Pentagon UFO Study - Media Monitoring

[Nina Garfinkel]

Hi Nina,

Thanks for putting up this link to Mellon’s OpEd piece. I checked on the Comment section which now has 1300 comments, and the very first one I read answers Mellon’s question for him. I quote the comment:

Go to this organization's website, and you quickly see that along with the UFO division, they have one on telepathy and another one called "Entertainment," promoting their sci-fi properties.

Credibility begins to slide about then.

Maybe the Pentagon doesn’t care because To the Stars has no real credibility, or maybe it’s the very lack of credibility of TTSA that the Pentagon wants to keep them in the business on non-disclosure. Either way, TTSA remains funny and entertaining, though it’s starting to get real boring now.

Interesting and gratifying that the Comments section has 1300, some indication of the level of interest in the subject. Have no real interest in TTSA as it seems a bit dubious as a serious organization dedicated to scientific inquiry, something I, along with many others would greatly welcome. That said, it often seems the subject is lost in a hall of mirrors of "those who know, won't say and those who say, don't know." Speculation runs rampant and yet, the phenomenon/a persists, elusive and mysterious as ever.

 

[Realm]

Here's a couple of screenshots from the WP video. The one on the top left has the best bird shape. The one on the bottom right shows how much detail is lost while the target is being tracked.


But you should really look at the video in slow motion, as the apparent flapping motion seems even more significant.

Use your browser zooming to scale that bigger. I didn't process these images in any way other than copy-pasting partial screenshots together.

The positive thing is, this new video really can help explain the physics of these UFOs. The key doesn't seem to be anti-gravity but feathers.

 

[SRL+]

Are you just repeating what you read over at MetaBunk?

Lol... no, as any reasonable individual’s response would be in listening to the audio. Why would anyone need METABUNK or anyone else for that matter to grok the obvious?

 

[SRL+]

Here's a couple of screenshots from the WP video. The one on the top left has the best bird shape. The one on the bottom right shows how much detail is lost while the target is being tracked.


But you should really look at the video in slow motion, as the apparent flapping motion seems even more significant.

Do you have anything larger than the thumbnail provided?

 

[Realm]

Do you have anything larger than the thumbnail provided?

That was the actual size when I took the screenshot in full screen mode on FHD screen. I think that's about max that the video can offer. Use your browser zoom (ctrl and +) to scale it larger.

 

[Hollywood Tomfortas]

Interesting and gratifying that the Comments section has 1300, some indication of the level of interest in the subject. Have no real interest in TTSA as it seems a bit dubious as a serious organization dedicated to scientific inquiry, something I, along with many others would greatly welcome. That said, it often seems the subject is lost in a hall of mirrors of "those who know, won't say and those who say, don't know." Speculation runs rampant and yet, the phenomenon/a persists, elusive and mysterious as ever.

Nina, your next to last sentence reminds me that we are totally neglecting the religious/spiritual dimension of this Phenomenon while being transfixed on the “nuts and bolts” materialistic manifestation of it.

You’ve inspired me to start with the original of your quote from Chapter 56 of the Tao Te Ching of Lao Tzu
Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 56

Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know.

Keep your mouth closed.
Guard your senses.
Temper your sharpness.
Simplify your problems.
Mask your brightness.
Be at one with the dust of the earth.
This is primal union.

He who has achieved this state
Is unconcerned with friends and enemies,
With good and harm, with honour and disgrace.
This therefore is the highest state of man.

 

[Hollywood Tomfortas]

Speculation runs rampant and yet, the phenomenon/a persists, elusive and mysterious as ever.

And now to address your last sentence, I have found the most profound writer on the mysterious and deeply unnerving entanglement of the material with the psychic with the spiritual in the matter of UFOlogy is Charles Upton.

I quote from the very end of a long article he wrote in 2011 as an update of his notable book of 2005 called Cracks in the Great Wall: UFOs and Traditional Metaphysics

UFOs, Mass Mind-Control, and the Awliya al-Shaytan, by Charles Upton [An update of Cracks in the Great Wall: UFOs and Traditional Metaphysics; Sophia Perennis, 2005] « Sophia Perennis


“I remember when, as a child in the late 1950’s, my family and I used to gather on our patio at night overlooking San Francisco Bay to view the Perseid meteor shower, which takes place in August. Gazing up at the starry sky for hours, my mind would wander to the subject of flying saucers; I had the distinct feeling that if I wished hard enough I could make one appear—and I don’t think I am alone in this fantasy, which seems to be one aspect of the “UFO archetype” in collective belief.

Years later, meditating with my eyes open just after sundown on Mt. Shasta, California, I saw two distinct and vivid points of light crossing the twilight. Startled, I came out of my light meditative trance: the lights were no longer there. So I settled back into meditation—and there they were again. That’s when I came to the conclusion that UFOs are objective realities—by which I mean actually out there in space, or in one sort of space—and also psychic realities, in the sense that one could peer into the dimension proper to them by altering one’s consciousness.

In conclusion—leaving aside for now the possibility of organized demonic invocation to usher in the Antichrist, which not every reader will accept, to say the least—I believe that UFOs and alien contact are both very real phenomena and elements of a modern myth that has been partly created, and certainly widely manipulated, by various governmental and globalist forces for their own purposes.

Until the UFO debunkers take the hard evidence for the reality of UFOs seriously, and the UFO believers do the same with the hard evidence that their conception of the phenomenon is being manipulated by people who do not have their best interests at heart, no sort of scientific, or psychological, or political objectivity will be possible with regard to the UFO phenomenon and its profound effects upon the human race.”

 

[Realm]

Aliens R Us

No obvious means of propulsion.

 

[Randall]

Ok, let's try to crunch some numbers.

The various values of significance seem to develop as follows over the duration of the video with my current understanding what those signify and what units they use (please correct me if you interpret them differently), and converted to SI units to ease calculations:

time: 220-254 seconds
laser rangefinder distance to target: 4.4-3.3 nautical miles (8149-6112 meters)
closing velocity (relative speed to rangefinder target): 220-150 knots (113-77 meters/second)
calibrated airspeed 252-258 knots (130-133 meters/second)
altitude 25000-25010 feet (7620 meters)

sensor aimed 35-58 degrees left of aircraft axis, 43-58 degrees during target locked
sensor aimed 22-35 degrees below aircraft axis, 26-35 degrees during target locked

from 220-237 seconds aircraft close to level (within 5 degrees), then mostly around 15 degree left turn

field of view: NAR, Zoom factor 1.0, apparently 1.5 degree FOV

Vertical distance from aircraft to target at the beginning and end of tracking:
sin(26 degrees)*8149m = 3572m
sin(35 degrees)*6112m = 3506m

Edit: We can probably get a bit better estimates if we assume normal rounding rules and look at those moments when the rangefinder estimates just changed from 4.4->4.3 and 3.5->3.4. In both cases the angles also changed quite soon after, so we can assume something like .4 for them. With those, the estimates would be:
sin(26.4 degrees)*8056m = 3582m
sin(34.4 degrees)*6390m = 3610m
Making it even more probable the object stayed pretty much at constant altitude, at around 7620-3600=4020m.

Which means the altitude is pretty constant and around 4100 meters from sea level. That's definitely not "very low over the water" as the TTSA claims!

With a 1.5 degree FOV, the area the view covers (horizontal and vertical) at those rangefinder distances is:
tan(1.5 degrees)*8149m=213m
tan(1.5 degrees)*6112m=160m

It's tricky to see how many pixels that tiny blob takes on the screen as the video quality isn't that good. The object seems to be somewhere close to 2-3 meters relative to that view size, but it's so blurry it's hard to say. In any case, it doesn't seem to be anywhere close to what the Nimitz tic tac was, just like I initially suspected.

Initially when the camera is pointed 44 degrees left, and the jet is moving at 130m/s, the horizontal speed of the jet towards the target is:
130*cos(44)=93.5 m/s

Since the camera is pointed 26 degrees down, the overall speed towards the target is:
93.5*cos(26)=84 m/s

At the end with camera 58 degrees left, 35 degrees down, the horizontal speed towards the target would be:
133*cos(58)=70.5 m/s

And overall speed towards it:
70.5*cos(35)=58 m/s

Closing velocity should indicate how fast the objects are closing each other:
Calculate closing velocities

So the rangefinder indicates they are closing in each other at 113-77 m/s, and the portion of the jet going towards the target is 84-58 m/s, which means the target speed towards the jet is 29-19 m/s.

The target is on the left side of the jet at 43-58 degrees, and the angle seems to increase and distance decrease even when the jet is turning a bit towards the right at one point. So it seems the jet is about to go past it and starts to turn towards it. Everything seems to indicate it's actually going quite slowly.

Seems like those at Metabunk as well "Dr. Emil Schaffhausen" on the YouTube comments of that video have come to similar conclusions as I above. That is, the object is actually flying high and slowly, and is quite small. I also have to agree with Metabunk that balloons (if only we knew the wind direction) and large birds would be plausible explanations. That means, the TTSA really dropped the ball on this one, claiming it's flying low and fast. And they were supposed to have learned from past mistakes...

Nice work Realm!

 

[Randall]

Nina, your next to last sentence reminds me that we are totally neglecting the religious/spiritual dimension of this Phenomenon while being transfixed on the “nuts and bolts” materialistic manifestation of it.

You’ve inspired me to start with the original of your quote from Chapter 56 of the Tao Te Ching of Lao Tzu: Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 56

• Those who know do not talk.
• Those who talk do not know.
• Keep your mouth closed.

Notice how the above is also the first three most important things to keep in mind when dealing with Chinese political system. that is unless you want to find yourself a non-voluntary organ donor.

 

[Nina Garfinkel]

Nina, your next to last sentence reminds me that we are totally neglecting the religious/spiritual dimension of this Phenomenon while being transfixed on the “nuts and bolts” materialistic manifestation of it.

You’ve inspired me to start with the original of your quote from Chapter 56 of the Tao Te Ching of Lao Tzu
Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 56

Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know.

Keep your mouth closed.
Guard your senses.
Temper your sharpness.
Simplify your problems.
Mask your brightness.
Be at one with the dust of the earth.
This is primal union.

He who has achieved this state
Is unconcerned with friends and enemies,
With good and harm, with honour and disgrace.
This therefore is the highest state of man.

Thank you for posting this. Exactly. I read the Tao Te Ching many years ago. I think the religious/spiritual dimension of the phenomenon is not so much inherent in the phenomenon itself, but in how it affects those who have some sort of experience of it. I would suggest there are witnesses (and I confine my comments to "sighters" rather than to those who claim abduction, as I have come to believe that is about something else entirely) who are untouched by their sighting, in that it doesn't alter their world view or open up new lines of thought, and those for whom seeing something they can't explain (and hasn't been satisfactorily explained by others either) does both.

 

[Nina Garfinkel]

That sou

And now to address your last sentence, I have found the most profound writer on the mysterious and deeply unnerving entanglement of the material with the psychic with the spiritual in the matter of UFOlogy is Charles Upton.

I quote from the very end of a long article he wrote in 2011 as an update of his notable book of 2005 called Cracks in the Great Wall: UFOs and Traditional Metaphysics

UFOs, Mass Mind-Control, and the Awliya al-Shaytan, by Charles Upton [An update of Cracks in the Great Wall: UFOs and Traditional Metaphysics; Sophia Perennis, 2005] « Sophia Perennis


“I remember when, as a child in the late 1950’s, my family and I used to gather on our patio at night overlooking San Francisco Bay to view the Perseid meteor shower, which takes place in August. Gazing up at the starry sky for hours, my mind would wander to the subject of flying saucers; I had the distinct feeling that if I wished hard enough I could make one appear—and I don’t think I am alone in this fantasy, which seems to be one aspect of the “UFO archetype” in collective belief.

Years later, meditating with my eyes open just after sundown on Mt. Shasta, California, I saw two distinct and vivid points of light crossing the twilight. Startled, I came out of my light meditative trance: the lights were no longer there. So I settled back into meditation—and there they were again. That’s when I came to the conclusion that UFOs are objective realities—by which I mean actually out there in space, or in one sort of space—and also psychic realities, in the sense that one could peer into the dimension proper to them by altering one’s consciousness.

In conclusion—leaving aside for now the possibility of organized demonic invocation to usher in the Antichrist, which not every reader will accept, to say the least—I believe that UFOs and alien contact are both very real phenomena and elements of a modern myth that has been partly created, and certainly widely manipulated, by various governmental and globalist forces for their own purposes.

Until the UFO debunkers take the hard evidence for the reality of UFOs seriously, and the UFO believers do the same with the hard evidence that their conception of the phenomenon is being manipulated by people who do not have their best interests at heart, no sort of scientific, or psychological, or political objectivity will be possible with regard to the UFO phenomenon and its profound effects upon the human race.”

 

[Nina Garfinkel]

That sounds like an interesting book. You might like "The Resonance of Unseen Things: Poetics, Power, Captivity and UFOS in the American Uncanny," by Susan Lepselter. I reviewed it a few years back for a small press book review I sometimes contribute to. Speaking of entanglement, I just came across a piece briefly describing (as simply as possible) the Holographic Theory of the universe, the essence of which (I think) is that the 3D universe may be a holographic projection of an underlying 2D reality. It also takes in quantum entanglement, which, if a for-real thing, may also underly the "unnerving entanglements" you mentioned. Bottom line for me: there are mechanisms at work that we have no understanding or even awareness of. Are UFOs part of this? The answer is, we just don't know.

 

[Erno86]

The aerial object appears to be definitely not a bird like an albatross. The oval-shaped bogey appears to be traveling very close to the water on a straight line vector course; that has excited the pilots and myself as well upon seeing this video.

 

[SRL+]

Could be a pelican ...

 

[Hollywood Tomfortas]

The aerial object appears to be definitely not a bird like an albatross. The oval- shaped bogey appears to be traveling very close to the water on a straight line vector course; that has excited the pilots and myself as well upon seeing this video.

Well, TTSA is beginning to fight back against the Big Bird Theory (not to be confused with the Big Bang Theory).

I was reading Facebook group that was discussing the video and trying to debunk Metabunk. Someone reported that Gary Nolan, the Chief Geneticist at TTSA stated the following on the AATIP FB page (which I could not access)

Gary Nolan wrote:
“I am getting some of the other background information that 'debunks' West's silly reply. First bit of information... the speed of the object was 300-400 knots (about 350 to 460 miles per hour). As measured by radar.. So goddess help that "bird" should it ever hit the water at such a speed! The wind drag alone would rip off it's feathers! LOL."

In the immortal words of both Groucho Marx and Bugs Bunny:
“Of course you know this means war!”

SO LET THE MUD-WRESTLING BEGIN! YEEEEEE-HAWWW!!!

 

[Realm]

Someone reported that Gary Nolan, the Chief Geneticist at TTSA

Shouldn't they consult an ornithologist first? Isn't it a bit premature to consult a geneticist when we are not even sure of the species?

the speed of the object was 300-400 knots (about 350 to 460 miles per hour). As measured by radar..

So he is claiming they have radar data? That is apparently in conflict with the data that is shown by the instruments of the jet on video. And if they had such radar data, why didn't they track it with the radar then?

Since they claim all the background information was removed in the release approval process, why would a consulting geneticist of a private company know something like radar data that is not in the clip? Elizondo isn't supposed to reveal any classified/secret data to anybody, right?

I'm calling bs on his claims, for all those reasons.

So goddess help that "bird" should it ever hit the water at such a speed! The wind drag alone would rip off it's feathers! LOL."

Luckily it wasn't anywhere close hitting the water, since it was flying at around 4 kilometers = 13100 feet.

 

[DROBNJAK]

There is a pattern to all well publicized cases, that after the initial release of the case, suddenly there is a torrent of misinformation coming in that completely obfuscates the case. Think Rowswel. We can't now even tell on what date it happened, not to mention what was the shape of craft, weather it had propulsion or not etc. Or we can ad Paul Benovitz case to that. Or in UK there is Berwyn mountains, North Wales UFO crash.

Practically, if public discovers too much of good stuff, than intelligence agencies swoop in spreading misinformation and muddling the waters.

That is a reason why I personally now only research less publicized, but still very detailed cases, by ufologists that had been in the field for very long time and have a good reputation. Like I just discovered Margaret Fry, UK ufologist.

Once case hits big media it gets 'photoshoped' to death.

 

[Hollywood Tomfortas]

Shouldn't they consult an ornithologist first? Isn't it a bit premature to consult a geneticist when we are not even sure of the species?


So he is claiming they have radar data? That is apparently in conflict with the data that is shown by the instruments of the jet on video. And if they had such radar data, why didn't they track it with the radar then?

Since they claim all the background information was removed in the release approval process, why would a consulting geneticist of a private company know something like radar data that is not in the clip? Elizondo isn't supposed to reveal any classified/secret data to anybody, right?

I'm calling bs on his claims, for all those reasons.


Luckily it wasn't anywhere close hitting the water, since it was flying at around 4 kilometers = 13100 feet.

Brother @Realm! I have boldly infiltrated Metabunk as an Uninformation Agent and told Mike West about the Nolan claim. I just copied your reply above and posted it there, but in true Uninformant fashion, I did not identify you and may not even know who I am anyway, so no laws were broken.

Also, some enterprising nimrod on Metabunk just wrote this
"GO FAST" Footage from Tom DeLonge's To The Stars Academy. Bird?

It's moving about 1 degree per second, which at a range of 4 nmi is about 290 mph relative to the sensor, which happens to be moving at about that speed.

 

[Realm]

suddenly there is a torrent of misinformation coming in that completely obfuscates the case.

Yes, misinformation published by the TTSA.

Since they are now apparently trying to "debunk" actual calculations that reveal their many mistakes, I think it's in order to look at their claims in more detail.

I'm quoting this page:
2015 GO FAST FOOTAGE

GO FAST is an authentic DoD video

Again, we just have to take their word for it, since they once again didn't provide any (CoC) documents.

that captures the high-speed flight

My earlier calculations indicated it moved towards the jet at speeds of:
29-19 m/s = 42-65 mph = 68-104 km/h
Since it most likely didn't fly directly towards the jet, the speed is likely somewhat faster. In any case, we are talking about typical speeds for birds, not aircraft.

Note though that the speeds in question don't take winds into account. That also applies to the "calibrated airspeed" that is displayed in the video, it doesn't reflect the true ground speed as far as I understand it. Which means, with those sorts of relative speeds, if suitable winds had affected the jet, the target could as well have been stationary and all the movement could be just illusory due to the movement of the jet. So much for "GO FAST". Also note that since the jet and the target were at different altitudes, the wind directions and speeds can be significantly different for them.

of an unidentified aircraft

Reminds me of my dear friend, Albert "Aircraft" Albatross:

Coincidentally, Albert is also trying to track down an unidentified aircraft. He would like to sue the crew that hit his eye with a laser rangefinder. He has promised a fishy reward for information revealing their identities.

at low altitude

Low as in 4km = 13100 feet.

The really embarrassing part of their claims of low altitude is that it is so obvious it doesn't fit to the other information they themselves are stating:

The F/A-18 Super Hornet is at 25,000 feet altitude, 259 knots (~300 mph, Mach 0.61), and in level flight. The sensor is aimed 22 degrees below the horizon and 36 degrees to the left of the F/A-18’s direction.
...
At the right of the screen, the rangefinder denotes that the object is at 4.4 nautical miles (5.1 statute miles) slant range.

As I mentioned before, altitude of 25,000 feet is 7620 meters and the rangefinder figures the video shows, 4.4-3.3 nautical miles is 8149-6112 meters. It should be patently obvious that looking at something at 22 degrees with those distances is nowhere near the water. Heck, even looking straight down wouldn't be anywhere close to water for what the rangefinder shows at the end of the clip.

While TTSA was the first to obtain a copy, it should be available to any member of the press or public via the Freedom of Information Act.

So now they are telling us directly that they have a copy of the original (and not just their modified marketing version) and instead of providing that to us, they are telling we and the media should file FOIAs? Why? Why can't they provide the original themselves? It's declassified and gone through all the necessary processes, right?

GO FAST was selected for release, like GIMBAL and FLIR1, after review by multiple government organizations.

Not a surprise they don't name any. What sort of review? Selected by whom? From which set? Are they telling us the whole government is full of incompetent organizations and individuals who can't follow basic math, or logic?

The object in this video remains unidentified.

Sure, the quality is not good enough to be sure it was Albert. But basically that is just a blanket statement which doesn't really tell us anything what sort of efforts have been made to identify it.

The operator expresses excitement at having successfully captured the object and the sensor is tracking it.

Which sounds more like they were practising to use those sensors. Why was it pointed towards that direction in the first place? What were they doing? What were their conclusions? We don't know any of that stuff.

Also, why should we expect them to be able to identify the object, a tiny blob on their screens, within those few seconds they saw it on their screens, with presumably about the same quality, on a moving plane, while trying to operate their instruments and all?

It is important to note:

There are no obvious wings or tails on the object. Even IR imagery of a cruise missile, would have visible wings at this range.

Except that, as mentioned earlier, there seems to be visible wings. Also, why didn't they show an IR image of a cruise missile from that range then? Why do they expect us to just trust their words on everything, instead of providing evidence?

Btw: If you want to take a better look at that UFO that flies slow as a bird, high as a bird, looks like a bird and flaps like a bird, at least Chrome allows you to copy that (Washington Post version of the) video to your own computer when you press the right button on the video while it's playing and select "Save video as...". Then you can open it with some video player that allows slow motion playback, such as the freely downloadable VLC Player (you can change playback speed with + and - keys).

There is no exhaust plume from the object.

Also known as bird farts. And actually you can also see some sort of "exhausts" from the object on slow motion, but it's likely really just movement of air or video artifacts.

Figure 2 - Infrared imagery of known aircraft shows features and characteristics clearly different than the object in the GO FAST video

Does this look like a fair comparison:

To this:

Honestly, that comparison is a joke. Not jokingly, that comparison is not honest.