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Care for a nice, warm cup of crazy?
- Thread starter CapnG
- Start date
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
Ugh. I saw "reverse speech" and that was enough. Maybe later I'll stomache the rest.
CapnG said:
You can buy them by the case at one of those discount warehouse outlets, such as Costco and Sam's Club
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
Gene Steinberg said:You can buy them by the case at one of those discount warehouse outlets, such as Costco and Sam's Club
Lets reverse Gene's speech on one of his programs. No use doing David's. I gather it will all say, "Mmmmm chocolate".
A.LeClair said:
Or "Paul is dead."
Rick Deckard
Paranormal Maven
CapnG said:
Did you watch all 24x5 minutes parts? I just did.
Her ideas have a big overlap with David Icke's - what really bothers me about these people is that they seem so 'genuine'. She obviously believes everything that she is saying and on the whole managed to remain consistent with her responses.
It's a very grim alternative reality that she describes (as is Icke's) but it does offer an alternative view of recent human evolution if the consensual view isn't to your liking...
I thought the interviewers asked some pretty good questions.
The idea that wars are orchestrated to provide an opportunity to 'dine' struck a disturbing chord in my mind.
The idea that 'the elite' are a bunch of cold-hearted reptiles either metaphorically speaking or even in reality doesn't surprise me.
I'm not convinced by this 'reverse speech' analysis, though as a kid, my best friend and I carried out an experiment we'd read about in 'The Unexplained' magazine about recording 'white noise' on an unused radio band. When we played the tape back we heard a distinct heart-beat and what sounded like monks 'chanting'. That freaked us out and we didn't dare repeat that experiment.
I've had a feeling for a long time that 'something is not right with the world' - and before the 'skeptics' jump on me, I'm not saying that a 'reptilian matrix' is the explanation, I'm just saying that I have some sympathy with the notion that this 'reality' is not what it appears be.
Does that make me a Pleiadean?
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
Rick Deckard said:
Yes. Well sorta, I kept it running so I could listen to it while I was working. Listened to part 2 as well.
Rick Deckard said:
Doesn't everyone feel that way at some point in their lives? I can scarcely think of someone I know who hasn't. Life is a disconcerting experience, most of which is beyond our control.
Rick Deckard said:Does that make me a Pleiadean?
Ask Billy Meier...
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
I should post my myspace profile. Wanna see freaky!? I rarely visit, though I did the other day.
I like my username there a lot. Not really appropriate for here though. Harry Peter, instead of Harry Potter of course....
I like my username there a lot. Not really appropriate for here though. Harry Peter, instead of Harry Potter of course....
Rick Deckard
Paranormal Maven
CapnG said:
Ummm, in my experience the answer is no - my friends pretty much think I'm either deluded, paranoid, crazy or all three. I know better than to try and talk about this stuff in public, but they try and draw me into talking about these 'wacky' ideas so they can 'point and laugh'. In a way, talking about this stuff seems to keep me at a distance from them.
Forums like these on the other hand are double-edged - generally speaking, you find people who share a lot of your own views, but just as many that want to shut you up.
My main 'crusade' in this area is to try and 'turn the tables' on people and ask questions like 'why wouldn't ETIs be coming here?'. I think too many 'ordinary' people react negatively to these topics rather than pause and think them through. I am pretty much convinced that this 'reaction' is actively encouraged throughout the mainstream media, schools and scientific institutions. I feel there is a active process keeping this stuff on the fringe and alienating those who 'pause for thought'.
musictomyears
Skilled Investigator
Rick Deckard said:
Yes, indeed. However, have you considered that by denying the reality of ETs and UFOs, people make it also much harder for the phenomena to manifest? I keep saying that thoughts create reality (and by now, some here are probably sick of me saying it). I am convinced that, should humanity in large numbers approach the subject with an open mind, rather than with a mixture of fear and ridicule, would we see regular and open contacts with ETs.
David Biedny
Paranormal Adept
musictomyears said:
I disagree. The only way that "regular and open contacts" with these unknown beings would happen is if they had something to gain by doing so, which seems to not be the case. The Universe does not do the bidding of talking monkeys, ego and vanity aside.
dB
musictomyears
Skilled Investigator
David Biedny said:
I am not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that you don't believe any of the close encounter and abduction cases ever happened, but that they were merely fantasies? Or do you mean that you don't think that aliens could possibly gain something by interacting with us? If the latter, I'd say they could gain by furthering their knowledge, for example, similar to human explorers reaching out to indigenous tribes in various parts of the world. Some aliens might also want to help us with resolving the multitude of mostly self-created problems - a bit like interstellar missionaries. Some of the encounters with Pleiadeans sound a bit like that (I'm not talking about Billy Meier BS).
There is often an assumption that ETs are necessarily superior to us, on all levels. However, that doesn't seem to be the case. In the case of the greys, it seems pretty clear that they need to learn about humility in a big way, and regain faith in natural processes. I don't think any human would want to be in the shoes of a grey (do they wear shoes?), their situation is in no way enviable.
As for the Pleiadeans, as I understand it, they really struggle with handling negative emotions, but easily get overwhelmed by fear or the slightest hint of aggression - even fear or aggression felt by human contactees, which can make it difficult for Pleiadeans to stick around for any length of time. So, it appears there is some learning and experiencing waiting for them by coming here.
David Biedny
Paranormal Adept
musictomyears said:
Let's be crystal clear about one thing: as far as I can see, there is no proof, NONE, that the entities cited in abduction and encounter scenarios are extraterrestrial. That's not to say that they might be - anything is possible. They might be from this planet, an older race than humans. They might be transdimensional. They might be from another planet, settled on the Earth long ago. We might be a genetic experiment of theirs. ANY of these scenarios are possible. When abductees say that they have been told that their abductors are from planet X or Y, I say that we cannot assume that these beings are being honest.
These creatures are obviously gaining something from their interactions with us, but to presume that we know anything about their purpose and agenda is laughable, IMO. Interstellar missionaries? Again, anything is possible, but somehow I doubt it. I'm hoping that these beings are not as insecure as humans, with a need to control the minds and hearts of other species. I reserve the right to be wrong.
Humans like to think that we are intelligent - I propose that we're seen as being far less intelligent than we think we are, by any advanced race motivated enough to even look. Human vanity knows no bounds - any creatures who would judge us by looking at the television signals originating from this planet would have to conclude that we're a bunch of psychotic, delusional monkeys with extremely violent tendencies and inflated egos, shallow little mammals with bad attitudes and a predisposition to lying. I mean, what do you think they make of all those commercials?
Pleiadeans? Zeta Reticulans? These star system names are human conventions. You mention faith - one of the greatest weaknesses of the human spirit, IMO. Faith allows one to believe in things which fly in the face of any sense of logic, reason, intelligence or actual observation. For my money, faith is what you get when people are too lazy to use their minds. What would a non-human species want with our faith?
"Human explorers reaching out to indigenous tribes in various parts of the world"? Let's see how most of those actions turned out - entire societies killed off, the remains of the lands divided amongst the conquerers, their cultures subverted, their languages forgotten. Do you really want ETs to do that to us? I should hope not.
If only these words were truly part of our culture:
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dB
musictomyears said:
I happen to think that this speculation is worth keeping on the table given that our current understanding of the true nature of consciousness is a bit up in the air. The idea that a supranatural being might derive power, including the power to manifest in our physical reality, from certain beliefs a population holds about that entity is something of a staple in fiction and mythology. For example, Neil Gaiman's American Gods or Stargate's Ori entities.
A frequent observation I hear in the ufo discussion is the feeling some people have that the visitors often seem to be under some time constraint or that there is a limited window for visible appearance and/or interaction. Another frequent theme, especially in the abduction arena is that two of the primary characteristics are fear and sexual/biological manipulation. It is often remarked that they seem to feed upon fear. It is pretty much a given that the two primary human motivators for just about anything you want to sell(war, drugs, food, clothes, religion, political platforms, cars, etc.) are FEAR! followed closely by SEX!! It is relatively rare to see an advertisement for anything that does not in some way incorporate a message of either fear, sex or ideally, the knockout punch of both.
So, as nothing more than pure speculation, I enjoy toying with the idea that the abduction experience, as something that happens more in the manner of an out of body or lucid dreaming type of experience, potentially has one of the goals to create and reinforce a belief system that, when sufficiently prevalent, opens the door to direct physical interaction. The more people believe the greater the possibility for direct interaction/manipulation in a physical sense. Perhaps the visible ufo sighting experience is a necessary belief-instilling precursor to the more involved abduction experience, the whole thing being a type of self-reinforcing feedback loop of belief creation. Once they get their belief batteries charged up enough they will invade and lay waste to our cities and eat our brains.
Maybe allowing the phenomena to become part of consensus reality is the worst possible thing that could happen.
Of course, I don't actually "believe" this, I'm just thinking in terms of if you could sell this angle as a science fiction novel.
T
Tommy Allison
Guest
First let me say that I'm a skeptic. However, I have seen and experienced things that I cannot explain, and yet remain open minded on many topics.
David Icke to me, is an ex-soccer player who basically lost his marbles with too many head shots.
The idea that we have shape shifting reptoids running our planet is a bit out there.
Then again, who would have thought that a company would have invented a chocolate chip cookie pot pie filled with even more decadent chocolate?
Crazy ideas are the start of some of the most interesting discussions and debates. The problem with so many of these ideologies is that they're all built on someone else's ideas, and original thoughts.
It would be nice if Extra-terrestrials were up front and open in their contacting us as opposed to this sneaking around, killing cattle, and abducting people who clearly need a lot of attention.
If I had been abducted by aliens, I would look at it as a real inconvenience, more so than a terrifying experience.
David Icke to me, is an ex-soccer player who basically lost his marbles with too many head shots.
The idea that we have shape shifting reptoids running our planet is a bit out there.
Then again, who would have thought that a company would have invented a chocolate chip cookie pot pie filled with even more decadent chocolate?
Crazy ideas are the start of some of the most interesting discussions and debates. The problem with so many of these ideologies is that they're all built on someone else's ideas, and original thoughts.
It would be nice if Extra-terrestrials were up front and open in their contacting us as opposed to this sneaking around, killing cattle, and abducting people who clearly need a lot of attention.
If I had been abducted by aliens, I would look at it as a real inconvenience, more so than a terrifying experience.
musictomyears
Skilled Investigator
David Biedny said:
OK, unless somebody comes along and presents a live or dead alien, then yes, we cannot claim to have undeniable proof, one way or another. However, I think the case for UFOs is pretty solid, there is too much video footage and other images available, for the whole thing to be a fantasy. I think we can agree on that? There are also too many high-profile whistle-blowers, such as ex-army or secret services personnel, who have gone public, for it to be just a hoax.
So, you suggest the ETs we commonly hear about might not be what they claim they are? Good point. However, what would their motivation be for lying? They appear technologically superior in every respect, so I can't quite see why they would want to conceal their true origin. Would it make any difference to them if we wouldn't know where they are from? However, wherever they *are* from, we can't go there anyway, given our current level of technological development.
While it is always good to be sceptical and on the lookout for inconsistencies, I think, as with every discussion, there is a point where one has to either accept that something looks as if it is true, or forever question fundamentals. For me, certain fundamentals are reasonably clear, with regard to the ET phenomenon, and such fundamentals have been reaffirmed in my life not only by reading books about the subject (I didn't read that many), but also personal experiences. I know that I can't prove to anybody that I experienced anything, but that's pretty much irrelevant to my own research. My experiences blend in 99% with the majority of encounters I read about, and that's good enough for me. I also don't think that it is "laughable" when people come forward and describe what they have experienced, or what they were told by ETs. What else are they supposed to do? When are you going to take anybody in this field seriously? Only when they present a live alien?
About the word "faith". Well, people use this word in various ways. My Mac dictionary defines it thusly:
"faith |f??| noun 1 complete trust or confidence in someone or something : this restores one's faith in politicians. 2 strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. • a system of religious belief : the Christian faith. • a strongly held belief or theory : the faith that life will expand until it fills the universe."
So, faith does not necessarily represent a religious conviction, although it may. Faith can also be a sense of inner, unshakeable confidence that all things follow a natural, higher order, and that there is harmony, even in the midst of apparent chaos. Faith also represents hope and optimism, both of which are required for overcoming all kinds of obstacles in life.
About the indigenous tribes, which you remind us are at risk of getting killed off by explorers... Yes I know, that did happen - many times. But there are also positive examples, and it is worth pointing them out. Some hill tribes in South-East Asia still live almost exactly the way they did, hundreds of years ago. They have their own culture, rituals, language, and often choose to live in relative isolation. Some governments do not interfere with their choices, but support them. Thailand is such an example.
So, I think it quite possible that at least some of the ET races are motivated by noble causes.
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
There are cases where the beings say things that implies they are extra terrestrials plus the Betty and Barney Hill case. I'd say there is evidence for it, but not proof.
It seems that if they have origins within this universe, they are a species that have developed inter dimensional travel and the ability to manipulate time. But it could be their origins are of another dimension, but they visit here. Perhaps even have homes on other planets. It's kind of like someone asking a person where they are from. The person says New York. But does that mean they were born there? It appears that extra terrestrials, time travelers, and inter dimensional beings all work. It seems it's all roll into one. The initial origins are hard to say.
Another theory is that the beings are made for the travel and the tasks. We might be viewing synthetic beings made by ets etc. Not the ets themselves.
There's no evidence that I am aware of that they came from inside the Earth. There's a theory out there that the greys evolved from dolphins. This is problematic. Dolphins simply haven't been around long enough to have evolved something more advanced than us and having that civilization leave no trace. Dinosaurs leave traces, so they would too. The water to land and air jump they would have to go through seems to be a problem too. Out of all the theories I think this is the poorest one.
It seems that if they have origins within this universe, they are a species that have developed inter dimensional travel and the ability to manipulate time. But it could be their origins are of another dimension, but they visit here. Perhaps even have homes on other planets. It's kind of like someone asking a person where they are from. The person says New York. But does that mean they were born there? It appears that extra terrestrials, time travelers, and inter dimensional beings all work. It seems it's all roll into one. The initial origins are hard to say.
Another theory is that the beings are made for the travel and the tasks. We might be viewing synthetic beings made by ets etc. Not the ets themselves.
There's no evidence that I am aware of that they came from inside the Earth. There's a theory out there that the greys evolved from dolphins. This is problematic. Dolphins simply haven't been around long enough to have evolved something more advanced than us and having that civilization leave no trace. Dinosaurs leave traces, so they would too. The water to land and air jump they would have to go through seems to be a problem too. Out of all the theories I think this is the poorest one.
David Biedny said:
This touches on one of the most fascinating aspects of the whole alien/other contact scenario and is itself an incredibly deep philosophical and technical problem.
How can you tell when an alien is lying?
If we suppose extremely advanced technology or other abilities, what tests do we perform to ascertain truthfulness and with what degree of certainty? Do we ask for a trip to their planet? How would we distinguish that it wasn't all a sophisticated hologram, drugs, or hypnosis? Do we want a live or dead alien? How long will it be before we ourselves can manipulate DNA to create something that could pass for an unknown humanoid biped?
There is a long history of this question in philosophy in regards to the existence of God where we ask, what would God have to do to actually prove his existence? One of the classical but simultaneously frustrating answers is simply, "Make me believe that you are what you say you are." How would we know that they aren't directly manipulating the electrochemical processes of our brain to that desired effect?
I'd love to see you guys do a whole show on the question of what actually qualifies as proof that they are what they claim to be.