Science of ufos

[Tyger]

LINK: Clark C. McClelland And The Stargate Chronicles: Real Or A Hoax? | SUPPRESSED INFORMATION

Text: "I have never heard the name Clark C. McClelland until a few hours ago when I was Googling some information about NASA. I ran across this name in a forum which turned up in a search and there was quite a discussion about this guy. Clark C. McClelland claims to be a NASA aerospace engineer who has been involved with all the launches since the Mercury program and knows the astronauts personally. McClelland claims to have seen an alien being on a monitor of the cargo bay, for about a minute and a half, on one of the shuttles during a mission. He claims this alien being was talking to an astronaut in the cargo bay. Supposedly, McClelland has since gone public with what he has learned about the secret missions of the space program and of the aliens who he claims are involved with it.

"In the forum discussion I was reading, the topic was back and forth on whether all of this is true or a hoax created by Clark C. McClelland. As we all know, Wikipedia is fast becoming the new Bible of our age (more on this in a later article) so I searched for McClelland on Wikipedia. My search turned up nothing. Although One can search for any other astronauts and find extensive information on them, absolutely nothing came up on McClelland. Strange isn’t it that such an experienced expert with NASA, the space program, and the astronauts, there is no information available about him except for what he has written about himself all over the internet.

"On McClelland’s website, Stargate Chronicles, he advertises for sale a picture of a moon mission with a piece of 24k gold foil attached to it which he claims was used on a lunar lander. Oh really? I’m sure NASA would just out right give an employee gold foil for a souvenir much less to sell for their own profit. He also has a US presidential patch for sale for $10,000 which he claims former President John F. Kennedy secretly gave to him during a visit to Cape Canaveral on November 17, 1963 right before his death. McClelland claims he quickly placed the patch in his white coveralls before the Secret Service could see it. Once again I find this hard to believe. Why would the President give a Presidential patch to McClelland in the first place. Also, why would such a supposedly important NASA engineer, as McClelland claims he is, be wearing coveralls during a presidential visit unless he was working inside of a controlled environment work area. Normally the paper coveralls are removed upon leaving the work area and a white lab coat replaces it.

"I continued my search for viable information on McClelland and turned up an article 0n another site about Clarion County Pennsylvania genealogy. This was in reference to McClelland’s parents. Naturally he wrote this article as well. The site lists (Ms.) Billie R. McNamara as the “webmistress” from Knoxville, Tennessee. Anyone can write anything on this site.

"It appears that I have to agree with the folks in the forum I was reading that the only place you will find anything about Clark C. McClelland is in the UFO arena, not NASA. I have found no affiliation with NASA, whatsoever, regarding Mr. McClelland. Although Mr. McClelland has apparently been doing this for a long time; his domain, stargate-chronicles.com was registered in 1999. I do have to hand it to him, he has certainly gone to extreme levels to convince people he is who he claims to be. I do find all of this very interesting indeed. On his site, stargatechronicles.com, he has an extensive list of people claims he knows personally, has met, or corresponded with yet his name is mentioned professionally no place except where he himself or someone on his behalf has written."

The above was written a year ago. On the website the patch now goes for half price: $5,500. The gold foil is indeed being hawked. And from the above one can deduce that he is claiming to have been employed from the late 50's/early 60's through the "International Space Station" - that's a whopping 40 or more years or so. He survived all the lay-offs?

We are given none of his bona fides - where did he attend university? He claims to be an aerospace engineer - what are his degrees? No one is purging/controlling his website but him. He could give us his Curriculum Vitae - but he doesn't.

 

[Tyger]

McClelland never claimed to be an astronaut but as I recall he was a test pilot.

The most he claims now is that he is an aerospace engineer.

OOOPS! I just found his bio on his blog. LINK: Clark C. McClelland, ScO | Aerospace Engineer, and ScO, Space Shuttle Fleet, KSC, NASA (ret.)

Text: "In 1958 Clark C. McClelland was assigned to the national space program at Cape Canaveral, Florida, and helped launch or viewed 673 rockets and spacecraft. In addition to being an Aerospace Engineer and Technical Assistant to the Apollo Program Manager during the Apollo moon landings, McClelland and other SpaceCraft Operators did extensive technical checkout of simulated flights and mission objectives of the various shuttles to assure orbital success and the personal safety of the astronauts. Clark McClelland knew many of the astronauts who perished during the Challenger disaster and certainly did all he could to keep each shuttle from such a repeat accident.

"He has held important positions involving such manned projects as Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo lunar landings, Skylab, the Space Shuttle and the Space Station. He was assigned to the cockpit of the Space Shuttle missions as a SpaceCraft Operator (Ground Test Astronaut).

"McClelland’s name is on three commemorative monuments of the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo missions – His name will also be on the Space Shuttle, International Space Station and the Deep Space Missions monuments in the future.[/quote]

If you notice he describes himself as a 'Ground Test Astronaut'. He also makes a statement about where his name will be found so that could be checked out.

McClelland never claimed to be an astronaut but as I recall he was a test pilot. He did indeed work at NASA for many years and evidence of that used to be available on the net. If no one at NASA says there's evidence of his employment there now, why would you be surprised? The same erasing of information has been done regarding other skilled persons in the space program who subsequently leaked information about astronaut sightings in the 70s. Maurice Chatelain was an example, and two others whose names I've forgotten who were involved with Apollo missions around the same time Chatelain was.

Have you personally seen the internet evidence that has been purged, Constance?

He must be quite old now - at least in his mid 80's. He was hired in 1958 - we can assume he was at least around 22 years old at that hire. If he is as well-qualified as he claims, maybe even older - 25? He began his website in (1999) when he would have been in his late 60's - when did he start coming out with his claims? He is actually claiming to have been employed as a 'Ground Test Astronaut' in the 1980's when he would have been in his mid to late 50's. He never claims to be or have been a Test Pilot - something I think he would tout if it were so. If you read his bio one can see that he is careful to suggest but he never makes direct claims.

OOOPS! I just found his Curriculum Vitae (such as it is). From his blog - the guy even claims to be at the Allegheny Observatory. "The initial Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence and other planets in our galaxy, 1948-1958." This would make him far, far older than I have calculated. The guy could be in his 90's now. In 1999 he would have been in his late 80's with this new chronology.

Nope - okay - here is Himself on YouTube - as you watch his series of YouTube vids you will notice that he claims friendship with Werner von Braun and a whole raft of anyone/everyone of any note. Sorry, listening to him, he is simply not credible.

Comment: "He has signed photo's that many people could get their hands on but I really am not questioning their authenticity. I'm questioning his claims and motiations.What was the name of the Astronaut/Crew group he was assigned to and in what year was he there? Most importantly, if he really wanted the world to "know the truth" then why did he wait until he was in financial trouble to reveal his knowledge? Why is he attempting to sell us this knowledge? Why is his clearest message about his finances?"

Very sad - if you listen - there appears to be an accretion to his story as he spins it along.

LINK: Career | Clark C. McClelland, ScO

Career
Education and Training

• Western Pennsylvania Institute of Technology, Pittsburgh, PA Structural Design Technology/Mathematics, 1957 (GPA 4.0).
• Allegheny Observatory of the University of Pittsburgh, PA, Planetary Reseach.
• Buhl Planetarium of Science, Pittsburgh, PA Optical / Telescope Science, Astronomy.
• US Naval Instructors Institute, Philadelphia, PA, Security of Information, etc.
• USAF / USN / USA Missile Systems Command Institute, Cape Canaveral, FL 1958 – 1968
• NASA Space Science Institute / Launch Vehicle / Spacecraft Technical School, Cape Canaveral / Kennedy Space Center, FL
• Brevard Community College, Cocoa, FL 1962 – 63, 1971, 1991 Technical Administration / Communications / Shuttle Airframe & Power Plant – A&P (Certified for KSC Space Shuttle ScO)
• Dun & Bradstreet Corporation, Pittsburgh, PA Preparing / writing technical reports.
• Computer Data Corporation, Pittsburgh, PA PMS – 4 Computer Program Management Systems.

United States Military Service
United States Navy, 8 years, Honorable Discharge. Served concurrently with Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) assignments at Cape Canaveral and Patrick Air Force Base, FL.

Technical Qualifications & Skills

• NASA Astronaut Applicant 1964. Later was assigned as a Space Shuttle ScO.
• Aerospace engineering and structural designer of rocket service towers, launch control facilities, fuel farms, etc.
• Contract administration and facility operations management, KSC, etc.
• Astronomical, aerospace and science lectures (multi-day symposiums) at national universities.
• Municipal Government / City Administration, Titusville, FL Assistant City Manager.
• Designed several Apollo moon landing crew emblems, Apollo 10, Apollo 11 first lunar landing patch for Neil Armstrong.
• U.S. Space Program, Cape Canaveral / Kennedy Space Center, FL
• Participant and witness (to date) of 673 NASA space launchings and military ICBMs, IRBM’s
• Technical Assistant to the Apollo Program Manager (APM), Admiral Roderick O. Middleton, all Apollo lunar landings
• Mechanical engineer / Spacecraft Operator (ScO) GTA Ground Test Astronaut, Space Shuttle Fleet, Kennedy Space Center, Florida.
• Space Shuttle Launch Operations/Mission Technical Coordinator/Specialist, Launch Control Center (Secret LCC). Assisted in launching numerous shuttle missions, rockets, etc.

Special Scientific Research Programs, Organizations and Exploration

• Stellar Parallax Program, Allegheny Observatory. The initial Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence and other planets in our galaxy, 1948-1958.
• Public Relations Director, Florida Association of Marine Explorers (FAME) Treasure Divers, 1968 – 70.
• Member, Peninsular Archaeological Society of Florida.

Affiliations, Awards and Honors

• Exclusive Charter Member of the Missile, Range and Space Pioneers, Cape Canaveral, Kennedy Space Center, FL 1958-1992.
• Gift of the Presidential Seal patch from President, John F. Kennedy, November 16, 1963. Only six days before he went to Dallas, Texas and becoming a legend. McClelland met Kennedy twice at Cape Canaveral and KSC.
• Apollo 8 circumlunar direct participation medal, 1968.
• Apollo 11 actual mission patch, designed by McClelland
• Apollo 11 first lunar landing direct participation medal, 1969.
• Apollo 11 Roll of Honor Medal and his name, Clark C. McClelland was placed on the Apollo Roll of Honor Scroll that was placed below the surface of the moon at Tranquility Base, July 20, 1969.
• NASA Manned Flight Awareness Honoree, medal and certificate, 1969.
• First launch of the Space Shuttle STS-1 Columbia medal, April 4, 1981.
• Received three small United States Flags, “Old Glory” attached to official NASA documents from Astronaut James B. Irwin, Apollo 15 and two other crews, of the Apollo 12 and Apollo 16 missions that flew three flags to the moon and returned them for Clark.
• Research award for observations of 106 Messier objects, Astronomical League of the USA, 1976.
• Honorary member, Lakota Sioux Native American Nation, given the name: Flying Eagle – Manitou by Chief Whitewolf, Lakota-Mandan at a Blood Brother Ceremony, December 1992.
• 32nd degree member of the Ancient Order of F&AM Lodge 301, York Rite, Knight Templar (specializing in the Ark of the Covenant and Holy Grail)
• Key to the City of Titusville, Florida, fighting drug abuse and city service, 1972

The name, Clark C. McClelland, with others, was placed on a compact disc that impacted Comet Tempel 1 during the Deep Impact Mission to the comet that arrived and impacted successfully on the comet, July 4, 2005. This was also an early test of a system to potentially combat a future earth impact of a large asteroid or comet by hitting a bullet with a bullet in deep space, an event that which the survival of the human race will depend.

 

[Tyger]

Finally heard his NASA timeline - 1958 to 1992. The time he spent at the Allegheny Observatory from the age of 8 to about 21 - if I am hearing him correctly - he identifies himself as an astronomer from that time. He overstates and inflates his past importance. He's doing it all over the place.

He says he was involved in or watched 881 missions. (This number varies - and an important caveat is the 'or watched'). Can't collect his retirement - if so he should get some pro bono legal help to sue the government for his pension. Thing is, if he had ever signed a nondisclosure agreement with the government (which he would have done, especially when in the military) part of the agreement would have stated that any 'talking out of school' would have consequences like the loss of pension. The reason his book was not picked up by any publisher is that it's not good reading - no mystery there. This guy is simply not credible.

 

[manxman]

Jim Oberg is well aware of him Tyger, ask yourself this, ''why would James Oberg be trawlng thru youtube vids and trolling the comments'', Nasa's main go to debunker.

jim oberg
One photo in the video shows McClelland (a Pittsburgher, btw) with the two great German rocket scientists Wernher von Braun and Hermann Oberth.

 

[Tyger]

Jim Oberg is well aware of him Tyger, ask yourself this, ''why would James Oberg be trawlng thru youtube vids and trolling the comments'', Nasa's main go to debunker.

jim oberg
One photo in the video shows McClelland (a Pittsburgher, btw) with the two great German rocket scientists Wernher von Braun and Hermann Oberth.

What you have linked to has nothing - no videos - nothing. What was I suppose to see via that link?

 

[manxman]

oopsie.

Your vid led me there, but not directly.

I will find it again tyger, i think mc clelland went/goes alittle over-board these days, but he needs money, that doesnt alter the fact that he made hs 'basic nutshell' claims before nasa striped his pension away, because of his original less flamboyant claims.

 

[Tyger]

I haven't listened to all of this - not in the least. I just picked it up at 20:00 - that's enough.

At 20:50 - Question: Did we go to the moon? His answer, regarding Blacks and Whites, and Celestials - well, this is the individual you are championing. A man who thinks there are space ships the size of Jupiter. He continues to identify himself as an astronomer. His grasp of his past is very loose. This is an ailing man.

 

[manxman]

You dont 'get it' do you tig son, he has been driven over the edge, for his 'stance' 30/35 years ago, he was a proper insder whistle-blower, and to be honest i had all but forgotten him, until yesterday when i read brian dunnings article about him in skeptoid, dunning has a lot of respect for him, and that surprised me, and relit my interest temporarily.

It also makes me see dunnig in a slightly different light, it was dunning that points out the sanitisation of mcclellands story, and even now you still have Oberg muddying the waters in the youtube comments section, i mean ffs Oberg himself trolling youtube, he is one of the original committee members along with klass, do you think klass if he were alive today would be trolling the youtube comments section.

That shows me how serious Oberg takes his claims.
I might even read a few more of dunnings articles now, just to get a 'feel' for him.

 

[Tyger]

You dont 'get it' do you tig son, he has been driven over the edge, for his 'stance' 20/25 years ago, he was a proper insder whistle-blower, and to be honest i had all but forgotten him, until yesterday when i read brian dunnings article about him in skeptoid, dunning has a lot of respect for him, and that surprised me, and relit my interest temporarily.

It also makes me see dunnig in a slightly different light, it was dunning that points out the sanitisation of mcclellands story, and even now you still have Oberg muddying the waters in the youtube comments section, i mean ffs Oberg himself trolling youtube.

Brian Dunning of Skeptoid? This fella - Brian Dunning, Host of Skeptoid Podcast, Sentenced to 15 Months in Prison for Scamming eBay. August 2014.

Keep in mind front and center that the UFO gig is a money-maker if angled right. There are some very smart users out there.

LINK: Brian Dunning, Host of Skeptoid Podcast, Sentenced to 15 Months in Prison for Scamming eBay

Dunning's self defense -
LINK: A Critical Analysis of Brian Dunning’s Explanation | Skepchick

 

[manxman]

I know his criminal convictions, ive used them as ammunition debating pinty and other debunkers, i have no love for debunkers, that's why i was surprised with dunnings skeptiod article.

And lets not be forgetting the fraud he was involved in, was a pretty clever one.

FBI — Laguna Niguel Man Pleads Guilty to Defrauding eBay

I will be honest with you, i would serve a year for 5 million.

 

[Tyger]

I will be honest with you, i would serve a year for 5 million.

You're easily bought. Five million would be gone in a twinkling. Nothing less than $250 million.

 

[Tyger]

And lets not be forgetting the fraud he was involved in, was a pretty clever one.

No one is saying the UFO 'community' isn't crawling with very smart folks. Some are out to make a living and that's what very smart folks do, and not so smart folks do. We all get by as best we can. But it's what clutters up the topic and is one of the reasons ufology cannot be taken seriously by most people - the charlatanism and money-grabbing. It's the same with something like psychism and the paranormal - there is so much nonsense afoot that most intelligent people throw the baby out with the bath water. (It's also what's diminished science and the pursuit of science.)

But there is also the suggestion that what he was doing was purposeful to break the Terms of Usage of eBay. Makes his purpose 'noble' perhaps?

 

[manxman]

No one is saying the UFO 'community' isn't crawling with very smart folks. Some are out to make a living and that's what very smart folks do, and not so smart folks do. We all get by as best we can. But it's what clutters up the topic and is one of the reasons ufology cannot be taken seriously by most people - the charlatanism and money-grabbing. It's the same with something like psychism and the paranormal - there is so much nonsense afoot that most intelligent people throw the baby out with the bath water. (It's also what's diminished science and the pursuit of science.)

But there is also the suggestion that what he was doing was purposeful to break the Terms of Usage of eBay. Makes his purpose 'noble' perhaps?

B1 throwing the baby is what you have done with mcclelland, because he is easily ridiculed now.

B2 spin/bullshit, isnt that what all debunkers do, skepchic has the measure of it.

 

[Constance]

The most he claims now is that he is an aerospace engineer.

OOOPS! I just found his bio on his blog. LINK: Clark C. McClelland, ScO | Aerospace Engineer, and ScO, Space Shuttle Fleet, KSC, NASA (ret.)

Text: "In 1958 Clark C. McClelland was assigned to the national space program at Cape Canaveral, Florida, and helped launch or viewed 673 rockets and spacecraft. In addition to being an Aerospace Engineer and Technical Assistant to the Apollo Program Manager during the Apollo moon landings, McClelland and other SpaceCraft Operators did extensive technical checkout of simulated flights and mission objectives of the various shuttles to assure orbital success and the personal safety of the astronauts. Clark McClelland knew many of the astronauts who perished during the Challenger disaster and certainly did all he could to keep each shuttle from such a repeat accident.

"He has held important positions involving such manned projects as Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo lunar landings, Skylab, the Space Shuttle and the Space Station. He was assigned to the cockpit of the Space Shuttle missions as a SpaceCraft Operator (Ground Test Astronaut).

"McClelland’s name is on three commemorative monuments of the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo missions – His name will also be on the Space Shuttle, International Space Station and the Deep Space Missions monuments in the future.

If you notice he describes himself as a 'Ground Test Astronaut'. He also makes a statement about where his name will be found so that could be checked out.

Might be a good idea to find out what a ground test astronaut does.

Have you personally seen the internet evidence that has been purged, Constance?

I've seen enough of what he has said and what others who knew him at NASA have said about him to take him and his whistle-blowing seriously.

He must be quite old now - at least in his mid 80's. He was hired in 1958 - we can assume he was at least around 22 years old at that hire. If he is as well-qualified as he claims, maybe even older - 25? He began his website in (1999) when he would have been in his late 60's - when did he start coming out with his claims? He is actually claiming to have been employed as a 'Ground Test Astronaut' in the 1980's when he would have been in his mid to late 50's. He never claims to be or have been a Test Pilot - something I think he would tout if it were so. If you read his bio one can see that he is careful to suggest but he never makes direct claims.

OOOPS! I just found his Curriculum Vitae (such as it is). From his blog - the guy even claims to be at the Allegheny Observatory. "The initial Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence and other planets in our galaxy, 1948-1958." This would make him far, far older than I have calculated. The guy could be in his 90's now. In 1999 he would have been in his late 80's with this new chronology.

Nope - okay - here is Himself on YouTube - as you watch his series of YouTube vids you will notice that he claims friendship with Werner von Braun and a whole raft of anyone/everyone of any note. Sorry, listening to him, he is simply not credible.

Comment: "He has signed photo's that many people could get their hands on but I really am not questioning their authenticity. I'm questioning his claims and motiations.What was the name of the Astronaut/Crew group he was assigned to and in what year was he there? Most importantly, if he really wanted the world to "know the truth" then why did he wait until he was in financial trouble to reveal his knowledge? Why is he attempting to sell us this knowledge? Why is his clearest message about his finances?"

Very sad - if you listen - there appears to be an accretion to his story as he spins it along.

LINK: Career | Clark C. McClelland, ScO

Career
Education and Training

• Western Pennsylvania Institute of Technology, Pittsburgh, PA Structural Design Technology/Mathematics, 1957 (GPA 4.0).
• Allegheny Observatory of the University of Pittsburgh, PA, Planetary Reseach.
• Buhl Planetarium of Science, Pittsburgh, PA Optical / Telescope Science, Astronomy.
• US Naval Instructors Institute, Philadelphia, PA, Security of Information, etc.
• USAF / USN / USA Missile Systems Command Institute, Cape Canaveral, FL 1958 – 1968
• NASA Space Science Institute / Launch Vehicle / Spacecraft Technical School, Cape Canaveral / Kennedy Space Center, FL
• Brevard Community College, Cocoa, FL 1962 – 63, 1971, 1991 Technical Administration / Communications / Shuttle Airframe & Power Plant – A&P (Certified for KSC Space Shuttle ScO)
• Dun & Bradstreet Corporation, Pittsburgh, PA Preparing / writing technical reports.
• Computer Data Corporation, Pittsburgh, PA PMS – 4 Computer Program Management Systems.

United States Military Service
United States Navy, 8 years, Honorable Discharge. Served concurrently with Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) assignments at Cape Canaveral and Patrick Air Force Base, FL.

Technical Qualifications & Skills

• NASA Astronaut Applicant 1964. Later was assigned as a Space Shuttle ScO.
• Aerospace engineering and structural designer of rocket service towers, launch control facilities, fuel farms, etc.
• Contract administration and facility operations management, KSC, etc.
• Astronomical, aerospace and science lectures (multi-day symposiums) at national universities.
• Municipal Government / City Administration, Titusville, FL Assistant City Manager.
• Designed several Apollo moon landing crew emblems, Apollo 10, Apollo 11 first lunar landing patch for Neil Armstrong.
• U.S. Space Program, Cape Canaveral / Kennedy Space Center, FL
• Participant and witness (to date) of 673 NASA space launchings and military ICBMs, IRBM’s
• Technical Assistant to the Apollo Program Manager (APM), Admiral Roderick O. Middleton, all Apollo lunar landings
• Mechanical engineer / Spacecraft Operator (ScO) GTA Ground Test Astronaut, Space Shuttle Fleet, Kennedy Space Center, Florida.
• Space Shuttle Launch Operations/Mission Technical Coordinator/Specialist, Launch Control Center (Secret LCC). Assisted in launching numerous shuttle missions, rockets, etc.

Special Scientific Research Programs, Organizations and Exploration

• Stellar Parallax Program, Allegheny Observatory. The initial Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence and other planets in our galaxy, 1948-1958.
• Public Relations Director, Florida Association of Marine Explorers (FAME) Treasure Divers, 1968 – 70.
• Member, Peninsular Archaeological Society of Florida.

Affiliations, Awards and Honors

• Exclusive Charter Member of the Missile, Range and Space Pioneers, Cape Canaveral, Kennedy Space Center, FL 1958-1992.
• Gift of the Presidential Seal patch from President, John F. Kennedy, November 16, 1963. Only six days before he went to Dallas, Texas and becoming a legend. McClelland met Kennedy twice at Cape Canaveral and KSC.
• Apollo 8 circumlunar direct participation medal, 1968.
• Apollo 11 actual mission patch, designed by McClelland
• Apollo 11 first lunar landing direct participation medal, 1969.
• Apollo 11 Roll of Honor Medal and his name, Clark C. McClelland was placed on the Apollo Roll of Honor Scroll that was placed below the surface of the moon at Tranquility Base, July 20, 1969.
• NASA Manned Flight Awareness Honoree, medal and certificate, 1969.
• First launch of the Space Shuttle STS-1 Columbia medal, April 4, 1981.
• Received three small United States Flags, “Old Glory” attached to official NASA documents from Astronaut James B. Irwin, Apollo 15 and two other crews, of the Apollo 12 and Apollo 16 missions that flew three flags to the moon and returned them for Clark.
• Research award for observations of 106 Messier objects, Astronomical League of the USA, 1976.
• Honorary member, Lakota Sioux Native American Nation, given the name: Flying Eagle – Manitou by Chief Whitewolf, Lakota-Mandan at a Blood Brother Ceremony, December 1992.
• 32nd degree member of the Ancient Order of F&AM Lodge 301, York Rite, Knight Templar (specializing in the Ark of the Covenant and Holy Grail)
• Key to the City of Titusville, Florida, fighting drug abuse and city service, 1972

The name, Clark C. McClelland, with others, was placed on a compact disc that impacted Comet Tempel 1 during the Deep Impact Mission to the comet that arrived and impacted successfully on the comet, July 4, 2005. This was also an early test of a system to potentially combat a future earth impact of a large asteroid or comet by hitting a bullet with a bullet in deep space, an event that which the survival of the human race will depend.

There's a lot of hard data there, Tyger. If you still think he's made all of it up, you could contact (try to contact) some of the people he worked with at NASA over forty years (including astronauts flying a number of Apollo missions) and worked for at NASA (e.g., he names his direct supervisor at NASA). Be careful not to irritate NASA representatives too much though, or you might find yourself increasingly disappeared too.

I've gotta add (and please don't take this as a personal criticism) that I have a great deal more trouble taking your occult claims and revelations seriously than I do the claims of McClelland and other whistleblowers from the space program, NORAD, and the military and alphabet agencies involved in nonpublic ufo research since 1947.

I have a feeling that you really really really don't want ufo and alien encounter reports to be true, don't want to think it's possible that another species might be mining materials on the moon and might even co-exist with our species on earth. If that's the case, don't read the ufo history and research comprehensively. But if you really do want to find out how seriously to take this subject, spend the necessary year or two reading that history and research. Because attempting to decide whether a percentage of ufos are 'real' and support the ETH or not on the basis of internet chat concerning a handful of cases and individuals will not answer your question.

 

[manxman]

The voice of reason and diplomacy has spoken, unlike me Constance has all her ducks lined up, i just dip in and out, and memory is a funny thing.

ps
If you really want to get an idea of how much the net has been sanitised all things ufo nasa related.
Heres alittle test.

Go to above top secret forum, search nasa related topics shuttle footage etc, old threads/topic's.
Read them, and click on the nasa related links, 9 out of 10 will be dead, you can then use the wayback machine to see what they didnt want you to find/see again, also take note of the frequent complaints to Oberg about how quick the links die after they are posted there.

It dawned on me 5/6 years ago, that Oberg is only there to challenge claims, goad them, then when they produce any proof from nasa archive's it dissapears within hours, he is just there to mop up.

 

[Tyger]

Might be a good idea to find out what a ground test astronaut does.

He tells us what they do - they check out the systems on the ground.

I've seen enough of what he has said and what others who knew him at NASA have said about him to take him and his whistle-blowing seriously.

Okay. My question stands, though.

There's a lot of hard data there, Tyger. If you still think he's made all of it up, you could contact (try to contact) some of the people he worked with at NASA over forty years (including astronauts flying a number of Apollo missions) and worked for at NASA (e.g., he names his direct supervisor at NASA). Be careful not to irritate NASA representatives too much though, or you might find yourself increasingly disappeared too.

Funny. Hard data? I don't see it. But if you do, go with it.

I've gotta add (and please don't take this as a personal criticism) that I have a great deal more trouble taking your occult claims and revelations seriously than I do the claims of McClelland and other whistleblowers from the space program, NORAD, and the military and alphabet agencies involved in nonpublic ufo research since 1947.

Wtf? Sheesh - is this what it's all been about? I claim nothing and I certainly don't have revelations. For pity's sake, Constance. What a joke. Take care - because it's starting to look like you are taking yourself too seriously. One of the problems with too much headiness.

I have a feeling that you really really really don't want ufo and alien encounter reports to be true

Your feeling would be false. You are proving a tad too sensitive. These are all just scenarios - not ultimate truth. I'm a Science Fiction Fan. I enjoy the play of ideas but I don't accept at face value any claim, that is all. I try to firmly shake out all the 'evidence'. There is too much gullibility. There is too much true-believer nonsense afoot. Genuinely impossible scenarios are believed wholesale. It's mind-numbing.

[you] don't want to think it's possible that another species might be mining materials on the moon and might even co-exist with our species on earth.

I don't "want" not to think anything, possible or impossible, because in my daily life I don't think about it. Confronted with the ideas I look for solid evidence. I see none, only a great deal of wishful thinking. As for alien species among us I've had myself misidentified in that manner (a tad jarring) which leads me to believe that wishful thinking is afoot with a great deal of it. What is true - not just a fervent hope - not just an exciting romantic idea. (I say this as I sit and watch re-runs of ST:TNG).

If that's the case, don't read the ufo history and research comprehensively. But if you really do want to find out how seriously to take this subject, spend the necessary year or two reading that history and research. Because attempting to decide whether a percentage of ufos are 'real' and support the ETH or not on the basis of internet chat concerning a handful of cases and individuals will not answer your question.

Unlikely I will so read. A year or two? No. You also misunderstand, a great deal of the history referenced here I actually lived. It was around the 80's that I lost track of stuff - as I was interested in other things. I recall some of the stuff in the media at the time, like the Phoenix Lights - I was living in New Mexico at the time. But it's hardly important.

Anyway, Constance, I have fun posting and reading on-the-run. You have different motivations being on this chat site. I hope you are having fun - though I think you give evidence that suggests to me that you have tipped into the realm of fanaticism of a kind, a brittle intolerance. Where's your easy-going sense-of-humor? I would say no avenue of thinking - be it spiritual, scientific, political, economic - is worth that kind of aggressive adherence. It's about community - about getting along.

 

[Tyger]

The voice of reason and diplomacy has spoken, unlike me Constance has all her ducks lined up, i just dip in and out, and memory is a funny thing.

Ha!

 

[Constance]

Manx: "It dawned on me 5/6 years ago, that Oberg is only there to challenge claims, goad them, then when they produce any proof from nasa archive's it dissapears within hours, he is just there to mop up."

Thank you for that insight!!! It finally makes sense to me why he spends so much time haunting forums. I'd thought he was just obsessive-compulsive or well-enough-paid to jump in with debunkery on multiple ufo forums whenever NASA ufo evidence was leaked. I never thought far enough to realize that debunking and ridiculing were only half his job; the other half was to get other technicians in service to the coverup to follow behind him and delete all the links leading back to evidence either leaked or discovered by photo and video analysts. He even carried his debunking efforts to a small, little-known forum I was a member of for 15 years. He is particularly obnoxious to anyone who disagrees with him. He inhibited me for awhile, but I eventually gave back to him as good as I got, for a number of years. May he rot.

 

[Constance]

He tells us what they do - they check out the systems on the ground.

Okay. My question stands, though.

Funny. Hard data? I don't see it. But if you do, go with it.

Wtf? Sheesh - is this what it's all been about? I claim nothing and I certainly don't have revelations. For pity's sake, Constance. What a joke. Take care - because it's starting to look like you are taking yourself too seriously. One of the problems with too much headiness.

Your feeling would be false. You are proving a tad too sensitive. These are all just scenarios - not ultimate truth. I'm a Science Fiction Fan. I enjoy the play of ideas but I don't accept at face value any claim, that is all. I try to firmly shake out all the 'evidence'. There is too much gullibility. There is too much true-believer nonsense afoot. Genuinely impossible scenarios are believed wholesale. It's mind-numbing.

I don't "want" not to think anything, possible or impossible, because in my daily life I don't think about it. Confronted with the ideas I look for solid evidence. I see none, only a great deal of wishful thinking. As for alien species among us I've had myself misidentified in that manner (a tad jarring) which leads me to believe that wishful thinking is afoot with a great deal of it. What is true - not just a fervent hope - not just an exciting romantic idea. (I say this as I sit and watch re-runs of ST:TNG).

Unlikely I will so read. A year or two? No. You also misunderstand, a great deal of the history referenced here I actually lived. It was around the 80's that I lost track of stuff - as I was interested in other things. I recall some of the stuff in the media at the time, like the Phoenix Lights - I was living in New Mexico at the time. But it's hardly important.

Anyway, Constance, I have fun posting and reading on-the-run. You have different motivations being on this chat site. I hope you are having fun - though I think you give evidence that suggests to me that you have tipped into the realm of fanaticism of a kind, a brittle intolerance. Where's your easy-going sense-of-humor? I would say no avenue of thinking - be it spiritual, scientific, political, economic - is worth that kind of aggressive adherence. It's about community - about getting along.

Oh dear. You did take what I said about the lack of evidence for the occult personally. I apologize if you were offended. Would you like me to delete that sentence from my post?

 

[manxman]

Constance I will find a post i made there to him, after i burst his bubble in the sts75 thread, it took me hours upon hours of reading shuttle technical logs, and then bingo, i tripped over the data explaining how sts 75 and sts 76, or was it sts 74, im not quite sure now, anyway the potable water piping was rejigged, and a splitter valve was added.
The result being all spare potable water, plus waste water was redirected to the fez experiment's, there were only 2 side dumps during the whole mission, the rest was vented thru the rear fes [flash evaporator system ]

Now i know the above makes little sense to you Constance, but believe me it blew him out of the water, and he conceeded that i was right.
within the hour the link was dead, see it was a pivitol point to his whole debunk.

Well i lost the my head and went ape-shit on him, it doesnt make for polite reading, but it proves beyond doubt that he was mopping up, aswell as nasa monitoring traffic, because it was just an ordinary techical shuttle manual that had probably been readable for years..