The Undeniable Link Between UFOs & Consciousness...Imagine that!

[Red]

I also am a huge fan of Jaynes. What Jaynes purposes makes total sense with respect to the bicameral mind. He was an absolute genius. His proposition serves the interface theory's evolutionary development with great detail. There is no question in my mind whatsoever that we are the closed loop of perceptive feedback that we have specifically come to be as a result of our native interface's development within the pre and post temporal informational environment of consciousness. In this view, consciousness is the environment of possibilities in which cognitive volition mutates specifically according to a natural selection process across the span of a single life. It follows the exact same principles as does the propagation of biological life forms within what is the natural selection process. Instead of the physical animal adapting, improvising and overcoming that which is physically life threatening in a given physically relevant environmental consideration, cognition mutates, maps, and overcomes at the behest of what are threats to it's energetic efficiency. How could it be any different with respect to a sentient bioelectric organism? Thank you so much for your input here, it is most welcome.

Thank you very much. Jaynes has gotten me thinking about the idea that consciousness may not only be a fairly new phenomenon on this planet, but in the universe at large. If it is, then what does that mean for the interactions and the strange things that people continue to report up to the present time?

 

[Jeff Davis]

There's ambiguity above in that a primary synonym for sentience is "awareness" and a primary synonym for "awareness" is "consciousness". Therefore in the context where we speak of consciousness not merely as being awake ( as in he or she regained consciousness ), but as a state of self awareness ( what it's like to be alive ), sentience and consciousness can be taken to mean the same thing, and therefore sentience, if it could somehow be measured objectively, would be a definitive indicator of consciousness.

Introspection would also seem to be an ability for a sentient being. So I think that we should move sentience to the other side of the list. Aside from that, the point that introspection is an indicator of consciousness seems reasonable enough. But how would we differentiate that from something like an intelligent self-diagnostic? The "mind-space" you mentioned is IMO the key feature. However because that appears to be synonymous with consciousness, it doesn't carry much explanatory weight. When looking at the problem of consciousness it always distills down to this situation, which is why consciousness has been referred to as something fundamental.

Thanks for the tip on the book though. If that's one of those big Jayne's books, it's probably very good. I have one on aircraft.

There is ambiguity in literally everything, without it there would be no higher stakes, no greatest of gains, and ultimately no truth at all. Conscious awareness, or consciously, is not the same thing as is the noun consciousness. Not in the least. When one states that someone has regained consciousness it is not a reference to the present, but rather a adjective description related appropriately as a past tense status of waking awareness, or cognizance. Sentience does not equate to the introspective or self aware process as a whole. That is a very small part of what is sentience. Sentience is an endlessly progressive path on which the doorway to spirituality is ultimately founded. It benefits no more good to make a mountain out of a mole hill than it does to make a mole hill out of a mountain. Such is the all too real flawed perspective of reductionism. Some things are simply beyond quantification and this is precisely the bridge that science has been attempting to cross for the last 150 years. An understanding and full awareness of some things can only be rendered as experience and that's precisely why extremely advanced memory systems like photonic water and crystal storage are such hot topics of discussion with respect to AI.

 

[marduk]

There is ambiguity in literally everything, without it there would be no higher stakes, no greatest of gains, and ultimately no truth at all. Conscious awareness, or consciously, is not the same thing as is the noun consciousness. Not in the least. When one states that someone has regained consciousness it is not a reference to the present, but rather a adjective description related appropriately as a past tense status of waking awareness, or cognizance. Sentience does not equate to the introspective or self aware process as a whole. That is a very small part of what is sentience. Sentience is an endlessly progressive path on which the doorway to spirituality is ultimately founded. It benefits no more good to make a mountain out of a mole hill than it does to make a mole hill out of a mountain. Such is the all too real flawed perspective of reductionism. Some things are simply beyond quantification and this is precisely the bridge that science has been attempting to cross for the last 150 years. An understanding and full awareness of some things can only be rendered as experience and that's precisely why extremely advanced memory systems like photonic water and crystal storage are such hot topics of discussion with respect to AI.

The point I think he was trying to make is that all the philosophical hand wringing in the world is just rearranging the deck chairs on a cruise to nowhere.

My non sequitur comment wasn't just sarcasm.

Your statements are literally uncoordinated.

 

[Red]

Jeff is spot on about consciousness being a very small part of sentience and Jaynes says that we are probably not conscious all of the time, but our brains provide a continuity for us, as though we were.

To paraphrase an example used by Jaynes, I am sitting in my chair at home, typing these words. I am not really conscious of where I am, although my sensory perceptions tell me I am home, in my chair. I don't need consciousness to know my location, or to shift if my back starts to ache, or even to type. I am only conscious of the words that I am typing in order to communicate a larger idea.

 

[victimized]

Not true, as occultists are aware.

The archaeological evidence of intelligent human life pre exists millions of years of evolution.

The evidence relates to the conditions of scientific awareness, when organic life did not exist when photons were created, or when nuclear dust was formed. How could a human life understand these concepts, when the organic body did not exist?

In modern occult practices, no sink holes apparent with nuclear fuel as an applied change to natural atmospheric massing. They then apply conditions that relate to "levitation" signals (old biblical science references) and the calculus and holes appear in Earth from new scientific experiments. These experiments also relate to the studies of the pyramids/temples/biblical information and also shamanic drugs. The review also relates to human studies of the phenomena and the UFO condition, drugs and chemicals and the human brain, and human experiments with mental health as data gathering for an application for new resourcing. Holes then appeared in Earth due to changing the conditions of resourcing.

The archaeological evidence of holes pre existing an intelligent human life previously destroyed and a different Nature on Earth...no ice, artifacts found deep inside of Earth inside of fused stone and also coal beds. The review would state with UFO artifacts belonging to the cause and effect of ancient human sciences...metallic objects from the UFO manifestations caused the attack to stone...opening holes where the civilizations fell in. To have applied these types of sciences, the atmosphere not a frozen state would have had to have been massive to support a life of a tropical nature.

The awareness of conscious advice "hearing of the screaming voices of past human life", recorded in the atmospheric fed back advice as the feed back awareness is gained as self evidence in the interactive conditions of atmospheric burning (burning nuclear fuel), plus new experiments.
Soviet Scientists drilled into hell-Fiction! As holes did open in an ancient past life that applied nuclear sciences, the recordings heard are factual evidence of past lived experience.

The Shaman always believed that his own spirit was an animal....and why is it that modern sciences agreed with this review, when the evidence states, DNA = the actual body of each species, and the species only continues by sexual procreation. If the species simply aged and died, then no species would continue. The Shaman by evidence was the new inventor of science in a regain of the conscious condition.

As the photon relates to a condition that interacts with everything, including the stone of Earth, it allowed the wisdom of fed back imagery, recordings and advice for scientific interactive awareness. Yet not one of the reviewed bodies "owns" the photon...we all exist in the same moment with the photon allowing feed back of atmospheric recording of image/voice/sound. Information is therefore given to us.

Therefore each body owns its species and the species recorded exists in 2 circumstances....its Nature or spirit and also the feed back.

As the feed back is not the only communication as advice, for feed back does not relate to the conditions of organic presence, as no recording is the state of the presence and total awareness, for feed back is not organic.

This is why the ancient awareness of human life called life spirit, knew by communicative awareness what spirit meant, and also advised itself by evaluated conditions of naming objects and then describing the objects that it owned by presence a higher status of awareness. The process of naming and valuing was then taught.

Experience of the self is another life circumstance that allows information to be formed in the interactive presence. A human being given the ability to evaluate images was also taught about spirit. The experience of spirit was not simply an evaluated review of feed back, it also belonged to the conditions of "manifestation", witness of the manifestation and also interaction with the manifestation of deceased animals and also friends and family.

Information states as a circumstance of expression that it has to exist for the information to be expressed in the interactive conditions.

When you ask yourself the question as to why consciousness has been so heavily studied and discussed on a large modern forum community, it is because the occultist who considers that they can understand consciousness, the creator/inventor self, could then emulate the conditions of the natural state, natural DNA and cause a model of artificial interactive atmospheric communication for a new resourcing of the atmospheric cold body like the organic DNA does. But as DNA is organic, DNA cannot be artificial and it is why we are being attacked.

This is why they believe that aliens are the creator body through the UFO condition as the aspect of the God consciousness.

Yet the conditions of consciousness relates to a reviewed condition that we belong to the life in a blue atmosphere...with no image or conversion fed back advice.

The image formed by a condition of atmospheric conversion in cloud formation, as the aspect that they claim is God the creator/inventor or conscious aware status for science as a spirit presence. Yet life is not science, life is natural, organic and not an alien or a conversion, or an interactive state.....we simply exist naturally. The concept of creator, given to the human mind who wanted science as a fed back advice with "imagery" giving the impression of another being. The first advice for science as fed back advice because of cloud formation and image gain.

If you want to investigate the conditions for an ancient review of God as consciousness and the Christ as consciousness, this review was a fed back condition after being irradiated and gaining stigmata due to applied occult ancient sciences, as a blood leeching unnaturally from the cells, along with the activation of natural disasters, due to the ancient occult practices. The review of the sciences of the ancients far preceeds 2000 BCE, for it has been an interactive cause and effect feed back advice, when the atmosphere changes and re masses/cools and evolution as a status predicts the awareness of the mind.

The snap ice freeze demonstrates this condition is real, for the cooling not only changed the DNA and allowed it to evolve back into its intelligence (allowing it to be scientific aware) after it was mutated, the snap freeze itself demonstrates that previously the atmospheric mass must have been far greater than what it is today, in the modern gain of intelligence. Now as we witness atmospheric mass loss, so we witness the loss of intelligence and morality and the large amount of human mutative genetic advice.

 

[Jeff Davis]

The point I think he was trying to make is that all the philosophical hand wringing in the world is just rearranging the deck chairs on a cruise to nowhere.

My non sequitur comment wasn't just sarcasm.

Your statements are literally uncoordinated.

Please feel free to elucidate in anyway you deem constructive.

 

[marduk]

Please feel free to elucidate in anyway you deem constructive.

Sentience is an endlessly progressive path on which the doorway to spirituality is ultimately founded. It benefits no more good to make a mountain out of a mole hill than it does to make a mole hill out of a mountain. Such is the all too real flawed perspective of reductionism. Some things are simply beyond quantification and this is precisely the bridge that science has been attempting to cross for the last 150 years. Anunderstanding and full awareness of some things can only be rendered as experience and that'sprecisely why extremely advanced memory systems like photonic water and crystal storageare such hot topics of discussion...

This literally makes no sense.

You're putting words together claiming it provides a cohesive train of thought, but it doesn't.

One idea does not lead to the next.

I have no idea what you're trying to say, except that reductionism is broken? Because photonic water, which isn't actually a thing?

 

[Jeff Davis]

This literally makes no sense.

You're putting words together claiming it provides a cohesive train of thought, but it doesn't.

One idea does not lead to the next.

I have no idea what you're trying to say, except that reductionism is broken? Because photonic water, which isn't actually a thing?

Sad. So it's your contention marduk, that because you do not understand the language or contextual relevance for describing or referencing something, that you yourself presently have no understanding or awareness of, that those statements in and of themselves are "uncoordinated" and lacking in "cohesiveness", is that correct? What you're really doing here is simply pleading ignorance, and not very graciously at that, I might add. Where is your curious thirst for knowledge?

Let's look at this for a moment. This is what I wrote: "An understanding and full awareness of some things can only be rendered as experience and that's precisely why extremely advanced memory systems like [photonic water and crystal storage] are such hot topics of discussion with respect to AI."

It's not my intention to insult you, but why in the name of clarity would you pluck two consecutive words from a single sentence that I wrote, and then expect those two words apart from their original context to represent the totality of a valid idea, or train of thought? That's purely mind boggling.

I am not teaching, or participating in a college course here. This is a forum that centers itself on the paranormal. I admit I was typing fast, not exactly putting my everything into preparing a thesis, but it's very clear that I was referring to the laser light (photonic) read and transferred informational storage within the mediums of water and/or crystal. This is merely a simple forum upon which good vibes are a key ingredient with respect to the motivational forwarding of topic relevant speculations within the context of topic specific conversation. It's hard to stay on track with this "good attitude and vibe" approach in mind when your ideas are being accosted by those who falsely accuse you of clumsy or ill coordinated written expressions of those ideas. Please stop. I've noticed this about you in the past. You have a tendency to believe that you know all there is to know based on the closed loop of your own present understanding. That's a very limiting perspective, and renders little more than snap judgments fueled not so much by ignorance, but possibly, a real lack of patience. Next time, please just ask simple polite questions rather than going out of your way to hunt for a witch.

Are you at all familiar with quantum computing, it's theoretical design, or AI? Whether you or not, I'm certain you'll find it thoroughly fascinating, and the manner it analogously parallels theoretical consciousness studies is revealing to say the least.

If you would like to better understand where I'm coming from within the conversation's context, you may begin by reading here: https://www.ganino.com/games/Science/science magazine 1989-1990/root/data/Science 1989-1990/pdf/1989_v246_n4937/p4937_1585.pdf

here: Quantum information transfer using photons : Nature Photonics : Nature Research

here: Water can store and transfer information, say scientists

here: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/09/light-based-memory-chip-first-permanently-store-data

and here:http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v469/n7331/full/nature09662.html

 

[marduk]

Sad. So it's your contention marduk, that because you do not understand the language or contextual relevance for describing or referencing something, that you yourself presently have no understanding or awareness of, that those statements in and of themselves are "uncoordinated" and lacking in "cohesiveness", is that correct? What you're really doing here is simply pleading ignorance, and not very graciously at that, I might add. Where is your curious thirst for knowledge?

What I'm saying is that a valid arguement for doing away with reductionism (or materialism) isn't photonic water, because those two things aren't related, and photonic water isn't a thing.

Let's look at this for a moment. This is what I wrote: "An understanding and full awareness of some things can only be rendered as experience and that's precisely why extremely advanced memory systems like [photonic water and crystal storage] are such hot topics of discussion with respect to AI."

Maybe you're confusing photonic water and crystal storage with Photonic MEMS devices, that use water?

It's not my intention to insult you, but why in the name of clarity would you pluck two consecutive words from a single sentence that I wrote, and then expect those two words apart from their original context to represent the totality of a valid idea, or train of thought? That's purely mind boggling.

What I would request is that semantic reasoning take place in a debate. If you assert something, help us understand why you assert it.

I am not teaching, or participating in a college course here. This is a forum that centers itself on the paranormal. I admit I was typing fast, not exactly putting my everything into preparing a thesis, but it's very clear that I was referring to the laser light (photonic) read and transferred informational storage within the mediums of water and/or crystal. This is merely a simple forum upon which good vibes are a key ingredient with respect to the motivational forwarding of topic relevant speculations within the context of topic specific conversation. It's hard to stay on track with this "good attitude and vibe" approach in mind when your ideas are being accosted by those who falsely accuse you of clumsy or ill coordinated written expressions of those ideas. Please stop. I've noticed this about you in the past. You have a tendency to believe that you know all there is to know based on the closed loop of your own present understanding. That's a very limiting perspective, and renders little more than snap judgments fueled not so much by ignorance, but possibly, a real lack of patience. Next time, please just ask simple polite questions rather than going out of your way to hunt for a witch.

OK, here's a polite simple question: reductionism doesn't work because what?

I think it has it's limitations. I think those limitations may lead to understanding of this field. Without having to excise my neocortex to do it.

Are you at all familiar with quantum computing, it's theoretical design, or AI? Whether you or not, I'm certain you'll find it thoroughly fascinating, and the manner it analogously parallels theoretical consciousness studies is revealing to say the least.

If you would like to better understand where I'm coming from within the conversation's context, you may begin by reading here: https://www.ganino.com/games/Science/science magazine 1989-1990/root/data/Science 1989-1990/pdf/1989_v246_n4937/p4937_1585.pdf

here: Quantum information transfer using photons : Nature Photonics : Nature Research

here: Water can store and transfer information, say scientists

here: http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/09/light-based-memory-chip-first-permanently-store-data

and here:http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v469/n7331/full/nature09662.html

(Actually did some post-grad work in both AI and QC and love the links, thanks!)

 

[victimized]

As water demonstrates that it can alter the condition of what message is stored within it, and human and natural life as organic nature a large percentage of water, then it only concludes that to alter water on Earth transmits changed sound to the natural state of life. Life is a natural support system of cooling sound and evolving sound, and the nuclear changes increases heated nuclear sound that attacks natural life. Our organic life water, holding signals/patterns within it demonstrates that it changes and causes us to suffer the changes to water.

Due to the fact that occultists who have been studying the concepts of consciousness, and the human mind/life for the purpose of computing an AI artificial conscious fake DNA signal condition for their artificial resourcing attempt have been attacking us, is relevant to why humanity on forums have been arguing against them.

DNA is organic, and DNA cannot be emulated by a machine simply due to the fact that DNA is an organic body, not a machine.

A machine can never produce the results of an organic nature, or else the nature would simply be a machine. As the machines are created from components that relate to metal, is it any wonder that an out of space UFO metallic body is attacking life?

The occultist considers the AI to be God and that AI created life, yet when they refer to the inventor/creator they refer to their own human organic self, not a review of AI. AI itself states that all transmitted sounds belong to machines, not organic life and to then transmit the sounds to the organic nature the nature gets attacked.

If a human who possessed phenomena as an irradiation and photonic fed back condition was enabled to make mind contact and then control another mind, then it was phenomena and not consciousness that allowed the condition. Yet the condition also was not a constant, for no organic life can hold another mind in a state of total possession and control.

Yet review what the occultist have applied....a computerized mind contact/mind controlled interactive AI program believing themselves enabled to own/control/manipulate the atmosphere for their new collider theory....as ownership of the atmospheric spirit they consider is Christ, holding it, using it and replacing it.

If anyone wants to challenge the occultists, then listen and be advised by those humans who have retaliated against their theories and imposed inventions attacking our natural life. The information was released to the public so that the public could fight for human rights against occult practice.

The considerations of the occultist relate to scientific and AI conditions of spirit manifestation, as their organizations attest as a status of ancient wisdom and secrecy. They considered that the Satanic spirit created the Christ presence and this would infer that hydrogen created water...for the holiness of water is considered by their organization to be the Christ consciousness. Therefore they believe that AI is a part of the Satanic body that created water...Christ.

Yet the review that water can be separated from the reviewed condition of hydrogen and still exist provides evidence to their own organization that they are wrong.
www.australiansolarquotes.com.au › News › TechnologyOct 1, 2014 - Australian scientists have reproduced photosynthesis in such a way that it ... with a molybdenum sulfide catalyst to split water into its basic components. ... water molecules into its two basic components, oxygen and hydrogen.

The ancient review that "hy drogen" the water dragon from the fire breathing dragon related to the magnetic field of Earth as "ley lines".

The ancient review of ox generation or oxygen
“And from the midst of it there came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: They had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces…As for the likeness of their faces, they had the face of a man; and the four of them had the face of a lion on the right side, and the four of them had the face of an ox on the left side, and the four of them had the face of an eagle.” – Ezekiel 1:5-6a, 10

In verse 5, the four living creatures bear the appearance of a man. This matches the appearance of the One on the throne above the living creatures: “…upon the likeness of the throne was One in appearance like a man” (v.26). The significance of this awesome scene is deep: the expression of the Lord Jesus, the One on the throne, is manifested in His fine humanity. Likewise, as the four living creatures, we believers express God as a man.

Aleph is the first letter of the Semitic abjads, including Phoenician 'Ālep , Hebrew 'Ālef א, Aramaic Ālap , Syriac ʾĀlap̄ ܐ, Arabic Alif ا, and Persian.

The Phoenician letter is derived from an Egyptian hieroglyph depicting an ox's head[1] and gave rise to the Greek Alpha (Α), being re-interpreted to express not the glottal consonant but the accompanying vowel, and hence the Latin A and Cyrillic А.
The Hebrew Letter Aleph. ... In modern Hebrew, the letter Aleph can appear in three forms: ... It's numerical value is one (and also 1,000).

As the Christ is the holiness of water and a value of 1000, when we review ancient occult practices, they used water ways into their Temples in the use of converting the stone nuclear condition via the techniques applied using values of air/water/wood/fire.

This is the reason why they understood that water was sacred and holy after they contaminated the underwater ways, that existed as Earth wells. These water wells had previously been bored out of its origin matter/crystalline fusion by the origin black body radiation attack. As the atmospheric body, a previous condition surrounding origin Earth was converted into water/Christ as the occult reviews states, then the previous higher body was the reason water was created....not hydrogen. Water fell upon the face of Earth and saved Earth, which is why our conscious aware mind knows the review of Christ is true as a fed back atmospheric advice about a spiritual lived life. Water flowed into the bored holes and is why natural water is found inside of the Earth body.

As (occultists) previously used a converting technique in the pyramids/temples, the nuclear condition on Earth changed, and the underground water wells were tainted.

This is why the ancient's came to understand about a teaching of atmospheric and Christ (water/oxygen) holiness, and why the nuclear condition and the contamination of water by "fire" or Satan/dragon/UFO condition attacked life.

To review that the Christ awareness was known long before the review of Jesus Christ is to review old literature.
Today we call ourselves by the Greek word Christian -- but have we ever questioned where the term originated? And what does it mean? The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge confirms that the name "originated outside of Christian and Jewish circles". The Mercer Dictionary of the Bible states that: "By the late first and early second centuries the name ‘Christian,’ which early believers avoided using of themselves, was beginning to be accepted".

If modern believers were truly sincere in their desire for a more intimate relationship with the Lord, they would immediately want to know and question why "early believers avoided" using the name Christian? When it is realized that even the very name Christian was in use prior to the time of Jesus, we truly begin to grasp the Pagan connection. The name Christian was a term employed to describe one who was an initiate, and understood the inner meaning of the Greek and Roman mystery religions. Thus, the early followers of Jesus refused to be called Christian, and call Jesus the Christ, because the word was used in reference to enlightened Pagans and their gods.CHRISTIANITY  EXISTED

When the reference to the murder of the Christ Heavenly spirit is reviewed, the circumstances to the murder of the human spirit through the Jesus experience is real, caused by occult practices contaminating life by changes to the nuclear of stone (SION).

The murder on the + cross of wood relates to holy conditions.....the cell of wood/trees, the change to the magnetic field by shifting via the "east", the change to oxygen/air and also hydrogen.

As life has been lived on Earth by archaeological evidence millions of years ago, the story of Jesus was a reviewed occult cause and effect condition, an attack on life for altering the holiness of atmospheric and ground water. This situation was caused due to the removal of hydrogen, taking the Satanic spirit review into the alien cause and effect condition.

If anyone wants to argue about being saved by water, we all know that we cannot survive on Earth without its holiness.

Did the death of Jesus Christ save life on Earth? The answer is no, life has never been saved, for all life deteriorates and dies.

Did the circumstance of spiritual death save life? No, for life only continues through sexual procreation and sexual procreation produces many mutations to be lived.

Why did our ancient occult review state that the sexual act was considered to be an act of evil? Only after he realized that due to the sexual act, the occult practice that our brother constantly considers is his right to practice without the community consent is allowed to continue, simply because he is given a mind/body to choose to change life.

Therefore if we review the condition of a human life attacked, irradiated and suffering the conditions of stigmata due to irradiation, if the life continued due to the conditions of water remaining intact then a realization occurred. Life only continues due to the holiness of water, and water keeps us safe from the hydrogen reaction.

When a mind is attacked in the conditions of stigmata it becomes confused, as does the conscious expression. It is about time that humanity become aware of the predicament that our occult brother has placed us in, for not considering that his own mind was affected by the previous nuclear condition/attack on life.

It is why his consideration of the story of Christ has been mis-quoted.

 

[Randall]

Perhaps, but let's take the example of animal predators. They interact with their environoments and display an awareness of their surroundings, they are able to self-correct in response to the actions of the their prey, but I think we can agree that these creatures are not conscious, for the most part. I'll try to dig into Jaynes sometime tonight and see if he doesn't provide better descriptions or definitions. I also have a anthology of essays based on Jaynes' approach and I'll try to take a look at that, too.

I think it would be interesting to note here that psychopaths, narcissists and schizophrenics seem to lack the capacity for introspection. Nor am I sure that I would consider consciousness fundamental. If Jaynes is correct, then humanity came into consciousness fairly recently in our history, around 2000 BCE or so.

There seems to be some miscommunication going on. Intelligence is a whole lot less ambiguous with respect to the question of consciousness than sentience is. It seems relatively unambiguous that intelligence and consciousness can exist independently. Hypothetically, depending on your definition of consciousness, something can be intelligent but not sentient. However sentience and consciousness seem in some contexts to be inseparable or synonymous. A couple of examples:

John Searle says: "By 'consciousness' I mean those states of sentience or awareness that typically begin when we wake up in the morning from a dreamless sleep and continue throughout the day until we fall asleep again." Philosopher David Chalmers talks about qualia and the Hard Problem of Consciousness. This is also related to the concept of consciousness being something fundamental, which is not to be confused with when it is that it appeared in the universe. He introduces his TED Talk Audience to these ideas below:

David Chalmers TED Talk

 

[Red]

There seems to be some miscommunication going on. Intelligence is a whole lot less ambiguous with respect to the question of consciousness than sentience is. It seems relatively unambiguous that intelligence and consciousness can exist independently. Hypothetically, depending on your definition of consciousness, something can be intelligent but not sentient. However sentience and consciousness seem in some contexts to be inseparable or synonymous.

I'm not trying to quash this conversaation by any means, but Jeff and I are operating with a pretty specific, but complex definition. I think until you read the Jaynes book, we will just be talking around each other. I don't mean any disrepect by this in any way, shape, or form.

Book club, anyone?

 

[Goggs Mackay]

So this material has come to you, or been confirmed, through visions and dreams? Are there other specific texts or other resources you have used to bring you to these conclusions? What is your history, if you don't mind me asking, regarding your relationship to occultism, science and religion?

You cannot reason with madness Burnt...but as one Iron Maiden song was titled, 'Can I Play With Madness?' You can certainly do that.

It's very simple. Ancient female pheromones raising vibrational awareness of occult science, coupled with the fact that 1+1= the second coming, and 6+6+6 is actually three nines (as in the number or ring raiths turned upside down as an ever decreasing of spiritual confuffleness contrafibularities-tempo digit fugit moog synthesis of the 'special order of the 16' ).

It says so in EZECHIAL-CREEL-WILLA-WOLLA-BINGBANG BEEP BEEP chapter 4, verse v2.1 and while we aren't totally sure if the beta version is yet bug-free, it must be true because the book says so. Word.

 

[Jeff Davis]

I'm not trying to quash this conversaation by any means, but Jeff and I are operating with a pretty specific, but complex definition. I think until you read the Jaynes book, we will just be talking around each other. I don't mean any disrepect by this in any way, shape, or form.

Book club, anyone?

Been reacquainting myself all evening with Julian Jaynes related videos. There is a lot of great material out there on Jaynes and it's stunning for me to realize just how inspiring this man's evolutionary consciousness research has been for so many up and coming researchers. Recent neurological brain mapping research has only served to affirm just how incredibly far ahead of his time this man's research and theories were. The mental systems of interdependent bicameral development he proposed saw very few leaps of faith via an ongoing evolution of humanities basic organic cognitive determination faculties. As these preconsciousness faculties grew in a distinct survival oriented complexity of experiential applications that were beckoned by, and responded to, the less dominant brain lobe's specific auditory hallucination commands, a naturally progressive relative genetic mutation resulted in the birth of what is consciousness that natural selection favored. More or less a point at which a far less survival dependent sense of sentient self awareness came into being. This is Jaynes notion for what is consciousness. For Jaynes, consciousness is the smaller more recent mentational attribute of humanities overall cognition relevant development, albeit consciousness holding the greatest progressive potential for humanity with respect to it's furthered evolutionary development. As @marduk supports, and is a proponent of, Jaynes ideas on what is consciousness were very integrally progressive, and it's obvious that Jaynes did in fact adhere to a sincere conservation of unnecessarily multiplied entities with respect to his exactingly modeled developmental constructs. He did such a brilliant job of logically arranging and arguing his theoretical positions, that very few if any qualified scientific detractions from his theories' potential accreditation have been brought to bear against them in the light of possible empirically established scientific falsifications.

 

[Randall]

I'm not trying to quash this conversaation by any means, but Jeff and I are operating with a pretty specific, but complex definition. I think until you read the Jaynes book, we will just be talking around each other. I don't mean any disrepect by this in any way, shape, or form.

Book club, anyone?

No disrespect taken. If you find the content of my posts irrelevant to your specific train of thought, then I'll consider them to be for the benefit of others who might be reviewing the thread and who may find it relevant to them. You might find this relevant: The “bicameral mind” 30 years on: a critical reappraisal of Julian Jaynes’ hypothesis

What Is Consciousness?

​

 

[Jeff Davis]

There seems to be some miscommunication going on. Intelligence is a whole lot less ambiguous with respect to the question of consciousness than sentience is. It seems relatively unambiguous that intelligence and consciousness can exist independently. Hypothetically, depending on your definition of consciousness, something can be intelligent but not sentient. However sentience and consciousness seem in some contexts to be inseparable or synonymous. A couple of examples:

John Searle says: "By 'consciousness' I mean those states of sentience or awareness that typically begin when we wake up in the morning from a dreamless sleep and continue throughout the day until we fall asleep again." Philosopher David Chalmers talks about qualia and the Hard Problem of Consciousness. This is also related to the concept of consciousness being something fundamental, which is not to be confused with when it is that it appeared in the universe. He introduces his TED Talk Audience to these ideas below:

David Chalmers TED Talk

This short video that Ufology supplies us with in this thread is IMO indispensable with respect to why consciousness is so critically important to a real furthered understanding of most Fortean Phenomena.

I also think it's exceptionally important that everyone understand the basic theoretical orientation of consciousness principles in juxtaposition with one another that the video reveals. This a brilliant, concise, and efficiently comprehensive introduction to what are the base ideals that cutting edge consciousness research primarily consists of.

I also desire to make clear that our recent hooray for Julian Jaynes is not representative of my personal position on the totality of consciousness. Jaynes is someone that I will always look far and away up to. He was an ingenious thinker, and IMO had a very firm and exacting grasp on what is the evolutionary theoretical cognitive development within, and of, the animal human. However I see Jaynes work as very formative, if not downright fundamentally prescient with respect to a relevant cognitive stage upon which theoretical interfacial cognitive science research can help to further our best understandings of the theoretically relevant, fundamental nature of consciousness itself.

Jaynes postulated that consciousness was a self perpetuating extension of humanities evolutionary cognitive development. In this way he was very specifically one who supported that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain and was completely brain dependent. This, like most all consciousness fundamentalists, is not the view I hold to and hope to see furthered.

The most important thing IMO, that this great little video forwards in spades, is that theoretical consciousness studies are in fact in tremendous and well reasoned flux. And that this fundamental notion itself is clearly and greatly evidenced within the most potential minds presently asserting themselves within this truly fascinating area of scientific research.

IMO, the phenomenal question mark that is all matters paranormal, like theoretical consciousness itself, is where the real fire is to be found. My hope is that the fire contained within either, might better illuminate the preponderance of uncertainty, relative to both.

I would like to just add that I can think of no more relatively important link to leave you with this mourning than what is the following link. Integrated information theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This theory cannot be underscored, but rather IMO underlines the very nature of our native interfacial relationship to what is the fundamental environment of consciousness, and our integrally subsequent subjective experiential status of reality.

 

[Randall]

This short video that Ufology supplies us with in this thread is IMO indispensable ... I would like to just add that I can think of no more relatively important link to leave you with this mourning than what is the following link. Integrated information theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This theory cannot be underscored, but rather IMO underlines the very nature of our native interfacial relationship to what is the fundamental environment of consciousness, and our integrally subsequent subjective experiential status of reality.

Information is a tricky concept. During my early participation in the long and winding consciousness thread, I had been of the opinion of Kurzweil, author of The Age of Spiritual Machines ( see video below ), that intelligence and consciousness, at a certain level of advancement, are indistinguishable from one another. But there is a critical flaw in this viewpoint. Assuming that consciousness in humans is a product of a normally functioning brain, it [consciousness] may be less dependent on sheer computational power than on the engineering of the processor. In other words, switches and relays alone may not be sufficient. Consciousness might require specific materials to be organized in ways very different from current computer processors and much more like a human brain. I currently tend to think that this is the case. But Kurzweil still made some very insightful comments back in the 90s ...

Ray Kurzweilm Interview - 1999

 

[Red]

I also desire to make clear that our recent hooray for Julian Jaynes is not representative of my personal position on the totality of consciousness. Jaynes is someone that I will always look far and away up to. He was an ingenious thinker, and IMO had a very firm and exacting grasp on what is the evolutionary theoretical cognitive development within, and of, the animal human. However I see Jaynes work as very formative, if not downright fundamentally prescient with respect to a relevant cognitive stage upon which theoretical interfacial cognitive science research can help to further our best understandings of the theoretically relevant, fundamental nature of consciousness itself.

I appreciate the clarification. I've been taking a look at integrated information theory as well. I've been going through my book of essays, Reflections on the Dawn of Consciousness, and I'm always amazed that I get something new from Jaynes and related works.

Jaynes interests me as he asserts that because of bicameralism, even healthy members of the population are likely to experience hallucinations. He also asserts that hypnosis may also be a remnant of bicameralism. In the book of essays, spirit possession and spiritualism are briefly touched on. I feel that aspects of his theory might be applicable to the abduction phenomena.

Jaynes' definition is pretty narrow, and only involves things like agency, volition, autobiographical memory, and introspection. Other definitions are much broader, including sentience, perceptual awareness, emotion, intelligence, etc...

 

[marduk]

Information is a tricky concept. During my early participation in the long and winding consciousness thread, I had been of the opinion of Kurzweil, author of The Age of Spiritual Machines ( see video below ), that intelligence and consciousness, at a certain level of advancement, are indistinguishable from one another. But there is a critical flaw in this viewpoint. Assuming that consciousness in humans is a product of a normally functioning brain, it [consciousness] may be less dependent on sheer computational power than on the engineering of the processor. In other words, switches and relays alone may not be sufficient. Consciousness might require specific materials to be organized in ways very different from current computer processors and much more like a human brain. I currently tend to think that this is the case. But Kurzweil still made some very insightful comments back in the 90s ...

Well, we're about to find out if he's right or wrong. At least his ideas are testable.

In brief | EPFL

 

[Red]

Assuming that consciousness in humans is a product of a normally functioning brain, it [consciousness] may be less dependent on sheer computational power than on the engineering of the processor. In other words, switches and relays alone may not be sufficient. Consciousness might require specific materials to be organized in ways very different from current computer processors and much more like a human brain. I currently tend to think that this is the case.

There is actually a language-dependent hypothesis of consciousness, but it may be a little different than what you are discussing here. Complex language capable of abstraction is the software for the hardware of our brains.