A Troubling Observation About UFO Reality

[Trajanus]

Not really fully caught up on this thread bit I would like to remind us of trainedobserver's critical reminder that compatibility of biology between us and any alien species is absolutely ridiculous.

I don't think we can assume that. If it can be demonstrated that, for example, silicon based life is likely, compatibility would be unlikely. But AFAIK astrobiologists now think only in terms of carbon based life.

And equally ridiculous is trying to plumb the minds of any alien species as per motive even though most of Ufology has been dedicated to this task and the narratives that flow through this from environmental & nuclear devestation to hybrid alien bio experiments have no real basis outside of blind guesswork.

LOL there have been plenty of contactee/abductee reports in which aliens stated clearly what their objectives or motives are. They may not be ingenuous in all cases but we're still far from limited to "blind guesswork."
And why should alien motives be inherently unfathomable? In order for intelligence to arise in the first place, there would probably have to be a world quite like our own. And in order to progress, or even attain the status of high intelligence, a species must be rational, which means its motives should be comprehensible. Nor would cultural/technological differences prevent understanding. Look at the cultural/technological chasm separating the ancient Greeks from us. They had trade, alliances, diplomacy...

Either way, trying to read the mind of the alien makes no sense when we can explore the minds and histories of the witness to perhaps better understand what or why they saw or experienced what they did.

I doubt it. Many witnesses had no interest in the phenomenon, nor other issues, prior to an encounter.

 

[Trajanus]

First of all, "E.T." isn't (and hasn't) been in contact with "the government".

I don't believe in a secret deal or ongoing contact but there has been some interaction.

 

[Randall]

I think the idea at Malmstrom etc was to convey a warning to governments without compromising secretiveness, as destroying nuclear arsenals would do. Even wrecking some missiles permanently, which didn't happen, would've led to inquiries potentially forcing the military to reveal what really happened (officially or publicly). Given its elusiveness, ET wouldn't want to force the government to do that hence is pretty subtle in its approach.

Apparently an official report on the cause of the missile base malfunction is out there someplace, because If I recall correctly, it was mentioned in one of Printy's SUNlite publications, and the explanation didn't have anything to do with UFOs. It was a malfunction of an electrical component. Additionally, there is a fair bit of contradictory and hearsay evidence in the story, and it's not possible to verify that any alien craft was actually involved. Needless to say, that given the hype about the stories, I tend to take a rather conservative approach.

Now having made my disclaimer, if the story is to be believed as being more or less accurate, then your theory makes a certain amount of sense. However a warning may not have been the intent. Perhaps the malfunctions had nothing to do with the craft. Maybe they just wanted to test our reactions. That's fairly standard practice when studying behavior. Also, such a message could be delivered unambiguously in such a way as to leave governments little choice. For example a space based broadcast from a mother ship that could be spotted optically by civilian telescopes would cause civilians to expect their governments to address the issues in such a broadcast.

 

[Randall]

First of all, "E.T." isn't (and hasn't) been in contact with "the government".

Hmm ...

 

[Trajanus]

Apparently an official report on the cause of the missile base malfunction is out there someplace, because If I recall correctly, it was mentioned in one of Printy's SUNlite publications, and the explanation didn't have anything to do with UFOs. It was a malfunction of an electrical component.

Of course the government claimed a prosaic cause and of course Printy believed it.

Additionally, there is a fair bit of contradictory and hearsay evidence in the story, and it's not possible to verify that any alien craft was actually involved. Needless to say, that given the hype about the stories, I tend to take a rather conservative approach.

Malmstrom wasn't the only report of this kind, so while there are issues with all cases this sort of event still appears real.

Now having made my disclaimer, if the story is to be believed as being more or less accurate, then your theory makes a certain amount of sense. However a warning may not have been the intent. Perhaps the malfunctions had nothing to do with the craft. Maybe they just wanted to test our reactions. That's fairly standard practice when studying behavior.

I dunnoo...there are a lot of ways to test human reaction without the risk of alarming the government or perhaps triggering a conflagration.

Also, such a message could be delivered unambiguously in such a way as to leave governments little choice. For example a space based broadcast from a mother ship that could be spotted optically by civilian telescopes would cause civilians to expect their governments to address the issues in such a broadcast.

The aliens have ways to make their message unambiguous without openly revealing themselves--apparently a no no. Certain contactees were given warnings and if the public has heard of them so has the government.

 

[Red]

The issue of obviousness is problematic. If the aliens really wanted to get an anti-nuclear message across to the world, there would be far more obvious ways of doing it that would leave no doubt in the minds of nearly everyone but the most hardened of skeptics. Yet UFOs go out of their way to avoid giving us enough empirical evidence to prove that the world should take them seriously. They have the capability of remaining unobserved, appear on their terms, and play by their own rules. This all suggests that they want a controlled environment that suits their agenda. IMO that agenda includes studying the wildlife in some detail, and the wildlife here on Earth just happens to include us.

I find it highly likely that these also could have been unmanned. We use drones and robotics all the time know to explore hostile environments. And given the scarcity of life in the universe, these vehicles may not have even been looking for life; but just doing a preliminary survey, and happened to stumble across it.

 

[Randall]

I find it highly likely that these also could have been unmanned. We use drones and robotics all the time know to explore hostile environments. And given the scarcity of life in the universe, these vehicles may not have even been looking for life; but just doing a preliminary survey, and happened to stumble across it.

I tend to agree. I think the thing I saw was a probe, but at the same time, being unmanned in the traditional sense doesn't necessarily mean an absence of intelligence. It seems likely that some of these probes are highly intelligent in their own right, perhaps even qualifying as life forms in and of themselves, maybe even another race's evolution into singularity.

 

[Red]

I tend to agree. I think the thing I saw was a probe, but at the same time, being unmanned in the traditional sense doesn't necessarily mean an absence of intelligence. It seems likely that some of these probes are highly intelligent in their own right, perhaps even qualifying as life forms in and of themselves, maybe even another race's evolution into singularity.

Oh, I think it's quite apparent that even unmanned objects can be under intelligent control. Whether that's AI, remote control, programming, etc., I'm not prepared to guess at this point.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I don't believe in a secret deal or ongoing contact but there has been some interaction.

Really? When and with whom?

 

[Constance]

@ufology, thanks for linking Terry Burnett's detailed video analyses of artefacts at Rocknest, beginning here:

 

[Randall]

@ufology, thanks for linking Terry Burnett's detailed video analyses of artefacts at Rocknest, beginning here ...

Where did I do that? I don't believe these ambiguous images from his "imagination channel" qualify as even remotely good evidence of a long-dead Mars civilization. I did post a video about some interesting looking natural artifacts here on Earth: NASA finds strange object on the surface of the red planet

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Where did I do that? I don't believe these ambiguous images from his "imagination channel" qualify as even remotely good evidence of a long-dead Mars civilization. I did post a video about some interesting looking natural artifacts here on Earth: NASA finds strange object on the surface of the red planet

Thank you @ufology. I wasn't going to watch it anyway because I knew it would be garbage but you solidified the thought

 

[Randall]

Thank you @ufology. I wasn't going to watch it anyway because I knew it would be garbage but you solidified the thought

NP. Once upon a time it seemed harder to be skeptic. Like Klass actually came up with seemingly plausible plasma theories, dug up backgrounds on witnesses, checked out lie detector results, looked for motives, and maybe even did some actual field work. But these guys make it just too easy ... lol.

 

[Burnt State]

I don't think we can assume that. If it can be demonstrated that, for example, silicon based life is likely, compatibility would be unlikely. But AFAIK astrobiologists now think only in terms of carbon based life.

We're talking about different species evolving on different planets. Carbon, silicon or lithium based lifeforms makes no never mind. It's stranger than a lion mating with a whale, or jellyfish for that matter.

LOL there have been plenty of contactee/abductee reports in which aliens stated clearly what their objectives or motives are. They may not be ingenuous in all cases but we're still far from limited to "blind guesswork."
And why should alien motives be inherently unfathomable? In order for intelligence to arise in the first place, there would probably have to be a world quite like our own. And in order to progress, or even attain the status of high intelligence, a species must be rational, which means its motives should be comprehensible. Nor would cultural/technological differences prevent understanding. Look at the cultural/technological chasm separating the ancient Greeks from us. They had trade, alliances, diplomacy...

Ok but we're talking about information about ufos from witnesses which is at the centre of the ufo experience. You are saying that these stories of telepathic communication are 100% accurate and verifiable?

Any advanced rational species, whatever rationality might mean on an alien planet - again we are using a human measure of intelligence and culture - might be highly different. We need our culture as it has evolved on this planet for us to survive and thrive. There's no way we can assume the same about motives for culture on any other planet. And wouldn't an advanced species simply send in the equivalent of self replicating nano probes to gather all the info they need at no risk?

I doubt it. Many witnesses had no interest in the phenomenon, nor other issues, prior to an encounter.

But if we are taking everything witnesses say to be true, because it is in fact the witness experience that Ufology is centred around, why would we not spend much more serious time to investigate what some witnesses may or may not have in common as opposed to just assuming everything they say they saw was true and leave it at that? If so then the diversity of alien species coming to see us is so absolutely incredible that the galaxy must be teeming with life and this planet is a great burger/veggie joint (maybe that's why they keep hitting up all the cows and soil is their condiment of choice?), or they are manipulating the human mind so much that very little of what a witness says could possibly be true.

I think there are a lot of assumptions about Ufology that need to evolve out of old guard thinking and give way to exploring the phenomenon without putting the ETH cart before the horse witness. We might be missing a lot by doing so.

Including a discussion around neuroscience and perception seems to be the other two immediate avenues to be explored given that it is the witness who tells the tale. The ufo has come and gone but they're still here to talk to.

 

[victimized]

First of all, "E.T." isn't (and hasn't) been in contact with "the government".

When a human mind is given feed back in the atmospheric attack, the information gives details. When a human gained information that stated ET had contacted the government, it had, only due to the realization that communications on various frequencies were being used caused by the AI condition.

Therefore how the information is stated by the mind receiving the feedback should be questioned.....yet it is obvious that of course the government would have been using the contacts that the AI had formed. This is due to a review that computer programs/telephone systems use an AI program.....demonstrating what the human aware status has always known......factual information. Depending on the mind reviewing the information depends on how it is then related.

 

[Randall]

Of course the government claimed a prosaic cause and of course Printy believed it.

Compared to believing it was aliens, mechanical failure seems far more credible. So I don't blame the skeptics for their initial position, and their examination of the claims about alien sabotage has succeeded in putting reasonable doubt in my mind about the veracity of the claim.

Malmstrom wasn't the only report of this kind, so while there are issues with all cases this sort of event still appears real.

I don't doubt that UFOs have been spotted near nuclear facilities. But like I was saying before, they've also been spotted nowhere near nuclear facilities. So drawing the conclusion that nuclear facilities are UFO magnets or focal points seems a bit premature.

I dunnoo...there are a lot of ways to test human reaction without the risk of alarming the government or perhaps triggering a conflagration.

Exactly. Which is what they seem to be doing ( sort of ).

The aliens have ways to make their message unambiguous without openly revealing themselves--apparently a no no. Certain contactees were given warnings and if the public has heard of them so has the government.

To my knowledge, no contactee has ever received accurate verifiable information from their alleged alien contacts that was beyond the scope of knowledge or scientific theory of the day. In fact some info seems to have been quite the opposite, like Venusian paradise or Pleiadian home worlds. Add trite and naïve warnings about preserving nature and so on, and it's no wonder contactees haven't been taken too seriously, even among ufologists.

 

[victimized]

Biocompatibility between humans and aliens would certainly seem to be naturally improbable. However doing it intentionally someplace along the way isn't impossible. Additionally chimeras are a scientific possibility, so with the right kind of science, maybe hybridization could be done. I don't know that it is being done. I don't like to get into that whole area because for me it's way out there on the fringe. However strictly speaking, it's not beyond scientific possibility any more than interstellar travel is. It would just take the right science to pull it off.

If by "plumbing minds" you are referring to brain probes inserted into abductees heads, I tend to think that is also out there on the fringe as well. However once again, it's not beyond scientific possibility. We've done far more bizarre experiments on ourselves as a species, and we regularly study other species in an attempt to understand their physical and mental capabilities and behavior. So I see absolutely nothing ridiculous about an alien species doing the same thing out here in our neck of the woods.

I'd like to offer a friendly caution against being so polarized. Things are generally more complex than that. We may not be able to "read the mind of an alien", but we can study behavior, and compared to any other species on our planet, we have a significant capability to do that. Therefore applying that ability should not be considered either pointless or ridiculous.

The reason the current debate is being reviewed as an alien artificial concept versus organic presence is due to the modern scientific occult studies of the concepts of consciousness...God and Christ as statements versus satan/alien as data, as a consideration of applying atmospheric changes to then have the atmospheric changes healed as a new resourcing science.

Yet the review of the cause and effect of the alien/UFO manifested attack were a God statement, an after realization. Data can only be conferred as a related review as information of the after effects.

If anyone cared to review the UFO circumstance, it was re-activated as an atmospheric converting wavelength to purposely attack fusion, so that nuclear fuel could be formed. Life was attacked and so was Nature. As the modern day scientist was not an occult scientist, they never knew that this would be the cause and effect outcome, for they simply studied nuclear fusion.

As I was irradiated I knew that ice melted allowing the wavelength irradiation UFO condition to cool (as it burnt upper atmospheric gases), hence this form of UFO attack diminished, just as witnessed. The only reason why the UFO attack occurred again would only be due to a new condition.....the study and experiments of the atmospheric transmissions (HAARP) and natural cellular life. It is why the attack on Nature witnessed previously was then re-enacted.

The modern day theory of DNA structures is stated to be reviewed to form an artificial theory structure of DNA is the most unethical theory ever proposed by the occultist scientist. Since when does an organic model belonging to organic functions suddenly become artificial? Artificial would not have the same interactive effects/interactions that any artificial chemical model would demonstrate and therefore could not represent an organic model.

This is the only reason why the attacked human mind/psyche and cell function was advised that it was an attack of the UFO/alien manifestation so that we could warn the community and also the scientists experimenting that they are wrong.

In feed back I have heard our brother's voice as a whole life record of photon recordings speaking advice. It was like a living human male in the communications that gave me the impression he worked for the CIA. In the feed back aware states he advised that he is going to get what he wants, that he will succeed in creating a cold fusion state, just because he says so. Yet when I was being irradiated, the feed back stated that they had not gotten to the base component of stone. Yet as I was being held in a fixed state constant, unnatural to organic life or the atmospheric condition holes began to be bored into Earth.

Their idea of base component is a hole blasted right through Earth stone....for the real fusion of stone already existed in its fused status of all fused levels/states.

The UFO model they studied as mind advised incorrect fed back review made them think that they could create the cold plasma cells in out of space as a new resource. The UFO attack on Earth at the moment is caused by our Sun. The ancient first Sun that exploded millions to billions of years ago formed those plasma cells, not our modern day hot Sun.

Therefore the modern day occult scientist who is studying the concepts of Sun-Planets and angels in an occult review of the UFO/alien is wrong. If he wanted a plasma body to exist in creation on Earth, would attest that Earth would need to be exploded as stone to be removed to be replaced by plasma. In the place of Earths planet would be streams of cooling Sun ejected hot plasma that would have attacked the Planets, all releasing plasma UFO cells O in a cooling/interactive attack, and these planets could also be caused to explode, just like the ancients advised in occult literature.

In millions to billions of years time, Earth would then be a plasma body where a stone Planet once existed.

 

[victimized]

We're talking about different species evolving on different planets. Carbon, silicon or lithium based lifeforms makes no never mind. It's stranger than a lion mating with a whale, or jellyfish for that matter.


Ok but we're talking about information about ufos from witnesses which is at the centre of the ufo experience. You are saying that these stories of telepathic communication are 100% accurate and verifiable?

Any advanced rational species, whatever rationality might mean on an alien planet - again we are using a human measure of intelligence and culture - might be highly different. We need our culture as it has evolved on this planet for us to survive and thrive. There's no way we can assume the same about motives for culture on any other planet. And wouldn't an advanced species simply send in the equivalent of self replicating nano probes to gather all the info they need at no risk?


But if we are taking everything witnesses say to be true, because it is in fact the witness experience that Ufology is centred around, why would we not spend much more serious time to investigate what some witnesses may or may not have in common as opposed to just assuming everything they say they saw was true and leave it at that? If so then the diversity of alien species coming to see us is so absolutely incredible that the galaxy must be teeming with life and this planet is a great burger/veggie joint (maybe that's why they keep hitting up all the cows and soil is their condiment of choice?), or they are manipulating the human mind so much that very little of what a witness says could possibly be true.

I think there are a lot of assumptions about Ufology that need to evolve out of old guard thinking and give way to exploring the phenomenon without putting the ETH cart before the horse witness. We might be missing a lot by doing so.

Including a discussion around neuroscience and perception seems to be the other two immediate avenues to be explored given that it is the witness who tells the tale. The ufo has come and gone but they're still here to talk to.

This observation would state that phenomena is unnatural/artificial, yet life on Earth affected/attacked/changed/witnessed still the same as a natural state is not science.

Why is neuroscience considered regarding human life/AI/ET/consciousness?

Only due to a fact that in the sciences there are 2 organizations. Normal scientific investigation and occult science investigation who are purporting that consciousness as a universal creator (UFO - O) God state exists as consciousness communicating to consciousness. Allowing the human mind to understand precepts of conversion.

This is why occult science literature talks about Planets being Gods or angels.

Yet since when is a human removed from their natural life anything other than the consciousness exploring information?

Where is consciousness if a human being does not live on Earth, or is not present to be studied as if a human mind or awareness is going to give you advice of a greater creator?

The only person on Planet Earth who actually believed in a Creator as a greater self presence is the human male occultist.

Yet if he reasoned about the condition that he owned....first of all he exists organically and lives and thinks as a whole presence in his whole state, without singularity existing. He then is recorded by the atmospheric photon condition as voice/image, which is fed back to his own person as his own self in a lesser condition....a recording. As all of his male brother's are also recording their life in the same condition it allows him to hear/feel and be affected by a large/greater presence and recording of consciousness.

Consciousness is a self condition, an ownership of a DNA and mind circumstance and life experience. Therefore the male is hearing is greater self in his own life experience. If you removed the organic life from the condition of feed back and communication gain from the UFO/alien, the condition expressed as a recorded condition would not be the same. The feelings owned by the organic being is not owned by the alien...yet if you studied the alien and human self at the same time as a fed back program...which I know they are, then they have given themselves false ideals about the state of living.

If they removed their total self as a consideration of life, animals would not be contacting the UFO - alien condition for the sciences causing their manifestation would not be applied.

Therefore the condition itself is fake and only an attack....and as I was told by our Father's spiritual fed back awareness.....if you heard the communications when it is not human, then it is not human. If you heard it without being human you would s......t yourself.

 

[Trajanus]

Really? When and with whom?

The military, on a number of occasions.

 

[Trajanus]

Compared to believing it was aliens, mechanical failure seems far more credible. So I don't blame the skeptics for their initial position, and their examination of the claims about alien sabotage has succeeded in putting reasonable doubt in my mind about the veracity of the claim.

If failure occurred at the same time as a UFO sighting, yet was due to something else, that would be a remarkable coincidence.

I don't doubt that UFOs have been spotted near nuclear facilities. But like I was saying before, they've also been spotted nowhere near nuclear facilities. So drawing the conclusion that nuclear facilities are UFO magnets or focal points seems a bit premature.

They may not be where the bulk of sightings occur but they still seem to get disproportionate attention, and if the they actually struck at the facilities, it's not just mere sightings.

Exactly. Which is what they seem to be doing ( sort of ).

And considering the potential risk it's probably not just to test our reaction..

To my knowledge, no contactee has ever received accurate verifiable information from their alleged alien contacts that was beyond the scope of knowledge or scientific theory of the day. In fact some info seems to have been quite the opposite, like Venusian paradise or Pleiadian home worlds. Add trite and naïve warnings about preserving nature and so on, and it's no wonder contactees haven't been taken too seriously, even among ufologists.

Sure like I said lots of statements aren't ingenuous. But it's possible some are. They might need our genetic material for example.