The Roswell Slides Have Been Leaked Online

[Burnt State]

That's a large crock of the genuine article, John, but obviously a convenient article of faith for you and yours.

I'm not too sure about that. All of reality is described in words. Science, philosophy, history, etc. all stories about reality. Shift your model of the atom and suddenly you have quantum reality. Stories give way to new stories and in turn make new realities. Is there any other way to understand how it is we believe things?

In Ufology Doty and Howe are a great example of spooky action at a distance: one spins one way and the other responds in kind. Projects Sign, Grudge, Blue Book etc. all tried to spin their own reality, and now those who would try to sell these slides of unknown objects are trying to assert a reality of aliens crashing in Roswell. MJ12 anyone?

The UFO narrative is sold by many various practitioners. But try to separate the story from the social context of the witness, or from the stories we would like to believe about aliens from other planets coming to visit us and collecting soil samples, or breeding hybrid alien children. Whose story is that?

 

[George Wingfield]

George, to use your term I always though that it was a delicious irony that the "secular side" of my business was used to finance Mirage Men. Whilst we're on the subject of irony, you mention Linda Howe, to me it was always ironic that Rick Doty agreed to participate in the film the day we met with him to talk about the project and beyond certain agreed parameters was willing to do pretty much anything we asked him to do, but we had to pursue Linda for five years before she finally agreed to participate in Mirage Men. I understood her reticence, given her belief systems and who I am, but I'm very grateful that she did finally agree to participate, as the film would be incomplete if she was absent from it. I think the back to back scenes with Rick and Linda telling their sides of the story are the strongest in the film. Both of their entire interviews are utterly compelling. In the end, the only person who refused to participate in the film was Bill Moore. Once he found out we had managed to get hold of the footage of his infamous 1989 Las Vegas MUFON speech and used it in the film, he threatened to sue us, thankfully we have a very good attorney.

John,

Do I understand that you have declined an invitation to appear on The Paracast to discuss Mirage Men, current US UFO mythology, and some minor distractions like the Roswell Slides? I, for one, will be disappointed if you are unwilling to face Gene and Chris’s inquisition and tell us your opinion on whether there’s anything left of value in US ufology. I do realize such an interview might have a negative impact on your business dealings but surely that’s a risk worth taking? Rather than just saying “I can neither confirm nor deny what you say” to various probing questions, there’s a much better formula that you can use which I’ve taken from Francis Urquhart in the UK version of the BBC’s House of Cards. This goes: “You may very well think that but I couldn’t possibly comment”.

Another defense to an awkward question was Linda Howe’s response to me a few years ago when I queried some of her presentation about the alleged alien presence. She called me a TDB (testosterone driven bastard) in front of an audience and that put paid to any further rational discussion. I do feel a little sorry for Linda being roasted in Mirage Men but it really had to be said. Her defense to what Mirage Men so admirably reveals about the origins of the Roswellian myth could be that, like Richard Doty, you too are known to have been a prolific deception-monger over the last 24 years and therefore why should anyone believe the scenario which you depict in this film?

You say that Bill Moore was the only person who refused to participate in Mirage Men and that he threatened you with lawsuits. That figures. I am surprised that you didn’t ask John Alexander to participate. Possibly he declined too? He is held by some as the more acceptable face of US ufology these days but by others as lynchpin of the alleged government cover-up who will go to any length to conceal “the truth about the UFOs”. I know he was in the Army –rather than the USAF-- and he held a senior position in the DIA but one really has to ask how much he knew of the UFO disinformation and deception campaign during the 1980s that was being carried out by Doty and others out of Kirtland AFB in New Mexico. The question is particularly relevant to what he has said about the 1980 Cash-Landrum UFO case which I talked about recently on The Paracast.

George

 

[Constance]

All of reality is described in words.

I don't think it is or could be. Less than half of what I know to be real has come to me through language. I think that's the case for all of us.

 

[Burnt State]

I don't think it is or could be. Less than half of what I know to be real has come to me through language. I think that's the case for all of us.

I don't think it is or could be. Less than half of what I know to be real has come to me through language. I think that's the case for all of us.

For me reality is a social context & events that happen need interpretation. Even my feelings about events are all filtered through a linguistic paradigm. To think about things, to understand them and then to share them comes through words. If you want to change a social context, or how people think you use words, sometimes images. But how do images work? They tell a story.

Only music approaches a non-linguistic mode of communication but it's still just another way to tell a story. Narrative is inescapable except for the zen meditator, and similar practitioners, who know how to enter the bliss of the null zone and cancel out thought.

Even our other ways of knowing require a pre-defined context and interpretation. How do you know without the story behind what you know or how new experiences are different than what you know? The Roswell Slides are a good example of this process.

 

[Ostension]

Do I understand that you have declined an invitation to appear on The Paracast to discuss Mirage Men, current US UFO mythology, and some minor distractions like the Roswell Slides? I, for one, will be disappointed if you are unwilling to face Gene and Chris’s inquisition and tell us your opinion on whether there’s anything left of value in US ufology.

Hi George, as I said to Chris, I much prefer to make my work rather than talk about it. Also, I don't think 150 minutes of me declining to comment would make for compelling listening.

I am surprised that you didn’t ask John Alexander to participate. Possibly he declined too? ...The question is particularly relevant to what he has said about the 1980 Cash-Landrum UFO case which I talked about recently on The Paracast.

We did interview John Alexander for the film, unfortunately he did not make it to the final cut. But, he does feature on the extras DVD of the UK edition of the film, talking about the Cash-Landrum UFO incident. Which interestingly was one of the topics Rick Doty refused to talk about on camera. We shot over 60 hours of interviews for the film.

 

[Ostension]

If you subtract the human from the paranormal you're left with nothing.

 

[Han]

If you subtract the human from the paranormal you're left with nothing.

What about if you subtract the Paranormal from the human?

 

[Ostension]

What about if you subtract the Paranormal from the human?

 

[Han]

ofc The amazing Randi not to be confused with "The amazingly Randy" of south park fame

 

[Burnt State]

What about if you subtract the Paranormal from the human?

we suddenly are no where near as interesting as we once were. our paranormal elements are creative aspects of the human dimension. of course the paradox is that the paranormal can also overwhelm the human. these are the edges of human experience and such borderlines are very powerful.
cocktails (cocktales?)

i often wonder if different brain structures, or different social contexts, allow for some people to embrace the paranormal without ill effects, while others suffer from debilitating thought patterns, obsessions, construct new belief systems as a consequence of even just simple brushes with the paranormal? but then who am I to speak? obviously i'm here - a minor obsession still unfolding.

 

[Wade]

Very cool thought. If somebody ever did a paper or wrote a book on this subject I'd be all over it.

Just this morning I was thinking about this issue. Understanding some reported ufo contacts cases could be real and realizing many are probably not what if anything can be deduced in taking into account the ultimate impact on the percipient

Some people reportedly achieve a higher consciousness, some start cults, some withdraw into their shell and some are traumatized to the point of irepreably harmed psychologically

Could it be summarized what their psychological potential was and this contact pushed them further into that potential or could it have completely altered them into a 180 degree turn around or both.

Does it mean that the people who were harmed may have been unwell in the first place and may have gotten sicker? Does it mean those that came away in a good way did have a legitimate meaningful contact?
Why is it i can only think and post in rhetorical passages?

Regardless. If these incidents are true it would do away with any idea that these visitors follow any earthly concepts as a prime directive doesn't it? Perhaps even considering the idea or possibility of their existence would lay waste to any idea of a prime directive

 

[Han]

I have said it before and I will say it again, whilst I don't necessarily "believe" in the paranormal, it does give me the willies.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I tend to think perhaps those cases such as Pascagoula, where such trauma was obvious- during the incident and during the police interview- seem like a natural human response, making the account more likely than the "positive contactee" account.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I tend to think perhaps those cases such as Pascagoula, where such trauma was obvious- during the incident and during the police interview- seem like a natural human response, making the account more likely than the "positive contactee" account.

Pascagoula. That case goes in the same draw as The Flatwoods Monster and the Cisco Grove case.

 

[Burnt State]

Pascagoula. That case goes in the same draw as The Flatwoods Monster and the Cisco Grove case.

They fit the same draw for absolute weirdness but I separate them all as far as uniqueness of experience, and witness claims.

How would you rank these as far as quality of witness and likelihood of actual contact with alien entity vs. a magnified internal experience of surreal but perhaps mundane proportions?

 

[George Wingfield]

Yes, indeed --Pascagoula goes --with so many other cases-- into the 7F basket which is where I put Fiction, Fantasy, Fraud, Fakery, False Memory, Folklore and Flapdoodle. It may upset some folk but we should also think very carefully whether Travis Walton's alleged 5-day alien abduction episode in 1975 really belongs in the very same place....

Only recently I was told that Linda Cortile was such a lovely person that her Brooklyn Bridge abductions (Budd Hopkins's 1996 book Witnessed) "must be true". Added to which I was told by the same friend that some good people who had gone into the December 2013 Nvidia crop circle at Chualar, CA (made by John Lundberg & Co.) had experienced such wonderful energies that they were quite certain it was "genuine" and could not have been man-made. Good grief! What is one to think? Is this hoax in itself a hoax and have I got everything inside out???

 

[Burnt State]

Yes, indeed --Pascagoula goes --with so many other cases-- into the 7F basket which is where I put Fiction, Fantasy, Fraud, Fakery, False Memory, Folklore and Flapdoodle. It may upset some folk but we should also think very carefully whether Travis Walton's alleged 5-day alien abduction episode in 1975 really belongs in the very same place....

Only recently I was told that Linda Cortile was such a lovely person that her Brooklyn Bridge abductions (Budd Hopkins's 1996 book Witnessed) "must be true". Added to which I was told by the same friend that some good people who had gone into the December 2013 Nvidia crop circle at Chualar, CA (made by John Lundberg & Co.) had experienced such wonderful energies that they were quite certain it was "genuine" and could not have been man-made. Good grief! What is one to think? Is this hoax in itself a hoax and have I got everything inside out???

Love your 7F's. I think this response works here equally as well:Did Bill Moore essentially create most of the UFO story?

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

George,
The problem in this field is how many books on the subject have been tarnished by the insiders playing the joker and if those who make money off the subject are part of the industry itself promoting the field. Maybe the field needs to completely re-started from scratch and can you really just used scientific tools to study this field as the system itself is controlled by institutions which have already played there part it seems in cat and mouse games in the field. Yes there is some real element which doubters think its all bullshit unless you experience it actions which have not just a visual but also a physical impact on eyewitness who are not even a where of the field at first. Currently, reading M.M which is interesting but does not answer all the theories and more important why would the so called UFO subject be manipulated all around the World unless there is a ounce of truth to the subject or the authorities like wasting money. Also Mr Moore is only one aspect of the UFO its been around before Roswell unless some have blinkers on.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

IMO, I DON'T like this Post! Is this Chester "The Molester" or whom? The Gandolf wannabes within the field that are starting to really give me "paws." Granted, we should give the old guard their due, but then we should be done with it! Let's also unmask the many young, unwashed/un-educated aspiring fools out 2 make a buck—they're a dime-dozen. But it's the older set: the "elder" statesman who are artfully weaving and reweaving the hollow deflective narrative—these are the ones that we need to watch, look & listen to the chinks in the armor... The Dan Acker-roids, Bruce Macca-maybes, Stevens Bassonets and Gears—the list goes on & on & on... I would suggest we trust no one and trust no thing, theory or case... Question everything. If we do this, we will always be ahead of the (so-called) curve and there will be hope for us all. Skeptic and true-believer alike, we owe it to ourselves to be brutally honest with each other... Wouldn't you say, randy Gandolf? *smoochies*

 

[kruggutter]

Yes, indeed --Pascagoula goes --with so many other cases-- into the 7F basket which is where I put Fiction, Fantasy, Fraud, Fakery, False Memory, Folklore and Flapdoodle. It may upset some folk but we should also think very carefully whether Travis Walton's alleged 5-day alien abduction episode in 1975 really belongs in the very same place....

Only recently I was told that Linda Cortile was such a lovely person that her Brooklyn Bridge abductions (Budd Hopkins's 1996 book Witnessed) "must be true". Added to which I was told by the same friend that some good people who had gone into the December 2013 Nvidia crop circle at Chualar, CA (made by John Lundberg & Co.) had experienced such wonderful energies that they were quite certain it was "genuine" and could not have been man-made. Good grief! What is one to think? Is this hoax in itself a hoax and have I got everything inside out???

It's custom to prove something as factual before reflecting on it as a fact, and you haven't proven the Cortile case to be a hoax.

The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website - Home