The Bible Code

[Atrayo]

Hi All,

To discuss another similar line to Seers but with a twist in regards to the statistical phenomena of the "Bible Code". Where Hebrew Mathematicians sometimes Jewish rabbies use statistics as an oracle tool from the "Torah". There was a debunker of the said Bible Code that used the same techniques on the novel of "Moby Dick" and got similar results in locating historical events.

Now the advocates of the "Bible Code" (which the History Channel has done a few episodes on) say that only strictly that the Torah can be used and nothing else. As I stated above about a twist, what if this statistical phenomena as an oracle tool is authentic but not just for the Torah, but for all manner of text based manuscripts. Be it manuals, encyclopedias, novels, sacred texts be they the Torah, Bible, Koran, etc...

Anyone have any thoughts on this topic?

 

[aaron]

Hi All,

To discuss another similar line to Seers but with a twist in regards to the statistical phenomena of the "Bible Code". Where Hebrew Mathematicians sometimes Jewish rabbies use statistics as an oracle tool from the "Torah". There was a debunker of the said Bible Code that used the same techniques on the novel of "Moby Dick" and got similar results in locating historical events.

Now the advocates of the "Bible Code" (which the History Channel has done a few episodes on) say that only strictly that the Torah can be used and nothing else. As I stated above about a twist, what if this statistical phenomena as an oracle tool is authentic but not just for the Torah, but for all manner of text based manuscripts. Be it manuals, encyclopedias, novels, sacred texts be they the Torah, Bible, Koran, etc...

Anyone have any thoughts on this topic?

Just to clarify, Torah in this sense is referring to the 5 books of Moses. I don't recall if they used and of the books of Prophets (e.g. Joshua, Samuel, etc.). Personally, I believe that there is validity to it, but that some of the examples in the books stretch things a bit. I am also not a big fan of predictions that happen after the fact.

What is interesting is that it seems that it was first alluded to in the 13th century.

 

[Schuyler]

I have a couple ef books on the subject as well as the software itself. All I can say is, not only can I not make it work for me, I can't replicate the examples in the books either.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

The bible code, needs decoded by another decoder, and so on and so on.

I'm content with reading more modern and less ambiguous books than the various bibles. You know, ones that don't have talking snakes in them and ones where you can actually gather some factual information about it's authors. Ones that haven't been edited by the bias with agendas like King James etc. Not to mention translated many times. As time goes on, more and more interpretations arise. More and more differing religions. Are we closer to any truth the bible/s hold, or further away? Is the bible with or without a decoder really of any use? I fail to see any, other than the possible purpose of providing a cloud for people to see faces in. And then to bicker about how their face is the right face and others are heathens etc.

 

[CapnG]

The Bible Code has two problems:

1) It doesn't really "predict" anything, since almost any combination of letters can be found in any part of the book owing to the limited hebrew alphabet. It therefore allows believers to "confirm" events that were "predicted" by the code with relative ease.

2) Similar algorythms employed with War and Peace, Moby Dick and other thick books have yeilded similar results. Discrepancies can be accounted to by the language issue. Run the bible code algorythm through a hebrew translation of War and Peace and I bet your "hit rate" would be the same.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

The Bible Code has two problems:

1) It doesn't really "predict" anything, since almost any combination of letters can be found in any part of the book owing to the limited hebrew alphabet. It therefore allows believers to "confirm" events that were "predicted" by the code with relative ease.

2) Similar algorythms employed with War and Peace, Moby Dick and other thick books have yeilded similar results. Discrepancies can be accounted to by the language issue. Run the bible code algorythm through a hebrew translation of War and Peace and I bet your "hit rate" would be the same.

Oh yeah, I heard about 2 before, but forgot all about it. Good stuff.

Can't find what you want in the bible or want some random interpreting done for you? Have no fear, bible decoder is near.

 

[Mogwa]

Just to clarify, Torah in this sense is referring to the 5 books of Moses. I don't recall if they used and of the books of Prophets (e.g. Joshua, Samuel, etc.). Personally, I believe that there is validity to it, but that some of the examples in the books stretch things a bit. I am also not a big fan of predictions that happen after the fact.

What is interesting is that it seems that it was first alluded to in the 13th century.

Aaron, my question is which manuscript versions would a researcher use in his experiments? There are many, both fragmentary and complete, with small but significant differences in syntax that would certainly impact the results. That variable alone should be enough to disprove claims of an accurate base source.
Eliyahu Rips is a brilliant mathematician, but I'm astounded that he actually believes the code is a scientifically demonstrable fact. I've seen similar results achieved by using the code methodology on books like War and Peace or Moby Dick.

 

[Schuyler]

Aaron, my question is which manuscript versions would a researcher use in his experiments? There are many, both fragmentary and complete, with small but significant differences in syntax that would certainly impact the results. That variable alone should be enough to disprove claims of an accurate base source.
Eliyahu Rips is a brilliant mathematician, but I'm astounded that he actually believes the code is a scientifically demonstrable fact. I've seen similar results achieved by using the code methodology on books like War and Peace or Moby Dick.

Just to clarify, the CLAIM is that those first five books, when copied, are copied extremely carefully, one letter at a time, and that is part of the ritual, to keep it exactly the same. (I'm just a messenger here. I'm not defending the code, which I don't think works.)

 

[CapnG]

Just to clarify, the CLAIM is that those first five books, when copied, are copied extremely carefully, one letter at a time, and that is part of the ritual, to keep it exactly the same. (I'm just a messenger here. I'm not defending the code, which I don't think works.)

It doesn't really matter if they xerox it, the fact of the matter is it's not a useful tool for making predictions. Nevermind the fact that, by the rite and tennats of the judeo-christian faith, divination is prohibited and an act of blasphemy!

 

[Schuyler]

It doesn't really matter if they xerox it, the fact of the matter is it's not a useful tool for making predictions. Nevermind the fact that, by the rite and tennats of the judeo-christian faith, divination is prohibited and an act of blasphemy!

That's great. Wonderful. But I was responding to a different issue, and that was the claim that the first five books don't come in 'versions.' That is used in the argument that the code can be used.

Not that I disagree with you that it is not a useful tool--that's what I said originally. I can't make it work. As to blasphemy? That's an issue for believers of the faith. I'm as blasphemous as you can get. I think it is ALL a crock.