Han
piscator ψ
I was very sad to see this story, I wonder who was prime minister or president when it hatched.
Devon conger eel close to record - BBC News
Devon conger eel close to record - BBC News
-
NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!
Giant Conger Eel!
- Thread starter Han
- Start date
Han
piscator ψ
If it was a picture of a Tiger or Rhino there would be outrage, I am fascinated by fish, I always have been.
The more I learn about them the more I see that they are misunderstood, many of the traits people associate with mammals or birds can be found in the Fishes.
For example parental care, giving birth to live young, lifelong partnership and learning and adaptation of behaviour.
The trouble is that the "old" way of thinking is still prevalent even amongst biologist, it is starting to change, but at far too slow a rate in my opinion.
If I go to my local supermarket there are strict regulations on the import and export of "meat", for example they could not legally sell pangolin meat*, but no one bats an eyelid when endangered wild fishes are on display for sale. the worst thing is the majority of said fishes will inevitably end up being thrown in the bin (trash).
Fish farms are as, if not more destructive to the local environment than commercial fishing. (excluding illegal and unsustainable methods i.e dynamite, cyanide, beam trawling and long line)
I should also say after a bit of research I have discovered that the age an average conger lives to is between 12-15 years, unlike the European eel that can live up to 10x this age, however I expect that due to its great size the conger in the picture is probably a great deal older maybe as old as me.
*Pangolin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The more I learn about them the more I see that they are misunderstood, many of the traits people associate with mammals or birds can be found in the Fishes.
For example parental care, giving birth to live young, lifelong partnership and learning and adaptation of behaviour.
The trouble is that the "old" way of thinking is still prevalent even amongst biologist, it is starting to change, but at far too slow a rate in my opinion.
If I go to my local supermarket there are strict regulations on the import and export of "meat", for example they could not legally sell pangolin meat*, but no one bats an eyelid when endangered wild fishes are on display for sale. the worst thing is the majority of said fishes will inevitably end up being thrown in the bin (trash).
Fish farms are as, if not more destructive to the local environment than commercial fishing. (excluding illegal and unsustainable methods i.e dynamite, cyanide, beam trawling and long line)
I should also say after a bit of research I have discovered that the age an average conger lives to is between 12-15 years, unlike the European eel that can live up to 10x this age, however I expect that due to its great size the conger in the picture is probably a great deal older maybe as old as me.
*Pangolin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jimi H.
Paranormal Adept
Amazing. Just don't try to kiss one!
Check what happened to an Irish diver who got attacked by one from beneath:
Conger eel attack: Shocking picture of diver's injuries after two-metre creature bites chunk out of his face - Irish Mirror Online
While the pic in the OP is 'deceptive' (its 2 meters), big congers are some nasty fish imo. You don't want to wiggle your toes in front of their jaws.
Han
piscator ψ
I am not saying that it definitely didn't happen as reported, but congers are not very strong swimmers, I think its more likely that the diver in question put his face a little to close to the Eels house, and the Eel reacted as most of us would when presented with a threat in our own home. If it had bitten his hand or leg/foot I would be less suspicious of this unprovoked attack.
Maybe I am biased because I don't think any creature other than man is capable of being "nasty" or "evil".
Having said that I am not going to pretend that I fancy putting this to the test, I am even scared of dolphins.
Jimi H.
Paranormal Adept
Then you must have never had a cat
I love cats, but they are more or less evil, the way they literally 'play' with their half-dead prey can be nasty to behold. I once killed a wounded mouse that my cat was dragging around, out of pity. I'll never forget, the cat looked very, very angry with me!Actually I'm against using the word 'evil' in any literral sense, I just use it symbolically.
Btw., I respect and fairly admire vegans, but honestly, it seems to me they are trying to deny the reality of life, which includes death and the exchanging of proteins. In that regard, I think that nasty conger had a much better life than most farm animals that we eat, so the pity I feel seeing it dead is limited. I'd rather we catch and kill that, than put pigs in cages and fill them with hormones and then kill them. Or, as you mention, put fishies in farms, it stresses them out, they chew each others' tails, and it's very bad for the environment because of all the shit that is poured into the water to feed and medicine the fish.
Han
piscator ψ
That is a very good point I have two small cats, and earlier this month they caught a mouse, and toyed with it as you described, whilst it did upset me that they did not kill it straight away, I don't think they had empathy for the mouse, they just saw it as a fun game.
But it did make me think what they (the cats) would do to me if I was as small as a mouse!
One interesting thing I read is that the human stomach has as many neurons as a cats brain!
RE: Vegans I also admire them, but I don't think that it is natural for humans, after all we start off drinking milk, we have canine teeth and chimps hunt and eat small monkeys. The only reason I am vegetarian is about the treatment of animals, a large proportion of of my protein intake comes from dairy, and I do my best only to buy organic milk and egg products because in order to get certification as organic, certain welfare standards must be adhered to. I will no longer eat organic meat, as the animals have to be slaughtered in the same abattoirs as all the rest, due to a change in the law. Previously it was possible to have a slaughterman come to the farm and dispatch the animals, which would be a lot less stressful than if they are transported to the abattoir.
I do buy pet food for the cats, as they have to eat meat, it makes me feel very hypocritical but they where rescue cats, so I am in a catch 22. I had vowed after my old cat died that I would not get another one, due to the reasons above.
But it did make me think what they (the cats) would do to me if I was as small as a mouse!
One interesting thing I read is that the human stomach has as many neurons as a cats brain!
RE: Vegans I also admire them, but I don't think that it is natural for humans, after all we start off drinking milk, we have canine teeth and chimps hunt and eat small monkeys. The only reason I am vegetarian is about the treatment of animals, a large proportion of of my protein intake comes from dairy, and I do my best only to buy organic milk and egg products because in order to get certification as organic, certain welfare standards must be adhered to. I will no longer eat organic meat, as the animals have to be slaughtered in the same abattoirs as all the rest, due to a change in the law. Previously it was possible to have a slaughterman come to the farm and dispatch the animals, which would be a lot less stressful than if they are transported to the abattoir.
I do buy pet food for the cats, as they have to eat meat, it makes me feel very hypocritical but they where rescue cats, so I am in a catch 22. I had vowed after my old cat died that I would not get another one, due to the reasons above.
Jimi H.
Paranormal Adept
Yea, fun and games, and it also trains the cats' hunting skills, teaches them how the prey reacts etc. No empathy for the mouse, of course. I think they are not without understanding though, perhaps even empathy. This is pretty interesting, and adoreable:
First of all, I consider this video something you might not want to do. Cats are unpredictable and moody, and they have sharp claws. Am I the only one thinking this?
But the question is, what does the cat actually 'think' here? Does it understand that it's a young one that needs to sleep? I think it does. I believe that many animals can feel naturally protective of others, especially young ones, regardless of species, if the right conditions are there (for instance among pets that are well fed). But their instincts to secure a kill can be very strong.
No matter how many neat nature programs we can watch, nature can be terribly cruel and full of suffering. Here's the thing though, is that so different with humans? We can be extremely cruel towards each other and against other species. No, not from 'evil', but because we either didn't learn to feel compassion, or because we go nuts under immense emotional pressure. At the same time, the smallest travesty can bring tears to our eyes, because we feel compassion or pity for others, animals too.
Constance's response to the dead conger was that she felt compassion for it. And I understand that, though I'm a fisherman (Edit: ahh, so are you Han, Piscator..), so I also think it's a bit sentimental. In my fishing-world the conger is a nasty quasi-mythological beast that we prefer to leave to its own devices, because catching it would likely become bloody, in one way or another.
I fish in a particular way for difficult fish, I try to be as gentle as I can, and shy from effective methods that I find cruel or unnecessarily brutal. So, it's also a game for me, like it is a game for the cat chasing the mouse. I could fish more effectively if it was just about killing for meat. In fact, in classical British fishing literature you play the fish, I guess that more or less reveals the plight of the misfortunate prey, playthings on a hook.
But fishermen get overwhelmed with the need to go fishing. I believe it's because we feel totally right doing it. When you fish it all makes sense. We use all our senses to 'compete' with the prey and sense where and how to get it. It's what we were made for, reading nature to catch our prey. Just like the cat. I believe we have not evolved to not be out there. When I'm fishing, I can go for hours having no contact but just reading the water, looking for signs that tell me where I might find the fish, and how I might present the fly or lure to attract a hit. This gives me a deep and satisfying pleasure that cannot be compared to working 8 hours in a clammy office to be able to buy cold dead meat in the store. I only wish it could pay the rent..
I'm sure you could be friends (a lion tamer!) but you'd be in constant danger of unwittingly triggering some basic killing instinct. I think that evolutionary biologists agree that cats are more or less miniature lions. I was reading about the behaviour of mountain lions recently because I was looking into that '411 missing' scare piece, I couldn't help but compare that to my experiences with housecats!
You have my respect! I try to not eat too much meat, and I like when I find good substitutes, but I'd be a hypocrite if I said that I didn't like and eat meat. I do go for organic though, but I hear you on the cruelty of long transports.
Yea, that's basically what I'm trying to say, I think that there is no easy solution, because you basically can't have life without death, unless of course you eradicate all carnivores. That doesn't seem to be a solution either, so for me the solution is to face these dilemmas head-on, accepting that the cycles of nature can be cruel, but they allow for new life to flourish and evolve. You saved some cats that might otherwise have lived a shitty life or suffered a slow death. It's all very hard to come to terms with, and I know that philosophical ideas like 'animal rights' are very controversial and challenging subjects to deal with, even for professional philosphers.
Last edited:
I agree with everything you've said and describe experiencing in that post, Jimi H. I became accidentally 'hooked' on fishing years ago on a beach weekend with friends on a north Gulf of Mexico beach. Several of our number were avid surf fishers, one of whom placed a fishing rod in my hands when a fish had struck at the other end. I reeled it in; it was a nice-sized Whiting. And then I wanted to continue, as often as possible, for nearly a year. I even dreamt about surf-fishing, and I found the whole experience invigorating. But after the birth of my daughter I couldn't do it any more, emotionally, not just practically. That's probably in part because the last fish I had caught before then was a beautiful large Florida Pompano (an infrequent catch in these north Florida waters) whose astonished look, when it was netted in the surf and raised out of the water, pierced my heart with regret. That didn't stop me from serving that fish for dinner for our crew, stuffed with shrimp, vegetables, and cilantro. But that look in its eyes never left me; I can still see it today, many years later.
Han
piscator ψ
I don't think you should feel guilty about killing the fish Constance, because it was eaten.
I find waste far more offensive, that is why I hate the supermarkets, they still make a profit even if they throw half the fish away.
The people that catch them, are very poorly treated, especially in more remote corners of the seas.
I agree with Jimmy about "playing the fish" because you need to imagine what the fish will do before he does it, its a mixture of reactions and experience at the same time, but always unpredictable and fluid, a battle between you and the fish. But a very "instinctive" and "natural" one.
Maybe you have seen the following clip but I think it is so amazing it is worth posting it again:
RE: the cat and the baby, I am sure the cat was being nice but however much I like them, they are not very hygienic to have around a very small baby. But I would sooner leave my child with a domestic cat, rather than a dog of any breed.
I think the old man and the sea is a very fine book, I would recommend it if you have not read it, also the complete angler, were I borrowed "Piscator" from.
I find waste far more offensive, that is why I hate the supermarkets, they still make a profit even if they throw half the fish away.
The people that catch them, are very poorly treated, especially in more remote corners of the seas.
I agree with Jimmy about "playing the fish" because you need to imagine what the fish will do before he does it, its a mixture of reactions and experience at the same time, but always unpredictable and fluid, a battle between you and the fish. But a very "instinctive" and "natural" one.
Maybe you have seen the following clip but I think it is so amazing it is worth posting it again:
RE: the cat and the baby, I am sure the cat was being nice but however much I like them, they are not very hygienic to have around a very small baby. But I would sooner leave my child with a domestic cat, rather than a dog of any breed.
I think the old man and the sea is a very fine book, I would recommend it if you have not read it, also the complete angler, were I borrowed "Piscator" from.