said Jacob Bourjaily, a theoretical physicist at Harvard University and one of the researchers who developed the new idea. “You can easily do, on paper, computations that were infeasible even with a computer before.”

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Thanks Frank, I am indeed interested.

 

[boomerang]

Mr. Harzan's answer to the question about making MUFON more democratic was striking. Basically, you just have to work your way up through the organization for twenty years until you have the opportunity to become the MUFON figure head...? I suppose that is one way to do it.

You noticed the condescending tone of that phrase as well, did you ? I think it comes close to summing up much that is currently wrong with MUFON as a public investigation centered enterprise.

And--The story about Ben Rich and connected consciousness driving UFO propulsion is an old one in the field of ufology. Assuming it is true, was Mr. Harzan really the guy who heard it straight from Ben Rich himself ? If he did, fine. But a little verification would go a long way here.

Good interview. Mixed impressions of the guest's message at best.

 

[Steve Zalewski]

September 22, 2013

I would have had more respect for Jan Harzan had he been 100% honest and admitted that having Greer speak at their convention was a big mistake.

To the Bigelow family, why don't you give financial support to the J. Allen Hynek Center For UFO Studies as CUFOS has less screwballs in it's operation and has published SCHOLARLY UFO materials, which MUFON has not done.

Steve Zalewski,
Syracuse, NY

 

[SoCalGNX]

Harzan seems like an okay guy. Show was interesting. As a former "IBMer" I have to say that his answer/nonanswer about Greer was pretty IBMish to me.

 

[Rizla]

You noticed the condescending tone of that phrase as well, did you ? I think it comes close to summing up much that is currently wrong with MUFON as a public investigation centered enterprise.

Yes, I noticed it too. Now, put that together with Moseley's experience with the lot, explained in (perhaps) rather more detail than absolutely necessary in his memoir, and a picture emerges. Do you trust the MUFON minions to come up with the solution to the UFO mystery? I don't. Almost every other UFOrg has failed, but rarely because of such conformity. APRO and ilk were at least ready to stick their necks out, now and again. I don't know what to say about MUFON, other than they are most likely to fail.

Moseley put "J.S." on his masthead till his dying day, as an inside joke. That took humor and guts, and a what-the-hell stance that is sadly missing from Harzan and his pal Greer, not to mention their minions.

 

[dyingsun]

My point here, would be that the Chief of Mufon should know his 'field'. Nice guy, but apparently most of us here were more qualified.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Haven't listened to the episode in its entirety, but... I can't helped but wonder whether Harzan's childhood sighting was some form of 'staged' event. The fact that the object he observed seemed juuuust a little more advanced than 1960's technology, and that the sighting seemed to have a link to his & his brother's personal interest with UFO propulsion systems, IMO indicates more than a mere 'nuts-and-bolts' phenomenon.

In any event, the fact that this experience pretty much cemented his journey toward a life-long interest in UFOlogy is incredibly interesting to me.

PS: (10 minutes later into the podcast) LOL Looks like Gene was thinking exactly the same thing!

 

[Burnt State]

Haven't listened to the episode in its entirety, but... I can't helped but wonder whether Harzan's childhood sighting was some form of 'staged' event. The fact that the object he observed seemed juuuust a little more advanced than 1960's technology, and that the sighting seemed to have a link to his & his brother's personal interest with UFO propulsion systems, IMO indicates more than a mere 'nuts-and-bolts' phenomenon.

In any event, the fact that this experience pretty much cemented his journey toward a life-long interest in UFOlogy is incredibly interesting to me.

PS: (10 minutes later into the podcast) LOL Looks like Gene was thinking exactly the same thing!

On staging: this idea is frequently cited as a feature of the UFO experience: the staged abduction, staged landing, staged military theatrics as in, "Let's set the stage and see what gets shaken from the tree?" Some of the really biggies (Phoenix lights, Rendlesham and even the giant globe over the Yukon) all have very eccentric theatrical dimensions to them. Is it merely our own lack of magical technology that causes us to interpret these sightings as "mind blowing" artistic events of epic proportions? I often wonder about the value of these free visual events and whether any military has enough imagination to generate the UFO equivalent of Cirques de Soleil in the sky, and really - to what end & for how much risk?

What is striking, as Gene started off the episode following Harzan's, is that one truth remains: childhood sightings cause a cemented neural pathway that sets some people on lifelong pursuits. Perhaps that's the real and only truth about these events that does fall out of the tree - individuals will commit their lives to investigating the phenomena. Maybe that's the only point these ships have to offer.