Ancient Alien Series

[kevKong]

Hi All,

Just watched my recorded backlog of the Ancient Alien Series on the History Channel, It's all about previous visitations and interventions throughout antiquity from extra terrestrials. What a poor show!!!!

The problem I have with the 'so called' experts is that their interpretation of ancient visuals and texts is completely steered by what we know and understand today.

It seems any ancient petroglyph or stone carving with any kind of circular embellishment around the head of a human like figure automatically represents a space helmet, or a stylised bird like ornament represents an aeroplane and cave paintings of strange creatures with huge eyes are aliens etc etc etc…

We often give credit to our ancient ancestors with our assumptions of their technical knowledge but what about creative licence, impressionism or artistic representation of their surroundings through art, why not credit them with creativity instead of pinning down quite literally what we think they are depicting.

In two thousand years when we have technology that resembles ancient cave art that we have so far ignored we will probably have the same attitude, we just pick out the images we understand and marry those to the technological concepts of our time and create a ridiculous connection.

Agreed there are ancient South American carvings that resemble men with what look like Apollo Mission style helmets but why would such 'advanced extra terrestrial races' use the same technology we used in our stellar infancy? These theories are rubbish.

I don't know whether the show was poorly edited to make the contributors look extremely tunnel visioned but on several occasions we heard ' you see this is proof of extra terrestrial intervention '. THERE IS NO PROOF!!!!

If we did have ancient technology surpassing our own why could it not be from this very planet? The earth is billions of years old, civilisations could have risen and fallen for millions of years with no trace, buried beneath thousands of feet of earth.

Anyway, that's my take on it, if anyone can convince me otherwise please do so, I so want to believe that god was an astronaut!

OK so I'm ranting on about another show and not the Paracast but these subjects are often brought up by Gene and his guests so I hope its OK to post this here.

cheers

Kev (9 years in government)

 

[Kandinsky]

You make some good points and I agree wholeheartedly.

The ancient aliens aspect of the UFO subject seems like a red herring. It's usually subjective blather without any informed context or acknowledgement of the research by people who spend their lives immersed in history. Petroglyphs, rock art, dolmens and megaliths are so mysterious to modern eyes that some people just attribute them all to aliens.

As far as I'm concerned, there's no evidence that aliens played a part in our building megaliths. Pyramids and anything else were built and designed by human ingenuity and the typical pressures that cause us to continue building today. The evidence to support human endeavour is there to read if people take the time to look.

ETA: when guests use ancient alien theories to support their claims I tend to switch off. I can't recall any UFO researcher supporting the claim with academic evidence. They might as well pull the idea out of thin air, because it holds no value to the discussion of UFOs as I see it.

 

[Michael Allen]

The entire judeo-christian biblical tradition is based on the notion of "heavenly" visitation (cf. famous Ezekiel "Merkaba" sighting, the Enoch "rapture" and other oddities in the Pentateuch and Tankh) Coupled with some rather fantastic imagery, apparent machinery and high-energy weapons of the Vedic traditions (which are considerably older than the judeo-christian traditions) and you have a good starting point for at least a cursory examination of the ancient ET visitation hypothesis. I think human beings are more likely to use mimicry as a means to propagate memes representative of higher technology (cf. "South Pacific Cargo Cult") -- I think of the various temples erected as examples of possible technological mimicry. The same can be said of the massive monuments, petroglyphs, art, and such--in that the researchers are focusing on the wrong question when they concern themselves with the logistics of the human creative output rather than the more interesting question as to why such auspicious megalithic monuments and reliefs were designed in the first place.

I don't doubt the ability of human beings to create such things, but I do leave open the most interesting possibility that some of those were inspired by extra-terrestrial sources.
Be that as it may, I am in total agreement with the author of this thread concerning the shoddy methods of human "made for tv" investigative efforts.

 

[exo_doc]

Hi All,

Just watched my recorded backlog of the Ancient Alien Series on the History Channel, It's all about previous visitations and interventions throughout antiquity from extra terrestrials. What a poor show!!!!

The problem I have with the 'so called' experts is that their interpretation of ancient visuals and texts is completely steered by what we know and understand today.

It seems any ancient petroglyph or stone carving with any kind of circular embellishment around the head of a human like figure automatically represents a space helmet, or a stylised bird like ornament represents an aeroplane and cave paintings of strange creatures with huge eyes are aliens etc etc etc…

We often give credit to our ancient ancestors with our assumptions of their technical knowledge but what about creative licence, impressionism or artistic representation of their surroundings through art, why not credit them with creativity instead of pinning down quite literally what we think they are depicting.

In two thousand years when we have technology that resembles ancient cave art that we have so far ignored we will probably have the same attitude, we just pick out the images we understand and marry those to the technological concepts of our time and create a ridiculous connection.

Agreed there are ancient South American carvings that resemble men with what look like Apollo Mission style helmets but why would such 'advanced extra terrestrial races' use the same technology we used in our stellar infancy? These theories are rubbish.

I don't know whether the show was poorly edited to make the contributors look extremely tunnel visioned but on several occasions we heard ' you see this is proof of extra terrestrial intervention '. THERE IS NO PROOF!!!!

If we did have ancient technology surpassing our own why could it not be from this very planet? The earth is billions of years old, civilisations could have risen and fallen for millions of years with no trace, buried beneath thousands of feet of earth.

Anyway, that's my take on it, if anyone can convince me otherwise please do so, I so want to believe that god was an astronaut!

OK so I'm ranting on about another show and not the Paracast but these subjects are often brought up by Gene and his guests so I hope its OK to post this here.

cheers

Kev (9 years in government)

I read Zachariah Sitchens "Stairway to Heaven" (or whatever the title was) a few years back, and I thought he brought up some good points, at least to ponder.
Older cultures thought Gods came from the sky. Why would they think that? Whenever a mortal visited a God, he was always transported "up there".
The very old Hindu writings describe flaming arrows destroying cities, blinding people and animals miles away, the heat setting fires miles away, and peoples hair falling out. Doesn't that sound like a nuclear tipped missle?
And Vimanas flying people around, elixirs and potions of the Gods healing people.

Yeah, maybe they were really good sci-fi writers, and maybe we tend to interpret through modern eyes, but if I read an ancient text about an animal with four legs, two horns, and makes a moo sound....I'm gonna say that's a cow.

But I do get your point. We shouldn't automatically assume ETH or other paranormal, but we shouldn't throw it out either.

 

[Andrew Rhodes]

Hi All,

Just watched my recorded backlog of the Ancient Alien Series on the History Channel, It's all about previous visitations and interventions throughout antiquity from extra terrestrials. What a poor show!!!!

The problem I have with the 'so called' experts is that their interpretation of ancient visuals and texts is completely steered by what we know and understand today.

It seems any ancient petroglyph or stone carving with any kind of circular embellishment around the head of a human like figure automatically represents a space helmet, or a stylised bird like ornament represents an aeroplane and cave paintings of strange creatures with huge eyes are aliens etc etc etc…

We often give credit to our ancient ancestors with our assumptions of their technical knowledge but what about creative licence, impressionism or artistic representation of their surroundings through art, why not credit them with creativity instead of pinning down quite literally what we think they are depicting.

In two thousand years when we have technology that resembles ancient cave art that we have so far ignored we will probably have the same attitude, we just pick out the images we understand and marry those to the technological concepts of our time and create a ridiculous connection.

Agreed there are ancient South American carvings that resemble men with what look like Apollo Mission style helmets but why would such 'advanced extra terrestrial races' use the same technology we used in our stellar infancy? These theories are rubbish.

I don't know whether the show was poorly edited to make the contributors look extremely tunnel visioned but on several occasions we heard ' you see this is proof of extra terrestrial intervention '. THERE IS NO PROOF!!!!

If we did have ancient technology surpassing our own why could it not be from this very planet? The earth is billions of years old, civilisations could have risen and fallen for millions of years with no trace, buried beneath thousands of feet of earth.

Anyway, that's my take on it, if anyone can convince me otherwise please do so, I so want to believe that god was an astronaut!

OK so I'm ranting on about another show and not the Paracast but these subjects are often brought up by Gene and his guests so I hope its OK to post this here.

cheers

Kev (9 years in government)

You’re claiming that evidence presented to date of ancient aliens does not exist but is that because the alternative theory of this evidence being presented contradicts what the established point of view is? Everything that has been translated, interpreted, figured out, has been based on the knowledge and period of time that the scientist currently lived in. If someone looks at a hieroglyphic prior to the start of the space exploration why would they see an astronaut, why not see just a headdress?
<O</O
As our knowledge expands and our understanding of how things work grows over time, shouldn’t we look at the same hieroglyphic to see if maybe we got it wrong? I agree that there is no proof that what has been presented as evidence for the argument of ancient alien intervention couldn’t be built by or conceived by man as we are a wile race with a can do attitude. It’s just that there is an equal amount of belief that since there our some things on this planet that we can not replicate in this day and age that makes you wonder, how it got there in the first place. In 100 years someone could go back to that same hieroglyphic and ponder it for a long time and say, look, they had telekinetic powers in the past too, it is clear as day, see the aura around the head?
<O</O
Or maybe not.

 

[Kandinsky]

If someone looks at a hieroglyphic prior to the start of the space exploration why would they see an astronaut, why not see just a headdress?

I think I see your point, but the understanding of hieroglyphs isn't dictated by the times. Thanks to the Rosetta Stone we can translate hieroglyphs very accurately. Both hieratic (formal, religious, decorative) and demotic scripts (everyday script like that used to graffiti stonework) have been translated.

Obviously, there's still the matter of *interpreting* what some of their prayers and texts meant to them, but the actual script is known.

 

[Michael Allen]

It is the unspoken assumption in some of these investigative efforts that the quantity of collective human knowledge monotonically increases over time.

 

[Xylo]

I like that series for it's entertainment and speculative value. I am not, however, impressed with the conclusions that the participants seem to come up with at every turn. To dismiss the idea that early humans were clever, intelligent, and industrious is to believe that we still belong in the trees and in the caves.

While I think it's a wonderfully romantic notion that we humans were and are so important in the universe that all sorts of non-terrestrial races want to come visit us, I believe it's very arrogant and egocentric to believe it.

There are some oddities that don't seem to have any "normal" explanation, but that doesn't mean that they are alien inspired or alien in origination.

 

[Michael Allen]

To dismiss the idea that early humans were clever, intelligent, and industrious is to believe that we still belong in the trees and in the caves.

This is a fallacy.

(a) humans were not [time stamp?] clever, intelligent and industrious
(b) we [humans] still belong in trees and caves.

Non-sequitur. (a) does not imply (b)

While I think it's a wonderfully romantic notion that we humans were and are so important in the universe that all sorts of non-terrestrial races want to come visit us, I believe it's very arrogant and egocentric to believe it.

A demonstrable absurdity -- no arrogance follows (again, another non-sequitur)
Turn the tables...
I guess the reverse position is also true, i.e. that aliens shouldn't be so arrogant that we'd have any interest in their planet (assuming the garden variety are as rare as some have thought). Our attempts to search for ET via SETI is a kind of indirect counterexample.

So these would-be aliens are romantic for thinking that they'd be so interesting that some other race (OURS) would be focusing millions of USD worth of listening equipment at THEM?

 

[dyingsun]

This is a fallacy.
So these would-be aliens are romantic for thinking that they'd be so interesting that some other race (OURS) would be focusing millions of USD worth of listening equipment at THEM?

That's really the worst 'example' you could have chosen.

 

[Xylo]

This is a fallacy.

(a) humans were not [time stamp?] clever, intelligent and industrious
(b) we [humans] still belong in trees and caves.

Non-sequitur. (a) does not imply (b)




A demonstrable absurdity -- no arrogance follows (again, another non-sequitur)
Turn the tables...
I guess the reverse position is also true, i.e. that aliens shouldn't be so arrogant that we'd have any interest in their planet (assuming the garden variety are as rare as some have thought). Our attempts to search for ET via SETI is a kind of indirect counterexample.

So these would-be aliens are romantic for thinking that they'd be so interesting that some other race (OURS) would be focusing millions of USD worth of listening equipment at THEM?

Didn't know we were having a course in Logic, nor rhetoric. I use metaphors, get over it.

The fact remains: The conclusions of the "Ancient Aliens" programs are far reaching and are not based in fact but rather supposition. The conclusions ignore the FACT that ancient humans were damned clever and built some ingenious structures. The presenters base their conclusions as fact when they are clearly supposition.

As far as Aliens being arrogant: I haven't seen any alien TV series claiming that humans visited them and gave them "highly advanced technology." But when I do, I will certainly post that here.

 

[Michael Allen]

Didn't know we were having a course in Logic, nor rhetoric. I use metaphors, get over it.

The fact remains: The conclusions of the "Ancient Aliens" programs are far reaching and are not based in fact but rather supposition. The conclusions ignore the FACT that ancient humans were damned clever and built some ingenious structures. The presenters base their conclusions as fact when they are clearly supposition.

As far as Aliens being arrogant: I haven't seen any alien TV series claiming that humans visited them and gave them "highly advanced technology." But when I do, I will certainly post that here.

A course in logic would be recommended.

 

[dyingsun]

A course in logic would be recommended.

I would love to read your reason 'why'.

 

[Michael Allen]

Logic (being normative and not descriptive) is the study of how humans should use reason--there are good and bad examples of reasoning. A good course in logic *might* help one root out and replace their own bad habits of thought.

 

[dyingsun]

Logic (being normative and not descriptive) is the study of how humans should use reason--there are good and bad examples of reasoning. A good course in logic *might* help one root out and replace their own bad habits of thought.

'Might', thank you for the lecture, I certainly needed it.

 

[Martina]

Hi All,

Just watched my recorded backlog of the Ancient Alien Series on the History Channel, It's all about previous visitations and interventions throughout antiquity from extra terrestrials. What a poor show!!!!

The problem I have with the 'so called' experts is that their interpretation of ancient visuals and texts is completely steered by what we know and understand today.

It seems any ancient petroglyph or stone carving with any kind of circular embellishment around the head of a human like figure automatically represents a space helmet, or a stylised bird like ornament represents an aeroplane and cave paintings of strange creatures with huge eyes are aliens etc etc etc…

Yeah, I'm with you there, it's all a matter of interpretation and some are pretty eager to interpret anything as an ancient ET visitation. Von Daniken for one is all hot to do that, and I just don't find such speculation to be anything like conclusive evidence.

That said, it might well be that "they" have been coming here for a very long time, but the jury is still out on that one.

 

[PeteAtomic]

Yeah, I'm with you there, it's all a matter of interpretation and some are pretty eager to interpret anything as an ancient ET visitation. Von Daniken for one is all hot to do that, and I just don't find such speculation to be anything like conclusive evidence.

That said, it might well be that "they" have been coming here for a very long time, but the jury is still out on that one.

Von Daniken was a very intelligent man with a great imagination. I think his imagination ran away with him more often, than not.

An interesting counterpoint to the 'aliens visited humanity and gave them advanced tech.' idea is Michael Cremo's interesting book Forbidden Archaeology. Cremo points to a continuing denial culture in archaeology of dismissing anomalous artifacts at digs that do not fit in nicely with current thinking on prehistory. He makes some compelling points. His theme I think does not point necessarily to outer space intervention, as much as the rise and fall of very advanced human civilizations hundreds of thousands of years before the first Mesopotamian city state every arose.

 

[Martina]

Von Daniken was a very intelligent man with a great imagination. I think his imagination ran away with him more often, than not.

An interesting counterpoint to the 'aliens visited humanity and gave them advanced tech.' idea is Michael Cremo's interesting book Forbidden Archaeology. Cremo points to a continuing denial culture in archaeology of dismissing anomalous artifacts at digs that do not fit in nicely with current thinking on prehistory. He makes some compelling points. His theme I think does not point necessarily to outer space intervention, as much as the rise and fall of very advanced human civilizations hundreds of thousands of years before the first Mesopotamian city state every arose.

I tend to lean more toward Cremo and away from Von Daniken, and for the reasons you mentioned, but also because modern archaeology has shown itself to be very biased and stubborn when it comes to new evidence that conflicts with it's accepted dogma. For instance anyone finding flint points predating the Clovis technology in North America will be, and have been, trashed and professionally destroyed by them.

There is also a huge amount of resistance to evidence of cultures and civilizations pre-dating what they accept, and on such matters their minds are absolutely closed. Cremo doesn't have it all, not anything near all of it, but he's on the right track, and at least has an open mind.

 

[Frank Stalter]

Yeah, I'm with you there, it's all a matter of interpretation and some are pretty eager to interpret anything as an ancient ET visitation. Von Daniken for one is all hot to do that, and I just don't find such speculation to be anything like conclusive evidence.

That said, it might well be that "they" have been coming here for a very long time, but the jury is still out on that one.

I really like the show and the whole ancient astronaut concept. Sure there's a lot of overeaching that causes me to chuckle, but I still think it's all great exciting stuff.

I do think that if alien visitation is happening at all, it's been happening all along.

 

[Martina]

I think that's a fair assumption Frank. I see no reason why they could not have been coming here all along, or waited until we started setting off nukes in the desert. It's a pretty nice planet with lots of natural resources. If they were here in ancient times we would not have had the technology to complicate their agenda and operations. Earth would have made a nice place to put in, re-provision, repair, and stand out to deep space again. It still does.