Ray Stanford — May 18, 2014 Episode

[marduk]

I also favour this utopic vision of ET as most observations, outside of AP probing, appears in the guise of friendly, indifferent or ticksterish behaviours. Just a couple of compadres in coveralls out in the desert, and sporting sparkly threads, gathering some soil samples and water, freaking out the locals in the middle of the night on isolated highways etc.

Really, outside of those supposedly deadly Brazilian light beams sucking our blood the whole phenomenon's been more the subject of polite and mostly strange actions, but that's probably just cross species cultural confusion.

I think a lot of it could also be explained by a culture made up of individuals who want to contact us only on the level of individuals, not our society in general.

Which is part of what I think is happening. They seem disinterested in our society as a whole, but interested in certain individuals at certain times.

 

[Constance]

Robert Hastings has a documentary in progress concerning ufo intrusions at nuclear weapons bases:

"Three Former U.S. Air Force ICBM Launch Officers Speak Out About UFOs
October 6, 2013

I am currently working on a documentary film concerning UFO activity at nuclear weapons sites. I've just returned from Albuquerque, New Mexico, where a series of interviews with former U.S. Air Force missileers were recorded. The veterans—Philip Moore, Jay Earnshaw, and Gaylan King—were first interviewed on audiotape years ago but graciously agreed to participate in the current project as well.

Although it will be many months before the film is finished, brief summaries of the former nuclear missile launch officers' audiotaped statements appear here."


An extract from the testimony quoted at the link:

"The most interesting occurrence—of about 10 to 15—happened one night at another flight, Charlie. I was in the Echo capsule that night and heard what happened on the Primary Alert System. Following the security violation [alarms], both Outer and Inner, they sent out a Strike Team and received a visual report of a UFO hovering over a Launch Facility—I don't remember which one—with some kind of light beam coming down from the bottom of the UFO to the site. The team leader told the commander at Charlie that the object looked like a 'flying saucer' and the beam was described as reddish in color. The craft then took off at high speed.

This report went immediately up the chain [of command] to SAC Headquarters. Soon, black, unmarked Huey helicopters showed up at Ellsworth. They were constantly coming and going, from the base out to the countryside. You know, we had 150 missiles scattered around out there. Anyway, the Hueys were strategically stationed around the greater area of the 44th Strategic Missile Wing—I guess to get a look at the UFOs—which were very evident for three to four weeks.

The crews of those choppers came to the Officers Club but spoke to no one and disappeared as quickly as they appeared. They weren't Air Force; they were probably working for the CIA or NSA or some group like that. Short hair, dark clothes, kept to themselves. They were different and stuck out. They were all over the place. I'd love to know who they were.

As soon as they showed up, everything began to clamp down. We heard nothing about the results [of their investigations], but I spoke with some of the security Strike Team commanders, all NCOs, who actually saw the unidentified intruders. This scenario apparently happened at all or most of the Minuteman wings. We heard about that through the grapevine. I have no doubt what the objects were."

Robert Hastings • Articles -- Three Former U.S. Air Force ICBM Launch Officers Speak Out About UFOs

 

[Burnt State]

It seems still more incredible to me that these same people and their followers expect, even demand, that individual researchers such as Ray Stanford should now put themselves and their families at risk in order to satisfy their own relatively meagre curiosity.

There certainly has been some game playing and disinformation on behalf of the covert military, but to what end or what extent is not clear. Impact on society not been negligable: careers and lives have been ruined and tampered with. There have been some suicides. To what extent the covert military establishment bears responsibility is unknown.

UFO frauds who have made claims of various natures from there's a companion object with Halle Bop, or hypnosis will help uncover the truth behind alien abduction are just as problematic if not more. Impact of such cultish activities have included mass suicides and a number of destabilized people not getting the professional care they need.

Before I celebrate UFO investigators I think there's some social responsibility to be explored. If you had a dangerous truth that might hurt you or your family I would respect being totally silent about it all. Parading the notion that you have proof of alien visitation, or knowledge of their craft's propulsion, decade over decade, but showing nothing is an irresponsible promotion of a speculative reality. And to what end? It only fuels the fires of mythical thinking that helps to inform those who participate in cults and the abduction hypnosis game. I prefer the cautious and critical types as opposed to those who say they know exactly what's going on but won't show boo.

 

[marduk]

If I had the ability to ease the suffering of mankind by profoundly increasing humanity's material wealth thereby ending poverty potentially within a generation should I walk around for years talking about how great this is but not release my data to the benefit of mankind?

No.

If I had the ability to end air pollution that currently puts more than 1/3 of children in India and China (hundreds of millions of mankind's children) at risk of respiratory failure should I walk around for years talking about how great this is but not release my data to the benefit of mankind?

No.

If I had the ability to give mankind equal footing and a deep sense of place and identity within the universe, should I walk around for years talking about how great this is but not release my data to the benefit of mankind?

No.

The ability to give mankind the capability to understand and hence replicate these craft's propulsion system could do all this -- and more -- for mankind.

Yet one man nearing the end of his life sits on the data.

For what?

 

[dyingsun]

I'd be cool if I'd meet you all in a spaceship

 

[boomerang]

Robert Hastings has a documentary in progress concerning ufo intrusions at nuclear weapons bases:

"Three Former U.S. Air Force ICBM Launch Officers Speak Out About UFOs
October 6, 2013

I am currently working on a documentary film concerning UFO activity at nuclear weapons sites. I've just returned from Albuquerque, New Mexico, where a series of interviews with former U.S. Air Force missileers were recorded. The veterans—Philip Moore, Jay Earnshaw, and Gaylan King—were first interviewed on audiotape years ago but graciously agreed to participate in the current project as well.

The intrusions at ICBM bases may be some of the strongest and best documented evidence available. Hastings work is great. There is also a treasure trove of printed interview material on the Project Sign Oral History website:
Interview Index | Sign Oral History Project

I'm wondering if we know even the half of what has taken place at such sites. A quote from the McCaslin interview concerning one of the intrusions at Minot ( A classic Blue Book case, BTW):
'Ah, yeah. But I did hear the pilot say something like “the missile guys are seeing things again.” Because it was kind of a standard thing that the missile guys reported stuff apparently on a fairly routine basis that looked strange.'

A "standard thing" ? Amazing ! I'm really looking forward to the Hastings documentary.

-----------
ADD: I had to take another look at the Oral Sign website. If you have the time, this is one helluva' discussion between officers involved in the Minot incident:

http://sohp.us/sites/default/files/documents/Goduto-Thomas-2001.pdf

 

[michaelangel1453]

I've been doing a heck of a lot of very thorough research about Stanford and I will assiduously avoid the word hogwash. Perhaps that was too trite and dismissive a term. Regarding his paleontological endeavors, little criticism can be offered, quite the opposite.

However, a thorough review of his activity regarding UFOs and many other claims by him over the course of his life leads me to have serious doubts as to his veracity.

Additionally, this stuff (read soapbox expostulations, shall I say) by one of the primary contributors to the consciousness and paranormal thread regarding Stanford's work in UFOs and ancillary topics by her about coverups, etc. subtract mightily from her already tenuous contributions to that thread.

I will strive to enter that thread soon with, yes, I devoutly and genuinely promise, truly constructive contributions.

And to Chris, as per your impassioned challenge, I did obtain a used copy of your book and will make serious contributions as you advise. As a starter, may I point out that the word is "ungulates," not "undulates."

 

[dyingsun]

Do you have anything (and I mean anything) to bring to the Table ?

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Chris, as per your impassioned challenge, I did obtain a used copy of your book and will make serious contributions as you advise. As a starter, may I point out that the word is "ungulates," not "undulates."

A used copy? That figures... 20 years of research, half a million words, 564 pages and this is your first dismissive comment? Tell that one to my copy-editor(s) and then post your in-depth analysis of STH and the entire mute phenomenon. I'm sure folks are interested in what you have to say...

 

[Gene Steinberg]

A used copy? Curious for a book that's only been out less than there months, and all he can manage, Chris, is a comment about one instance of word usage to which he objects. But wait, he could save $4 or $5 for a used copy from an Amazon vendor, so maybe that's what really happened. But not an autographed copy.

 

[dyingsun]

he already bound his own noose, the struggling...we'll see.

 

[michaelangel1453]

Actually, Chris, lots of stuff praiseworthy about, yes, the used copy of your book. Just stating a fact, no need to pick at that, and take it as a dig. I couldn't find, look and call as I did, a copy in stock at any of the branches of a major name bookstore in a very large metro area of our country. So I got it used and why the snideness toward good ol' Amazon? And I need to save that four or five bucks. No room in my budget for the luxury of a new one, though I would have liked an autographed copy from Chris. Why all the hostility? Four bucks is several cans of condensed Bean with Bacon soup from Walmart. No kidding.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Or Progressso soup at $1.68 a can. We warm it up in the microwave. Hearty chicken noodle.

 

[flipper]

Mark McCandlish
I was really impressed Mark McCandlish. He knew a lot and did not pretend to be any more than he was. Here is why I think Mark should be interviewed. I was listening to him on Red Ice Radio (hour one). Toward the end of the interview he suggested from his knowledge (not insider knowledge but from reading technical journals) how UFOs could be powered. Then he said that he was listening to a program with people who interviewed people who had been abducted. My impression was that Mark from the interview had to overcome his own disbelief that their could be such things as abductions. Anyway he asked them what they saw. What they described was what he thought could be propelling these craft. Ray Stanford take note. Finally Mark said that he two had missing time experience and had earlier in the interview said that he had seen multiple UFOs.
Red Ice Radio - Mark McCandlish - Hour 1 - Sequestered Technology & Offworld Exploration
I posted this elsewhere but thought it might interest forum members here.
Mark's Home Page

 

[Soupie]

I think we might also need to consider the possible multi-dimensional aspects of the phenomenon.

It always struck me how Carl Sagan's quirky video explaining the implications of an Apple playing tricks with a poor old square inhabitant of Flatland, could be somehow used to illustrate some of the most confusing aspects of the UFO phenomenon —the things that make us bring up the term 'paranormal'... ...

The above image is the angel Leliel, from the hugely popular anime series Evangelion —in that episode, it's later revealed the sphere is actually Leliel's shadow.

Wow, you managed to coherently use Sagan and Evangelion -- two of my most favorite things -- in one post? Brilliant!

The dimensional perspective can certainly be used to explain many aspects of the UFO phenomenon.

In particular, I wonder about the interaction/contact/communication aspect. The analogy of a human interacting with an ant (or a dolphin for that matter) is often used to explain why a non-human intelligence might not want or be able to communicate with us. However, if there is a dimensional component, that could obviously create an interaction barriers as well.

For instance, the apple may want to interact with the flat shapes, but doing so is challenging - both from the apple's perspective and the perspective of the 2D shapes. The apple must communicate 3D information and concepts in 2D form to creatures that exist, experience, and think in 2D. (What might that mean to think in 2D; and I don't mean conceptually -- I mean their brain and mind are 2 dimensional.)

If there are non-human intelligences that exist in more than 3 dimensions, assuming they are conscious, then one must assume their consciousness exists in more than 3 dimensions as well. Now, we don't understand completely how our own consciousness arises in our 3 dimensional existence, let alone what a 3+ dimensional mind would be like.

Thus, regardless of whether said non-human intelligence was ultra-advanced or just more-advanced than us, there would be both significant physical and mental (phenomenal) challenges to coherent communication. Not to mention psychological and cultural challenges.

Of course we can assume that an uber-advanced, multi-dimensional, non-human intelligence would be able to easily overcome these challenges, but perhaps they can't. But they might be trying ( Machine Elves ). Or they might not be. What would they want to tell us? Hello? Could we understand anymore than that?

 

[marduk]

There's more than a few problems with the multidimensional theory stuff though.

For one thing, if we were to project ourselves into two dimensional space, we wouldn't see anything. Infinitely small line segments wouldn't be registered as anything by our ability to sense them.

We also don't often see hypercubes or n-spheres as UFOs.

Unless by multidimensional you really mean parallel universes.

 

[red_pill_junkie]

Wow, you managed to coherently use Sagan and Evangelion -- two of my most favorite things -- in one post? Brilliant!

The dimensional perspective can certainly be used to explain many aspects of the UFO phenomenon.

In particular, I wonder about the interaction/contact/communication aspect. The analogy of a human interacting with an ant (or a dolphin for that matter) is often used to explain why a non-human intelligence might not want or be able to communicate with us. However, if there is a dimensional component, that could obviously create an interaction barriers as well.

For instance, the apple may want to interact with the flat shapes, but doing so is challenging - both from the apple's perspective and the perspective of the 2D shapes. The apple must communicate 3D information and concepts in 2D form to creatures that exist, experience, and think in 2D. (What might that mean to think in 2D; and I don't mean conceptually -- I mean their brain and mind are 2 dimensional.)

If there are non-human intelligences that exist in more than 3 dimensions, assuming they are conscious, then one must assume their consciousness exists in more than 3 dimensions as well. Now, we don't understand completely how our own consciousness arises in our 3 dimensional existence, let alone what a 3+ dimensional mind would be like.

Thus, regardless of whether said non-human intelligence was ultra-advanced or just more-advanced than us, there would be both significant physical and mental (phenomenal) challenges to coherent communication. Not to mention psychological and cultural challenges.

Of course we can assume that an uber-advanced, multi-dimensional, non-human intelligence would be able to easily overcome these challenges, but perhaps they can't. But they might be trying ( Machine Elves ). Or they might not be. What would they want to tell us? Hello? Could we understand anymore than that?

Exactly! It may not be just a problem of 'translating' from the alien language to English, or any other human language. The problem of expressing ideas & concepts between 2 differing minds who might be experiencing the world around them from vastly different vantage points, might be an incredibly difficult task.

Which is why I'm so fond of Paul Kimball's & others ideas re. the UFO phenomenon: that it might be better understood as an art project, in the sense that when a group of people stand in front of an abstract form of art, even though they are looking at the same thing, they might all get different ideas triggered by the art piece --to one it might evoke sadness, to other joy, etc etc.

It also reminds me of something Whitley Strieber has written about his impressions re. the Visitors: that when they for example look at a tree, they are not just 'seeing' the tree; they are observing EVERY single aspect in the existence of that tree, from when it was just a tiny seed to when it dies & falls to the ground, SIMULTANEOUSLY. Like watching ALL the frames in a movie film at the same time.

And it *also* reminds me of something I've found both in the lectures by Terence McKenna, and the comic book The Invisibles by Grant Morrison: the concept of glossolalia as the primordial form of language, because it communicates directly to the subconscious mind, even though each recipient receives a different message --yet the message remains 'true' to every recipient.

Hard stuff to understand, for sure; but IMO the UFO phenomenon is not meant to wrap your head around it --it's meant to SPLIT OPEN YOUR SKULL

PS: This might be relevant to the discussion

http://posthumanblues.blogspot.mx/2009/07/asemic-texts-and-alien-writing.html

Asemic writing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Burnt State]

That would be Ufological cleavage?

 

[red_pill_junkie]

That would be Ufological cleavage?

Now YOU are the one combining two of my favorite things

 

[mike]

Its funny i was reading the rules at another site (cosplay site) and came across this

2.5 (Added 2/2/13) Making a post in which you declare you have a super-special seeeeecret source for something (be it fabric, clothing or whatever) and you're not going to share it with anyone, for whatever reason, has been declared a violation of the spirit of this community and the "Play Nice" rule. If you want to keep a secret, don't brag up that you have a secret in the first place.

Was instantly reminded of this discussion.........