The Roswell Slides Have Been Leaked Online

[ChrisJohnsen]

Ufologists are mostly broke and/or all have day jobs, except for those secret folk who work for hypothetical crash retrieval teams & certified Alien Hunters.

I am mere hours of online course study away from my Alien Hunter© certification... #DerrelSimsUniversity

 

[ChrisJohnsen]

I am co-host of the very popular USA radio/Internet show, the Paracast. Gene Sternberg and I would love to have you as a guest on the program.

I love me some Gene Sternberg. ;-)

 

[Burnt State]

One could easily be forgiven for thinking that this person was also part of the hoax and was playing a role that had been specially scripted for him by John Lundberg in his forthcoming (?) film production about the Roswell Slides.

Goshdarnit, George! Lundberg is making a film about Andy Kaufman called "Kaufman Lives"

and Adam Dew who is a real human being is still mulling about making his documentary about the Roswell Slides. They are different

people who have parallel agendas when it comes to pointing out mythmaking in action or at least documenting the Roswellian nature of modern Ufology as it pulls itself into existence by the very nature of the people who choose to describe it, debate it, hate it, believe it, love it, leave it & live it. Currently it seems the present status is to be very forgiving to those poor guys who strung together an impossible narrative out of pure suspicious and curious invention. Was there malice there or just a desire to believe and to prove? Only MUFON dares to cry foul because as the vampire of modern ufology it broke all its mirrors long ago and is completely blind.

None of the participants are claiming hoax or manufacture - everyone is claiming confusion or indifference, except for the legends in the field: Howe, Strieber, and Maussan. As high priests and priestesses their privilege is to proclaim the nature of the myth the loudest with absolutely infallible conviction. This is all just fluff on the stage of ufology. Let's get to the real discussion instead of pointing fingers at who is making stuff up when it's obvious that people are making stuff up.

 

[Bob Watson]

Jamie maussan
Linda molton howe
Whittly strieber


Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk

 

[Flatwoods]

I think a very good documentary can be made about the Roswell slides case, if the producer/director was inspired to change the focus of the film - away from the slides and toward the personalities of everyone involved. I'd like to see a documentary highlighting the clashing viewpoints of Carey, Schmidt, Randle, Maussan, the RSRG, Dolan, Redfern, to name just a few. It's time we had a movie that gave us real insight into the people behind the world of ufology for a change.

 

[Sentry]

I think a very good documentary can be made about the Roswell slides case...

Simon Sharman had a film, "Cosmic Whistleblowers" nearly complete, part of which included coverage of the Slides saga. He was holding up the film for the event, flew from the UK to Mexico City to film, it and by the time he got home, the ending had changed. He's in the process of conducting new interviews to reflect the exposure of the slides, but may be mired in Maussan's continuing efforts to portray them as depicting something alien, or anomalous.

 

[Constance]

None of the participants are claiming hoax or manufacture - everyone is claiming confusion or indifference. . . . This is all just fluff on the stage of ufology. Let's get to the real discussion instead of pointing fingers at who is making stuff up when it's obvious that people are making stuff up.

In his most recent blog Kevin Randle points out several reasonable grounds for suspecting that a hoax was involved at the outset with the purpose of discrediting ufo research.

". . . Here’s the thing. Someone in on the beginning of the investigation had to know the truth. The slide placard was deblurred so quickly that any alibi about the failure to do so prior to May 5th falls onto those making the investigation. They should have been able to do that three years ago rather than get caught up in this sideshow. Basic research and a demand to see the original slides probably would have ended this long before we get to Mexico City. A simple question about the sequence of the slides, such as “Where is number ten?” might have done it. (I note here that according to some, the slides shown were number 9 and number 11, which left the question of “Where is number 10?)

If Adam Dew and his pal, Joe Beason, had any thoughts of proving how credulous UFO investigators are for some kind of a documentary, they failed at that. This wouldn’t have worked had they provided high quality scans of all of the slides to researchers. Given that, those researchers would have been able to read the placard in a matter of hours. How do I know? Because within hours of a high resolution scan appearing on Dew’s website, the placard was read.

I’ll throw one other thing out here. I believe that the mystery caller who told Nick Redfern about all this, the man who allegedly overheard a conversation in Midland, Texas, was probably either Beason, Dew or a pal of theirs. The idea that someone in Midland overheard this conversation, heard enough to understand so much of what was going on including the nondisclosure agreements, and then knew Nick Redfern, is just too much of a coincidence. It had to be arranged so that the story would get out and the hype could begin. And the hype did begin right there.

This should have never happened. It was a combination of the secrecy imposed by Dew and Beason and the enthusiasm of the Roswell investigators for the final “smoking gun” evidence. Had anyone looked at all the red flags and asked some very basic questions, this would have been seen for what it was. The majority of the blame probably belongs to Dew and Beason, but there is plenty to be shared by the others who participated in the long investigation and the program in Mexico City. We should all learn from this and change the way we do business."

A Different Perspective

 

[Burnt State]

The somewhat interesting and mostly sad part of ufology is its inability to seek the path of least resistance. It is subsumed by its own gossip show, as Duensing pointed out. Instead of engaging in the complexity of the phenomenon it's turned into a soap opera. Speculations about intentionality only leads to more gossip.

Someone wanted to make money. Someone wanted to believe. Someone didn't do ther due diligence. Someone wanted to protest. And someone wanted to stay home. Ufology plots it's own demise this way and needs little help, as its cart has been put before the horse in a fairly childish manner far too often of late.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

The somewhat interesting and mostly sad part of ufology is its inability to seek the path of least resistance. It is subsumed by its own gossip show, as Duensing pointed out. Instead of engaging in the complexity of the phenomenon it's turned into a soap opera. Speculations about intentionality only leads to more gossip.

Someone wanted to make money. Someone wanted to believe. Someone didn't do ther due diligence. Someone wanted to protest. And someone wanted to stay home. Ufology plots it's own demise this way and needs little help, as its cart has been put before the horse in a fairly childish manner far too often of late.

Then move out of that arena and pursue something else. The only demise in Ufology is in your own head Burnt. The phenomena hasn't gone away.

 

[Burnt State]

Then move out of that arena and pursue something else. The only demise in Ufology is in your own head Burnt. The phenomena hasn't gone away.

Did I say anything about the phenomenon not existing? Ufology and the phenomenon are two separate things.

"You can't study ufology with ufology," says the wise man, at least not with this drama that doesn't even have trace evidence anywhere near it.

Ufology makes itself look bad and is obsessed more with gossip about personalities and putting on circus acts instead of investing better energy into investigating the phenomenon. The obsession with Roswell, a single case, that repeatedly has these hoaxed media pieces attached to it, whose witnesses are mostly dead and unconfirmed, continues to misrepresent the field as a place of serious inquiry of a seriously puzzling phenomenon deserving of thinking that moves past the ETH and IDH into new ground. This rehashing of an uncertain past, with a feigned seriousness that actually mocks science does little to serve the field. At least that was what I meant to communicate. It's not dead but many methodologies are broken.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

Did I say anything about the phenomenon not existing? Ufology and the phenomenon are two separate things.

"You can't study ufology with ufology," says the wise man, at least not with this drama that doesn't even have trace evidence anywhere near it.

Ufology makes itself look bad and is obsessed more with gossip about personalities and putting on circus acts instead of investing better energy into investigating the phenomenon. The obsession with Roswell, a single case, that repeatedly has these hoaxed media pieces attached to it, whose witnesses are mostly dead and unconfirmed, continues to misrepresent the field as a place of serious inquiry of a seriously puzzling phenomenon deserving of thinking that moves past the ETH and IDH into new ground. This rehashing of an uncertain past, with a feigned seriousness that actually mocks science does little to serve the field. At least that was what I meant to communicate. It's not dead but many methodologies are broken.

Whatever ground you'd like to move it, you can move it. It starts and stops with you. There are years of hard work on the bookshelves, new projects underway, all for the taking. If Roswell doesn't interest you, leave it. If the ETH doesn't work for you, leave it. As to science, which involves real people enacting with real methods, they won't until you pay them. And we'll have to disagree that methodologies are broken, I would instead say they are limited. Which is why a project such as Chris O's will attempt to move it forward.

 

[DissectionStalker]

One could easily be forgiven for thinking that this person was also part of the hoax and was playing a role that had been specially scripted for him by John Lundberg in his forthcoming (?) film production about the Roswell Slides.

George, I think it's fantastic that you pointed out that John Lundberg was following this thread, and you actually got him to post here a few times too. I'm quite curious what all he knew ahead of time, and what he thinks about "the unfolding" of events to reveal the wording on the placard so quickly.

I hope you will continue to follow-up and comment more to this thread if you wish, as I think your ideas are worthy of consideration even when it's speculation that may not be accurately "the truth". At least it's an attempt to provide some possible explanations that may be nearing the truth or in parallel to getting there ultimately.

 

[DissectionStalker]

I don't think 'apologies' from any of the ufo researchers involved should be a critical factor in present and future decisions to ban these individuals. It would be different if it could be proved that these people had collectively 'hoaxed' the 'Roswell slides' investigation. That has not been proved.

I also do not see Mausson as a 'hoaxer', though his general style in pursuing and presenting possible ufo and et cases to the public before completing adequate investigation is often damaging to the field in general.

The fact that Adam Dew, to this very day, has never released the promised high resolution slides (original raw scans w/specs) only proves to me the entire Slide Team were completely incompetent to do any valid research that could ever be reliable or trusted from ANY of these people BEFORE and AFTER this slide hoax.

Excuse them any way you wish, if you must, I don't, but none of these people were honestly looking for the real truth over 2-3 years. No way! They ALL get what they deserved: to be fully discredited as reliable and trustworthy about any research they've done regarding Roswell or Ufology.

In fact, their incompetence is in many respects far worse than being direct hoaxers and fraud artists, because it just demonstrates how "stupid" Roswell and Ufology is! (Assuming many people rely on their kind of knowledge bases, or how they've presented their Roswellian Truths.)

 

[George Wingfield]

Goshdarnit, George! Lundberg is making a film about Andy Kaufman called "Kaufman Lives"
and Adam Dew who is a real human being is still mulling about making his documentary about the Roswell Slides. They are different......................Burnt State

Goshdarnit, Burnt! Anyone who can't see by now that the "Roswell Slides" business was a carefully prepared and stage-managed hoax must be wearing the very thickest blinkers or have their heads buried firmly in the sand. Even Kevin Randle (see Constance's posting) is beginning to twig that this thing was a major hoax from the very start rather than a simply misidentified mummy as the hoaxers would have you believe.

Of course Adam Dew is real human being but he has also been the front man for the hoaxers: Lundberg, Irving and Mantle. Lundberg has already avoided appearing on The Paracast and having to answer searching questions from Gene and Chris. I suggest that Adam Dew would also decline such an invitation and swear blind that he has no connection with Lundberg and Irving. And what are the chances of "Anthony Bragalia" accepting such an invitation to be questioned on The Paracast? Nil, I would suggest. It is entirely possible that Jaime Maussan, Don Schmitt and Tom Carey never saw any alleged (high-resolution) images of the "dead alien" showing distinct non-human features and they simply accepted Bragalia's word for it. If that was the case, I would say these three were extremely foolish to trust either Dew or Bragalia in the first place.

Members of RSRG who are unable to see this thing was all a hoax have been very naive if they accepted the Hilda Ray/Mamie Eisenhower/"private viewing of dead alien" story in the first place. Unfortunately most of the Roswell Skeptics, like Burnt, see everything in black and white terms: on one side are the charlatans, fraudsters and fantasists like Jaime Maussan and his followers and on the other are the good guys, the Skeptics, who KNOW the Roswell Myth is all a load of crap. So the Skeptics cherrypick the supposed evidence that is presented just to fit their angle on all this. If Bragalia talks about extraterrestrial metals or materials associated with the (alleged) Roswell Crash and the fact that the "genuine alien" shown in the Roswell Slides will change the world on the day of the BeWitness event, they say the guy's an idiot. When Bragalia does an amazing U-turn the next day and says the supposed alien was merely a misidentified dummy they eagerly grasp that as TRUE since it will further hasten the downfall of arch-charlatan Maussan. They fail to realize this is all part of the plot. I'm afraid there can be hoaxers on both sides of the fence and, if you look, the whole UFO field is full of fantasy, fraud and deception. Just because someone, like Lundberg, is seen as an avid opponent of those like Maussan who espouse the Roswell Myth it doesn't mean to say he's a good guy who is solely interested in the truth and would never be the mastermind behind such a hoax.

 

[Burnt State]

That's just more gossip. You continue to misinterpret Lundberg. I don't think he sees himself as an opponent of anyone so much as a sociologist, or more specifically an ethnographer of modern myths. You're also missing the boat on the RSRG team as well if you think they ever entertained any of the mythos constructed by the Slidebox Media team. But more importantly, George, do you see how all of this Roswellian discussion has absolutely nothing to do with exploring the phenomenon so much as working on confabulating the mythos of Roswell? This entire discussion is so far removed from anything to do with the actual phenomenon and is only now a study of personalities. The promotion of devious circles within circles and of some boogeyman out to discredit ufology is a sad excuse for not recognizing the nature of ufological nihilism at work in all of this.

Has anything specifically been learned about the supposed Roswell crash or about what UFO's are from any of this?

 

[George Wingfield]

George, I think it's fantastic that you pointed out that John Lundberg was following this thread, and you actually got him to post here a few times too. I'm quite curious what all he knew ahead of time, and what he thinks about "the unfolding" of events to reveal the wording on the placard so quickly.

I hope you will continue to follow-up and comment more to this thread if you wish, as I think your ideas are worthy of consideration even when it's speculation that may not be accurately "the truth". At least it's an attempt to provide some possible explanations that may be nearing the truth or in parallel to getting there ultimately.

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DissectionStalker,

Sorry not to have replied sooner. I’ve been at the Glastonbury Festival in the UK which, besides the rock and roll and other music, features quite a bit of creative British fantasy production a bit like, maybe, the Roswell Slides Hoax.

It’s not just Lundberg who was closely following this Paracast thread and who posted here a few times. The three hoaxers under various false identities have posted several times on Kevin Randle’s ‘Different Perspective’ as well as posting here. Philip Mantle initially posted as himself and Rob Irving was using the moniker “CommanderCronus” besides other fake identities. These hoaxers post both a mixture of false information and also what can seem to be reasonable comment. This makes some people believe they are genuine interested parties. This tactic was used by Lundberg and Irving when they produced the Alien Autopsy scam in 1995. Their eminently reasonable suggestion then that Santilli’s “Roswell Alien” was actually a SFX dummy completely disguised the fact that they were ones who had made it. At the same time someone called "Ed Gehrman" praised the Alien Autopsy footage to the skies and said that it definitely showed the genuine thing --a real Roswell Alien. More than likely Gehrman was a fake identity used by Rob Irving to promote the Alien Autopsy footage and I think this bogus character reappeared recently to promote the Roswell Slides. Not long ago Paul Kimball described "Anthony Bragalia" as the current incarnation of Gehrman and, before May 5th, the leading advocate that the slides showed a genuine alien. I suggest both these names are fake identities created by the hoaxers.

The fact that Burnt State considers John Lundberg to be some kind of a hero because of his acclaimed exposure of the Roswell Myth in the film ‘Mirage Men’ seems to have made him blind to the ongoing Roswell Slides hoax. The hoaxers under their various identities are mostly the ones who still go on about Hilda Ray, Mamie Eisenhower, the supposed private viewing of the dead alien/mummy in a museum, the sequence of the (non-existent) slides where #10 is missing, and now something about a man who “overheard a conversation” about all this in Midland, Texas. Give us a break! All of that is part of the FALSE background story for the alleged 1947/1948 slides which have never been seen by anyone reliable and almost certainly never existed. All anyone truthful has ever seen is digital images of uncertain date and uncertain origin supplied via Adam Dew on the internet.

Do those who say they can’t see a hoax here still believe the ridiculous cockamamie background story? It still appears to be the basis for what “Anthony Bragalia” is saying now with his detailed insistence that this was all along just a mummified child from Montezuma Castle, AZ, and that no trickery was involved? Is this “Anthony Bragalia”, (presumably self-proclaimed as) the World’s Greatest UFO Researcher before the May 5th event a real person --or is he just another false identity out there on the internet? The fact that he was reported to have said “Wingfield doesn’t know what he’s talking about” shortly before the BeWitness event makes it seem likely he is another of Lundberg’s fake personas. Wingfield actually does know what he’s talking about......

At least most folk now recognize the Roswell Slides were a hoax though some may still be unaware who (apart from Adam Dew) was responsible. I’ve no doubt the hoaxers will continue trying to cover this up but I can assure you that I have identified the right culprits.

 

[Han]

Hi George, Richard Dolan was asked* about whether he thought the images he was initially shown, were different than the ones presented at the Bewitness event, his response was no, they were the same.
I understand that he knows schmidt and carey, and when he (Dolan) was asked the same question regarding them (as in the slides they saw) he stated that they had not mentioned any differences to him.

This leads me to suspect that there was no need for photo manipulation or even a "dummy/sfx" model.

I am convinced it was a deliberate hoax/fraud, but I don't know enough about the UFO field or the characters in it to make a list of "suspects".
However the fact that the slides are still being discussed to this day, clearly demonstrates who ever was behind the whole deception was an ace hoaxer, with a lot of experience and knowledge about the UFO field and the people in it. I think it is worth mentioning that before this slidegate saga, I had never heard of Mr Dew** and as I mentioned before this was an extremely sophisticated hoax, which suggests to me that Dew would not be able to pull it off, let alone come up with it in the first place.
The metaphor that springs to mind is: that it is like someone who can not read music, sing or play any instruments being asked to conduct a symphony orchestra and doing a better job than a veteran conductor.


From my own personal standpoint I do not wish to make any allegations without evidence, but I feel that I have to say that: I find it interesting that Mr Lundberg had contact with LMH (in the Mirage men film) and now she is very much involved in the slidegate saga, I am sure its just coincidence, and I repeat that I don't think there is evidence that Mr Lundberg is involved.


*On the most recent episode of the Paracast 28/6/15

*I admit I am not familiar with all the names in the UFO field, but I have listened to the Paracast for a number of years and I am sure I would have remembered if Dew's name had come up (especially given that he is from England).

 

[wwkirk]

The UFO Trail: UFO Community Members Weigh in on Dubious MUFON Speakers

 

[Burnt State]

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The fact that Burnt State considers John Lundberg to be some kind of a hero because of his acclaimed exposure of the Roswell Myth in the film ‘Mirage Men’ seems to have made him blind to the ongoing Roswell Slides hoax. The hoaxers under their various identities are mostly the ones who still go on about Hilda Ray, Mamie Eisenhower, the supposed private viewing of the dead alien/mummy in a museum, the sequence of the (non-existent) slides where #10 is missing, and now something about a man who “overheard a conversation” about all this in Midland, Texas. Give us a break! All of that is part of the FALSE background story for the alleged 1947/1948 slides which have never been seen by anyone reliable and almost certainly never existed. All anyone truthful has ever seen is digital images of uncertain date and uncertain origin supplied via Adam Dew on the internet.

LOL, i don't really go in for hero worship myself but i do appreciate accuracy in reporting as opposed to spinning fantasies. You've spun quite a few here and i don't see how that helps move the field forward. Speculation and gossip only continues to discredit the field by substituting fantasy for fact. Everyone recognizes that the spin placed on the slide origin was also fantasy, but that was fantasy pitched by believers - people who believed that the slides actually had aliens in them. Those specific promoters and researchers created that story of possibilities to help build a Roswellian fantasy.

You are just adding a new layer to their smashed hopes and concoctions by looking for new boogeymen. It's been well established what the slides show in terms of historical mummification. Of what possible benefit is your own fantasy involving the uninvolved with this story? It's a historical slide that Dew and his backers thought they could make some money off of - does it have to get weirder than that? Did not a slew of ufologists not already do their best to make it weirder?

Suspicions don't make facts. But that's what a lot of ufology has been founded upon and you are participating in it right now. You are in fact a practitioner of Ostension.

 

[DissectionStalker]

Those specific promoters and researchers created that story of possibilities to help build a Roswellian fantasy.

Has there been any physical proof that NDA's were signed because of Adam Dew's controlling interests and demands over the slides? I believe Kevin Randle has suggested or assumed Dew had/has these controlling interests and "perceived ownership", but someone suggested the Executor of the Ray Estate may be able to make legal claims to the slides IF in fact that is the source of the slides.

Burnt, nothing is nailed down as factual about this entire affair except that Adam Dew and the other principals will not cooperate or reveal "the truth" about any of this. Han makes an excellent point that Dew could just be the "front man" for the real orchestrator(s) of this slide show.

Has Dew proven these were found by his friend's sister Cat? It seems Sentry has proven she exists, but that does not prove where the slides were sourced, etc.

Dew was caught "red handed" pulling his video off youtube within minutes, when he was exposed for propagating a different story himself about how the slides were found. I know this for a fact, as I posted about this happening earlier in this very thread. Did he just make an "honest" mistake and misspoke, or was he weaving tales that had no basis in fact?

George goes way back decades now knowing how these games are played. I am fascinated that he was a "chosen one" to see UFO's in DC, when he met the MIB/PTB [I don't recall the specific agencies] in that same visit and time frame. Obviously, someone has the power to reveal UFO's to George by command in some respects. That's not a random event or coincidence if we take George's word that this really happened. I honestly believe him about it. So that is the hook and bait that captured me if it's BS.

George seems to have spent some time reading comments over at Kevin Randle's blog and here, so it's possible he is detecting some language patterns and ideas that seem to match-up with some personalities he knew from the previous alien autopsy fraud. That's definitely a believable scenario, as I know first hand how writing styles and ideas can reveal the person behind such language. Haha... it's happened to me. Wink.