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The Undeniable Link Between UFOs & Consciousness...Imagine that!

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I think you're right that technically speaking, we can't perceive objective reality, because it's always perceived through our subjective perceptual and interpretive filters. However that doesn't mean that we don't know it's there.
Well, we do perceive objective reality, but what we must keep in mind is that our perception of objective reality is distinct from objective reality.

So for example, two creatures viewing the same objective reality will have different perceptions of objective reality:

vision01.jpg


o-TWO-PEOPLE-TALKING-facebook.jpg


What most of us are inclined to believe however is that the second image, the one that corresponds to our own experience of objective reality, shows us how objective reality "really" is. Both of the perceptions above offer things the other doesnt that are truly correspond to aspects (stimuli) of objective reality, and both are missing things that correspond to objective reality.

But we have no good reason to make the claim that our human perceptions are somehow True while the perceptions of other entities are less True. As burnt noted, each species perceives objective reality in a species-specific way.

Another key to consider is that our perceptions correspond to stimuli in reality as opposed to being stimuli in reality.

So for example, when we perceive sun rays to "be" warm, we confuse the perception of warmth with the rays of sun. Our perception of warmth only corresponds to the sun rays.

Its conceivable that for another creature with a different physiology, sun rays would be perceived as feeling cold. Or perhaps they would be perceived as feeling X, where X equals some sensation that we humans cannot even fathom.

The example above of the two ways of seeing is actually very tame. Its very possible—i'd even say likely—that some creatures perceive reality in ways that are completely alien to us. Its not just that they see, hear, feel, smell, etc. in different ways than us humans. Its possible that they have perceptions (sensations) that we can't even comprehend.

The implications of this are profound. Unfortunately i havent had much time to read, think, and discuss more about it.

For example, neuroscientists (and others) have been attempting to explain the existence of consciousness by studying the physical structures and processes of the brain. The issue however is that our perception of a brain does not capture the entirety of the corresponding process occuring in objective reality.

In other words, I believe most (physicalist) scientists are putting the cart before the horse. They are trying to use perceived brain processes to explain the origin of consciousness. They make the presupposition that the perceived brain accurately captures the structure/process occuring in objective reality.

What we must keep in mind (heh) however is that our perception of a brain does not fully capture the corresponding process occuring in objective reality.

The brain as perceived by humans is complex enough, but to consider that the actual corresponding process taking place in objective reality is even more complex than we can perceive is tough to grok.

And then yes, what this means for the field of ufology is profound as well. If its true that the "mundane" objects we perceive around us correspond to processes in objective reality but do not fully capture these processes, than imagine the implications for UFO experiences. Is it possible that some ufo and paranormal experiences are instances wherein humans have encountered processes (or entities) existing within objective reality but of such a kind that the human species-specific perceptual system is not equipped to deal with for reasons of non-evolutionary adaptiveness?

I agree that there is an external stimulus.
 
Well, we do perceive objective reality, but what we must keep in mind is that our perception of objective reality is distinct from objective reality ...
We're on the same page and just mincing of words over the interpretation of what "perceiving objective reality means", and I took it to mean what I think was being suggested by @Burnt State , which ( and Burnt, please correct me if my assumption was wrong there ) which was that you were making the point that objective reality exists separately from our mental construct of it and therefore our perception of it as a mental construct is not the same as whatever it actually is out there in objective reality land. We're still just perceiving pictures in our head ( or other sensory interpretations ).
 
Thank you Soupie for expressing my own thoughts on this perceptual dilemma as well as the problems of trying to know how our brains connect to consciousness in a very clear and thoughtful manner.

Where this leaves us then with regards to the UFO experience is that some human experiences may simply be only fragments of a reality not fully comprehended. While in time the human mind will continue to create new ways to perceive that which the limits of our physiology can not, at this point we only have the witness to study.

For those who wish to explore the "reality" of UFO's time may be better spent looking at the human response to these events historically to note the sociological elements that are interwoven with the idea of what it means to see and experience something extraordinary, that rare thing we call the paranormal.
 
Thank you Soupie for expressing my own thoughts on this perceptual dilemma as well as the problems of trying to know how our brains connect to consciousness in a very clear and thoughtful manner.

Where this leaves us then with regards to the UFO experience is that some human experiences may simply be only fragments of a reality not fully comprehended. While in time the human mind will continue to create new ways to perceive that which the limits of our physiology can not, at this point we only have the witness to study.

For those who wish to explore the "reality" of UFO's time may be better spent looking at the human response to these events historically to note the sociological elements that are interwoven with the idea of what it means to see and experience something extraordinary, that rare thing we call the paranormal.

Excellent point. Until we ( the general public ) get a physical craft to reverse engineer, or get the results of secret projects that are alleged to have been doing that, IMO the witness is in and of themselves our best evidence. In fact they're the best "trace evidence" there is. A broken branch here, an indent there, doesn't even begin to compare. Even though our perceptual capacity has limits, it provides far more richness of detail than the majority of static evidence, that is, short of verifiable scientifically valid material evidence directly from a UFO.

However, what I'm picking up from you as well seems to be a bit more nuanced than that. If I'm getting you correctly, you're saying that by carefully looking at the limitations of our perceptions, combined with sociological elements that may color our interpretations, we can filter out more of the signal from the noise? If so. I couldn't agree more. If I don't have that quite right, maybe you could elaborate a bit with an example. For example in the 1964 Socorro Landing Incident ( The Zamora case ), there were bits of trace evidence found at the scene, but it's Zamora's eyewitness account that gives us the greatest detail ... but ( and this is where you might be able to add something ) ... there are sociological and historical factors to consider ( examples here ) that may result in multiple interpretations ...
 
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So this material has come to you, or been confirmed, through visions and dreams? Are there other specific texts or other resources you have used to bring you to these conclusions? What is your history, if you don't mind me asking, regarding your relationship to occultism, science and religion?

Persona experience from being irradiated as a constant life condition, just like all of humanity and Nature. As each of us owns a unique mind/body by DNA mutative bodies, we each gain a different perspective of atmospheric photon feed back. Feed back in the atmosphere records all bodies as an owned photon interaction and the photon image communicates information about other bodies we personally do not own.

As I lived, my living family in recordings have communicated their own experiences to me, just as the past lived experience, recorded has also done.

As irradiation increased and meteors began to fallout in greater numbers, the past occult records of the ancient Pope that was irradiated in a meteor attack formed a holographic message that spoke to me. Therefore our occult brother began to personally inform me of his occult secrets. I previously lived as a spiritual minded human, who applied healing studies.

Our brother via all of his own living experiences in atmospheric information advised me about what he understands himself as a scientist. Sadly before he gets his information fed back by his personal questions, the fake/alien manifested body takes his informed GOD feed back away from him. I have been hearing our Father give him his advice, yet he never personally receives it. Our Native brother no longer hears the spiritual science advice either for his chemical mind healed differently by atmospheric conditions.....for personal history stated that it was a native spiritual male who invented occultism.

The information states the obvious......all machines already own a pattern/plan that involves part of the interactive condition that the natural fusion/conversion applies. Our brother builds the machine in partial ownership itself of the applied aware fed back informed mind theory he gains. Therefore the machine, the collider already artificially owns some of the natural reaction and it is about time that our occult brother realized that he is only attacking stone.
 
Persona experience from being irradiated as a constant life condition, just like all of humanity and Nature. As each of us owns a unique mind/body by DNA mutative bodies, we each gain a different perspective of atmospheric photon feed back. Feed back in the atmosphere records all bodies as an owned photon interaction and the photon image communicates information about other bodies we personally do not own.

As I lived, my living family in recordings have communicated their own experiences to me, just as the past lived experience, recorded has also done.

As irradiation increased and meteors began to fallout in greater numbers, the past occult records of the ancient Pope that was irradiated in a meteor attack formed a holographic message that spoke to me. Therefore our occult brother began to personally inform me of his occult secrets. I previously lived as a spiritual minded human, who applied healing studies.

Our brother via all of his own living experiences in atmospheric information advised me about what he understands himself as a scientist. Sadly before he gets his information fed back by his personal questions, the fake/alien manifested body takes his informed GOD feed back away from him. I have been hearing our Father give him his advice, yet he never personally receives it. Our Native brother no longer hears the spiritual science advice either for his chemical mind healed differently by atmospheric conditions.....for personal history stated that it was a native spiritual male who invented occultism.

The information states the obvious......all machines already own a pattern/plan that involves part of the interactive condition that the natural fusion/conversion applies. Our brother builds the machine in partial ownership itself of the applied aware fed back informed mind theory he gains. Therefore the machine, the collider already artificially owns some of the natural reaction and it is about time that our occult brother realized that he is only attacking stone.

Yeah, we've all been radiated in this lifetime and plasticized. It's a shitty life growing up in the modern era in the dawn of the digital revolution.

Interesting....I also record family history - a lifetime of ghosts as it was relayed to me.

My healing studies have been mostly Buddhist in nature, applying mindfulness where possible...

I agree that technology follows its own ends that is not really too concerned about the human condition in the slightest. We will be changed severely by it all in ways far more radical than we can imagine.

When you say our ocult brother is only atracking stone could you explain that a little or point me to a post where you define that as I think I read something about that from you up above in this thread but you speak in metaphor and so maybe you could explain your idea of 'stone' a little more - do you mean the structures we build or the natural occurring rock/minerals etc.?

So what do you see as better next steps for humanity?
 
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I agree that there is an external stimulus. And I also agree that there may very well be something alien, but bot necessarily ET that's responsible for what witnesses see. What i don't trust is that what they think they saw was a flying saucer was what it appeared to be in objective reality. As the years go by on sighting reports we can't ignore that what gets reported changes over time according to our own technology. Many like to credit this to the manipulations of the pilots of UFO's whereas I credit what's inside the brain of the witmess. That brain is trying to make sense of a strange external reality and depending on the existing imagery in that brain's record banks they might see a flying saucer or an airship or a flying tank or a blob of light.....so yes something is there but I don't trust that neural processing system that is very entangled in its own cultural and sociological issues based on the perceiver's personal history.

Good points. Our existing worldviews do indeed shape our interpretations. The great Thunderbird of native lore may not have been a bird at all, but how else would they explain it? Even if it were just a jet airplane, they would have had no idea what to make of it. A big thundering bird would make perfect sense to them. But does that really apply to the modern world? We're now far better equipped to look at strange phenomena and use analytical tools and experience about the universe to extrapolate scientifically plausible explanations, which IMO are the best choices we have among the available options. Unless you can suggest something else?
 
Thank you Soupie for expressing my own thoughts on this perceptual dilemma as well as the problems of trying to know how our brains connect to consciousness in a very clear and thoughtful manner.

*Where this leaves us then with regards to the UFO experience is that some human experiences may simply be only fragments of a reality not fully comprehended. While in time the human mind will continue to create new ways to perceive that which the limits of our physiology can not, at this point we only have the witness to study.

For those who wish to explore the "reality" of UFO's time may be better spent looking at the human response to these events historically to note the sociological elements that are interwoven with the idea of what it means to see and experience something extraordinary, that rare thing we call the paranormal.

I too believe @Soupie 's contributions to be extremely "on point" with respect to UFOs and the nature of material or physical reality.

*This absolutely echoes my suspicions as well. Maybe I'm wrong, but it justifiably seems like the purest of logic to me. Semantics can get us, as in anyone of us, in trouble. This is because frankly, as I myself am brought face to face with this concept routinely, we simply do not know the questions to ask let alone are we certain of the correct terminology that the questions consist of, and the answers contain. So we struggle and by the weight of our speculative struggles we hope for an accuracy of theoretical reconciliation. So it is.

Everything (IMO) that is fascinating about consciousness studies points to nonlocal awareness and a host of intermeshing quantum mechanical behavioral attributes. What are the many veridically evidenced cases that support the essence of human awareness as being both locally and temporally non dependent on/within "objective reality", or what is the realm of strict materialism and physicalism, is nothing short of impressive. It is my own opinion that consciousness is the nontemporal medium that hosts a neutrality, or pure potential, of information that our individual temporally relative cognitive awareness and influence acts upon, and subsequently remembers as experience. This is to say that I believe the human condition, while being both extremely special and precious, to be a temporal physical host to what is only be a very small part of a much larger energetic force. UFOs, or the energetic signatures responsible for them, most likely utilize this neutral informational potential much like we use the various physical informational derivations like air and water, to interface our indigenous experiential reality. Because of the fact that our own experiential reality is a cognitively relevant reflection of this same informational neutrality that they are traversing, we by virtue of natural cognitive process, at the behest of social influence, determine their transitory energetic signatures within the neutral informational realm of consciousness as appearing to be what we witness them as being.

I think you're right Burnt State, I think something independent of the witness, or witnesses, is externally stimulating their cognitive experience. I think the reason we see what we see is due to that something, by means of it's own volition is interacting with the informational realm of consciousness that human beings depend on to assemble the perceptive experiences that we call reality. Most likely, we really are witness to a nonhuman interaction within our immediate native environment. But with what exactly, I have no clue.

If you look closely at the myriad of anthropological developmental studies, as well as other culturally relevant religious beliefs and folkloric legends, one may take note of this same type of monotypical anomaly whereby single and multiply witnessed paranormal events have been documented to constitute large scale belief systems such as faerie folk. A similar typology of paranormal unfolding is that of the informational transmogrification anomaly that occurs amid the socially reinforced belief network of specific era and people relevant folklore called skinwalkers, trolls, werewolves, etc.
 
Yeah, we've all been radiated in this lifetime and plasticized. It's a shitty life growing up in the modern era in the dawn of the digital revolution.

Interesting....I also record family history - a lifetime of ghosts as it was relayed to me.

My healing studies have been mostly Buddhist in nature, applying mindfulness where possible...

I agree that technology follows its own ends that is not really too concerned about the human condition in the slightest. We will be changed severely by it all in ways far more radical than we can imagine.

When you say our ocult brother is only atracking stone could you explain that a little or point me to a post where you define that as I think I read something about that from you up above in this thread but you speak in metaphor and so maybe you could explain your idea of 'stone' a little more - do you mean the structures we build or the natural occurring rock/minerals etc.?

So what do you see as better next steps for humanity?

Stone by his own consideration as a theory was that radiated stone matter was brought together to form Planet Earth, and that this type of body was formed by the Sun exploding.....his own theory.

The spiritual mind always knew that origin creation came from light, light that formed O from out of a massed light body that once filled in space and was referenced as origin, and if you want to consider value and information, our consciousness formed these values and information as reference to the wisdom of the mistake, as its own evidence.

The spirit in origin an androgynous presence that made a mistake, and who continues to communicates to our own organic lower manifested form to allow us to know that we only exist because of a mistake. So we live the mistake. Living the mistake allows us to understand why the mistake was made. The male light spirit who became a human male, knows that his own reference as a conscious consideration is that of Creator, for his own androgynous spirit became a human male light spirit as the evidence that this androgynous being caused the activation to change light mass.

As he was the changer of the light mass, then he began his life manifestation with a different mind, having lost his surrounding light sound. This light mass became creation O as many light sounds that exploded when the mass previously surrounding O the manifesting bodies...and it disappeared. Creation created naturally by the spirit who activated the change, the human male self, who eventuated into his own manifestation later. This is why he continues to express as a conscious realization that he actually belongs himself in out of space, wants to return to out of space, keeps implying that we all belong to out of space.....yet his own androgynous self should go there himself and stop destroying our natural life.

If you believe in ownership of stone, then go to out of space where stone is owned by space, without any supportive body to give you the existence to destroy us all.

The male states....black body radiation created stone, yet black body radiation is an exploded Sun. If a Sun still existing as a burning light is his consideration that the Sun created stone, then this body did create stone as an evaluation and this body still exists today....black body radiation exists as an exploded Sun destroyed.

If you ask the male, what did you evaluate to consider the creation of stone? He says the nuclear dust, a different form of stone. This stone was once crystal fusion on Earth that was irradiated by the black body radiation streams, converted into a instantaneous colder fusion of dust. This is the only realized evaluated condition that his mind could know. He could never know the value of stone, for stone itself is an evolved state that cooled over a long period of time and has no status other than natural cooling.

If you ask the male why did you use stone pyramids built in a particular PHI related structure, and then build the Temples in a floor plan like a transmitter....both stone bodies? Because he was aware of the interactive atmospheric condition, he called science.

If you ask the male, how did you survive your science? Because he knew that the mass body surrounding him was natural and his mind knew by consideration that the interactive wave body was a different body interaction/reaction. Hence he considered his own person safe to do science.

If you ask the male, what happened to your life in the past? His feed back recorded past life awareness.....as an enmassed body attacked by irradiation and who died in the activated attack, are heard screaming and crying as they died falling into huge Earth holes. This is the idea given to his own mind about Hell, and the human being going to Hell, only because whenever he has applied occult practice, his own mind gets irradiated, his hearing of light sound changes due to nuclear condition and he then hears the feedback, just like I have.

Many other human beings have had the same experiences that I have, being irradiated, hearing the atmospheric light sound change into singing voice, to then hear speaking voice, to then hear anima voice as the photon recording interaction changes and the various bodies begin to communicate information as feedback in their natural destruction.

This is how our brother became self aware previously in his occult attack as self evidence that he had converted the naturally evolved cooled stone by alteration of the nuclear, due to his personal awareness of black body radiation.

As he was the human being who had previously activated the ancient attack, due to being the human presence on origin Earth as Atlantis (his own review of sAtanlit), he knows by self evidence of image and atmospheric feed back that he was the reason fusion was altered, not only on Earth, but also in the Universe.

He knows that he caused all the holes in the Universe when matter imploded, just as Earth demonstrates. The evidence being a release of perfectly round stone balls. He knows that he also caused holes to be bored into Planet Earth by removal of the cold pathways of the black body radiation's own cooling.

When our brother states that he will create, we all know he means...I will destroy. For he was never the Creator, he became the realized spiritual consciousness who caused creation....yet creation created itself. He knows that he already lives his mistake, as a manifested lower being...a human male.

A human cannot create energy, energy already exists created. When he thinks he will by want create...in fact his will is to destroy by want. If he states that he can only transform as an action of transformation ^ through destruction, then this is all that he knows. If he wants to destroy energy, then this imposes that he will heat black body radiation, and black body radiation is not instantaneous cold fusion.....it is also a cooled evolution.

Our occult brother has never been honest about his own awareness, the fact that he always considered his own person safe from his sciences, he builds buildings to impose that the building will keep the natural state safe from science, yet the natural state has always been attacked. Therefore when we review his mind, his mind has never evolved into a spiritual state, for it has remained in a destroyed mind ownership, he never learns from his mistakes yet teaches everyone else that they should learn for him. So he imposes by his own review that he is a light spirit, safe as the Creator, and we all are the human beings who keep making the mistakes and pay the price....yet so does he.

His own unrealistic mind considerations value that he believes that he can convert any state back into light, yet when you convert, the conversion only goes into a lower state. As the atmosphere has been activated into a conversion signal wavelength to convert natural fusion of stone, all of Nature is being attacked as the wavelength tries to convert our presence/spirit also in the interaction. The only reason we have survived his attacks is due to the fact that atmospheric mass surrounds us naturally and this condition he cannot factor for it evolved naturally and is not a wavelength, the condition he uses to factor.
 
... Everything (IMO) that is fascinating about consciousness studies points to nonlocal awareness and a host of intermeshing quantum mechanical behavioral attributes. What are the many veridically evidenced cases that support the essence of human awareness as being both locally and temporally non dependent on/within "objective reality", or what is the realm of strict materialism and physicalism, is nothing short of impressive ...
Maybe I just don't understand. Or then again, perhaps you're more easily impressed than I am. Not sure which. Maybe both ... LOL. Maybe you can help me distill this down into something sensible.

What is "non-local awareness" anyway? From what I can tell it might mean different things, e.g. OOBEs, remote viewing, or something else entirely different, like reality is itself transmitted into our "local awareness" from some remote server rather than us being located within it ourselves. What do we mean by "consciousness studies"? Do we mean neuroscience and its correlation to perceptual awareness? Or do we mean OOBEs, reincarnation, ghosts, and other paranormal experiences that have been assumed to be explained by some belief in afterlives, alternate dimensions or other nonsense? Or something else?


I've been following the consciousness thread for hundreds of pages and as of yet there is no clear-cut unambiguous definition of consciousness, let alone evidence that consciousness isn't a brain produced phenomenon. On the other hand, there is a mountain of correlative data from neuroscience that clearly demonstrates the links between the brain and consciousness in terms of our perceptual awareness, and from that evidence, very cohesive extrapolation regarding plausible explanations for unusual experiences like OOBEs.
 
I too believe @Soupie 's contributions to be extremely "on point" with respect to UFOs and the nature of material or physical reality.

*This absolutely echoes my suspicions as well. Maybe I'm wrong, but it justifiably seems like the purest of logic to me. Semantics can get us, as in anyone of us, in trouble. This is because frankly, as I myself am brought face to face with this concept routinely, we simply do not know the questions to ask let alone are we certain of the correct terminology that the questions consist of, and the answers contain. So we struggle and by the weight of our speculative struggles we hope for an accuracy of theoretical reconciliation. So it is.

Everything (IMO) that is fascinating about consciousness studies points to nonlocal awareness and a host of intermeshing quantum mechanical behavioral attributes. What are the many veridically evidenced cases that support the essence of human awareness as being both locally and temporally non dependent on/within "objective reality", or what is the realm of strict materialism and physicalism, is nothing short of impressive. It is my own opinion that consciousness is the nontemporal medium that hosts a neutrality, or pure potential, of information that our individual temporally relative cognitive awareness and influence acts upon, and subsequently remembers as experience. This is to say that I believe the human condition, while being both extremely special and precious, to be a temporal physical host to what is only be a very small part of a much larger energetic force. UFOs, or the energetic signatures responsible for them, most likely utilize this neutral informational potential much like we use the various physical informational derivations like air and water, to interface our indigenous experiential reality. Because of the fact that our own experiential reality is a cognitively relevant reflection of this same informational neutrality that they are traversing, we by virtue of natural cognitive process, at the behest of social influence, determine their transitory energetic signatures within the neutral informational realm of consciousness as appearing to be what we witness them as being.

I think you're right Burnt State, I think something independent of the witness, or witnesses, is externally stimulating their cognitive experience. I think the reason we see what we see is due to that something, by means of it's own volition is interacting with the informational realm of consciousness that human beings depend on to assemble the perceptive experiences that we call reality. Most likely, we really are witness to a nonhuman interaction within our immediate native environment. But with what exactly, I have no clue.

If you look closely at the myriad of anthropological developmental studies, as well as other culturally relevant religious beliefs and folkloric legends, one may take note of this same type of monotypical anomaly whereby single and multiply witnessed paranormal events have been documented to constitute large scale belief systems such as faerie folk. A similar typology of paranormal unfolding is that of the informational transmogrification anomaly that occurs amid the socially reinforced belief network of specific era and people relevant folklore called skinwalkers, trolls, werewolves, etc.

Atmospheric feed back due to an increased photon interaction causes human folk lore.

The folk lore has nothing to do with science, for the science of the occult has 2 conditions.

The first condition is the awareness to apply conversion of the nuclear.
The second is the cause and effect feed back after the conversion was applied.

This is how the lore of a mutated nature - animal and human change was advised, causing the lore to be told as a story.

The actual condition is caused by atmospheric feed back of the attacking condition that causes the nature and animals to be harmed, just like we are by the UFO artificial nuclear signals (nuclear orbital changes), the physical body of the nature gets attacked....the unnatural photon recording produces 2 forms of spirits.

The first is the natural photon record of the human being...the second is the natural photon record of the animal. The feed back allows the photon recordings to then relay the merging unnatural images, that get changed both as a natural human life, a natural animal life into a mutated moving spiritual presence as the atmospheric reaction of being attacked cools. The only reason it cools is due to ice melt.

The merging/cooling images then interact and move into each other, forming strange looking beasts/alien presences until they disappear into the removal of the imagery.

This information is why we realized by the lore that the life of the human being was being attacked by the irradiation and that the forming of the lore the advice was a strange looking beast....yet the beast was not what was attacking the life....the nuclear fall out due to the science or occult practice was attacking the life.

As our spirit consciousness is natural, only the occultists/shamans knew the conditions of the occult....whereas self realization as a natural living spiritual human being gave us other information, which the occultists then used as dis-information against the natural life, knowing that they had conjured/manifested the lore.

When we ask our own person what the feed back of the atmospheric imagery advises, the advice stated that the real evil is only the human male who can conjure by his occult practices. Yet when the male considers his own person he always knew that he was not the evil spirit, hence he knew he was an occultist.

When we advise our own person that our own consciousness and spiritual presence is used against us as a wisdom, we were advised that the humans who did so were occultists, which is why scientific conversion was considered to be an evil act against the natural life. We have never considered our own selves an evil spirit for we knew that conjuring formed the evil presence...which is why those that believed in unnatural conversion were considered to be Satanists, as the human beings who used and thought about atmospheric feed back as an applied science.
 
Maybe I just don't understand. Or then again, perhaps you're more easily impressed than I am. Not sure which. Maybe both ... LOL. Maybe you can help me distill this down into something sensible.

What is "non-local awareness" anyway? From what I can tell it might mean different things, e.g. OOBEs, remote viewing, or something else entirely different, like reality is itself transmitted into our "local awareness" from some remote server rather than us being located within it ourselves. What do we mean by "consciousness studies"? Do we mean neuroscience and its correlation to perceptual awareness? Or do we mean OOBEs, reincarnation, ghosts, and other paranormal experiences that have been assumed to be explained by some belief in afterlives, alternate dimensions or other nonsense? Or something else?


I've been following the consciousness thread for hundreds of pages and as of yet there is no clear-cut unambiguous definition of consciousness, let alone evidence that consciousness isn't a brain produced phenomenon. On the other hand, there is a mountain of correlative data from neuroscience that clearly demonstrates the links between the brain and consciousness in terms of our perceptual awareness, and from that evidence, very cohesive extrapolation regarding plausible explanations for unusual experiences like OOBEs.


Why don't you ask a simple question....why do you want to know what consciousness is.....when you are living the experience?

Only occultists want to know the conscious concept for in their personal want, they want to own consciousness as a consideration that consciousness exists outside of our own presence as another form....a form they consider is Creator. They want/believe that if they get Creator then they will create.

Yet this concept is their own person, they already own the Creator self, as a human organic life and hence if they want the Creator to be outside of their own presence, the situation explains itself.

If you place a huge photon fall out interaction condition with your natural life...your natural cell life/brain/mind then gets attacked. In this process a huge amount of photon recordings begin to amass, as you lose your own healthy life and mind into a mutation. The Creator being placed and considered outside of your own person, is simply the destruction of your own presence, to cause a fake/feed back consideration of a Creator. We have always known and already advised our own persons that this consideration is fake, is an evil act, an evil cause and hence modern day occultists ought to consider their own personal destruction instead of believing that Satan created them or that Satan is Jesus Christ.

When you review occult consideration, the consideration was only to value natural interactions so that they could access the power of the nuclear. This consideration of information was not done for the benefit of humanity or was it ever needed for humanity. Humanity already naturally existed in the holy condition of their own presence, with the support of Nature and the holy atmospheric condition.

The occultist changed the holiness of the atmosphere by considering value then imposing those values upon us as if it is relevant to our life, when in fact it is only scientific occult feed back and a placed indoctrination of our living experience.

We already know and have known this realization which is why we had to use their occult information to teach us the true story of our spiritual existence, to try to save us all from their deceit. Their own deceit is a motivation of personal want....to want to have ownership of everything by value. Therefore if an organic life form wants to have personal ownership of the nuclear, this is actually what is happening to us all, and it is why we are being attacked/mutated/sick and being destroyed.

Whilst the natural spiritual being does not want to be nuclear, our occult brother/sister who want the lifestyle that the occult has given them as a status of ownership are still trying by their personal wants to destroy us all.
 
We're still just perceiving pictures in our head ( or other sensory interpretations ).
We have to be careful with our language or else we fall into the Cartesian Theatre. The idea that "we" are a little man sitting inside our brain watching (perceiving) pictures on a movie screen.

We perceive external reality, not pictures in our head. However we mustn't confuse our perceptions for external reality.

However, it's hard to say much more than that without moving into the realm of theory and speculation.

I've been following the consciousness thread for hundreds of pages and as of yet there is no clear-cut unambiguous definition of consciousness, let alone evidence that consciousness isn't a brain produced phenomenon. On the other hand, there is a mountain of correlative data from neuroscience that clearly demonstrates the links between the brain and consciousness in terms of our perceptual awareness, and from that evidence, very cohesive extrapolation regarding plausible explanations for unusual experiences like OOBEs.
And yet there is no theoretical nor empirical evidence that consciousness is a brain-produced phenomenon.

I'll grant you that strong correlations between the brain and consciousness have been established. However there are exactly zero theoretical or empirical models of how physical processes in the brain might produce consciousness.

And as noted above, though a correlation between the brain and consciousness can be established, we must take into account that our perception of the brain and its processes can only be known through consciousness!

We can't get behind consciousness.

Thus the process/structure that we perceive when interacting with a brain is only a human species-specific perception that does not fully capture the corresponding process/structure existing in objective reality.
 
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1.) Maybe I just don't understand. Or then again, perhaps you're more easily impressed than I am. Not sure which. Maybe both ... LOL. Maybe you can help me distill this down into something sensible.

2.) What is "non-local awareness" anyway? From what I can tell it might mean different things, e.g. OOBEs, remote viewing, or something else entirely different, like reality is itself transmitted into our "local awareness" from some remote server rather than us being located within it ourselves. 3.) What do we mean by "consciousness studies"? Do we mean neuroscience and its correlation to perceptual awareness? Or do we mean OOBEs, reincarnation, ghosts, and other paranormal experiences that have been assumed to be explained by some belief in afterlives, alternate dimensions or other nonsense? Or something else?


4.) I've been following the consciousness thread for hundreds of pages and as of yet there is no clear-cut unambiguous definition of consciousness, let alone evidence that consciousness isn't a brain produced phenomenon. On the other hand, there is a mountain of correlative data from neuroscience that clearly demonstrates the links between the brain and consciousness in terms of our perceptual awareness, and from that evidence, very cohesive extrapolation regarding plausible explanations for unusual experiences like OOBEs.

1.) Some things cannot honestly be understood simply because we want to understand them. When we hear the familiar summing or euphemism, post reflection, "truth is stranger than fiction" this is because most truths are not born of familiarity, nor are they found on a map whose legend has been established based on a former line of reasoning or knowledge. Indeed, the greatest paradigms are most often those that establish new and unforeseen models. I think the words of one of the greatest scientists that ever lived sum it best: Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realizes that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: 'Ye must have faith. It is a quality which the scientist cannot dispense with. Max Planck

2.) nonlocal awareness is that which informs cognition apart from the physical body. Information that the physical body itself does not act upon directly. The most critical aspect of awareness is influence. When the double slit experiment is performed we are able to repeatedly observe the nonlocal nature of our influential awareness.

3.) Consciousness studies are myriad and quite formal. If one googles the phrase you'll be inundated by them. Some parallel ongoing neuroscience directly, and base their theories on neuroscientifically achieved evidence. However what has been most revealing are studies that clearly indicate an astonishing absence of physical brain activity while lucid consciousness is actively taking place.

4.) When one has an appetite for a premium steak dinner, as a rule of thumb one shouldn't get their hopes too far up knowing they're are at a Chinese buffet. The food where you're at may be truly excellent, even exceptional, but it will not likely satisfy your ravenous and particular predisposition. The evidence for most all matters paranormal can at this time only be fully appreciated and best speculatively summed by those with an established predisposition for their own anomalistic particularity. No sense in demeaning or demanding with respect to other people's paranormal predispositions. All evidence for the paranormal as a whole at this time is truly supportive at best, and of course this includes the slice of paranormal pie that is UFOs. Right now the best any of us can hope for is the forwarding scientific momentum that the weight of supporting veridical evidence serves to motivate and achieve.

A few relative links.

Interview with Russell Targ | Taking Charge of Your Health & Wellbeing

Coma: Detecting signs of consciousness in severely brain injured patients recovering from coma | International Encyclopedia of Rehabilitation

Why Consciousness is Not the Brain | SuperConsciousness Magazine

'Consciousness connections' revealed in coma brains
 
We have to be careful with our language or else we fall into the Cartesian Theatre. The idea that "we" are a little man sitting inside our brain watching (perceiving) pictures on a movie screen.
We can recognize that there are pictures in our heads without resorting to a Cartesian theatre model. Although at the same time, I would say that the Cartesian Theatre model isn't totally inaccurate. Stimuli are received by our sensory inputs and processed by our brain's corresponding processing regions in a way that is experienced as imagery, sounds, etc. This not hypothetical. The problem with the Cartesian Theatre model is that the experiencer of the imagery, sound, etc. is portrayed as another entirely separate internal processing unit that is watching a miniature display upon which the outside world is being monitored.

Obviously there's no little person inside one's head who watches display panels, or photographic prints or films. The pictures in our heads are mental constructs. But at the same time, they are not in and of themselves consciousness because the experience of seeing those constructs is something separate from the perceptions themselves. That is why we can be aware that we're not perceiving certain stimuli and why we have reactions to such stimuli that are separate from them. So there may not be a homunculus, but there is an experiencer, and consciousness is what is going on when the experiencer, is experiencing.

We perceive external reality, not pictures in our head. However we mustn't confuse our perceptions for external reality.
We may be in a bit of a word tangle there. I take it that when you say we perceive, it means we are experiencing, and that what we are experiencing are perceptions, which are mental constructs. So the perceiving is taking place on a different level than the perceptions. Therefore what we are perceiving are mental constructs, or "pictures in our heads", not external reality.
However, it's hard to say much more than that without moving into the realm of theory and speculation. And yet there is no theoretical nor empirical evidence that consciousness is a brain-produced phenomenon.
That depends on what you call evidence. If you choose to reject the massive amount of neuroscience that correlates consciousness directly with brain function, then I guess there's no evidence. That also would IMO amount to a state of denial.
I'll grant you that strong correlations between the brain and consciousness have been established. However there are exactly zero theoretical or empirical models of how physical processes in the brain might produce consciousness.[/quote]
That's 180 degrees from your first statement. Just because we don't yet know how the brain does everything doesn't give us sufficient reason to think that it doesn't. If that sort of thinking had prevailed when brains were discovered, we'd have assumed that brains are useless organs like tonsils ( or whatever ) and discovered nothing more about them. Besides that, some have suggested the idea of a physical field, analogous to a magnetic field that we might call a consciousness field, and that constitutes a "theoretical model" based on the physical ( not to be confused with simply being material ).
And as noted above, though a correlation between the brain and consciousness can be established, we must take into account that our perception of the brain and its processes can only be known through consciousness! We can't get behind consciousness. Thus the process/structure that we perceive when interacting with a brain is only a human species-specific perception that does not fully capture the corresponding process/structure existing in objective reality.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, which is why we don't perceive external reality, we perceive ( experience ) perceptions ( mental constructs ) about it.
 
1.) Some things cannot honestly be understood simply because we want to understand them. When we hear the familiar summing or euphemism, post reflection, "truth is stranger than fiction" this is because most truths are not born of familiarity, nor are they found on a map whose legend has been established based on a former line of reasoning or knowledge. Indeed, the greatest paradigms are most often those that establish new and unforeseen models. I think the words of one of the greatest scientists that ever lived sum it best: Anybody who has been seriously engaged in scientific work of any kind realizes that over the entrance to the gates of the temple of science are written the words: 'Ye must have faith. It is a quality which the scientist cannot dispense with. Max Planck
He also said, "Both religion and science require a belief in God." So maybe not everything he said should be taken as the gospel truth.
2.) nonlocal awareness is that which informs cognition apart from the physical body. Information that the physical body itself does not act upon directly. The most critical aspect of awareness is influence. When the double slit experiment is performed we are able to repeatedly observe the nonlocal nature of our influential awareness.
That seems rather vague. How so exactly? So far as I can tell, "influential awareness" has nothing to do with the outcome of the double slit experiment. In other words, if you're going to suggest that it's our conscious observation that changes the outcome of the double slit experiment, then you've fallen into the quicksand of quantum woo.
3.) Consciousness studies are myriad and quite formal. If one googles the phrase you'll be inundated by them. Some parallel ongoing neuroscience directly, and base their theories on neuroscientifically achieved evidence. However what has been most revealing are studies that clearly indicate an astonishing absence of physical brain activity while lucid consciousness is actively taking place.
I have seen zero verifiable case studies that would lend credence to that statement, and trust me, I've looked and looked, and looked. I've only seen after-the-fact reports from people who claim to have had such experiences. If you have found something better, by all means, I'd be interested in checking it out. Please post a link.
4.) When one has an appetite for a premium steak dinner, as a rule of thumb one shouldn't get their hopes too far up knowing they're are at a Chinese buffet. The food where you're at may be truly excellent, even exceptional, but it will not likely satisfy your ravenous and particular predisposition. The evidence for most all matters paranormal can at this time only be fully appreciated and best speculatively summed by those with an established predisposition for their own anomalistic particularity. No sense in demeaning or demanding with respect to other people's paranormal predispositions. All evidence for the paranormal as a whole at this time is truly supportive at best, and of course this includes the slice of paranormal pie that is UFOs. Right now the best any of us can hope for is the forwarding scientific momentum that the weight of supporting veridical evidence serves to motivate and achieve.
No demeaning going on here. Although at times I would say that it might be justifiable, particularly in the context of comedic humor. For example I think Carlin does a great job in his religion routine, and the odd zing in the spirit of making a point is fair game. So long as it's not mean spirited is where I draw the line. I think you consistently make very good points, enjoy reading your posts :)
A few relative links.
OK let's have a look ...
Sounds mostly like quantum flapdoodle to me. Even if there is something to remote viewing, from a physics perspective, it's still a very far reaching assumption to attribute it to quantum entanglement. And even if quantum entanglement is involved it would have to involve quantum teleportation, in which case we're just talking about another form of information transfer between transceivers, which is not the same as "non-local consciousness". It's more like long range perception, or in the case of seeing what somebody else sees, some kind of telepathy ( as if those aren't also highly contentious in their own right ).
A very good article. Notice how it focuses on brain function, it's correlation to consciousness, how brain death and coma are differentiated, and how misdiagnosis can happen.
That depends on how you look at it? Consider this analogy: Is the magnetism in an electromagnet the same as the windings, core, and electricity? No. Is it part of the magnet? Yes. Is the magnetism dependent on the other physical components of the magnet? Yes. So it's not just as simple as saying, "The brain isn't consciousness". That's like saying, "The magnet isn't magnetism". So what? No magnet still means no magnetism, and with respect to consciousness, the massive amount of really good evidence indicates that a brain is required in order for consciousness to manifest. Where's the evidence for it being otherwise? There isn't any. In the entire history of the human race, out of billions and billions of people, there are zero verifiable cases of anyone, without a brain, demonstrating any level of consciousness.
This is backwards from your claim above. It shows that physical brain activity is going on even when patients show little or no outward signs of consciousness.
 
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We may be in a bit of a word tangle there. I take it that when you say we perceive, it means we are experiencing, and that what we are experiencing are perceptions, which are mental constructs. So the perceiving is taking place on a different level than the perceptions. Therefore what we are perceiving are mental constructs, or "pictures in our heads", not external reality.
Okay, I think I follow you here. But this gets us into the territory of conscious perceptions versus unconscious perceptions. It's always important to qualify terms of course.

Typically, if something is perceived it's understood to be consciously perceived. But technically as in the case of blindsight, one could argue that the organism can perceive the world unconsciously. (Blindsight is a phenomenon where someone can't consciously perceive an object but they can tell you where it is located in space, say.)

Anyhow, this may help explain my position. I say the following:

(1) Electromagnetic wave X stimulates the nervous system of (2) organism, (3) organism perceives the color blue.

You seem to be saying:

(1) EM wave X stimulates the NS of (2) organism, (3) organism produces a perception blue, (4) an experiencer inside the organism perceives the perception blue.

That depends on what you call evidence. If you choose to reject the massive amount of neuroscience that correlates consciousness directly with brain function, then I guess there's no evidence. That also would IMO amount to a state of denial.
Which specific brain function(s) is consciousness correlated to? Anything specific you can point to?
 
We have to be careful with our language or else we fall into the Cartesian Theatre. The idea that "we" are a little man sitting inside our brain watching (perceiving) pictures on a movie screen.

We perceive external reality, not pictures in our head. However we mustn't confuse our perceptions for external reality.

However, it's hard to say much more than that without moving into the realm of theory and speculation.


And yet there is no theoretical nor empirical evidence that consciousness is a brain-produced phenomenon.

I'll grant you that strong correlations between the brain and consciousness have been established. However there are exactly zero theoretical or empirical models of how physical processes in the brain might produce consciousness.

And as noted above, though a correlation between the brain and consciousness can be established, we must take into account that our perception of the brain and its processes can only be known through consciousness!

We can't get behind consciousness.

Thus the process/structure that we perceive when interacting with a brain is only a human species-specific perception that does not fully capture the corresponding process/structure existing in objective reality.


When you live consciously, living spiritually without wanting to harm others, life, animals, Earth for want or greed, then you evolve by the natural spiritual conditions that you cause.

First of all is to own DNA.....an already mutative state due to atmospheric radiation. This situation itself enables each human's unique experience to differ in fed back advised atmospheric interaction.....feed back by atmospheric photon recording of voice/image.

We know animals do not speak, yet when feed back of increased photon fall out, suddenly an anima imaged spirit speaks back, demonstrating that this voiced condition is formed by atmospheric destruction.

As a conscious spiritual aware attacked human mind/brain, behind me exists what I know was a huge/large presence that through my own brain mind, allowed me to see visions as a huge large presence....demonstrating to my own person that a large/huge entity exists before me to allow me this vision.

As a human being who has experienced all forms of psyche and spiritual manifestations, human experiences of my family, their spiritual aware states, my own contact with an androgynous presence, that I eventually came to know was my Mother spirit, I know by PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, being the only state that a human being knows, that the androgynous origin spirit is real.....communicating before all of creation as a Father and Mother origin spirit self, who manifested world wide as separate human lives.

That their manifested DNA bodies are slightly different in the manifestation due to magnetic differences....that since the human male mind was irradiated, our Father self communicates to our minds in a multi expressed male condition, which I also experienced after I was irradiated.

As I have had the spiritual experience personally no matter what some scientific propagandist states as an occultist, you are all wrong.
 
Sort of. More like this:
  1. Stimuli are transformed by physical sensory input mechanisms ( eyes, ears, etc ) into nerve impulses.
  2. Those nerve impulses connect to sensory processing centers within the brain.
  3. Those sensory processing centers are connected to signal filtering, routing, and processing mechanisms in the brain associated with memory and consciousness itself ( e.g. the Thalamocortical loop ).
  4. In some cases perceptions are stored into memory rather than consciously experienced.
  5. Consequently there is a differentiation between perception and perceiver.
This in no way means there is a little homunculus inside our heads, but there are physical mechanisms that in the opinion of more than one neuroscientist I've watched ( and I agree with them ), give rise to experience, which is for all intent and purpose synonymous with consciousness ( our experience of what it's like to exist ). Exactly what that experience is composed of in physical terms is unknown. It has been proposed that it's some sort of field generated by the brain, which I tend to gravitate toward.


One of the videos I posted back in the consciousness thread had a guy talking about it and he included a visual map of the specific areas directly correlated to conscious experience. Interestingly, theses areas were not confined to a single place in the brain. I've been scouring the threads trying to find the video, but haven't been able to locate it ( yet ). There are other videos out there by neuroscientists that are long winded and boring that also deal with the neural correlates for consciousness, but I don't want to put you through all that.

Why?

What is to know about consciousness, other than each human is born by sexual procreation.

We are taught what our family wants to teach us, and then what the community wants to teach us.

We also have personal experience.

We are mutated, all of nature is, and we were evolving.....and are now de-evolving as a cell and mind state due to irradiation increase since ancient times.

An occult scientist who wants Creator, thought about by his own person as being the Creator/Inventor wants by his own specific reasoning to have the Creator.....you already have yourself.

We ask the occultist the correct question....why do you want Creator?

I want to create he says.

We ask the occultist what do you want to create?

I want my own person as spiritual information to be Jesus Christ and also God. This consideration is because I believe that the spirit presence of both exist as huge powers in the heavenly atmosphere and I want to now resource these spirit powers, for I no longer have the physical resources for my inventing.

Where did these concepts originally come from, occultist?

From my own conscious awareness, when I decided that I personally wanted to be the Creator/Inventor.

Yet occultist, when you wanted to be the Creator, were you actually the Creator?

No, because I cannot exist before my own person existed. The atmosphere, the concept of my review existed before my own presence did.....as does the animal kingdom before my own person exists. Therefore I personally cannot represent these spirits.

Why then occultist do you constantly lie to the community and your own person about your studies of the human mind/ cell state and concepts that only a human being owns in person. When this person is only a conceived owned life as a personal ownership and not a common denominator (owned by everyone).....you murder anyone who has ever attempted to persuade your person that you are wrong....and yet the only reason that another human attempted to advise you that you are wrong, is because as you they lived as a human being harmed.

Isn't it logical that a human aware of humanity being harmed would challenge you?

Don't you yourself believe yourself occultist to be a human?

The occultist replies...no actually I do not believe that I am a human, I actually believe that I am an alien.

Therefore the practices and awareness of occultism speaks for itself....the scientists of today as occultists studied the concepts of consciousness and spirit and do actually believe that they are aliens.
 
Okay, I think I follow you here. But this gets us into the territory of conscious perceptions versus unconscious perceptions. It's always important to qualify terms of course.

Typically, if something is perceived it's understood to be consciously perceived. But technically as in the case of blindsight, one could argue that the organism can perceive the world unconsciously. (Blindsight is a phenomenon where someone can't consciously perceive an object but they can tell you where it is located in space, say.)

Anyhow, this may help explain my position. I say the following:

(1) Electromagnetic wave X stimulates the nervous system of (2) organism, (3) organism perceives the color blue.

You seem to be saying:

(1) EM wave X stimulates the NS of (2) organism, (3) organism produces a perception blue, (4) an experiencer inside the organism perceives the perception blue.
Sort of. More like this:
  1. Stimuli are transformed by physical sensory input mechanisms ( eyes, ears, etc ) into nerve impulses.
  2. Those nerve impulses connect to sensory processing centers within the brain.
  3. Those sensory processing centers are connected to signal filtering, routing, and processing mechanisms in the brain associated with memory and consciousness itself ( e.g. the Thalamocortical loop ).
  4. In some cases perceptions are stored into memory rather than consciously experienced.
  5. Consequently there is a differentiation between perception and perceiver.
This in no way means there is a little homunculus inside our heads, but there are physical mechanisms that in the opinion of more than one neuroscientist I've watched ( and I agree with them ), give rise to experience, which is for all intent and purpose synonymous with consciousness ( our experience of what it's like to exist ). Exactly what that experience is composed of in physical terms is unknown. It has been proposed that it's some sort of field generated by the brain, which I tend to gravitate toward.

Which specific brain function(s) is consciousness correlated to? Anything specific you can point to?
There's lots out there but this video at around 7:50 includes a basic
visual map of locations in the brain associated with awareness:


This one draws clear inferences as well

 
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