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Science of ufos


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C

Constance

Paranormal Adept
There is a fascinating discussion of current scientific theories and experiments concerning ufo physics in the comments page following a recent blog by Kevin Randle (which is also fascinating reading on another subject: the likelihood of several insider committees of government and military agencies gathering and analyzing ufo data before Roswell). The scientific discussion begins about three-fifths down the page of comments and primarily involves an exchange by posters designated as 'Larry' and 'Anthony Mugan'.

Blogger: A Different Perspective - Post a Comment
 
I found this interesting - the last bolding is my emphasis -

TEXT: "Larry said...Anthony: If the US national security apparatus really did come into possession of crashed flying disk parts in 1947 (or, as I think likely, a few years earlier) I think it is self-evident they would have used the same game plan that had proven so effective in developing nuclear weapons, at about the same time. This is because the strategic considerations would have been about the same. As soon as Uranium nuclear fission was announced in late 1938-early 1939, it was evident to those with the appropriate intelligence, that a door was opened to a new reality. It was widely thought that the first party to get through the door would very likely possess an unanswerable military advantage that could terminate the war in favor of whichever side possessed it and impose a new world order of political power. (And I would say that judgment was basically correct.) From that consideration it immediately followed that it was necessary to not only develop the weapon, but do so before anyone else. So, heroic expenditures of the highest class scientific and engineering effort were justified. Once it was realized that the development path of a bomb had to go through certain technological gates (e.g., Uranium isotope separation; Plutonium production in breeder reactors) it was self-evident that those gates were actually high value targets for sabotage. So extreme secrecy of operations was justified in order to avoid such sabotage while at the same time, attempted sabotage of the opponent’s critical targets was highly incentivized (as happened, for example at the Norsk Hydro plant in Telemark, Norway).

All of those considerations would have applied equally as well to the serendipitous recovery of an unconventional flying disk in 1947 as to the serendipitous discovery of Uranium fission in 1938 and, to me, explains the intensity and duration of the secrecy around the subject.

There is one crucial difference, however. When Uranium fission was discovered, its functioning was entirely inside the bounds of scientific knowledge of the time and the ability to experiment with it was entirely inside the bounds of the technology of the time. Within six months after the discovery of Uranium fission was published, Enrico Fermi was already designing his first reactor capable of sustaining a controlled chain reaction, and Robert Oppenheimer had convened an informal summer study group at his Berkeley lab in which they worked out all the basic parameters involved in building a bomb (how much Uranium was needed, how fast it had to be assembled, how much energy it would yield, etc.) As we have discussed before, in the context of the Roswell “memory foil” I think a flying disk utilizing General Relativity (if that’s what they’re doing) would be at least one and possibly two or more scientific and technology revolutions ahead of where we were in 1947. Immediate results would not be, and probably were not expected.

Over the years I have developed my own set of private informants whose identities I protect. One of them recently told me he worked on an experiment connected to the Large Hadron Collider, and has come upon specific and concrete indications leading him to believe that his project is covertly receiving deep black funding in order to help understand the theoretical basis for how UFOs work. I have no particular reason to disbelieve him and this would indicate that—70 years later—we are still trying to fill in the scientific understanding, and still making progress."



I started another thread recently floating the question as to why the US stopped it's plans to build a base on the moon. This is wildly speculative - but if in fact there is research going forward on a propulsion system better than what we now have to break-away from earth's gravity, I could see postponing the moon bases until that technology is successfully created. Yet the secrecy is still a problem for me. More so because science advances in an open forum - one never knows when or from where an insight might come from. Secrecy just gums up the whole scientific process.
 
I think the conversation is very interesting. I am having trouble with the hear-say aspect of the informant. The employer-boss' letting slip all this is a bit suspect - not that he was lying or the informant was lying or anyone was lying - not at all - just a lot of 'human nature' possible in between the lines there. There is plenty of speculation at DOE labs as much as any work place.

TEXT: "Larry said...

My friend gave me this information in a short conversation very recently, and the conversation got interrupted. Then he moved out of the area, from the West Coast to the East Coast. I have not been able to resume the conversation yet, but I am trying to set up a time with him as soon as I can.

My understanding is that all his beliefs around this are based on information he was given explicitly, but informally by his employer. He is not a "UFO person" by any definition of the word. No Stan Friedman, no Timothy Good, no "conspiracy community" connection at all. I would be surprised if he ever read a UFO book in his life.

He is a mechanical technician type, hired to build high energy physics experimental detectors, by the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory. His educational background is such that he never would have made a connection between UFOs and high energy physics unless someone with a superior educational background made the connection for him. Since I have worked on nuclear and high energy physics projects in the past that's actually one of the reasons he contacted me.

Funding was from USA, flowing through (I believe) Department of Energy. All the member nations of the LHC make contributions to the overall project based on a no-exchange-of-funds basis. So, if France, for example, contributes a hardware element to LHC, they pay for it. In this case, the US is contributing a detector array, so the US is paying for it. This gives someone--behind the curtain--the opportunity to make sure the detectors are designed in such a way as to return the desired data."


 
Here are the responses. When someone mentions that they were afraid to touch the UFO because they had a fear of being electrocuted I wonder why they didn't then throw something at the object - like some pebbles - even grass - whatever is handy to see what happens.

TEXT: "Dave said...

Interesting discussion about the LHC since my mention of micro black holes possibly being involved with the ufo phenomenon in my last post. The LHC has the capacity to create them and this fact has created a stir relating to what happens after they're created--do they fall through the planet, oscillating to the center of the Earth and begin consuming it from the inside out?

I was going to mention this as a follow-up to my last post but the discussion veered into a different direction. In the Robert Schroeder book, "Solving the UFO Enigma", he theorizes that the propulsion of ufos involves the creation and control of micro black holes and that a device similar to the LHC is in fact the mechanism.

If so, all we have to do is 1) miniaturize an LHC to the size of a large saucer, and 2) devise and engineer an appropriate power plant.

While this may seem a nigh impossible task, let's remember how quickly computer technology evolved in the last 60 years. Perhaps the bigger obstacle would be engineering the power necessary to operate it.

Reports of Faraday rings around craft (Stanford, Meessen) in the atmosphere indicate extremely powerful magnetic fields and these might only be by-products of the source. Other indications from Ray Stanford's early instrumented data shows that the light output alone from a cigar-type object exceeded the electric output of major cities, again these may only be by-products of the propulsion devices.

I note that in the Socorro and the Rendlesham events, the trace evidence of the landing pods indicated a very heavy device.

These observations of high energy output clues point in the direction of nuclear or fusion power at least."


 
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Tyger said:
I started another thread recently floating the question as to why the US stopped it's plans to build a base on the moon. This is wildly speculative - but if in fact there is research going forward on a propulsion system better than what we now have to break-away from earth's gravity, I could see postponing the moon bases until that technology is successfully created. Yet the secrecy is still a problem for me. More so because science advances in an open forum - one never knows when or from where an insight might come from. Secrecy just gums up the whole scientific process.
Click to expand...

Yes Tyger i agree, but when you are talking about advance's that are total 'scene' changers, like fission and the atomic bomb, the country that make's the break through first, rule's the world, these advance's are first and foremost applied militarily, only when everyone else catches up, or the tech is over-taken militarily does the new technology filter it's way into civilian project's.
This is why people have 'accidents' and 'heart attack's' when they hear or see something they werent supposed to.
 
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LINK: NASA Brings Scientists & Theologians Together To Prepare World For Extraterrestrial Contact | Collective-Evolution


Dunno......


TEXT: "Published on Sep 23, 2014
A few days ago, NASA tried closing the gap between life on Earth and the possibilities of life elsewhere. The space agency and the Library of Congress (image below left) brought together scientists, historians, philosophers and theologians from around the world for a two-day symposium, "Preparing For Discovery." Their agenda: To explore how we prepare for the inevitable discovery of extraterrestrial life, be it simple microbial organisms or intelligent beings.

"We're looking at all scenarios about finding life. If you find microbes, that's one thing. If you find intelligence, it's another. And if they communicate, it's something else, and depending on what they say, it's something else!" said astronomer, symposium organizer and former chief NASA historian, Steven J. Dick.

"The idea is not to wait until we make a discovery, but to try and prepare the public for what the implications might be when such a discovery is made," Dick told The Huffington Post. "I think the reason that NASA is backing this is because of all the recent activity in the discovery of exoplanets and the advances in astrobiology in general.

"People just consider it much more likely now that we're going to find something -- probably microbes first and maybe intelligence later," he added. "The driving force behind this is from a scientific point of view that it seems much more likely now that we are going to find life at some point in the future."

By Lee Speigel
huffingtonpost.com
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09...
 
manxman said:
Your Funny Tyger.

Its as if a light has just come on, with you.
Click to expand...

Not really - just a day off from obligations. Time on my hands - that'll do it. :cool:

Also, just having some fun with ideas that I don't really 'believe' but it's fun to entertain them. My Science Fiction Fan-Heart loves all the permutations possible - though right now I am keenly interested in the Global Climate shift ;) - that is an area one can really work within. Lots of solutions are needed. Aliens are pretty far down the list of 'imminent dangers'.
 
I thought you have had a day of revelations.

And the sooner you get over all the global warming nonsense, the freer you mind will become.

Why on earth would you think ET is a danger, if they were we would have been toast decades ago.



I, Clark C. McClelland, former ScO, Space Shuttle Fleet, personally observed an 8 to 9 foot tall ET on my 27 inch video monitors while on duty in the Kennedy Space Center, Launch Control Center (LCC). The ET was standing upright in the Space Shuttle Payload Bay having a discussion with TWO tethered US NASA Astronauts! I also observed on my monitors, the spacecraft of the ET as it was in a stabilized, safe orbit to the rear of the Space Shuttle main engine pods. I observed this incident for about one minute and seven seconds. Plenty of time to memorize all that I was observing. IT WAS AN ET and Alien Star Ship!

A friend of mine later contacted me and said that this person had also observed an 8 to 9 foot tall ET INSIDE the SPACE SHUTTLE CREW COMPARTMENT! Yes, inside OUR Shuttle! BOTH missions were DoD (Pentagon) TOP SECRET (TS) encounters.

With my verifiable background, there is no Federal Government Agency that can say I am crazy!

I am a SPACE PROGRAM PIONEER. I assisted in launching the Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Apollo-Soyuz, Skylab, Space Shuttle, Deep Space Missions, and the International Space Station.

I have received character substantiation from: Walter Cronkite, Major Donald Keyhoe, NICAP Director, Richard Hall, Assistant Director of NICAP, Astronomer, Dr. J. Allen Hynek, etc.

I have launched or witnessed 650 missions, so far in my life.


I am an expert in visually recognizing any crafts created and flown by the human race, whether secret or otherwise! I know an ET and Alien craft when I see them.
 
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manxman said:
I, Clark C. McClelland, former ScO, Space Shuttle Fleet, personally observed an 8 to 9 foot tall ET on my 27 inch video monitors while on duty in the Kennedy Space Center, Launch Control Center (LCC). The ET was standing upright in the Space Shuttle Payload Bay having a discussion with TWO tethered US NASA Astronauts! I also observed on my monitors, the spacecraft of the ET as it was in a stabilized, safe orbit to the rear of the Space Shuttle main engine pods. I observed this incident for about one minute and seven seconds. Plenty of time to memorize all that I was observing. IT WAS AN ET and Alien Star Ship!

A friend of mine later contacted me and said that this person had also observed an 8 to 9 foot tall ET INSIDE the SPACE SHUTTLE CREW COMPARTMENT! Yes, inside OUR Shuttle! BOTH missions were DoD (Pentagon) TOP SECRET (TS) encounters.

With my verifiable background, there is no Federal Government Agency that can say I am crazy!

I am a SPACE PROGRAM PIONEER. I assisted in launching the Mercury, Gemini, Apollo, Apollo-Soyuz, Skylab, Space Shuttle, Deep Space Missions, and the International Space Station.

I have received character substantiation from: Walter Cronkite, Major Donald Keyhoe, NICAP Director, Richard Hall, Assistant Director of NICAP, Astronomer, Dr. J. Allen Hynek, etc.

I have launched or witnessed 650 missions, so far in my life.

I am an expert in visually recognizing any crafts created and flown by the human race, whether secret or otherwise! I know an ET and Alien craft when I see them.
Click to expand...

Manxman, because of the way you post, it is unclear when you are posting quotes - and where those quotes come from. I assume that you are not the above cited/quoted Clark C. McClelland - or are you? "character substantiation"? Hmmm, there is something amiss with this 'quote', methinks.

P.S. "With my verifiable background, there is no Federal Government Agency that can say I am crazy!" Hey, there is crazy and there is crazy. But the entire 'quote' reads strangely - not like anyone I know would talk from that industry.

Sooooo, I did a google.......

LINK: Clark C. McClelland hoax, page 1

Text: Posted October 28th, 2008: "There has been alot of talk about a Clark C. McClelland, allegedly a former ScO backing up stories of ETs in space. Why is it if you google his name it only comes up on UFO websites, or postings in forums where the topic of the post was UFOs?? There are no mentions of him on NASAs site, no mention of things hes done at NASA. You google any other astronauts name and you get hits back of particular missions they were on, things they did at NASA, etc.. not this guy. He isnt even mentioned ever in the astronaut section of NASA.gov and I couldnt find any listing for him on previous shuttle crews. You can go to NASAs site and look at the crews of previous shuttle missions. guess who isn't there? Therefore I submit that Clark C. McClelland is not even really a astronaut, but a fraud."

The things I learn on this chat site.
 
McClelland never claimed to be an astronaut but as I recall he was a test pilot. He did indeed work at NASA for many years and evidence of that used to be available on the net. If no one at NASA says there's evidence of his employment there now, why would you be surprised? The same erasing of information has been done regarding other skilled persons in the space program who subsequently leaked information about astronaut sightings in the 70s. Maurice Chatelain was an example, and two others whose names I've forgotten who were involved with Apollo missions around the same time Chatelain was.
 
The sanitisation of the net nasa and ET wise has been literally a massive one, i am going to compare the net 10 yrs ago, to my lifetime.

When i was a boy, i would sit down at the rushen abbey, and watch the holiday makers in their dozens milling about, and the swallows, 100s of swallows, all lined up on the old telegraph lines.

This summer theres the odd holiday maker around, and zero swallows, i havent seen a single swallow all summer.
The new generation, my niece, she doesnt miss the swallows theyve never been apart of her life and childhood, she doesnt expect to see them there, but for me they are a great loss to the big picture.

The net is the same, 10/15 years ago it was all there, the good the bad and the ugly, now a new net for a new generation
 
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manxman said:
When i was a boy, i would sit down at the rushen abbey, and watch the holiday makers in their dozens milling about, and the swallows, 100s of swallows, all lined up on the old telegraph lines.

This summer theres the odd holiday maker around, and zero swallows, i havent seen a single swallow all summer.
The new generation, my niece, she doesnt miss the swallows theyve never been apart of her life and childhood, she doesnt expect to see them there, but for me they are a great loss to the big picture.
Click to expand...

That's Global Warming for ya! ;)

Seriously, though, do they know what has caused the changes in the swallows whereabouts? Is it connected to the people no longer being around? Did the holiday makers feed the swallows?


The sanitization of the net nasa and ET wise has been literally a massive one, i am going to compare the net 10 yrs ago, to my lifetime. [...] The net is the same, 10/15 years ago it was all there, the good the bad and the ugly, now a new net for a new generation
Click to expand...

Is the WayBack Machine sanitized as well?

I would think newspaper archives would have newspapers with the stories, but that would take massive amounts of digging, time and patience, with no monetary pay-off. Not many can do that kind of research anymore.
 
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