Why do we still demand that....

[Brain Matter?]

Why does the human race still demand that you have kids?
There are to many humans in most countries as it is!

I’m talking more society presser than anything else.
If you’re a forty year old man/woman that’s got no children you get patronised allot. Your looked down upon like someone that wanted them but couldn’t find someone to have them with. (maybe you just didn’t want to go down that road)

I think it’s a bad stigma for society to have.

Is it a case of that’s what we are built for so that’s what we must do?

 

[aNorthernSoul]

Personally, and yes I am biased as a father... I think being a parent is essential to your growth as an individual... no matter what species you are. Now, that being said, not everyone is ready for that stage of their development, but it is a major stepping stone in your own personal growth. So, whatever society says on the issue really doesn't matter to me. I do think it is an important step in your own personal evolution though.

 

[David Biedny]

I am not a parent, and not once have I ever regretted that decision. Not even a little.

dB

 

[CapnG]

I'm right there with you Brain. People who do not want children should not be looked down upon. In fact, a large part of the reason there are so many abusive parents and broken homes in the world probably stems from societal pressure on people who don't want kids but consent to breeding anyway.

I hear it all the time, couched in phrases like "maturity" and "being a real man", etc. etc. I say that's a load of crap. I have a house and a mortgage. That's about as much maturity as I think I can handle right now.

Actually I think the main source of that pressure might be jealousy. Family types see us non-parents all unencumbered by obligation and breifly recall what it was to be free.

 

[bogie13p]

Yep, most people feel like they are supposed to. It also seems like the people who shouldn't breed at all, have extra children.

Out of all of my friends, my husband and I are the most stable (financially and emotionally). Yet we are the only ones who don't have kids. My husband agreed with me way before we got married that we never wanted to have children. We love the freedom of getting to enjoy each others company. Other people may think we are selfish for thinking like this, but we don't care and we don't think it is a bad thing.

If by some random chance I changed my mind (which won't happen), I would adopt a girl and name her after me. I hate that girls hardly ever do that. Guys do it for generations, I think girls should have the right to be just as conceited. haha

 

[aNorthernSoul]

I just want to be clear, by saying "now, that being said, not everyone is ready for that stage of their development" I am basically saying I don't think less of anyone who opts out, but personally, there is a lot to learn about oneself in being a parent, but obviously not everyone wants/needs that lesson. It's definitely life altering, so going in without the dedication required can only end in disaster. At the same time, it can be the greatest experience you'll ever know. It's pretty much impossible to describe, but no... I don't fault anyone who deems it not the path they want to go down. That's where we find ourselves in trouble no matter the topic. As an aside though, judging maturity based on a mortgage, job, social class etc is just as bad, in my opinion. But I digress....

 

[Will Penguin]

Personally, and yes I am biased as a father... I think being a parent is essential to your growth as an individual... no matter what species you are. Now, that being said, not everyone is ready for that stage of their development, but it is a major stepping stone in your own personal growth.

I'm sorry, but I have to say I find this condescending. Would you go up to someone who was infertile and tell them that they're born lacking something "essential to their growth as an individual"?

I dont doubt that reproducing has been a big part of what makes you who you are, but it's insulting to insinuate that other people's "personal growth" is retarded by not having kids. We all have our own path to take, and for some of us, like me, that path doesn't involve this. (And I'm happy to say I just became engaged to a wonderful lady that fees the same way)

There's whole other realms of ways to lend meaning to life aside from reproduction.

 

[aNorthernSoul]

I'm sorry, but I have to say I find this condescending. Would you go up to someone who was infertile and tell them that they're born lacking something "essential to their growth as an individual"?

I dont doubt that reproducing has been a big part of what makes you who you are, but it's insulting to insinuate that other people's "personal growth" is retarded by not having kids. We all have our own path to take, and for some of us, like me, that path doesn't involve this. (And I'm happy to say I just became engaged to a wonderful lady that fees the same way)

There's whole other realms of ways to lend meaning to life aside from reproduction.

If life is about experience then you don't know until you do right? I am sure giving birth is like this. My inability to do so, something I will never be able to do, would act like a stumbling block in one area of growth. Or what about throwing yourself into charities? The total giving of oneself for another in a different angle but similar to parenting. I have never done this and so it is an area of life I could still grow in. It's not condescending, it's just until you have experience, that part of you in theory, could experience further growth. I think the issue is that we immediately jump on the defensive assuming the person making such a statement sees life as a contest... assuming they think someone else is less than them because they haven't experienced it. I don't, personally. I'm more of a "if you decide to do it, you'll be amazed at how it changes you. And if you don't, that's cool too." I would like to one day experience everything, of course, that's not possible and so there will always be areas of my life where I too will be missing out on some elements of my own evolution. Again, it's not being condescending, it's just a fact. It doesn't make one better than the other, as it's all just an individual's journey, in my opinion... as is pretty much everything in these posts of mine.

 

[Will Penguin]

Out of all of my friends, my husband and I are the most stable (financially and emotionally). Yet we are the only ones who don't have kids. My husband agreed with me way before we got married that we never wanted to have children. We love the freedom of getting to enjoy each others company. Other people may think we are selfish for thinking like this, but we don't care and we don't think it is a bad thing.

Having kids is just as selfish a choice as not having them. You trusted your judgement and made a family of two together, and that's just fine, no matter what anyone says.

If by some random chance I changed my mind (which won't happen), I would adopt a girl and name her after me. I hate that girls hardly ever do that. Guys do it for generations, I think girls should have the right to be just as conceited. haha

On a similar note, my fiance and I (who, as I said, are NOT having kids) are going to take each others names on, with hyphens. It felt a lot more right for us than one of us taking the other's last name, or just leaving them unchanged.

 

[bogie13p]

We actually left ours unchanged. I would have done the hyphen thing, but my last name is kinda long and would have been really long if I added his. Plus less paperwork. :

 

[pixelsmith]

There are to many humans in most countries as it is!

don't worry, our handlers will take care of it this fall. if the man/bird/pig flu doesnt get you, the "cure" will.

 

[Will Penguin]

We actually left ours unchanged. I would have done the hyphen thing, but my last name is kinda long and would have been really long if I added his. Plus less paperwork. :

My entire, name, counting my middle name, is going to be 26 characters.


I figured what the hell, you only live once, and as it stands my full name is 21 already.

 

[CapnG]

As an aside though, judging maturity based on a mortgage, job, social class etc is just as bad, in my opinion.

Like it or not, society judges maturity (and even social worth) based on the following criteria:

Job
Car
House
Marriage
Children

Personally I think it's all crap. A person's maturity (and/or social worth) should be judged on who they are not what they have. However, given that it is a societal judgement, seperating out children from that list is splitting hairs out of personal convenience. The fact is society as a whole judges you more "mature" for having children than it does those of us who don't.

 

[aNorthernSoul]

Like it or not, society judges maturity (and even social worth) based on the following criteria:

Job
Car
House
Marriage
Children

Personally I think it's all crap. A person's maturity (and/or social worth) should be judged on who they are not what they have. However, given that it is a societal judgement, seperating out children from that list is splitting hairs out of personal convenience. The fact is society as a whole judges you more "mature" for having children than it does those of us who don't.

Yeah, sadly you are right... of course, thankfully I am not one to follow the trends of society.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

Why does the human race still demand that you have kids?...
Is it a case of that’s what we are built for so that’s what we must do?

what are we built for? as any species, to reproduce. why do we need to reproduce? to keep ourselves reproducing.

Survival of the fittest gives you a goal to head for, the fittest survive, and produce superior offspring (hopefully superior) and as the fittest of those survive, the species evolves to a much better version. It is a loop that doesn't allow for side roads.

I am still waiting for signs we have our 'fittest' surviving and reproducing a superior version of ourselves

Being a bit more serious, now, I see better things in my children than in me, better things in me than in my parents, and I hope for my grandchildren to be better than their parents. Each succeeding generation owes it to themselves to try to be better in some way and no worse in any way, than the generation before it.

children are a way of telling the future you are not really afraid of it, you want to be part of it.

And until humans figure out that there are many different ways of being part of the future other than through propogation, I suppose us 'with' will likely feel a bit sorry for and possibly 'superior' to those 'without'.

There is something to be said for knowing there is a chance your genes will live on thousands of years after you have died, that somewhere in the future a descendant of yours may do something absolutely world-changing.

On the other hand, you could wind up spawning the ancestor of another guy with a bad moustache. You take your chances, but as long as you have children survive you, the possibility exists. Without children, that possibility is wiped from existence and your genes are gone from the available mix forever.


I think those who do not reproduce by choice do not really need to explain themselves - unless they are an only child and their mother is looking for grandchildren. In that case, I do feel a lot of sympathy for you.

Any way, some random thoughts on the subject, trying to get a 'fix' on the most common reasons behind 'with' 'without' for those who are able to choose.

 

[bogie13p]

My entire, name, counting my middle name, is going to be 26 characters.


I figured what the hell, you only live once, and as it stands my full name is 21 already.

lol, mine would have been exactly 26 too if I added his name.

 

[Brain Matter?]

I'm so glad there are more people like me in the world! I thought i was the only one.

I'm 28 with a 4 year long girlfreind and a mortgage (together) but i know i would not cut it as a dad, i think of myself as a 28 year old boy.

Untill that changes(i might never feel like i can cut it) i wont have children.

I will feel like i have missed out on something but im not putting a kid through me being crap.

 

[aNorthernSoul]

I'm 28 with a 4 year long girlfreind and a mortgage (together) but i know i would not cut it as a dad, i think of myself as a 28 year old boy.

Untill that changes(i might never feel like i can cut it) i wont have children.

I will feel like i have missed out on something but im not putting a kid through me being crap.

Well to be honest, the world would likely be a better place if more people did what you have done... evaluate themselves and where they are at in life and what their priorities are before jumping into parenting. If anything, I think that speaks very highly for you.

 

[Will Penguin]

what are we built for? as any species, to reproduce. why do we need to reproduce? to keep ourselves reproducing.

When the day comes that we're threatened as a species by reproducing too little, rather than too much, I suppose I see the appeal of this argument more.

Without children, that possibility is wiped from existence and your genes are gone from the available mix forever.

Why should I care?

And until humans figure out that there are many different ways of being part of the future other than through propogation, I suppose us 'with' will likely feel a bit sorry for and possibly 'superior' to those 'without'.

There is something to be said for knowing there is a chance your genes will live on thousands of years after you have died, that somewhere in the future a descendant of yours may do something absolutely world-changing.

I believe we will all be part of the future, whether or not we reproduce.

In any event, I don't assume my genes are the bee's knees and a huge gift to future generations. I'm just some dude.

 

[Will Penguin]

Having a black lab, on the other hand..