The Legacy of Covid Vaccines

[Randall]

This is in fact total horseshit....I don't even know if it's good enough to qualify as that.

Smearing isn't polite. Ask the penguins.

Where is the Health Ranger getting his scientific facts . . .

Anyone who bucks the mainstream vaxxer narrative is automatically demonized. I don't always agree with Mike Adams, but looking into his various claims, he's far from "total horseshit" — I'd give him a rating average of being 96.8% correct around 73.4 % of the time — with the occasional highly parabolic sensationalist claim. But even those tend to have some grain of truth.

Statements such as the medical profession is broken are also ridiculous.

Well I suppose that "broken" can be interpreted a number of different ways — I'd certainly agree that it could do with a few improvements.

It's the most life saving institution we have in our culture and if you don't trust that to make you healthy or save your life then good luck to you. They saved my daughter's life when she went into DKA and thank God for all of them from the ambulance drivers to the paramedics and ICU nurses and doctors working in the background. I know that they are not perfect and that mistakes were made along the way - our family practice doctor missed the basic symptoms of diabetes and said she was dieting - I roasted my doctor over that, but she is alive thanks to a successful medical community.

When did that happen to her? What was the cause?

Similarly the discussion around media outlets "censoring" info on a supposed leaked virus from Wuhan is conspiracy language.

There you go again listening to the penguins.

Nothing was censored.

Lots was censored. Admissions by big media have even confirmed it.

Big Tech Censorship of COVID Information Leads to Vaccine Hesitancy

Ever since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, Big Tech has been working overtime to promote its own ideology over any dissent standing in the way.

www.newsweek.com

Stories about a lab leaked virus were fringe and conspiracy in nature and so they were dismissed by news networks and not Censored.

You need to drop the "conspiracy" tactic. It's old and just shows that you don't know what you're talking about. Lab leaks aren't "conspiracy theories" — they're legitimate concerns, and the COVID lab leak is now widely accepted by objective rational researchers as the most likely source due to the actual science around it.

It is becoming a point of investigation at this point in time and nothing more than that. Let's wait for the facts to come forward to see what that story is about

The facts are already out. You just don't want to accept them.

Lab Leak Most Likely Origin of Covid-19 Pandemic, Energy Department Now Says​

 

[Richard Hawkins]

Don't hold back, Richard, let it all out. Let us know how you feel, what you think. You'll have to admit it's a conversation starter. Its purpose.

Well I will get my flu vaccine as normal in September and if that's not available perhaps I will follow Donald Trump's suggestion and drink a bottle of bleach.

 

[Randall]

Well I will get my flu vaccine as normal in September and if that's not available perhaps I will follow Donald Trump's suggestion and drink a bottle of bleach.

If you go for the bleach — get the good stuff with the spring flowers scent

 

[Richard Hawkins]

If you go for the bleach — get the good stuff with the spring flowers scent

I am a spring flower.

 

[Tyger]

Well I will get my flu vaccine as normal in September and if that's not available perhaps I will follow Donald Trump's suggestion and drink a bottle of bleach.

It was not Trump who said to drink bleach, it was Biden who reported Trump said that and what has gotten endlessly repeated: "Biden said Trump said drinking bleach could help fight the coronavirus. Trump did not specifically recommend ingesting disinfectants, but he did express interest in exploring whether disinfectants could be applied to the site of a coronavirus infection inside the body, such as the lungs."

Here are Trump's full comments:

“A question that probably some of you are thinking of if you’re totally into that world, which I find to be very interesting. So, supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. (To Bryan) And I think you said you’re going to test that, too. Sounds interesting, right?”

He continued.

“And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.”

Later, Trump clarified his comments after a reporter asked Bryan whether disinfectants could actually be injected into COVID-19 patients.

“It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.”

Trump did not explicitly recommend ingesting a disinfectant like bleach. Nevertheless, his remarks led some companies and state agencies to issue warnings about ingesting disinfectants.

At the time this incident took place the Biden campaign did not respond to a request for comment about what evidence the former vice president relied on when he claimed the president suggested Americans drink bleach to combat the virus.

 

[Burnt State]

I agree, exactly so. Why have they failed to adhere to their own protocols? Why are people so blithely ignoring that the protocols are not being followed? Protocols set in place to protect us ... now they are not needed? What has changed? I'd like Fauci to explain that in detail.

But that's not true at all. Normally vaccines take ten to fifteen years to develop because they wait on funding for every single step of the way from development to proper testing and review times.

With COVID because of the massive global need the outpouring of cash from governments to rush this process along meant that there were no delays in any step of the process and every single normal health protocol was deployed, tested and reviewed? Just where on earth do you go eat your information from, Facebook? All these statements need some serious fact checking.

Exactly so. Ivermectin is sitting there inexpensive and available, with a successful track record. Why not use it?

As does this one. All clinical trials have demonstrated that it is not a successful option and neither are the other wacko chemical concoctions proposed, along with Zinc and Lysol. If these worked don't you think poor countries would be loading up their peoples with these cheap options to stop their economy from tanking? Just what reality are you living in. There is no new world order. Countries who can wipp do whatever the hell they want. There is no lock step motion between Iran, USA, China, Nigeria, Canada, Sweden, North Korea etc.



If any of this made any sense it would be verified and deployed by North Korea and China in a heartbeat. Do you think there's some kind of mass conspiracy to stop every single country in the world from using Ivermectin or any other cheap option? Come on now. Let's think this through clearly.



There is no grand conspiracy for the global elite to kill off the masses because the global elite have their wealth tied directly to the value of companies that require mass amount of worker bees to build plastic disposable products and then buy those pieces of plastic junk to keep the damn economy going. Without the masses these companies would be dead and their wealth would be dead.

These conspiracies make zero sense.

 

[Burnt State]

Anyone who bucks the mainstream vaxxer narrative is automatically demonized.

Does he have a single researched fact to support any of his opinions? What are you basing his high accuracy on? Do you have 96.8 examples out of a 100 examples proving his global conspiracy bull crap about depopulating the planet, or any of his other wacko ideas?

What was the cause?

Type 1 diabetes is a genetic event affecting 1 in 130-170 people depending on where you live. Thanks to successful medical research by Mr. Banting and his student Mr. Best in Canada in 1921. People no longer die from this disease. That's science at work again, whaddya ya know? Medicine does work people. It's not guesswork or designed to kill you.

Lots was censored. Admissions by big media have even confirmed it.

What admissions form whom? This is an opinion article. It has no researched facts. All media outlets will not publish unverified conspiracies. Isn't that the sensible way to run a society?

Lab leaks aren't "conspiracy theories" — they're legitimate concerns, and the COVID lab leak is now widely accepted by objective rational researchers as the most likely source due to the actual science around it.

By whom for example? As far as I can see it's all just hypothesis and assumptions at this point. No real facts confirming anything have been found.

 

[Tyger]

But that's not true at all. Normally vaccines take ten to fifteen years to develop because they wait on funding for every single step of the way from development to proper testing and review times.

Nope. It's not the money. Vaccines typically take 10 to 15 years to develop due to the extensive processes involved, including research, preclinical testing, and multiple phases of clinical trials to ensure safety and efficacy. Each phase requires thorough evaluation and regulatory approval, which adds to the overall timeline. TIME - there's no rushing time.

With COVID because of the massive global need the outpouring of cash from governments to rush this process along meant that there were no delays in any step of the process and every single normal health protocol was deployed, tested and reviewed?

No amount of money could rush along TIME needed for the medical science protocols. The protocols are what they are for safety reasons.

Oh but they did have to fudge soooo much to get these vaccines to market. You want 'the rush' to be a humanitarian gesture, when it was in fact about profit: Vaccine companies made about USD 90 billion in profits on COVID-19 vaccines and medicines during 2021 and 2022.

neither are the other wacko chemical concoctions proposed, along with Zinc and Lysol.

No one has recommended Lysol. Only Biden said Trump recommended it. Trump made no such recommendation. Biden refused to show evidence for Trump making such a recommendation but this is one lie that has made it around the word at light speed.

If any of this made any sense it would be verified and deployed by North Korea and China in a heartbeat. Do you think there's some kind of mass conspiracy to stop every single country in the world from using Ivermectin or any other cheap option? Come on now. Let's think this through clearly.

No. You're jousting with a ghost. I never said anything of the sort. I know for a fact that Ivermectin is used in other countries but there is too much money on the line to report accurately on its efficacy. Ivermectin has to be denigrated so that the vaccines can qualify for emergency deployment.

There is no grand conspiracy for the global elite to kill off the masses because the global elite have their wealth tied directly to the value of companies that require mass amount of worker bees to build plastic disposable products and then buy those pieces of plastic junk to keep the damn economy going. Without the masses these companies would be dead and their wealth would be dead. These conspiracies make zero sense.

Here you are addressing whoever is in your head, because whoever that person is they have not been posting on this thread. You are a puzzle.

 

[Randall]

Does he have a single researched fact to support any of his opinions? What are you basing his high accuracy on? Do you have 96.8 examples out of a 100 examples proving his global conspiracy bull crap about depopulating the planet, or any of his other wacko ideas?

Yes I've read and listened to Miker Adams numerous times.

Type 1 diabetes is a genetic event affecting 1 in 130-170 people depending on where you live.

It's also caused by bad reactions to vaccines. Ask James Fox who got it after having to get vaxxed to go to South America. He was fine before that. Type 1 afterwards. Plus many other cases you never hear about. But hey — don't blame the vax — right? In fact, don't even whisper about it. Definitely don't do any actual digging.

​

What admissions form whom? This is an opinion article. It has no researched facts. All media outlets will not publish unverified conspiracies. Isn't that the sensible way to run a society?

In August 2024, Mark Zuckerberg stated in a letter to the House Judiciary Committee that senior Biden administration officials repeatedly pressured Meta for months in 2021 to censor specific COVID-19-related posts, including humor, satire, and vaccine criticisms. Pay attention to the real news for a change.

By whom for example? As far as I can see it's all just hypothesis and assumptions at this point. No real facts confirming anything have been found.

Plenty of "real facts" combine to prove the lab origin beyond a reasonable doubt ( to me ) without any admissions of guilt. You are of course perfectly free to be as dismissive of that as you want — even unreasonably so. The Select Committee On The Coronavirus Pandemic put this way in 2004:

"Four years after the onset of the worst pandemic in 100 years, the weight of the evidence increasingly supports the lab leak hypothesis. Since the Select Subcommittee commenced itswork in February 2023, more and more senior intelligence officials, politicians, science editors,and scientists increasingly have endorsed the hypothesis that COVID-191 emerged as the resultof a laboratory or research related accident."​

Download the report here: https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/2024.12.04-SSCP-FINAL-REPORT-ANS.pdf

Interestingly, papers and videos on the lab leak are mysteriously being memory holed — gone from original links and are increasingly much harder to find. As a "conspiracy theorist" — I naturally think this is part of the "cover-up". And even if I suggest the book below, you won't bother reading it — right? I did though — because I actually weigh both siodes of the arguments. In the book below, there's a bunch of really good reasons — versus a bunch of name calling critics in a state of denial.

 

[Burnt State]

Nope. It's not the money. Vaccines typically take 10 to 15 years to develop due to the extensive processes involved, including research, preclinical testing, and multiple phases of clinical trials to ensure safety and efficacy. Each phase requires thorough evaluation and regulatory approval, which adds to the overall timeline. TIME - there's no rushing time.

Uh, yeah, it is the money. Most vaccine development is slow motion access to cash. This was a global event. The cash was easy to secure. Governments wanted a solution to stop their economies from crashing and to save lives. All the standard timeline protocols for testing was completed. You can't fudge a vaccination. Thankfully scientists could use the mRna research that was already under way to create a viable solution quickly. These are the real.facrs of how it was developed in 11 months. It's not a fantasy.

No one has recommended Lysol.

Ivermectin has to be denigrated so that the vaccines can qualify for emergency deployment.

'ivermectin is an anti-parasitic drug, not an anti-viral, and does not cure or prevent COVID-19" - New York Times......prior to the vaccine some countries allowed this to be used but because it was ineffective it was recognized as not something worth promoting. If it did work it would have continued to be used by all who nought it over the counter. It's not being denigrated. It's just useless against a virus.

Here you are addressing whoever is in your head, because whoever that person is they have not been posting on this thread. You are a puzzle.

Actually you did at the start of this thread. The central plank behind Health Ranger 's conspiracy thinking is that the medical system is broken and the global elites are designing viruses that are going to kill us and kill people around us after we get vaccinated. The bigger puzzle is how you don't recognize the fullness of all the strange conspiracies you are putting forth and that these are in fact the things you are saying.

 

[Randall]

Pfizer & Moderna Synthetic mRNA Last in Body Much Longer Than initially Claimed​

 

[Burnt State]

Yes I've read and listened to Miker Adams numerous times.

So what ; are you the fact checker? Where are his facts coming from was the question.

It's also caused by bad reactions to vaccines. Ask James Fox who got it after having to get vaxxed to go to South America.

Jamie Foxx rep: Claims about COVID vaccine causing stroke are 'completely inaccurate'

Omg you are actually repeating an internet rumour as fast? Aer you kidding me? Is that the big research quality you are always talking about?

In August 2024, Mark Zuckerberg stated in a letter to the House Judiciary Committee that senior Biden administration officials repeatedly pressured Meta for months in 2021 to censor specific COVID-19-related posts, including humor, satire, and vaccine criticisms. Pay attention to the real news for a change.

Yes, he's agreeing not to promote conspiracies and untruths about a topic that was part of a health crisis. You can see the goal here is to try and save as many lives as possible through science and not muddying the critical health message by allowing people to spread untruths that will.cosr lives.

Plenty of "real facts" combine to prove the lab origin beyond a reasonable doubt ( to me ) without any admissions of guilt. You are of course perfectly free to be as dismissive of that as you want — even unreasonably so. The Select Committee On The Coronavirus Pandemic put this way in 2004:

It's still a hypotheses. I still have not seen evidence or facts. They've got people. Who worked w the lab with COVID. Did they also go to the fish market? Which came first? Do we have proof.

As for RFK jr. being a source of anything factual, especially on bioweapons, that's quite a stretch. What good is a weapon that will kill everyone on the planet when you can't invent a vaccine to stop it because vaccines don't work? Are you suggesting that 70's sci fi movie plots about engineered diseases is the smart thing current govts are doing? I'm sorry but your thinking is far from logical and you've still presented zero facts here to support any of this.

If anything you've demonstrates that you in fact do promote rumours and conspiracies as facts - listen to James Foxx.

 

[Randall]

Uh, yeah, it is the money. Most vaccine development is slow motion access to cash. This was a global event. The cash was easy to secure. Governments wanted a solution to stop their economies from crashing and to save lives.

It was the government that caused the economic hardship with lockdowns and mandates while printing billions to pay big pharma for a vax that caused millions of injuries and deaths.

All the standard timeline protocols for testing was completed. You can't fudge a vaccination.

No, the standard timeline protocols were not fully completed before emergency authorization because several years of long-term monitoring were condensed into a few months — that is not "standard"

What Was NOT Standard (The Timeline)

• Shorter monitoring window: Standard vaccine approvals usually require 1 to 3 years of safety monitoring before hitting the market. For the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA), the FDA allowed a shorter timeline of two months of safety data after the final dose.
• Manufacturing at risk: Factory production began while clinical trials were still active, rather than waiting for full approval first.

Thankfully scientists could use the mRna research that was already under way to create a viable solution quickly. These are the real.facrs of how it was developed in 11 months. It's not a fantasy.

Much of that research was risky — at least according to the guy who patented the mRNA platform . . .

'ivermectin is an anti-parasitic drug, not an anti-viral, and does not cure or prevent COVID-19" - New York Times......prior to the vaccine some countries allowed this to be used but because it was ineffective it was recognized as not something worth promoting. If it did work it would have continued to be used by all who nought it over the counter. It's not being denigrated. It's just useless against a virus.

Also not true according to thousands of patient experiences now:

Actually you did at the start of this thread. The central plank behind Health Ranger 's conspiracy thinking is that the medical system is broken and the global elites are designing viruses that are going to kill us and kill people around us after we get vaccinated. The bigger puzzle is how you don't recognize the fullness of all the strange conspiracies you are putting forth and that these are in fact the things you are saying.

Actually, Mike Adams has built an impressive reputation and business for himself by providing alt health info and products. But he's into a lot more than that, and is a good source for alt media perspectives on a varirty of topics. In this one he talks about A.I. investing.

 

[Randall]

So what ; are you the fact checker? Where are his facts coming from was the question.

I've already explained my position there. You're welcome to keep yours if you want.

Jamie Foxx rep: Claims about COVID vaccine causing stroke are 'completely inaccurate'

Not Jamie Fox — James Fox ( You'll have to ask him yourself. ) As related to . . .

Immunization with a number of different vaccines, including live and killed vaccines, has been linked to the development of insulin-dependent (type 1) diabetes in humans and animals. Multiple different mechanisms have been proposed to explain the association between vaccines and diabetes. The current paper reviews multiple different mechanisms by which vaccines are known to manipulate the immune system and can induce an autoimmune disease such as type 1 diabetes. Genetic variability may determine which of these pathways, or possible other pathways, predominate in an individual following immunization.

https://www.academia.edu/107524132/Vaccines_and_the_risk_of_insulin_dependent_diabetes_IDDM_potential_mechanism_of_action

Yes, he's agreeing not to promote conspiracies and untruths about a topic that was part of a health crisis.

That's not relevant to the point that it was still censorship by government & big media. Nice try.

It's still a hypotheses. I still have not seen evidence or facts. They've got people. Who worked w the lab with COVID. Did they also go to the fish market? Which came first? Do we have proof.

Like I said, don't read the books or the papers that indicate the opposite of what you believe ( like I do ).
That way you can keep pretending it's just a "conspiracy".

As for RFK jr. being a source of anything factual, especially on bioweapons, that's quite a stretch.

Argue the evidence with the sources in the book. Or don't — and remain uninformed.

 

[Richard Hawkins]

I've already explained my position there. You're welcome to keep yours if you want.

Not Jamie Fox — James Fox ( You'll have to ask him yourself. ) As related to . . .

Immunization with a number of different vaccines, including live and killed vaccines, has been linked to the development of insulin-dependent (type 1) diabetes in humans and animals. Multiple different mechanisms have been proposed to explain the association between vaccines and diabetes. The current paper reviews multiple different mechanisms by which vaccines are known to manipulate the immune system and can induce an autoimmune disease such as type 1 diabetes. Genetic variability may determine which of these pathways, or possible other pathways, predominate in an individual following immunization.

https://www.academia.edu/107524132/Vaccines_and_the_risk_of_insulin_dependent_diabetes_IDDM_potential_mechanism_of_action

That's not relevant to the point that it was still censorship by government & big media. Nice try.

Like I said, don't read the books or the papers that indicate the opposite of what you believe ( like I do ).
That way you can keep pretending it's just a "conspiracy".

Argue the evidence with the sources in the book. Or don't — and remain uninformed.

Agh well. I will miss Trump when he leaves office his comedic value is great. At least he didn't start a war which he can't win.? Oh wait he did. Well at least he didn't threaten to bomb a NATO allie.? Oh wait he did. I will stick with my vaccine Trump can stick with bleach.

 

[Randall]

Agh well. I will miss Trump when he leaves office his comedic value is great. At least he didn't start a war which he can't win.? Oh wait he did. Well at least he didn't threaten to bomb a NATO allie.? Oh wait he did. I will stick with my vaccine Trump can stick with bleach.

Maybe you forgot that Operation Warp Speed was Trump's baby. You can actually blame him for pretty much everything that went wrong with pandemic management — especially the vaccines. I'm still not entirely sure Biden wasn't animatronic.

Endonuclease fingerprint indicates a synthetic origin of SARS-CoV-2

Lay Summary

To construct synthetic variants of natural coronaviruses in the lab, researchers often use a methodcalled in vitro genome assembly. This method utilizes special enzymes called restriction enzymesto generate DNA building blocks that then can be “stitched” together in the correct order of the viral genome. To make a virus in the lab, researchers usually engineer the viral genome to add and remove stitching sites, called restriction sites. The ways researchers modify these sites canserve as fingerprints of in vitro genome assembly.

We found that SARS-CoV has the restriction site fingerprint that is typical for syntheticviruses. The synthetic fingerprint of SARS-CoV-2 is anomalous in wild coronaviruses, and common in lab-assembled viruses. The type of mutations (synonymous or silent mutations) that differentiate the restriction sites in SARS-CoV-2 are characteristic of engineering, and the concentration of these silent mutations in the restriction sites is extremely unlikely to have arisenby random evolution. Both the restriction site fingerprint and the pattern of mutations generating them are extremely unlikely in wild coronaviruses and nearly universal in synthetic viruses. Ourfindings strongly suggest a synthetic origin of SARS-CoV2.

 

[Richard Hawkins]

Maybe you forgot that Operation Warp Speed was Trump's baby. You can actually blame him for pretty much everything that went wrong with pandemic management — especially the vaccines. I'm still not entirely sure Biden wasn't animatronic.

Endonuclease fingerprint indicates a synthetic origin of SARS-CoV-2

Lay Summary

To construct synthetic variants of natural coronaviruses in the lab, researchers often use a methodcalled in vitro genome assembly. This method utilizes special enzymes called restriction enzymesto generate DNA building blocks that then can be “stitched” together in the correct order of the viral genome. To make a virus in the lab, researchers usually engineer the viral genome to add and remove stitching sites, called restriction sites. The ways researchers modify these sites canserve as fingerprints of in vitro genome assembly.

We found that SARS-CoV has the restriction site fingerprint that is typical for syntheticviruses. The synthetic fingerprint of SARS-CoV-2 is anomalous in wild coronaviruses, and common in lab-assembled viruses. The type of mutations (synonymous or silent mutations) that differentiate the restriction sites in SARS-CoV-2 are characteristic of engineering, and the concentration of these silent mutations in the restriction sites is extremely unlikely to have arisenby random evolution. Both the restriction site fingerprint and the pattern of mutations generating them are extremely unlikely in wild coronaviruses and nearly universal in synthetic viruses. Ourfindings strongly suggest a synthetic origin of SARS-CoV2.

Oh let me make it perfectly clear Biden should never of been in office and in many ways as corrupt as Trump. I see no difference between the two.

 

[Randall]

It's Not That People Couldn't Get It — It's That They Were Psyopped

Intentionally ( or otherwise ) — These tactics became standard fare in the battle for truth:

• Flooding the zone: A strategy of overwhelming the media, institutions, and public opposition with such a high volume of conflicting statements, technical data, and noise that people experience cognitive overload and lose the capacity for coherent critique.
• The Firehose of Falsehood: A prominent propaganda model characterized by high-volume, continuous, and repetitive multi-channel broadcasting that prioritizes volume and complexity over truth or consistency.
• Scientism" or "Weaponized Jargon: The misuse of authoritative scientific or pseudo-scientific terminology to intimidate non-experts, create a false aura of unassailable consensus, and dismiss critics as unqualified.
• Scientific Censorship / Information Suppression: Institutional or systemic actions aimed at obstructing opposing ideas or critical evidence from reaching an audience under the guise of technical quality control or protection of established norms.
• Cognitive Warfare: A modern military and psychological operations framework that treats human cognition (thoughts, beliefs, and reasoning) as a battlefield, using information saturation and narrative control to paralyze opposition.

I've come to the conclusion that the main reason so many people fell for the MSM Covid narrative, has to do with the above circumstances — delibertaely put in place by governments, institutions, and mass media. People not practiced in critical thinking, with little understanding of science, who had no time to dig beyond what they were being told by the MSM ( including the so-called "fact checkers" ) had little or no chance of recognizing what was really happening.

Now — in the post-covid era, quite a few people have woken-up. For those who haven't, it's impossible to rehash the events in order to create a picture that they can fully comprehend and appreciate — you had to live it. I saw what was happening only because I had the time to delve deeply into it for hours at a time on a daily basis for years. Through this lens of firsthand experience, dogged persistence, and the constant application of critical thought, the picture became clear to me. Meanwhile those who dug-in on the other side of the barricades just dug-in further.

Worse still, evidence is being memory holed by the same dark forces. Links to papers and videos are disappearing, and the perpetrators are denying that they did or said what they clearly did and said — or are simply refusing to comply with official investigators. But why bother caring anout any of this?

The main reason I continue to post about Covid era concerns here is because of one person — @Gene Steinberg. Otherwise you wouldn't be reading this. I see the opening-up of the subject as a positive step forward, and remain hopeful that someday I can welcome him to the Freedom Front ( figuratively ). More importantly, I hope that things continue to improve for him personally, Gene ( if your reading this ) I miss the good old days when I was just an occasional troublemaker and COB was still with us

 

[Burnt State]

I've already explained my position there. You're welcome to keep yours if you want.

Not Jamie Fox — James Fox ( You'll have to ask him yourself. ) As related to . . .

Immunization with a number of different vaccines, including live and killed vaccines, has been linked to the development of insulin-dependent (type 1) diabetes in humans and animals. Multiple different mechanisms have been proposed to explain the association between vaccines and diabetes. The current paper reviews multiple different mechanisms by which vaccines are known to manipulate the immune system and can induce an autoimmune disease such as type 1 diabetes. Genetic variability may determine which of these pathways, or possible other pathways, predominate in an individual following immunization.

https://www.academia.edu/107524132/Vaccines_and_the_risk_of_insulin_dependent_diabetes_IDDM_potential_mechanism_of_action

That's not relevant to the point that it was still censorship by government & big media. Nice try.

Like I said, don't read the books or the papers that indicate the opposite of what you believe ( like I do ).
That way you can keep pretending it's just a "conspiracy".

Argue the evidence with the sources in the book. Or don't — and remain uninformed.

I'm going to have to say, as I did before, that your sources of science and information just do not correlate. I can not find a James Fox anywhere that got diabetes type 1 following covid. And as you know already "Correlation is not Causation'.

All the papers you point to on academia.edu do not appear to correlate with the general worldwide statistics that demonstrate children who get vaccinated do not present higher in the type 1 population. You might be referending failed studies by Classen that have been dismissed by reputable science regarding an attempt to correlate type 1 with vaccination.

You get your info from Joe Rogan, and Facebook and YouTube where there are in fact no real critically researched findings associated with them at all. It's not a way to make decisions to support illness in society. It's the basic conspiracy trope of the narrow band channel where you only listen to what confirms your bias.

Even your discussion on the CDC timelines are interpretive to fit your model. Operation Warp Speed from Trump set out to run everything concurrently instead of waiting after each phase, including manufacturing, with the decision being that after review of all the standard safety protocols which were completed if it turned out to be a bust then the government was going to just eat that expense. But that's not how history went.

What I don't really get, in this discussion where you lack a lot of corroborating scientific data across the history or vaccination, is what you think the outcomes would have been for society if there was no vaccine? You point to ivermectin as some kind of success because lone wolf doctors with absolutely zero scientific studies say that it works on a YouTube channel?! You call that science? Scientifically it can't work.

I just don't understand the leaps in logic you make or your insistence that false facts, false science are true because big pharma is shutting it all down. You've moved into 9-11 conspiracy territory by denying reality in favour of manipulated and flawed data. It's impossible to have a discussion that arrives anywhere real when the things you cite have no basis in reality and are at best anecdotal and conspiratorial in nature.

You've yet to produce a single accredited study that jives with the actual history of COVID, it's effects on society, or with the history of vaccines. You ignore basic realities which include things like the increase in preventable disease and even childhood death due to lack of vaccination.

By extension, just thinking through things logically regarding diseases and vaccinations, just what exactly is killing 95,000 kids annually in developing countries that contract measles and have no vaccination for it, vs. the minimal deaths in first world countries from measles where we have a vaccination. Is it magic? Is it aliens? Is it a conspiracy or is it science? These basic flaws in your thinking are evident throughout this discussion. I've tried twice now, but I must remember you just can't talk with someone reasonably about a topic - be it religion, UFO's or apparently vaccination (even though that topic has real established facts associated with it) - when they've moved into believer status.

You're a believer and I'm open to looking at the science of it all. I just don't see any real facts underlying the vast amount of opinion, correlation causation fallacies and bogus science.

So once again, I'm done. I've said what I needed to about the actual history facts and science of vaccination, which are readily apparent through the basic contemporary analysis of countries with and without vaccination when it comes to childhood death. Why you can't see that is mind boggling.


Just imagine a world without vaccination - everyone is dead, paralyzed or sick and dying, the health system is overwhelmed and every fly outbreak brings more death and misery.

Is that what you are arguing for?

 

[Randall]

I'm going to have to say, as I did before, that your sources of science and information just do not correlate. I can not find a James Fox anywhere that got diabetes type 1 following covid. And as you know already "Correlation is not Causation'.

All the papers you point to on academia.edu do not appear to correlate with the general worldwide statistics that demonstrate children who get vaccinated do not present higher in the type 1 population. You might be referending failed studies by Classen that have been dismissed by reputable science regarding an attempt to correlate type 1 with vaccination.

You get your info from Joe Rogan, and Facebook and YouTube where there are in fact no real critically researched findings associated with them at all. It's not a way to make decisions to support illness in society. It's the basic conspiracy trope of the narrow band channel where you only listen to what confirms your bias.

Even your discussion on the CDC timelines are interpretive to fit your model. Operation Warp Speed from Trump set out to run everything concurrently instead of waiting after each phase, including manufacturing, with the decision being that after review of all the standard safety protocols which were completed if it turned out to be a bust then the government was going to just eat that expense. But that's not how history went.

What I don't really get, in this discussion where you lack a lot of corroborating scientific data across the history or vaccination, is what you think the outcomes would have been for society if there was no vaccine? You point to ivermectin as some kind of success because lone wolf doctors with absolutely zero scientific studies say that it works on a YouTube channel?! You call that science? Scientifically it can't work.

I just don't understand the leaps in logic you make or your insistence that false facts, false science are true because big pharma is shutting it all down. You've moved into 9-11 conspiracy territory by denying reality in favour of manipulated and flawed data. It's impossible to have a discussion that arrives anywhere real when the things you cite have no basis in reality and are at best anecdotal and conspiratorial in nature.

You've yet to produce a single accredited study that jives with the actual history of COVID, it's effects on society, or with the history of vaccines. You ignore basic realities which include things like the increase in preventable disease and even childhood death due to lack of vaccination.

By extension, just thinking through things logically regarding diseases and vaccinations, just what exactly is killing 95,000 kids annually in developing countries that contract measles and have no vaccination for it, vs. the minimal deaths in first world countries from measles where we have a vaccination. Is it magic? Is it aliens? Is it a conspiracy or is it science? These basic flaws in your thinking are evident throughout this discussion. I've tried twice now, but I must remember you just can't talk with someone reasonably about a topic - be it religion, UFO's or apparently vaccination (even though that topic has real established facts associated with it) - when they've moved into believer status.

You're a believer and I'm open to looking at the science of it all. I just don't see any real facts underlying the vast amount of opinion, correlation causation fallacies and bogus science.

So once again, I'm done. I've said what I needed to about the actual history facts and science of vaccination, which are readily apparent through the basic contemporary analysis of countries with and without vaccination when it comes to childhood death. Why you can't see that is mind boggling.

Just imagine a world without vaccination - everyone is dead, paralyzed or dying.

Little ( or none ) of that is valid counterpoint. You've just issued denials, made unsubstantiated proclamations, employed logical fallacies, and shown obvious bias. So although your commentary and feelings about it are perfectly okay from a freedom of expression perspective — they doen't carry much weight in the context of an intellectual debate.

Apart from that — even if the scales were tipped heavily in your favor ( which they're not ), it would still mean that the number of valid points I've made already is more than enough to grant people the freedom to freely choose without madates or other forms of coersion, what pharmaceuticals get injected into their own bodies and those of their children — or do you really think all of the evidence I've presented has zero value, and that forcing pharmaceuticals on citizens and kids is just fine?

Now — if you're actually not that low, and are just playing some sort of game to keep me engaged on this site for some unrelated reason, and you don't actually care about these issues — thanks! It's not only helping bring some life to this desolate piece of cyberspace, but helping me sharpen my arguments for the truly wilfully ignorant authoritarians who refuse to wake-up.