DissectionStalker
Paranormal Adept
Time to quash this unfounded and passed around rumor. I know no one personally on this forum, nor have I ever posted here under another Avatar name.
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Don Berliner, August 10, 2014
- Thread starter wwkirk
- Start date
Stalker has deleted two of his messages so I don't know if that confuses the matter further.
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DissectionStalker
Paranormal Adept
Those two were merely duplicates that somehow appeared when trying to save an edit I made in the original post. For whatever reason I got 3 identical posts, and so I deleted two of those. These were both copies of the long Roswell witness list post that Heidi referenced and had nothing to do with Constance's complaints.
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Heidi Lemmer
Paranormal Adept
This list is not a total of people who witnessed the crash, this is a list of people's testimonies. Just like any crime scene, you cast your net wide and pull in. My point to you is that I find it highly unlikely that so many people could be involved in a psyops scheme, especially after all these years. I also find it highly unlikely that someone would do a deathbed confession and lie through his teeth about the whole thing. This dismissal of people's testimony is an odd response. And although it makes for good tasting gummy bears to tout James Carrion's theory to all things alien related it smells like horse crap from my perspective. Carrion's theory on ghost rockets is not a cure all to everything. Psyops is not a cure all. To reduce peoples one on one interviews, like Stan Friedmans work to wishful thinking and/or being part of a massive coverup is really brazen on your part. People might think I'm gullible when it comes to all this, but I would say that your extremely gullable to so readily hop on the psyops train for all things alien related.
Burnt State
Paranormal Adept
Don was an excellent guest - another strong episode in a summer of strength for The Paracast. The abduction conversation caught my ear and was glad to hear Thomas E. Bullard referenced. For those who have not encountered him in pursuit of abduction phenomenon research, he is a Ph.D. folklorist with some strong convictions regarding the relationship between folklore and AAP. His research has led him to a place of conviction regarding the repetition of specific features of the alien abduction phenomenon.
Here's some writing samples:
In the Light of Experience
Have I led everyone astray by abstracting a stereotypical pattern from the reports, when the pattern is no more than a figment of my scholarly making? I don’t think so. the pattern I found came to light case by case and detail by detail. Examination precedes conference, beings have large heads, and examination rooms have uniform lighting – how abstract can a pattern be when it simply counts specific elements, and recognises some as far more common than others? The pattern emerges because it describes what witnesses report, not because a scholar prescribes what the story ought to be.
......
The abduction phenomena is a genuine anomaly. Whether similar strange experiences provoke similar strange stories, or personal needs somehow motivate people to select the same few story elements out of all the possibilities available to them, the problem remains provocative. Blame aliens, something akin to the Old Hag, Kenneth Ring’s imaginal realm, Jacques Vallée’s control system, an unexpected property of narrative transmission, hedgehogs or anything else. Folklore scholarship certainly cannot pick the winner. It can only point out some probable losers.
from: In the Light of Experience. Thomas E. Bullard | MAGONIA
The Supernatural Kidnap Narrative are Returns in Technological Disguise.
Abduction reports demonstrate that a complex legend filled with extraordinary content can arise and take hold in modern society. How much credit belongs to mass media is uncertain, but their crucial importance in passing along an awareness of abductions seems undeniable. News reaches the public through best-selling books, popular movies, and TV talk shows, or even by a casual glance at a tabloid newspaper in the grocery checkout lane. Whether the pervasiveness of these ideas causes imaginative fantasies or encourages wit- nesses to speak up is equally uncertain, but an audience for the stories is as- sured. The UFO community is both eager to listen and organized to spread the word. National groups with their network of enthusiastic members investigate reports, then communicate findings through organizational newsletters and journals. Not only belief but subscriptions sustain a receptive channel for the reports and their interpretation as alien visitations. Aware of the value of publicity, UFO organizations and researchers relay abduction cases to the news media and thereby complete the cycle of information distribution
from: http://query.homestead.com/ufoabduct.pdf
Bullard's nemesis Hilary Evans and contrarian positions:
Variation Enigmas; Folklore Rules. Thomas Bullard & Hilary Evans | MAGONIA
And then as I was looking though some of Bullard's articles I ran into someone I hadn't intersected with before, Dimitris Hatzopoulis. He's an excellent collector and assessor of UFO research with an Isaac Koi's dispassionate objectivism running through his discussion without the pseudonym - really valuable material here worth sifting through:
http://www.hyper.net/ufo/abductions.html
Here's some writing samples:
In the Light of Experience
Have I led everyone astray by abstracting a stereotypical pattern from the reports, when the pattern is no more than a figment of my scholarly making? I don’t think so. the pattern I found came to light case by case and detail by detail. Examination precedes conference, beings have large heads, and examination rooms have uniform lighting – how abstract can a pattern be when it simply counts specific elements, and recognises some as far more common than others? The pattern emerges because it describes what witnesses report, not because a scholar prescribes what the story ought to be.
......
The abduction phenomena is a genuine anomaly. Whether similar strange experiences provoke similar strange stories, or personal needs somehow motivate people to select the same few story elements out of all the possibilities available to them, the problem remains provocative. Blame aliens, something akin to the Old Hag, Kenneth Ring’s imaginal realm, Jacques Vallée’s control system, an unexpected property of narrative transmission, hedgehogs or anything else. Folklore scholarship certainly cannot pick the winner. It can only point out some probable losers.
from: In the Light of Experience. Thomas E. Bullard | MAGONIA
The Supernatural Kidnap Narrative are Returns in Technological Disguise.
Abduction reports demonstrate that a complex legend filled with extraordinary content can arise and take hold in modern society. How much credit belongs to mass media is uncertain, but their crucial importance in passing along an awareness of abductions seems undeniable. News reaches the public through best-selling books, popular movies, and TV talk shows, or even by a casual glance at a tabloid newspaper in the grocery checkout lane. Whether the pervasiveness of these ideas causes imaginative fantasies or encourages wit- nesses to speak up is equally uncertain, but an audience for the stories is as- sured. The UFO community is both eager to listen and organized to spread the word. National groups with their network of enthusiastic members investigate reports, then communicate findings through organizational newsletters and journals. Not only belief but subscriptions sustain a receptive channel for the reports and their interpretation as alien visitations. Aware of the value of publicity, UFO organizations and researchers relay abduction cases to the news media and thereby complete the cycle of information distribution
from: http://query.homestead.com/ufoabduct.pdf
Bullard's nemesis Hilary Evans and contrarian positions:
Variation Enigmas; Folklore Rules. Thomas Bullard & Hilary Evans | MAGONIA
And then as I was looking though some of Bullard's articles I ran into someone I hadn't intersected with before, Dimitris Hatzopoulis. He's an excellent collector and assessor of UFO research with an Isaac Koi's dispassionate objectivism running through his discussion without the pseudonym - really valuable material here worth sifting through:
http://www.hyper.net/ufo/abductions.html
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DissectionStalker
Paranormal Adept
My signature [see below] proves otherwise, as do many of my posts. Yes, 1970's/1980's Roswell is an A.F.O.S.I. PSYOPS, sorry, but you can't color me that for everything else -no way!
Heidi, I replied on this other thread, since it is not on-topic here:
Stanton T. Friedman — August 3, 2014 | Page 4 | The Paracast Community Forums
flipper
Paranormal Adept
Did You Hear? UFOlogy is Dying. Again
What I think it really comes down to is that there's no money in UFOlogy. There was for a while when Laurence Rockefeller was interested and now Bigelow Airspace seems to be running their own privatized UFOlogy (the story goes that the FAA and the like refer all sightings now to Bigelow) for reasons we can only guess at, but they certainly have no interest in sharing the wealth. They have their own UFOlogists, thank you.
This is no small thing because this speaks to a larger story, the expansion of government secrecy, the privatization of National Security, and the increasingly opaque nature of the intelligence apparatus even in the wake of the Snowden and Wikileaks revelations. The fact of the matter is that most of what we know about UFOs and the government dates back to those Carter-era document dumps, and very little has come to light since. Nothing much of substance either for or against has come to light since 9/11.
The Secret Sun: Did You Hear? UFOlogy is Dying. Again.
What I think it really comes down to is that there's no money in UFOlogy. There was for a while when Laurence Rockefeller was interested and now Bigelow Airspace seems to be running their own privatized UFOlogy (the story goes that the FAA and the like refer all sightings now to Bigelow) for reasons we can only guess at, but they certainly have no interest in sharing the wealth. They have their own UFOlogists, thank you.
This is no small thing because this speaks to a larger story, the expansion of government secrecy, the privatization of National Security, and the increasingly opaque nature of the intelligence apparatus even in the wake of the Snowden and Wikileaks revelations. The fact of the matter is that most of what we know about UFOs and the government dates back to those Carter-era document dumps, and very little has come to light since. Nothing much of substance either for or against has come to light since 9/11.
The Secret Sun: Did You Hear? UFOlogy is Dying. Again.
technomage
Paranormal Adept
His site is how I got re-introduced to the UFO field and it's how I found various podcasts, including the Paracast. It's a very informative site, but it doesn't look like it's been updated since 2012.
Han
piscator ψ
I have just finished listening to this episode, I think that Mr Berliner was an excellent guest, I particularly enjoyed his great sense of humour.
The only issue I had (well maybe not issue but question) was why it is generally assumed that UFO/UAP/Flying saucers/Alien Space ships ect.... are made from "Metal"?
I confess that I know less than most about UFO's and I am no metallurgist but it seems to me that "metal" is what we (humans) have used to build craft, but there are many other materials that could be used: woods, plastics, carbon fiber etc let alone materials we have not yet managed to master like water* for example. My opinion is that if "ET" has the capability of interstellar or inter-dimensional travel then them having a "technology" that can manipulate individual molecules of X material to join and form into a predetermined pattern or arrangement e.g. a Flying Saucer is not beyond reason.
* I chose water as an example because of the many reports of UFO's etc near, around or above water sources: maybe they are refueling/recharging or repairing/refitting?
The only issue I had (well maybe not issue but question) was why it is generally assumed that UFO/UAP/Flying saucers/Alien Space ships ect.... are made from "Metal"?
I confess that I know less than most about UFO's and I am no metallurgist but it seems to me that "metal" is what we (humans) have used to build craft, but there are many other materials that could be used: woods, plastics, carbon fiber etc let alone materials we have not yet managed to master like water* for example. My opinion is that if "ET" has the capability of interstellar or inter-dimensional travel then them having a "technology" that can manipulate individual molecules of X material to join and form into a predetermined pattern or arrangement e.g. a Flying Saucer is not beyond reason.
* I chose water as an example because of the many reports of UFO's etc near, around or above water sources: maybe they are refueling/recharging or repairing/refitting?