The reason for UFO secrecy - all of it!

[Goggs Mackay]

I think in my original post i have slightly misled people in some of my opinions - not deliberately though! I am not at all sure that we have back-engineered any recovered UFO or indeed, have invented anti-gravity of our own. Yes, anyone person or company who discovers some 'generic free-energy' device would indeed have something of almost unlimited value. However, the existence of such a technology does not make THE TRANSITION from our current mostly fossil-fuel based energy economy. It would be extremely difficult to not radically alter the status quo especially financially speaking, and again it is my 'follow the money' mantra that leads me to believe those who could possibly have the most to lose from altering our energy economy are the exact people who have the most chance of preventing any such radical change from happening. When you own the casino and can deal any deck you like, you pretty much have total control of who wins and loses financially.
I believe it has been said several times on the paracast that if any government had their hands on some alien super-advanced technology, it may indeed be expecting too much of even someone of the genius of Da Vinci to succesfully back-engineer such technology by now, even if they had such tech in their hands since, say, the late 40's.
And, if I am correct in that the powers-that-be not wanting to have any radical change in energy creation but them still wanting to research said technology then it follows that the research would have to be conducted on the most secret basis ever, ever conceived in human history.
This would make it extremely difficult to do quietly and would neccessitate very few people being cleared to work on it. Anyone with half an idea of what it takes to create, say, an iphone will realise it takes literally HUNDREDS of first-class minds working for a long-time with a lot of help to have something like an iphone, which is pretty much the state of the art. So, how hard would it be to back-engineer something that may be hundreds of years ahead of what we know now? We may be talking about such game-changing stuff as Newtonian, Einsteinian and quantum physics. How often does the brains and genius to really change the paradigm come along? And if a black budget research facility is tasked with explaining how a UFO actually works and is controlled - it just may be way too big an ask, especially whilst under such secrecy.
Science, in the main is always a group activity requiring open sharing of ideas and research etc. I just don't see such back-engineering if it is being attempted having had anywhere near enough time to produce tangible, workable results that are as far as even a prototype. I believe it more likely someone somehow got their hands on a UFO and have learned through trial and error, how to fly the thing. I say again, I think it is just too soon to expect any secret research to have anything near like worked 'it all out'.
I must say that if some of the well known UFO reports are true, and that these craft are capable of astounding acceleration, right-angle turns at high speed and such like, well anyone with half an understanding of how inertia works will realise that these craft are operating not only on some completely different power-source but are also completely BREAKING what we think are physical laws....
For those of you who maybe do not know much about physics, when you turn a corner in your car at even around 40mph, you feel pushed against the side of the car that is opposite to the direction of turn. What is actually happening (described by Newton a long time ago) is that your body was happily going in a straight direction before turning. Turning the car does not actually mean your body suddenly wants to change direction, no, it needs to be forced and it is the seat and frame of the car that forces you away from the direction it was happily going in the first place.
That feeling of being pushed against the side of the car? Well you know how strong you feel it when you take a corner too fast? Well, fighter pilots have to have suits that actively squeeze the blood in the lower half of the body up to the heart and brain when executing a high-g turn. It takes someone in tip-top condition to even stand a moderate turn in a fighter jet. What is being reported as flight characteristics of some UFO's is a quantum leap away from that paltry g-forces. Never mind a human body or biological entity of any strength, we could not build something of solid metal that could remotely stand the inertial forces that must come with instant acceleration. In fact, I think, there can be NO way of standing such forces for any structured, controlled craft. Therefore, I believe, such craft must be completely in their own created inertial field, in other words, just not 'playing by the rules of physics' as we know it. Uh-uh, it HAS to be just so far removed from what we understand of physics I think without outside help, It may be a long time to come before we discover the secret of those tricks of the universe.
But flying round our planet in a mach-5 jet was once so far ahead of even the greatest minds to even conceive of, but we did indeed get there. I fully believe the secrets of our interstellar travellers will one day be ours. When? ah, well, who knows? Maybe THEM?
I'd like to mention that although I believe the average Paracast listener to be above-average intelligence, intelligence comes in many forms and not everyone thinks like a scientist or engineer. For those of you who knew all this stuff, I did not mean to condescend, but just maybe someone understood a little more than they did before, and that's why we are all listeners of the Paracast, isn't it?
Gordon Mackay

 

[trainedobserver]

So true but you prepare to fight the ones which have not started yet!

Exactly. The development of sound, light, and beam weapons have been going on for decades and we just now seeing some deployment of them. Space platforms with microwave projectors could already be in orbit for all we know. The development and maintenance of the alien/ufo mystic in concealing the development of exotic aircraft and weapons cannot be easily ignored. At the very least it has muddied the waters a great deal.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I still struggle with the idea that some incredible energy breakthrough is being withheld for economic reasons. Any company holding the patents to such devices would create an industry that would eclipse the fossil fuel industry but certainly not replace it. Oil is used for more than just the creation of energy. Also, nothing says the oil companies would not be the one holding these patents in the first place. It would benefit them greatly to be the creators of a new energy revolution. Think of the money to be made in the regulation of a new energy source.

What do we actually have? Big business still seems to think that using nuclear fission to boil water is a good idea although it is poisoning the planet and causing horrible illness for generations to come. We spend an incredible amount of energy just extracting fossil fuels from the ground and poison ourselves in the process. If someone is sitting on clean, inexpensive, and revolutionary energy producing systems they are criminally stupid and or insane. It makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

RE: 'criminally stupid and or insane' - yes absolutely it is that. but surely you are aware that that is exactly how governments often act? no-one is saying what they are doing should make sense to us lesser mortals!

 

[Goggs Mackay]

As i said in my original post i dont think it has anything to do with economics ( altho i agree i have no way of knowing this for sure ) . The statement often used by the military is " UFO's are not a threat to our national security" , and thats not really denying the presence of UFO's, is it ? They are avoiding to give a straight answer becouse, in my opinion, dont know what the heck they are but at the same time they know that they exist. Quite simply i think its emberrasing for the military that they dont know anything about it and that they dont have any defences against it. I think a plausible explanation is that they want to buy as much time as they can figuring this out before revealing it to avoid causing anxiety among the public. The notion that the goverment is capable of holding something like this secret for as long as they want implies that they have a say in what the UFO's does while on earth, theres no way of avoiding that

so i dont really think its a "secret" per ce , but more that they want to avoid the subject for as long as possible, before revealing it.

I am one of the many listeners who has held top secret codeword clearance, from working in British Intelligence. Nothing I ever had access to was remotely concerned with UFO's but I can say this for sure: governments absolutely can and do keep secrets for long periods of time. As is often reported, the major tool available to governments to gag people who may have been exposed to certain facts during the course of their classified work, is to basically quote to you the fact that you signed some sort of legally binding secrecy agreement. I know I did. In addition to a criminal conviction and possilby jailtime, monetary benefits can be witheld quite legally in the case of someone breaking their secrecy oath. Most long-term military people actually stay in the military for a long, or the maximum, time because of the pension it gives them. If you think of the 'thanks' people get for speaking out (which is basically none) and add to that the possibility of that long worked-for pension being denied legally, then it is quite obvious how powerful a dis-incentive that could be to prevent someone talking.
I learned certain things during my military service (none of which were earth-shattering) which to this day could cause considerable embarrassment at the very least to my own nation and I have no intention of ever revealing such information. Firstly, because I agreed not to and I like to think that a certain trust was put in me and I would feel bad about breaking that trust. Secondly, the legal problems could be major. Thirdly, again the monetary issue and last but not least - what would be the upside for me personally? A pat on the back by some foreign power?
There will be quite a lot of other people who were cleared to know what I was told but I expect them to have the same reasons as I for not revealing such facts. So, these secrets may be known by quite a number of people but that is very different from them being public knowledge. My point again is that big secrets are being kept right now and most likely will stay that way. The bigger the secret in some ways, the more things are put in place to keep them secret. So not only can secrets be kept, HUGE secrets can most certainly be kept.
On a different note, it is a cause of some personal regret that when I had the chance to ask very qualified and experienced radar operators if they had ever seen any weird uncorrelated tracks, it actually never crossed my mind at the time! Never underestimate the power of a human NOT to ask the right thing at the right time!

Gordon Mackay

 

[Bergen]

I am one of the many listeners who has held top secret codeword clearance, from working in British Intelligence. Nothing I ever had access to was remotely concerned with UFO's but I can say this for sure: governments absolutely can and do keep secrets for long periods of time. As is often reported, the major tool available to governments to gag people who may have been exposed to certain facts during the course of their classified work, is to basically quote to you the fact that you signed some sort of legally binding secrecy agreement. I know I did. In addition to a criminal conviction and possilby jailtime, monetary benefits can be witheld quite legally in the case of someone breaking their secrecy oath. Most long-term military people actually stay in the military for a long, or the maximum, time because of the pension it gives them. If you think of the 'thanks' people get for speaking out (which is basically none) and add to that the possibility of that long worked-for pension being denied legally, then it is quite obvious how powerful a dis-incentive that could be to prevent someone talking.
I learned certain things during my military service (none of which were earth-shattering) which to this day could cause considerable embarrassment at the very least to my own nation and I have no intention of ever revealing such information. Firstly, because I agreed not to and I like to think that a certain trust was put in me and I would feel bad about breaking that trust. Secondly, the legal problems could be major. Thirdly, again the monetary issue and last but not least - what would be the upside for me personally? A pat on the back by some foreign power?
There will be quite a lot of other people who were cleared to know what I was told but I expect them to have the same reasons as I for not revealing such facts. So, these secrets may be known by quite a number of people but that is very different from them being public knowledge. My point again is that big secrets are being kept right now and most likely will stay that way. The bigger the secret in some ways, the more things are put in place to keep them secret. So not only can secrets be kept, HUGE secrets can most certainly be kept.
On a different note, it is a cause of some personal regret that when I had the chance to ask very qualified and experienced radar operators if they had ever seen any weird uncorrelated tracks, it actually never crossed my mind at the time! Never underestimate the power of a human NOT to ask the right thing at the right time!

Gordon Mackay

obviously you know more about this than i do, i can only go with a gut feeling. I do however think my "statement" was taken a bit broadly. To be more specific; i think the military/gov can hold a secret, obviously. But ( i think ) theres a difference between holding a secret that is known to a small number of people in the know and a massive secret like this for decades. And as suggested by many there would have had to be hundreds if not even thousands of people involved over that time , and if , as this thread suggests , private industry is involved even more people can be added to this number ( that i base on nothing but my own reasoning).

So, if the military simply holds a secret stash with good video, maybe even a craft etc. then sure , they could hold that secret. But the thread suggests that they have a HUGE operation in place for back-engineering etc. involvin not only the military but private buisness as well. And no, i dont belive all that time could pass with all those people involved and not a sinle credible insider ( not including someone who heard or saw something ). IF there is secrecy i think it would have to be a very small circle of people . thats just my thoughts on it.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

obviously you know more about this than i do, i can only go with a gut feeling. I do however think my "statement" was taken a bit broadly. To be more specific; i think the military/gov can hold a secret, obviously. But ( i think ) theres a difference between holding a secret that is known to a small number of people in the know and a massive secret like this for decades. And as suggested by many there would have had to be hundreds if not even thousands of people involved over that time , and if , as this thread suggests , private industry is involved even more people can be added to this number ( that i base on nothing but my own reasoning).

So, if the military simply holds a secret stash with good video, maybe even a craft etc. then sure , they could hold that secret. But the thread suggests that they have a HUGE operation in place for back-engineering etc. involvin not only the military but private buisness as well. And no, i dont belive all that time could pass with all those people involved and not a sinle credible insider ( not including someone who heard or saw something ). IF there is secrecy i think it would have to be a very small circle of people . thats just my thoughts on it.

You know mate, I cannot disagree with anything you actually said. Like with a lot of these topics, we have no definitive proof either way and therefore, what can only speculate on what might be true and we all will come down a little different in our interpretation of that speculation.
We, I think, agree there is truth to the core phenomena but as to exactly how big the UFO thing really is, if it is actually ET's we are dealing with etc, there are a whole lot of differing interpretations as to what's going on e.g the government is quite aware of ET's existence but does not have contact and not too much more solid info than the best informed UFO buff. Or that the have active contact and are being helped in some degree with the technology. Or that they have recovered a craft and have succesfully back-engineered the craft.
All these are differing interpretations of the whole phenomena. In my own personal opinion, I believe most people in government are uninterested professionally and personally in the topic and only a select few civil servants are ever 'read-in' to the knowledge/project/state of awareness. In addition the minimum possible number of high-ranking military officials would be in the know with the civilian research and manufacturing sector being used very selectively, with compartmentalisation. When any UFO incident happens that needs an actively-military response, those few troops needed would be used, made to swear secrecy on pain of legal, financial and employment problems. As long as these UFO incidents are not too common, then you would be surprised how little people could actually deal with the incident and keep the public in the dark. I mean, as an example if a 30fit disc was recovered actually less than 5 troops could succesfully recover, and transport under cover the disc to a secure location. Remember, very few people would actually see it with their own eyes, and it is known who these few people are, making it easy to find out who leaks come from.
Anyone else's tale of this would be dismissed as hear-say and there are plenty of these stories and they are not taken too seriously.
So I believe that through this deliberate rationing of exposure to all of this truth to a select few it could be relatively easy to keep this from public exposure. The information is out there, it is where we are interested about hearing from. The main stream media has been conditioned to think it is no big deal, not worthy of serious treatment etc and it's no surprise members of the public, even if they do believe in UFO's do not let it rule their lives and don't
even think about getting involved in trying to get the truth of the matter out.
The subject has so expertly been treated with scepticism, humour, derision and importantly, occasionally seriously - and that is the clever bit- just enough to muddy the waters so that if the subject is anything at all, it is muddled and not at all clear-cut. Which is precisely the situation you would wish to engineer if trying to cover something up that is huge. The biggest secrets are the ones paradoxically the hardest to believe whilst actually being true. It is just my opinion that this is the way things are.
There are so many things we cannot be sure of but for me, the evidence that seems to be the most credible, leads me to believe this is roughly the way things are right now with the state of the UFO issue by anyone in government.
I would be interested to hear feedback on any points which may have glaring holes that I have missed, I am sure it happens to all of us in this field.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Another quick point. When people say 'but how can the government keep such a big secret for so long?'
Well, the answer is that they cannot and they have not been able to fully keep it secret. Just take the rendlesham case. There were quite a few military personnel involved and some of them are talking about it. By all accounts, this was a serious case and despite those involved being told not to talk about it and also the UK/US governments denials of there being any 'defence significance' in the case, the fact is we know about the case and some of those involved are alive and are talking.
Also, there are some other government and military and private sector individuals who have spoken on the subject. So really, the whole subject could never be kept completely secret, simply because the governments cannot control who sees what in the sky, what they can do however, is as i've said before, muddy the waters enough so that the majority of the public has enough doubt about the subject to be able to push all critical thinking on the topic off of their own mental 'to-do' lists.
IT IS A SECRET. IT IS BEING KEPT. Just not completely though.

 

[boomerang]

Personal testimony from people at high levels is on record live never before. The problem is filtering and making sense of it. What bugs Joe Average, like myself, is the disposition of recorded evidence--radar tapes, film etc.--that we know from hearing credible testimony should be tucked away somewhere. Unless, of course, its has been strategically nullified by the phenomenon itself.

And here is one of those forks on my imaginary flowchart. Which is more likely--that world governments have been able to store this stuff in a leak proof manner for decades, or that it has been "handled" by something "other" ? It's sort of like a choice between two types of paranoia.

 

[Trajanus]

im saying that IF there is a secrecy i dont see how the "powers that be" could hold that secret without the aliens beeing in on it , since the aliens could simply land a craft in Paris and that would be it. The gov would have no way of controlling that

I think both parties have their own reasons for keeping things secret. The aliens may have some nefarious agenda, while the government, not yet able or wiling to deal with them effectively, thinks disclosure now would just cause pointless panic or worry. I very much doubt the "cooperation" implied above, given all the evidence for mutual hostility.

 

[trainedobserver]

Historically, it does appear that the various UFO phenomena have always been in control of when they are seen and by whom. Since whatever is behind these things appears to be in control of many aspects of experiencing them, it only naturally follows that any disclosure of information (whatever form it takes) about them is under their control as well. If you take some of the reports seriously then you get the picture of devices that are capable of either influencing the human mind directly or manipulating the human central nervous system to achieve a similar result.

If this is true then what is the disclosure that is coming from the phenomena? What is the information communicated through these experiences? I think you get a handful of consistent messages: "Human beings are not at the top of the food chain." and "There is an impending catastrophic event." Also, if you take some of the more life, love, and light messages seriously you get the message of "An impending human evolutionary transformation." However, this may simply be a reaction to the first two messages I've mentioned. When faced with the fact that we are not little gods in dominion over all the beasts of the field, we may be seeking to transcend the horror of knowing someone may be sitting over us as we have sat over lesser beings of our planet. Will they bag, tag, and make pets and food of us? Not if we can somehow miraculously leapfrog a few million years and evolve in a single lifetime. Uh-huh.

The real question is probably, "Can we trust or correctly interpret anything the phenomena, or our governments for that matter, communicate to us about these things?" The contradictory and false messages we get from both seem to say no we can't. If so, then how do you proceed from there?

 

[Trajanus]

Historically, it does appear that the various UFO phenomena have always been in control of when they are seen and by whom. Since whatever is behind these things appears to be in control of many aspects of experiencing them, it only naturally follows that any disclosure of information (whatever form it takes) about them is under their control as well.

Dunno; crash reports suggest not only vulnerability in some cases, but proof held by the government with which it can do what it wants independently of ET.

 

[trainedobserver]

Dunno; crash reports suggest not only vulnerability in some cases, but proof held by the government with which it can do what it wants independently of ET.

Something that that seems to be pretty apparent is that it isn't all coming from a single source. So I don't think we should assume a consistent level of technology or methods across the board. Some may be more vulnerable than others.

I think you have to take several things into account when evaluating the alleged crash reports, not the least of which are U.S. counter-intelligence operations. It's hard to decide what to take at face value and what might be part of terrestrial spy-network flushing out activity.

It seems that whatever is behind these things can pretty much pick and choose whether it wants to leave something behind or not. For them to allow anything of theirs to remain laying about it seems to me that it most likely means it was done intentionally. I'm sure that whatever is behind UFOs isn't all-powerful, all-knowing, and perfect. They would have to make mistakes, experience equipment failure, have moral problems, and have their own political mess to deal with, but it could be that those things are completely outside of ability to comprehend or perceive. These things really do seem to be a couple rugs further up the ladder than we are and their problems may be as foreign and incomprehensible to us as our social and economic problems are to house flies.

I do think its more a game of controlled perception from both sides. There is a lot of what amounts to slight of hand with the accompanying misdirection by which such things are accomplished. From all indications the controlled perception of the UFO situation extends not only to the general public but into the institutions whose charters would naturally include their investigation. While it seems obvious part of that is coming from the human side of things you really do have to wonder, how much of it isn't the result of a sophisticated alien counter-intelligence effort? That presumes they give a hoot what we think, which in all reality they probably do not.

 

[Trajanus]

Something that that seems to be pretty apparent is that it isn't all coming from a single source. So I don't think we should assume a consistent level of technology or methods across the board. Some may be more vulnerable than others.

Yes, absolutely. Some craft seem like jalopies compared to others.

It seems that whatever is behind these things can pretty much pick and choose whether it wants to leave something behind or not. For them to allow anything of theirs to remain laying about it seems to me that it most likely means it was done intentionally.

Depends on the degree of vulnerability. The US just lost a good drone to Iran, and couldn't do anything about it. Few would argue that was intentional. In addition, crash reports often include fatalities.

I'm sure that whatever is behind UFOs isn't all-powerful, all-knowing, and perfect. They would have to make mistakes, experience equipment failure, have moral problems,

Sure. There is certainly much evidence of it.

and have their own political mess to deal with, but it could be that those things are completely outside of ability to comprehend or perceive. These things really do seem to be a couple rugs further up the ladder than we are and their problems may be as foreign and incomprehensible to us as our social and economic problems are to house flies.

Dunno. We're light years ahead of ancient Greece technically but still operate in some ways they'd find recognizable--diplomacy, alliances etc.