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UFO Debates

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U

uforadio

Paranormal Adept
Decided to create mutual thread for UFO Debate videos (not to create single thread for every new piece - I also have request for moderator if it is possible to merge previous threads on the same note - "Randle vs Klass" and "Dewars Debates" - with this one.

So, the series continues :)

Gary Heseltine vs Chris French (not my upload):

 
Our debate series continues :)

Following pieces were discussed in the past on Paracast forum at this thread:
Friedman and Klass on Nightline | The Paracast Community Forums

Nightline video was available in the past, but in the meantime, original uploader removed the piece, but luckily, at the time I archive it.

So here they are again - preserved and saved for the future :)

Friedman vs Klass on Nightline - part 1 of 2

Friedman vs Klass on Nightline - part 2 of 2

Best Wishes.
 
Nice one posting this, as you say, for posterity. This Klass guy just sits there when Stanton is talking with a really smug look on his face. Really, the least any skeptic could do when agreeing to appear on such a show to represent the skeptical viewpoint, which is of course valid to a degree - as much as the other anyway - is to take it seriously and not act like he has better places to be. If he has better places to be, let someone else do it, someone who will attack the data.
As Stanton often says, if they can't attack the data, they attack the people. I think in these debates, ufologists should concentrate on those cases with multiple witnesses and viewpoints, film and radar recordings etc. These cases are very hard to explain. For instance, Japan Airlines over Alaska, a recent sighting in the English channel by two independant pilots working for seperate airlines. I would like to see Mr Klass call Gordon Cooper an average eye witness, and I wonder what his explanation for the alleged landing the film crew working for Mr Cooper saw at Edwards AFB. I know Mr Cooper only claims to have looked at the raw film before it was taken away, but he also had sightings when he was an active airforce pilot. Mr Klass, tell this American Hero he cannot be relied upon as a witness - funny that, that NASA considered him trustworthy enough to go into space?
Nice post.
 
Another great Billy's article. This time he writes about latest affair where it is alleged that Klass offered a bribe of 10.000 $ to Steve Pierce. I reported on it on February 5th on my private list but it was forwarded all over the internet and ended on other lists and forums:
Travis Walton Encounter: George Knapp C2C 1-29- 2012
Other follow ups and replies from Travis are on the same thread. Of course uploaded audios inside thread are not active any more as ADrive keeps links only for 14 days.

And this is Billy's article that touches the same issue:


Source: Billy Cox' Blog De Void
http://tinyurl.com/8793hjt
Monday, February 20, 2012
　
Klass Act, No Principles
by Billy Cox
A blast from the past animated the blogosphere earlier this month when a buddy of famed Fire In The Sky UFO abductee Travis Walton accused a dead debunker of attempted bribery.
Steve Pierce said he - Pierce - had been offered $10k to say Walton had hoaxed the whole thing back in 1975.

more on the link...
 
New updates. Robert Sheaffer replied about allegations of Phill Klass' 10.000 $ bribe.​
​
And here is the PUNCH LINE. Sheaffer states that (in red):​
​
the accusation does not come from Pierce, but instead from Mike Rogers, Travis' best friend, and future brother-in-law. ​
- end of quote -​
​
The point here is that PIERCE INDEED has confirmed this personally so it is a first-hand allegation. Pierce talked about it on COAST TO COAST SHOW from January 29th. Probably, Sheaffer hasn't followed the whole buzz with much detail or hasn't read post in whole.​
​
Of course, other arguments that Sheaffer writes about Pierce should be pointed directly to Pierce. I bet it would be interesting to hear his side of the story too and further exchanges/debates about this.​
​
So the Saga continues :)​
​
Here is the article link:​
​
​
Travis Walton vs. Philip J. Klass​
One of the best-known UFO abduction stories is that of Travis Walton. He claims that on Nov. 5, 1975, as he and six others were returning from a day's work cutting logs in Arizona's Sitgreaves National Forest, he was zapped by a beam of light from the UFO, and taken aboard the craft for five days. His story won $5,000 as the Best UFO Case for 1975 from the National Enquirer, has been the subject of several books, as well as the Hollywood movie Fire in the Sky (1993).​
​
(more at link...)​
 
One can find that interview on YouTube anyway's. Was Travis abducted by nonhumans? Well, i think its fair to say he got more then he bargained for,and it was silly of him, to have approached this alleged object without knowing what it was first!

There's nothing conclusive if all we know "Jack Rabbit" could if came out of the forest that night and have taken him away. We're trusting the reliability of Travis account after he went missing. But Travis was laying on the ground knocked out unconscious neither him or the other men saw what took him. Circumstantial evidence, however points to the UFO been the reason behind Travis disappearance.

I'd still be hesitant to believe Travis is right on the money with everything he says happened to him aboard the UFO. An ordeal like that is bound to confuse the mind with images real and imaginary. Meeting bald headed aliens and blonde humans on board the UFO sounds wonderful and all really convincing considering what came before this, but is there truth to it? Did Travis just make make up the story to explain were he went to for those few days. Maybe he remembers nothing who's to know? Better to have a story then nothing at all!
 
I know its easy to say from the comfort of the lounge, but if i were to find myself in Travis's alleged sitution i'd like to think i'd do the same, ie approach and try and learn more.
 
The saga continues:

Source: A Different Perspective: Billy Cox and Philip Klass

Friday, February 24, 2012

Billy Cox and Philip Klass


Billy Cox, over at the Herald-Tribune has written a short piece called, “Klass act, no principles,” (see Klass act, no principles | De Void). In it he suggests that Steve Pierce, a buddy of Travis Walton, he of Fire in the Sky and abduction fame (see here at the 2011 Roswell Festival), had been offered, by Klass, ten thousand dollars to say that they had hoaxed the whole thing.

My first reaction was to reject this idea because, even for Klass, it seemed a bit excessive. And then I thought back to the long article I had posted here about Klass and his attacks on witnesses and researchers and his attempts to make their lives miserable. For a full analysis, see my September 11, 2011 blog entry about Klass’ letter writing campaign.

(more at link...)
 
Latest piece from Randle:

Source: A Different Perspective: Philip Klass, Travis Walton and Steve Pierce, Part Two

Saturday, March 03, 2012

Philip Klass, Travis Walton and Steve Pierce, Part Two


Once again Philip Klass has stirred controversy and he didn’t even have to do anything himself. All of this started, for me, with a column by Billy Cox in which he mentioned the story that Klass had offered Steve Pierce, one of the witnesses of the Travis Walton abduction, ten thousand dollars to say the case was a hoax.
​

Some have been angry at me for accepting the story. As I mentioned then, my first reaction was to reject it, but then I remembered some of the other things that Klass (seen here with his fans) had done in his efforts to debunk everything UFOlogical (yes, it is hyperbole, but what the heck, it’s not the first time that one side or the other has engaged in hyperbole).

<snip>

More at link...
 
Tim Printy shortly comments the affair in his latest SUNlite issue that can be downloaded here:

http://home.comcast.net/~tprinty/UFO/SUNlite4_2.pdf

Comment is at the bottom of page 2 in the section "Who's Blogging UFOs?"


Robert Sheaffer strikes back:

Source: http://badufos.blogspot.com/2012/02/...al-ufo_24.html

<snip>

Travis made a big thing about the accusation that Philip J. Klass had offered Steve a bribe of $10,000 to say that the 'abduction' was a hoax, that I recently wrote about. That accusation originated with Travis' pal Mike Rogers back in 1978. When Klass read the book where that claim was made, he phoned Pierce, who told him that he thought the abduction was a hoax, but he could not prove it. Klass recorded this phone interview, as he did every significant interview, and later sent a copy to Karl Pflock upon request. Pflock quoted other comments made by Pierce suggesting a hoax. But that was not Steve's story today: absolutely yes, Klass tried to bribe me. He flew out to Texas to wine and dine me and try to persuade me. He kept following me, I had to move to like three different states, to get away from him. Of course, there is no proof that this 'new version' of Pierce's story is correct, no photos of Klass and Pierce together, no documents of any kind to back up this implausible tale.

<snip>

more at link...​
 
Just sent it on my list (it is relevant for people who are outiside of UK because ITV videos can be watched only within UK IP's:

Dear colleagues.

This is the download link of the audio from the debate between Gary Heseltine and Chris French about the Rendlesham incident from that ITV video that was reported today by Dave (uploaded over Adrive):
http://www.adrive.com/public/NkHsUd.html

Credits go to Dave Haith who just sent me the file and I upload it over Adrive for the list.

I am still trying to solve the video but until then this is the great solution so far to hear how the debate went.

For any problems with the download let me know.

---- UPDATED:

Video problem is now solved. Thanks to Dave Haith for the lead

Video is now available for users outside of UK on good old Youtube. Here is the link:
Downloading now and archiving the physical file.

Best Wishes to everyone.
 
Kieran said:
One can find that interview on YouTube anyway's. Was Travis abducted by nonhumans? Well, i think its fair to say he got more then he bargained for,and it was silly of him, to have approached this alleged object without knowing what it was first!

There's nothing conclusive if all we know "Jack Rabbit" could if came out of the forest that night and have taken him away. We're trusting the reliability of Travis account after he went missing. But Travis was laying on the ground knocked out unconscious neither him or the other men saw what took him. Circumstantial evidence, however points to the UFO been the reason behind Travis disappearance.

I'd still be hesitant to believe Travis is right on the money with everything he says happened to him aboard the UFO. An ordeal like that is bound to confuse the mind with images real and imaginary. Meeting bald headed aliens and blonde humans on board the UFO sounds wonderful and all really convincing considering what came before this, but is there truth to it? Did Travis just make make up the story to explain were he went to for those few days. Maybe he remembers nothing who's to know? Better to have a story then nothing at all!
Click to expand...


None of that explains that all the men saw the saucer - if that part is true, I find the rest easy enough to add on! 6/7 were conclusively not lying with the lie detector too. Remember also it was documented that the men thought the saucer was to blame long before Travis came back.
My 2 cents! :)
 
Howard Blum vs Phil Klass
with Frank Drake and Don Schmitt
December 5th, 1990

The source is italian UFO archivist, however his version was out of audio sync and almost completely unwatchable. I merged his videos and repaired the audio sync.
 
Latest update about Steve Pierce's saga from Kevin Randle's blog:

Source: http://kevinrandle.blogspot.ca/2012/07/steve-pierce-and-travis-walton.html

Saturday, July 28, 2012
Steve Pierce and Travis Walton
Several months ago the story that Philip Klass had attempted to bribe one of the witnesses to the Travis Walton abduction made its rounds. I took a somewhat middle of the road stance, suggesting that I could believe that Klass might attempt something like that, but that the evidence for it was rather thin. I now have additional information.

There were, in essence, two people who know the truth about this. One, Philip Klass is dead and the other, Steve Pierce had not been readily available for comment. However, on July 1, 2012, at the Roswell UFO Festival, I had the chance to sit down with Steve and get his side of the story. What follows is what he told me then.

--- read the rest of the post at site ---

Check up also opposite possibilities and arguments at the bottom within post comments.
 
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