Where is the New Blood in the UFO field?

[timx13]

I've been thinking a lot about this after listening to the most recent show. I'm someone who was born in the late 70's, grew up in the 80's and 90's when the Abduction experience really reached its peak in America, and was extremely interested in the topic. It's something that fascinated me and I, like many others, devoured the books by Hopkins and Keel. I loved the X-Files (well, the first 5 seasons, at least), loved reading about Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster...and then real life set in. I went to college, though even in college I took a course titled Meta-Physics where we studied aberrant phenomena using the rigors of the scientific method, but not long after that I just stopped keeping up with it all. There's only so long you can sit and listen to people saying the same things over and over again.

In my thinking I've drafted up a quick "Why aren't there more young people getting involved in UFOlogy." Perhaps you'd all like to weigh in, tell me what you think, what you agree with & disagree with.

Why aren't there more young people getting involved in UFOlogy?

Because it's been 60 + years without any credible or reliable scientific proof. There's LOTS of anecdotal evidence, and that's fine if you're only interested in the entertainment aspect of this, but if you're looking for proof, there really is none.

Because people born after 1980 have largely grown up with unprecedented access to a fairly high level of technology. Despite what this might be doing to attention spans, it's also breeding a much savvier culture. The old "nuts & bolts" spacecraft is the stuff of 50s SF. The newer dimensional travelers theory is cool, but if there's no proof, who cares? If it's something altogether mystical or trixterish then it's something that is going to be specific to each experience, and therefore will yield no universal truths.

Because the nature of the phenomena seems to change each time the predominant theory about it starts to strain credibility. From fairy rings to airships to spaceships and back to fairy rings.

Because the field is largely humourless. The TV news laughs at UFO reports because they're funny. They're silly and weird. If you don't think so, you're not looking at all of the information.

Because each time the scientific community investigates the phenomena the come up with mostly nothing.

Because the field eats its young. It's filled with the same territorial, ego-maniacal, dudes that populate a thousand other failing industries. People who are terrified of change and new ideas are not welcoming people.

Because in six decades its proved to be little more than a hobby belief system-- like practicing magick or taking recreational drugs--it may do wonders for the individual believer, but just gets confusing when projected upon the whole. It's another way to add importance to your life, and it's okay to use it as such, just stop insisting that there is only one "right" way to do it.

Because when you question the old guard, when you question what's gone before (60 + years of anecdotal evidence), you're shouted down. This situation is playing out perfectly right now. This field tends to judge personalities over evidence.

Because whenever research runs into a dead-end, or an assumption that would prove a negative, there's always someone to blame. The Government, the trixter, MJ-12, the Illuminati. Holding on to the cases that can easily be explained by official explanations destroys the field.

How to get young people involved?

Open the doors wide. Throw out old prejudices. Learn to laugh. Say you might be wrong. Welcome new ideas. Welcome new advice. Centralize ideas. Take a lesson from media in the recent years-- instead of having tons of mini-gatherings all over the world, have a few big ones (San Diego Comic Con). Stop pushing agendas that hurt other human beings, no matter how right you think you are.

Thanks,

I welcome comments, criticism, additions, etc.

-T

 

[tyder001]

Good points and as somebody who was a teenager and in my early twenties when the 70's ended I'll have to add this. I don't remember (I graduated in 76) being all that interested as far as researching and following ufo stuff in my teens and twenties. I was interested in the paranormal to an extent but mostly it was mainly drugs, sex and rock and roll on my young mind back then. So, it's not all that suprising to me that you don't have a flock of 18 year olds doing ufo research. Still, I really meant it when I said overall you make good points.

---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 PM ----------

Quick note: Statue of limitations has expired. :redface: on uhhhh, certain things. 8)

 

[Ezechiel]

I see new and refreshing approaches to the subject.
People such as Leslie Kean and Michio Kaku are slowly defining the parameters under which the subject of UFOs can be seriously addressed in the media.

As the veil of ridicule is finally replaced by an armor of credibility, I expect a critical mass of high profile people to come forward and start asking the right questions and even contribute with their personal experiences. Also, don't forget that space exploration initiatives (Kepler telescope...) are also pushing the boundaries of what questions can be publicly asked without being ridiculed.

It used to be 'we can't see any planets... Therefore we are alone' A statement that obviously reassures any establishment that feeds on the idea of human supremacy in this physical world.

Understanding UFOs is obviously the final blow to any earth-centric ideology and should be part of current full scale efforts to map new potential life-bearing planets.

One reason why the U.S. doesn't have a publicly funded UFO investigation organization : a positive result would be too close to home plus the fact that our only protection is self annihilation (Ufos and Nukes )

 

[RJHark00]

Thanks, Timx13. I agree with much of what you've said here, most likely because I have a similar background to yours: I'm about the same age and grew up with an interest in the paranormal, particularly UFO's, and digested the pop-culture of the 1980's and 90's. Though I have never seen a UFO or anything else paranormal, my interest goes back as long as I can remember and I've read a lot of the more visible books (e.g. Keel, Hopkins). I've been listening to the Paracast for several months (and going through old episodes) but just joined the forums because I was really interested in this topic from the 5th anniversary show also. What I like about the Paracast is that the hosts and most of the guests aren't hung up on ETH or their own

I say all of this up front because my knowledge of "ufology" is admittedly limited; I'm still learning some of the names that go back and forth on the show. But my background for the past several years has been in academia, and I believe there are a lot of unflattering parallels between academic turf-wars and what it sounds like is going on here. Most people who get into teaching fall in love with the idea of making a difference, or coming up with a new idea, but--even though this can be done--these aspirations get lost in the tedium. Maybe it's just the characters involved in ufology. I'm not sure. But, it seems very hard to get a foothold in as a young person. Another, related problem is that much like some quarters of academia, I think ufology has become self-serving. I think rather than repeat some of the old crap we see on cable (perfect example: Roswell. I never want to see another show about Roswell or, more importantly, have people's imaginations limited to those parameters) , we need to try to talk about things that make the subject relevant to a larger audience. I liked the "gee whiz factor" the guys talked about. It truly is an amazing universe and the fact that people feel some sort of connection with each other, the cosmos, etc. is part of the wonder!

 

[jimp]

Great post, timx13. You pretty much said it all. We can't control a lot of aspects of Ufology: the high percentage of hoaxes and fakery, the miniscule amount of actual evidence, the lack of scientific proof, etc. But we -- and I say "we" as if I am one of "them" or "us", though I am really just a guy who stumbled upon an interesting topic and feel like spouting some bullshit about it -- we can control other aspects of the field. Stop dismissing peoples experiences and ideas out of hand. Stop shitting on newcomers who ARE excited and enthusiastic -- the only people who will survive this kind of hazing will be cast-iron assholes who also enjoy shitting on people. Stop turning threads into pissing matches after two or three earnest posts. Actually, I could be talking about any interest group with an online presence these days -- and online is where the majority of ufology interaction is taking place.

Ghost hunting seems to be popular these days -- and why would that be? I think people feel like they could replicate or imitate the ghost hunters on TV and maybe come up with similar results. They even sell ghost hunter "kits", with EVP devices and what-not. I am very skeptical about the data produced during ghost hunting -- it's undoubtedly real physical phenomena, but I'm not sure I would jump right over prosaic explanations and go right to "supernatural". However, would I like to use some of that ghost equipment, get together with some friends, and try it out for myself? You bet I would -- it sounds like a blast! So what could Ufology offer to young people that is similar to that? I have the idea that some of the ghost hunting technology could be used in monitoring for UFOs -- this would fit especially well into the idea that perhaps UFOs and the so-called supernatural are expressions of the same phenomena -- electromagnetic energy, spontaneous production of energy from the zero-point vacuum, other dimensions, etc.

I dunno -- just some thoughts.

-- Jim

 

[Paul Kimball]

I have long said that the reason few young people seem interested in UFOs is simply because, in the grand scheme of things, UFOs just aren't very important. Many of the things mentioned by jimp make it even harder to get them interested, but at its core, I think that's the main reason. My own experience is along those lines - I didn't start to take an interest in UFOs until 2001, when I was 34... and only then because I was producing and directing a documentary about Stan Friedman. Even now, my interest in UFOs is peripheral to more important things, like living my life.

Ufology as it exists is fading away largely because even when it comes to the question of ET, there are far more interesting ways to study it now, through mainstream science. Not the idea that they're coming here, of course, but rather the idea that they might be out there. I think most people are happy to start with that. As silly an effort as it may be, to paraphrase Stan, SETI has captivated many more people than ufology because it's rooted in science, and because it hasn't made promises that it can't keep, nor claimed to have the "one true path" to discovery.

 

[Kieran]

I agree with Paul the phenomenon is not something that effects us from day to day. So this subject is never going to attract the young generation it needs. Until the day. The UFO phenomenon does show up, and reveal to everyone their agenda to all six billion of us important humans The UFO field will not ever attract a bigger audience, both young, middle or old.

The only reason I am involved is I have experienced stuff that I can't ever explain truly. And my friends can't be bothered with the UFO subject, as they do not know, if it could be real or not. Explaining my sightings to them, and other UFO sightings to them is fine like, but it does not effect them on a scale, like were they want to talk about this subject every day like i do.

In all honestly we are bit crazy all of us who talk about the UFO subject. We keep discussing the same UFO cases, over and over again with no end game at the end of it!! What is even more frustrating is the fact, most of us, do believe the Phenomenon is genuine, but the UFO phenomenon does not respond in kind back to us. It simply ignores our responses very cheeky.

That drives me nuts personally. I hate to think I will be on sites like this in the far future taking about the same cases that have happened sixty years ago.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

I enjoy the UFO topic of military history and science inquiry which is 'good reading' of credible academic and some non-academic researchers. UFO scene is like other trends in human interests it will have high and low points. Also its a break from everyday life , so have yourself a beer, nachos and listen to the Paracast and Dark Matters its good for your IQ

 

[Jeff Crowell]

I would have to add that cultural differences, a difference I see in my own 13 year old daughter and her friends, add to the problem. Granted it's only a very small sampling, here in the Midwest at that age group, but it's a valid sample, I believe.

Kids are short-attention'ed thanks in part to media such as YouTube and such. I think that a lot of the younger generation who may become interested in research into UFO phenomena do a lot of their research online via YouTube, and we all know how unreliable, discredible, and weak that material is. It's a disturbing trend, but when someone is curious about a topic this is how they start, and sometimes end, their research. They just watch it on YouTube and see pretty quick that most of this material is false and fabricated. This, in turn, leads them to conclude that the whole of research into UFO's is false and fabricated. All this YouTube and Internet force-feeding leads to an inherent laziness where people fail to actually go out in the field and conduct any kind of genuine research on their own.

Something needs to happen to get kids off their computers and iPods and into the actual field. They need to learn the "old skills" of the interview, face-to-face contact, how to gather field samples, and look at anecdotal evidence with a critical eye. This might light the spark in some but that would almost require a tutoring program for these few younger members to learn these actual skills. Of course that could lead to the problem mentioned previously on this thread; bias-ness on the part of the tutor which could lead to discouragement on the part of the student. It's a daunting task.

Also, back in the 50's through the 70's, there was more of a societal interest in the space program and encouragement toward hands-on research. We're not in those days, any more. As I said "research" is mostly online, and going outside to tromp around a field or actually talk to people (as opposed to chatting or instant messaging), is nearly unheard of these days.

These are broad-reaching views, I know, but I see them as being underlying problems as to why the younger generation doesn't care as much about the paranormal in general.

My 2 pennies.

 

[hak]

This isn't exclusive to UFO phenomenon.. you see it in other areas as well (I've noticed it in my karate experience). The common beliefs are that UFO's are fake and therefore, if your involved in the phenomenon.. or discovery, your aligning yourself with kooks. That can spell disaster for any professional. With search engines and Facebook, people posting every event online... it is much easier to track a potential employee for a potential employer. Now, even our personal lives (if performed over the internet) can be reviewed quite easily.
There is criticism from your peers, if your a geek, or enjoy science it is a strict no since skeptics are suppose to be more "reality based."
It's not safe to be involved in this field.

 

[Ezechiel]

This isn't exclusive to UFO phenomenon.. you see it in other areas as well (I've noticed it in my karate experience). The common beliefs are that UFO's are fake and therefore, if your involved in the phenomenon.. or discovery, your aligning yourself with kooks. That can spell disaster for any professional. With search engines and Facebook, people posting every event online... it is much easier to track a potential employee for a potential employer. Now, even our personal lives (if performed over the internet) can be reviewed quite easily.
There is criticism from your peers, if your a geek, or enjoy science it is a strict no since skeptics are suppose to be more "reality based."
It's not safe to be involved in this field.

That should get lots of kids involved in this field lol. A good analogy is 'Neo uncovering the Matrix'.

Discovering external forces/entities that potentially manipulate human puppets (or genetic experiments lol) would be enough to stimulate young minds. This is ultimately what UFOs are really about regardless of any experienced visible phenomena. The recognition of real entities operating at higher levels than us, the recognition of a potential foe without the ability to respond to an alien aggresssion.

 

[timx13]

Great replies! Thanks!

It's interesting how the phenomena is changing as we keep staring at it. It's becoming something that is highly personalized and rare.

I've seen a UFO once, but in the strictest definition of a UFO-- a flying object that I could't identify. I've never had any kind of abduction experience, no ghost experiences, no psychic experiences. As a whole I'm living a pretty normal life--though I have had an interesting magickal experience. But, from all of my reading and listening about this subject...and trying to wade through the personalities and get to the data, it really feels like it's an old phenomena. Possibly a wholly psychological one, or one that can only manifest by using the laws of physics, which could be one reason why pretty much all abduction "evidence" can be explained prosaically.

I believe that people are experiencing something. Is it aliens? Doubtful. If it is they're the worst scientists ever.

I honestly don't believe that it's something that will ever break through and be important to the mainstream world. If it's an amazing, transcendental experience that some people have, it's an extremely rare and personal one--no matter if it's perceived negatively or positively.

There should, however, be a place where people who experience something of this gravity can go to without being hurt or taken advantage of, and as long as "UFOology" keeps the path it's on, that's never going to happen.

 

[Ezechiel]

I believe that people are experiencing something. Is it aliens? Doubtful. If it is they're the worst scientists ever.

The human body is an amazing construction Imagine for a moment that an alien civilization has instantiated the human construct (based on primates) a few million years ago, tweaked and exposed it to all kinds of adversity (ie. biological... etc.) until the moment where it is resilient enough to support their infrastructure. Their own synaptic model (brain) is finally transferable to human builds and our civilization is almost instantaneously replaced .

This kind of scenario would make a great movie, imho a much better spin off than 'invasion of the body snatchers'.

The implications of such a scenario are stunning and have never been portrayed in any Hollywood movie... I don't recall any scenario where the biblical sequence of events has been challenged (I may be wrong) or replaced by nefarious intents.

Guaranteed entertainment

 

[jimp]

You damn kids get off my crop circle!

*******

A lot of what is being discussed on this thread are reasons why anyone -- not just young people -- would find it difficult to really get into UFOs. The researchers I enjoy reading and listening to approach the subject as a springboard for thought experiments: what-if scenarios that have ramifications in philosophy, psychology, anthropology, etc.

Very few have either the inclination or talent for field investigation: people with either a journalism or perhaps a law enforcement background. Personally, I find the idea of making face-to-face contact with complete strangers very intimidating. Still, there isn't a lot of hard evidence for field researchers to investigate -- and most seems to lead to dead ends.

Still, I find the speculative and pure theoretical aspects of UFOs -- and other paranormal and esoteric studies -- fascinating. But I would seem to be in a sub-group of a small and shrinking group.

Here is a fun site from David Chalmers, "Professor of Philosophy, Director of the Centre for Consciousness, and an ARC Federation Fellow at the Australian National University." (Wikipedia)

http://www.consc.net/zombies.html

He uses "philosophical zombies" as an antidote to physicalism in philosophy of mind and consciousness studies.

This is a fascinating use of a paranormal phenomenon as a metaphor in a philosophic argument.

 

[tyder001]

Zombies and philiosophy whuts not to love? Add in aliens and beleivers and materilist and if ya can find a tall Nordic blonde of the female persuasion ya got a winnah! Uhhh, I actually added that last part cause I like to think of tall blonde....Uhhh, but I digress.

Buy the bye some of the links are out of date but I'm gonna explore the page when I have more time.

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 PM ----------

I enjoy talking about the paranormal. I can have fun even though I might not "beleive" everything I read about. Maybe that's why I lean more to the believer side. Not because I actually "believe" but because most of the skeptics like Jimmy Randi and Mikey Schermer just are no fun at all. They are the flip side of Pat Robertson and Jimmy Swaggart. Now, I hope I've mananged to offend most of the folks with a burr up their ass about the paranormal.

Of course there is also a serious side and I am interested in finding the "truth" although I am very "skeptical" about anybodies truth I've heard so far.

 

[hak]

I enjoy the thought experiments, and learning from others in the community. I haven't found that anywhere else.

 

[maxwell]

"Because whenever research runs into a dead-end, or an assumption that would prove a negative, there's always someone to blame. The Government, the trixter, MJ-12, the Illuminati."


...see, all that stuff is real. denial is a deterrent if people don't have anything that their BELIEF in...is greater than the official policy, which is lies. the new blood is here.

i fell asleep through the x-files. it was boring, and i knew that the truth was stranger than fiction.
i also know about NIXON from history: i don't need to be convinced that the United States Gov't is a liar that compulsively denies.

they aren't all seeing, or all knowing, either. that's what illusion they project to gain obeisance...and fear...
and the combination of obeisance and fear has turned most of the world into repressive little Bushheads -- people who don't look into that if the system tells them not to.

there are controversies within controversies, and people also get sucked into the divide and conquer.

it's the edge of exploration, and when the story finally breaks it will give way to a new edge in exploration.

the most prominent people right now in the area -- prominenent and successful -- remain Michael Salla and Richard Greer.


Holding on to the cases that can easily be explained by official explanations destroys the field.

 

[getepe]

Hello all,

I've been a member of the forum for several months, and a listener of the Paracast for about a year, but haven't posted earlier because I'm not sure I have anything new to add to the discussions (well, until now....)

I think one reason younger people aren't as interested in the UFO field is because we've been conditioned to accept the idea of alien civilizations. It's been 45 years since the original Star Trek debuted, and since that time we've had the Star Trek franchise, Star Wars, the Stargate franchise, and countless sci-fi movies (Close Encounters, E.T., etc). Since the eighties the grey's have become the most common image of an alien (with the possible exception of the aliens from "Alien" & "Predator") -- in fact, they're even the good aliens in the Stargate series -- so it might be that the idea of visitors from another planet/dimension/time is somewhat old hat.

If I wanted to sound really paranoid, I'd suggest that the Government is behind it all, getting us ready for when they tell us E.T. is here. With the recent demonstration of how they can barely put together a budget, it doesn't seem possible for them to construct and carry out a plan that complex).

Getepe