Dreaming Chemicals: My personal understanding of the Abduction issue.

[RedClover]

Greetings Paracast forum!

I would like to go out on a limb here and present my personal explanation for the abduction phenomena. I would like to say that this certainly does not explain UFO’s, multiple witnesses, and a variety of other issues. There is a plethora of strangeness in the world and it is my sincerest hope that it will one day be understood. Now..onto the discussion.

For those who would like the short version: People are having intense dreams.

That however didn’t satisfy my curiosity. For years I’ve been researching mystical states, OOBE’s and the like. It was only recently (mainly because of the Paracast actually) that I started looking into abduction issues as well. The Key is understanding how endogenous DMT works within the brain. Note: I am NOT talking about taking drugs. I am not speaking about anything that already is not present within one’s own system.

While listening to a presentation by Dennis McKenna, (Ph.D. at the University of Minnesota)
he described a possible mechanism of action for DMT. The question for researches of course is now that we know DMT is in our brains, what in the world is it doing there? Why aren’t people hallucinating all the time? What is the implication of this in psychosis?

Before I launch into what DMT might be doing in our brains, one needs to understand another
vitally important element. Monoamine oxidases, which from now on will be referred to as simply MAO’s.

MAO’s exist in the brain and body to break down potentially hazardous substances. One such example of a potentially deadly chemical would be Tyramine. Tyramine is present in all kinds of things from cheese to David’s beloved chocolate. If the MAO’s are compromised then Tyramine can even cause death. However, MAO’s don’t just break down foreign entities. MAO’s also breakdown things we find important. Such as Serotonin and Dopamine. MAO’s also breakdown (or keeps at a much lower range) DMT. Like many things, this is not a black and white issue. Too little MAO’s and a person could have dangerous health issues. Too many MAO’s and an individual would be suffering from serious depression (because once again it breaks down “happy” chemicals such as Serotonin and Dopamine).

It is for this reason that some psychiatrists prescribe MAOI’s (Monoamine oxidase inhibitors) to seriously depressed patients. However, because of the dietary restrictions (who doesn’t want to eat chocolate?!) SSRI’s (Prozac, Paxil etc.) are much more common.

The body also creates its own MAOI called Pinoline (which is a beta-Carboline in case anyone cares).

Now: What the heck is DMT doing in our bodies? And if it’s there, why are you not reading this in the company of aliens/gods/machine elves etc.


This is where Dr. Mckenna’s explanation comes into play.

Your body works in a variety of ways according to its surroundings. But the two versions that I am going to cover are quite simple. Daylight and Darkness.

In the waking hours it works something like this:

You eat some food (in this example we are going to use Turkey because it’s rich in Tryptophan which is a nice little precursor).

Ok..You eat some Turkey. Some of the Tryptophan is going to be converted to Serotonin. Some of it is going to be converted into DMT. Some of it is going to be converted into xyz. Most of that is going to be broken down by your MAO’s. Simple enough right? That’s the Daylight routine that your body is going through. I’m sure you know it’s more complicated, but for the sake of simplicity lets just leave it here.

Now lets turn to the Darkness:
Once the light around your body starts to decrease (and sure, circadian rhythms are involved as well)
your body changes the chemicals that it’s making...
That Tryptophan that turned into Serotonin is now from the Serotonin turning into Melatonin.
The Melatonin of course will make you fall asleep.
And the Melatonin will eventually...are you ready...turn into Pinoline! Remember Pinoline? It’s an MAOI. Which means...DMT level increases (or at least isn’t being broken down so much). And Poof! You’re dreaming.


Now it’s important to keep in mind that there is a balancing act going on here. It’s not like there is suddenly no DMT or suddenly no MAO’s. It’s that the levels keep changing. Just as your Serotonin levels are going up and down. And for that matter, everything else.

So, from this vantage point it is interesting to view the abduction issue. Lets say that for whatever reason (and there could be oodles) your Serotonin, MAO, DMT, or MAOI levels are wacky. Any one of those could result in a serious experience. Too much Serotonin could result in too much Melatonin would could result in too much Pinoline. Too much DMT could over come the MAO’s, (though if this were the case you could very well be put in an institution so I believe it’s rare).Also it’s important to note that this is just counting the MAO’s in your brain. You could eat truck loads of DMT and the MAO’s in your gut would destroy it. Too low of MAO’s would result in quite the experience if enough Tryptophan went into DMT production. At any rate, I think you’re getting the picture. Rocking the boat too much = hallucinations.
Which also goes a long way towards understanding various ritual acts (such as intense, prolonged dancing rituals) that result in “spiritual” episodes without the aid of any outside chemical concoction.

It is for this reason that I find looking at people who do consume DMT (and now I am talking about taking drugs) so interesting. At least when comparing them with people who have had endogenous DMT experiences.

Does this explain UFO’s? No. Does this explain every contact experience? No. Does this explain all of the high weirdness floating out there? Certainly not. But I do believe it’s relevant information and anyone who is investigating these topics should at least be aware of the “mechanics” of this subject.

Thanks for such a great forum, and to Gene and David, thank you for the show.

Cheers-
RedClover

 

[RedClover]

Additional Comment:

Oh no! I can not believe I forgot sleep paralysis! I know that most of you already know and understand this, but in the interest of having a more complete understanding I think it and other activities should be mentioned.

Even if an individual’s “dreaming chemicals” are all aligned, there is the side issue of awareness.

In the lucid dreaming world there are a few methods that have shown themselves to be reliably effective for achieving this state. The two most common are referred to as:

MILD: Mnemonic Induced Lucid Dream
and
WILD: Wake Induced Lucid Dream

With a MILD, the goal is to have repeatedly told yourself that you are dreaming so many times that once you are in the dream state you realize where you are and become lucid. This mainly involves developing good habits in regards to things like “reality checks” and repeating little phrases every night while you drift off to sleep.

To take more control of the situation though, there is the more direct although somewhat exhausting WILD method. With the WILD method one has to try and mentally “stay awake” while the body falls asleep. When this happens, at least from my experience, things get a little...creepy.

I say creepy because for me at least my body enters what is referred to as the “vibrational state”. That means that it feels like electricity is shooting all over my body and that it is vibrating. Of course nothing is really moving around or shaking, but that is certainly what it feels like.

I personally believe that this is the “feeling” of going into sleep paralysis. Because afterwards... I am in sleep paralysis haha. And on another note, when I do get into the “vibrational state” although I have never seen anything or had an abduction experience, I definitely have heard scary voices muttering freaky gibberish at me. Or feeling like there was something hovering above my head whispering in my ear. If it was the case that any of my “dreaming chemicals” (as mentioned in the beginning of the thread) were askew, making this whole experience all the more intense, then I can completely envision how someone living in our modern, technological set and setting would hallucinate to the tune of aliens.

Thanks again-
RedClover

 

[CapnG]

Your explanation probably accounts for 90-95% of reported abduction cases but much like the UFO, ghost, orb and other paranormal phenomena, nobody's really interested in those. It's the 5-10% of completely inexplicable events we're primarily concerned with.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Then there's the hoaxer category.

Nearly all cases I've dealt with turn out to be sleep paralysis. There's some seemingly good abduction cases out there, I just haven't been lucky enough to investigate them personally.

 

[RedClover]

Speaking of abduction cases...what did you guys think about The Clueless One on the most recent, (June 17, 2007 as of this post) Paracast show? To me it sounded like a quasi-Kundalini experience. I’m no expert in that area, but that is what it reminded me of.

-RedClover

 

[Brian Now]

Speaking of abduction cases...what did you guys think about The Clueless One on the most recent, (June 17, 2007 as of this post) Paracast show? To me it sounded like a quasi-Kundalini experience. I’m no expert in that area, but that is what it reminded me of.

-RedClover

Yeah, absolutely there are too many similarities to the descriptions of kundalini awakening experience to miss there. I haven't had one myself (as I explained in another post on here) but his stuff definitely mirrors descriptions of that experience in many ways.

About abductions experiences, assuming OOBEs are real (I tend to think they can be) then I suppose the abduction experience could be related to that. I suppose it could be a hallucination of some kind too, but seems like they are too vivid to be any ordinary, non-drug induced hallucination.
Of course, alien abduction experiences are conveniently tied to industrial societies for the most part. This makes it appear to me that they are probably not what they seem...but might be real encounters with something nonetheless.

But, by the way, I don't mean to offend anyone on here who claims to be a contactee.

 

[Goody]

I really like this idea you've put forward RedClover & i'm a huge fan of the works of Terence Mckenna, I'm not all that familiar with the works of Dennis though.

Sleep paralysis is an extremely terrifying experience & I honestly hope I never have another episode ever again; I sleep on my sides nowdays to prevent further attacks.

Seeing something blacker than void moving towards you when you are 100% vulnerable is so damn scary...I will mention aswell that upto 1 and a half hours after my attack I could hear voices whispering things to me & laughing at me whilst I was wide awake and had moved bedrooms...So answer me this: Was it a hallucination due to the levels of chemicals within my skull being thrown off balance? OR was it due to the fact that i'd entered the vibrational state and thus resonated at such a frequency as to allow me to experience otherwordly entities?

I look forward to your opinon RedClover, excellant topic.

Goody.

 

[valiens]

I'm an abductee. I've had intense dreams, lucid dreams, "woken up" into dreams, i.e., become conscious that I'm dreaming. I've also had remote viewing type visions, vision/experiences that fit the shamanic/mystic bill nicely and once had a waking hallucination, which some piece of me knew was not real the entire time it unfolded.

All of these are qualitatively different and none of them are abductions.

I've never done an illegal drug in my life, I don't drink, and I'm not schizophrenic. If brain chemistry is involved in some of these circumstances it's as biological correlate to the interior event taking place, although abductions certainly look and act like exterior events that no piece of me thought wasn't happening at the time (unlike the hallucination).

In short: It isn't dreams or sleep paralysis.

That being said, I'll give you that most people who think they've been abducted are wrong, delusional, or just plain crazy. (Then again, it's kinda hard to stay normal when "abnormal" things become your life. It's possible we're crazy because we're abductees!)

 

[valiens]

Speaking of abduction cases...what did you guys think about The Clueless One on the most recent, (June 17, 2007 as of this post) Paracast show? To me it sounded like a quasi-Kundalini experience. I’m no expert in that area, but that is what it reminded me of.

-RedClover

Jeez, I didn't read this far down before I posted... Yes, a lot of what I said mirrors (or in fact is) Kundalini experience. The problem is there's no definition of what that really means. It's a blanket term, from what I've read. An energy coiled at the base of the spine is triggered, comes alive, and then does everything from activate chakras to contort the body into yogic positions. If you're lucky you end up with the big enlightenment experience.

All of that has happened to me and so I can't deny the connection. However, I've also had experiences with this energy that smack of possession, that felt induced by an outside agency, and that involve (for lack of a better term or actual knowledge of what I'm dealing with) spirits and living archetypes.

And oh yeah: aliens (or whatever they are).

So to just throw all of that under the Kundalini umbrella doesn't work for me. Holistic philosopher Ken Wilber famously said that alien abductions represent the narcissistic Baby Boomer mind grappling with authentic spiritual experience. He believes it's a way to remain the center of the universe (aliens are here for ME), which essentially is an avoidance of the very real spiritual unfolding taking place.

I cannot discount that. I really want to but I can't.

I've heard this female voice I associate with abduction experiences but have no memory of ever seeing it attached to a body. It's a telepathic voice. I also heard her during the big enlightenment I AM experience. Granted she was relaying an alien-type message (actually, a bland contactee-type message) but still: I can't ignore the correlation between this voice and the Great Mother or Mother Goddess archetype that pops up in Eastern religions that recognize kundalini awakening.

 

[Goody]

Speaking of abduction cases...what did you guys think about The Clueless One on the most recent, (June 17, 2007 as of this post) Paracast show? To me it sounded like a quasi-Kundalini experience. I’m no expert in that area, but that is what it reminded me of.

-RedClover

Jeez, I didn't read this far down before I posted... Yes, a lot of what I said mirrors (or in fact is) Kundalini experience. The problem is there's no definition of what that really means. It's a blanket term, from what I've read. An energy coiled at the base of the spine is triggered, comes alive, and then does everything from activate chakras to contort the body into yogic positions. If you're lucky you end up with the big enlightenment experience.

All of that has happened to me and so I can't deny the connection. However, I've also had experiences with this energy that smack of possession, that felt induced by an outside agency, and that involve (for lack of a better term or actual knowledge of what I'm dealing with) spirits and living archetypes.

And oh yeah: aliens (or whatever they are).

So to just throw all of that under the Kundalini umbrella doesn't work for me. Holistic philosopher Ken Wilber famously said that alien abductions represent the narcissistic Baby Boomer mind grappling with authentic spiritual experience. He believes it's a way to remain the center of the universe (aliens are here for ME), which essentially is an avoidance of the very real spiritual unfolding taking place.

I cannot discount that. I really want to but I can't.

I've heard this female voice I associate with abduction experiences but have no memory of ever seeing it attached to a body. It's a telepathic voice. I also heard her during the big enlightenment I AM experience. Granted she was relaying an alien-type message (actually, a bland contactee-type message) but still: I can't ignore the correlation between this voice and the Great Mother or Mother Goddess archetype that pops up in Eastern religions that recognize kundalini awakening.

Do you mean the voice is like 'the logos'?

 

[valiens]

I don't know what the voice is like. Seems like a kindly, straightforward if wispy female voice. She once spoke about environmental collapse, once said a poetic bit about stepping out of time, once told me I was witnessing an abduction because I've always wanted to know what they were like and then that contactee-ish message. So there's no overriding theme in what she/it says.

 

[The Hawk]

About 50-60% of abductions occur during the day while people are wide awake. I've heard these statistics from 4 separate abduction researchers who do not work together and are not quoting from each others data. One is Darrel Sims and I know a few people take question to him, so take or leave his 50% #. I've never come across a detailed abduction case where the abductee was observed during the said experience just laying there, they are always alone or when the individual is observed the abductee is actually physically being taken into a craft. DMT is amazing and I won't knock it but while many have reported abduction like experiences on DMT if you pay attention their details always seem to be off base with abductee encounters.

 

[RedClover]

Greetings everyone! Thanks for bringing this post back to life. A special thanks to Jeremy for sharing his experiences as well.

In truth, I have no idea what’s going on. Please take me with as big of a grain of salt as is available. As David has said, “I reserve the right to be wrong”. There could be oodles of things that are happening to contactees. Just as these entities could be various things as well. Truly, it could be anything, or in fact a combination of things.

There is always the materialistic/mainstream idea that this is all in people’s heads. Since I assume that everyone is familiar with this reality tunnel (all hail R.A.W.), let’s pursue some alternative
avenues.

First I must correct something that I perhaps made unclear. Theoretically, while the natural cycle of humans is to create Pinoline during darkness, through various means it could be created in daylight as well. When DMT was first discovered in the human body it was thought to be a possible schizotoxin. After schizophrenic episodes, higher concentrations of DMT were found to be in the subject’s urine. Sorry I don’t remember the reference for that, but search away and you will find the truth! Google’s nice, but access from a University through PubMed or the equivalent would be better. At anyrate, that means that if something is slightly ajar upstairs, it’s completely possible to have these episodes while walking around during the daylight. It’s just that most of us don’t.

On another note, in interest to other “drugs” I’m assuming that you all know about endorphins, endocannabinoids, and all of the other hoopla that your brain needs to function. If you didn’t know, then here’s the short version. The only reason most illegal “drugs” work in your brain is because your brain thinks they are similar enough to its own natural chemicals to use them. The whole brain damage/egg frying thing is just too simple. Everybody has different levels of chemicals floating around in their brains. So yes, even your dear, sober, never touched an illicit substance neighbor may be naturally “higher” than you. But hey, drug misunderstanding has been bringing in the votes and dollars for far too long to change any time soon.

Now on to the fun stuff! *Warning* *High Alert Super Speculation in Progress*

Just because we have these chemicals in our brains does not necessarily mean that entities don’t exist and that it’s all in people’s heads. Far from it.

Brain Chemistry + Nuts and Bolts Theories

Alrighty...try this one on for size. If I were a highly intelligent species with super shnazzy techno-wonders, then you would think that I would be up to date in other subjects as well. Particularly, Biology. What if they had developed an electronic camouflage that worked by way of the human nervous system in its regular configuration. However, if the human nervous system is in an altered state, then the “camouflage” of the ship isn’t working as intended, thus allowing humans to perceive them. Of course, by this theory mass sightings would only happen if the ships were either having problems or wanted to be seen.



Brain Chemistry + Spiritual Beings Theories

Out of Body experiencers seem to have met entities
(check out the forums at www.astraldynamics.com)

Ceremonial Magicians seem to have met entities
(Crowley’s 1919 picture of Lam gets me every time http://www.the-equinox.org/vol3/eqv3n1/LIBER71/lam.jpg)

Supposing that there is a spiritual dimension, why wouldn’t brain chemistry be a manifestation in the physical world of what was intended in the spiritual? As Jeremy admirably stated, “If brain chemistry is involved in some of these circumstances it's as biological correlate to the interior event taking place”. This is certainly possible. Just because science notices something and puts a label on it does not mean that it is any less amazing. Or that the chemical necessarily is the cause in some of these cases and not the effect.

Or goodness, maybe these entities notice this kind of action and it acts kind of like a beacon of sorts which then creates the experience.

There are endless options here.

I guess the thing that I do like about the DMT/Brain Chemistry angle is that it gets results. Out of all of the many topics that are discussed here, it’s at least repeatable and that has got to count for something right? Whatever the case may be, I certainly don’t think that it should be completely discounted or ignored.

Witness testimony is wonderful, and I’m glad that it can help put these great mysteries together. Also, I think it’s wise to look at the personalities, locations and practices involved in intentional contact. Or at least unconventional actions that led to contact. I have to admit that I would love it if there was a unified theory to all of this. But I’m afraid it’s going to continually bother me for a good long while haha.

Who knows, the Universe seems to have enough room for more ideas then I can even begin to come up with.

Thanks for the posts everyone!