Fighting Apathy

[Rick Deckard]

I don't get it.

How do you get people to actually look at the UFO subject when they're so resistant to the idea?

I'm generally seen as a "UFO/Conspiracy Nut" (which I do not like one bit) and whenever anyone asks me about it, they're disappointed that I can't prove anything to them in a 5 minute conversation. Instead I tell them that they need to go and look into the subject for themselves - I send them some links to get started and leave them to it.

Several weeks might pass before I see them again and I'll ask if they managed to take a look at the sites that I had suggested and the answer is *always* "no". This has happened several times.

On the one hand they cannot understand why I would even entertain the idea that some UFOs might be ET craft or that 9/11 might be an inside job or that JFK might have been killed by the CIA, yet they will not go and look at the arguments and evidence presented.

I wouldn't mind one bit if they actually read a large amount of the 'stuff' and then concluded it was all BS - you can have a constructive discussion at that point.

I try avoid discussing it now, but they know this and try to lure me into discussions about it, just so they can tie me in knots with a barrage of questions that I can never answer to their satisfaction. Each time I answer a specific question it's followed by "Ah, but what about this...."

I once admitted that I had read a David Icke book (I was curious) and immediately that has been distorted out of context - apparently just reading a book now means that I believe every word of it (which is not true).

It's just so frustrating. I feel myself getting angry now every time this topic is brought up in conversation, because I know it's gonna turn into another episode of ridicule.

Why do people continue to act like this around 'fringe' topics? What's wrong with having a rational, constructive discussion about it?

Does anyone else suffer from this?

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I stopped expecting people to dig into things, other than people that are real into it, and even then it's far from always. I just do my part and let the chips fall where they may. To get too caught up in converting the masses makes me feel like a religious fanatic.

If most people looked into fringe stuff, it wouldn't be considered fringe heh.

 

[Rick Deckard]

If most people looked into fringe stuff, it wouldn't be considered fringe heh.

Which is what needs to happen to move it forward...

...so my question is, how do you get people to look?

I don't want to "convert" anyone, I just want 'everyday' people to look at this stuff before they decide to label me "a nut". If they look into and decide there's nothing to it, then fine.

 

[BrandonD]

I don't get it.

How do you get people to actually look at the UFO subject when they're so resistant to the idea?

I'm generally seen as a "UFO/Conspiracy Nut" (which I do not like one bit) and whenever anyone asks me about it, they're disappointed that I can't prove anything to them in a 5 minute conversation. Instead I tell them that they need to go and look into the subject for themselves - I send them some links to get started and leave them to it.

...

Why do people continue to act like this around 'fringe' topics? What's wrong with having a rational, constructive discussion about it?

Does anyone else suffer from this?

I definitely know what you mean, I've been there. I can maybe offer some helpful subjective advice.

Consider a subject will less personal ties, like religion maybe. My family is extremely religious (Baptist), and during high school my best friend was also extremely religious (Mormon). One day it occurred to me that if I were to sit my dad and my best friend in a room and let them have at it, neither of them would be able to convince the other one of anything at all! They would leave the room with exactly the same beliefs as they had before they entered. In fact, their prejudices would probably be even stronger now, since they had "fought" for what they believed.

This sort of impacted me and showed me the futility of trying to convince anyone of a particular idea when they're just not equipped or ready to handle it. I think that when a person is prepared to actually learn something, you can pick up on the receptivity.

Plus, there's the additional idea that you or I may actually be wrong about something that we think. Which means that this other "conventional" person, even though his views are largely incorrect, might still be able to show us a way that our views are biased or faulty.

I guess what I'm basically trying to say is that, if you enter into those sort of conversations with the mind-set of a game of chess - as in, you're trying to win the other person over to your way of thinking - then the result is going to be bad either way. You've either intellectually bullied another person and thus hindered his ability to think for himself, or your own ability to think will be obstructed because you are being consumed with ego. The best mind-set is to see the situation as a potential learning opportunity for them, or perhaps even for you.

As for being seen as a nutty person, I think that is kind of inevitable. There is an impression I get of the world these days, that it is compacting, and those people that choose to remain outside of this compacting bubble will progressively be seen as stranger and stranger because they are not going along with the program.

Hm, I don't know if this is the advice you were seeking, but ah well. My thinking isn't the best right before lunch!

 

[George Hayduke]

My Alamo has always been gubbermint secrecy. When in a conversation and the eyes start to roll I usually retreat and end up saying something about how, "well, it ain't exactly a chicken and egg debate. We know which came first. In 1947 after Roswell all these secret alphabet agencies were invented out of thin air with secret accounting practices and no obligation to disclose to the public anything they're doing. Secrecy breeds conspiracy. If you don't believe that I've got some oceanfront property in Iowa I'll sell you real cheap. And if you can't handle the conspiracy theories, get rid of the secrecy and I'll shut up."

 

[Raevenskye]

People like us will probably always be considered kooks, spooky, or weird. We're easier to dismiss if we remain compartmentalized. I think the best you can do is share what you know, and if a few people come away from the conversation thinking, or changed, then it's a victory. There are always going to be those who are just unwilling to consider anything except what they're told. They're easy to deceive and easy to lead. Those of us who question, and call for real answers must be discredited by the powers that be, so we remain on the fringe, and "kooky". It is frustrating, but I've learned that I'm the only one who can walk my path, and if other people want to chat about it, or walk with me for a while, that's cool, but I can't carry them. Of course, that doesn't solve the bigger issue of truth vs. fiction. I believe there is a renewed interest in paranormal topics, but it's a slowly turning wheel.

 

[ondafritz]

I say "Screw 'em"! Look, most people don't give a crap about what's really going on. As long as the coffee is from Starbucks and Paris, Lindsey, and who ever is keeping the masses entertained then the attitude is "who???? what???".

Most people have never been behind any advancement or revelation that changed humanity until it was packaged and sold by advertisers. And it is not only the modern age who has this apathy for anything important. History is replete with examples. It's just that most folks have no real grasp as to what is really going on. Nor do they care. It has always been a small band of firebrands who keep tabs on things.

Don't feel bad guys. It is just the way it is. I wish it were different but it is not.

It is up to us.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I often wonder if the reason (or a main reason) we are driven to look into this stuff is because it is fringe. If it wasn't we would go off where things are. We (or however many) aren't sure about many things. Those people who think they KNOW the answers, are often the ones who don't do any looking, or stop, because they think, "what's the point!?". "I saw a documentary and saw Sagan say the evidence is unimpressive. He would know!" sorta thing. That's enough for them, but not others. Many people with opposing views are every bit as convinced they are right as any of us are generally speaking. I'm sure Horn would think I'm a closed minded dumb-azz if he contacted me. I'm already convinced the Meier case is a hoax, and don't do a lot of reading on it anymore, unless maybe something amusing comes along. I still find it a little amusing.

 

[ondafritz]

I often wonder if the reason (or a main reason) we are driven to look into this stuff is because it is fringe. If it wasn't we would go off where things are. We (or however many) aren't sure about many things. Those people who think they KNOW the answers, are often the ones who don't do any looking, or stop, because they think, "what's the point!?". "I saw a documentary and saw Sagan say the evidence is unimpressive. He would know!" sorta thing. That's enough for them, but not others. Many people with opposing views are every bit as convinced they are right as any of us are generally speaking. I'm sure Horn would think I'm a closed minded dumb-azz if he contacted me. I'm already convinced the Meier case is a hoax, and don't do a lot of reading on it anymore, unless maybe something amusing comes along. I still find it a little amusing.

Well, I think you bring up a good point. I have no idea what ever made me interested in Ufo's. But I always have been. I can't remember a time when I was not thinking over the horizon. I mean, I'm not all that special or anything like that. I just have always been interesed in space and what's out there. And what's out there that might be coming here. I think we are born with the bug.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Well, I think you bring up a good point. I have no idea what ever made me interested in Ufo's. But I always have been. I can't remember a time when I was not thinking over the horizon. I mean, I'm not all that special or anything like that. I just have always been interesed in space and what's out there. And what's out there that might be coming here. I think we are born with the bug.

I was too limited in my last post. If aliens landed, I would still read about it. So would many of you. It's all a matter of learning I think. See, many people think they already know, and others wonder. Most of us here that still explore this DO wonder. We're not sure, which is a good place to be in my opinion. Others are, so they fart in our face.

Most the times I post something, upon re reading it, I find a revision. It's interesting that I keep second guessing myself I think we all do it, but some don't realize it. Ideas evolve unless you kill them etc.

 

[CapnG]

The solution is not to associate with normal people. All of my associates are creative, intelligent people and all of them have some degree of interest in the paranormal. None of them are die-hard true believers but neither are any of them uber-skeptical debunkers.

Normal people... ick...

 

[Raevenskye]

The solution is not to associate with normal people. All of my associates are creative, intelligent people and all of them have some degree of interest in the paranormal. None of them are die-hard true believers but neither are any of them uber-skeptical debunkers.

Normal people... ick...

they can be pretty scary! Almost all the people who KNOW me, are weirdo friends, or weirdo family. I almost never discuss the "spooky" stuff with outsiders, unless they ask me directly. Then I let the leaves fall where they may.
I agree w/Packrat...it's good to be a seeker. It keeps me moving along my path, working to be a better person, and to better understand the universe around me.

 

[auntiegrav]

Fighting Apathy in one's self I think is the tough part. I've always found people apathetic about just about everything. They have to be in order to function in today's society. You have to be aloof and unattached to any truth because if you actually dig into a subject and try to understand it, you will inevitably offend someone, whether it is politics, religion, secrecy, mathematics, or cooking.

The biggest problem I have with people is that they just don't care about the things they say they care about, and their opinions are usually cut and pasted from peers or media or parents. Most people who attend church don't really believe in God any more. They just know they HAVE to SAY they do or they will be socially burned.

So I go out of my way at times to make them think. I will even prove myself wrong if it gets them to think about a subject.

UFOs, Conspiracies, Peak Oil (May, 2005, by the way), Blind Faith.
The true Evil in the world is any action taken based upon blind faith, whether in gods, governments, or gurus.

 

[Poi]

Seems to have something to do with the law of entropy. There's some sort of giving up maybe instead of an evening out, but the result is the same. Disorder is probably a good thing if it can be maintained within limits. Just doesn't work that way and maybe humans are subject to the same law.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

How do you get people to actually look at the UFO subject when they're so resistant to the idea?

Rick.
Sorry mate but you can't make or influence people into looking at the UFO subject or any subject for that matter. I sympathize with you on that.

It's the same as people wanting the governments of the world to come clean o UFOs they have their reasons and they aren't budging for anyone, jack.

The best we can do is be strong and not waver from our beliefs and live as an example to others (it doesn't matter what they think of that example).

Surrounding yourself with persons of like minds is always better as someone else on this thread has posted.

The next time those kind of people hoping to ambush you with un answerable questions confront you, tell them to piss off ad go read a book or two about it.