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New Moon Thread

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BrandonD

Skilled Investigator
Ok before I state the premise of this thread, I'd like to offer a free lesson on psychology and the successful sociopolitical strategy known as "discrediting a legitimate conspiracy".

Hypothetical scenario: Let's say that there are individuals who occupy very high positions of world power, and that these individuals are involved in occult ritual practices. One of the motivations behind these occult practices is the attempt to communicate with "non-human entities".

This would certainly not be something that these highly-respected individuals would want to get out to the public, especially in a largely-christian culture. So how can this threat hanging over their collective heads be effectively neutralized?

One method, which has worked time and time again (and again and again) is to widely publicize a rumor that GREATLY EXAGGERATES the controversial topic. In this way, the average man is dissuaded from even approaching the idea for consideration.

In the given hypothetical scenario, the false rumor might be that these same high-ranking political officials participate in occult practices, and during these practices they *turn into reptilian aliens and eat people*.

Viola! The danger has been completely neutralized, thanks entirely to our culture's ever-present fear of being thought of as stupid or gullible by his fellow co-worker at the water cooler. Now no man would publicly touch anything remotely related to this subject.

Ok, those of you who are clever enough to read between the lines probably already see where I'm going with this. There is *something* legitimately shady involved in the Apollo programs.

I'm not speaking from some sort of authority on this. I would not consider myself a visual expert as David deems himself. But I went to school for digital illustration/graphic design, and since then I've been working in the graphic design field with software such as photoshop for about a decade. So I'm not exactly joe six-pack off the street. And I find the arguments very compelling supporting the premise that many photos associated with the Apollo program were in fact taken in a professional studio on earth.

But honestly ask yourself, what does everyone know about this subject?

**We never landed on the moon!** That is all anyone hears!

The theory's been derided so many times on this radio show that it's become pathetic. Please discard it. It's the equivalent of saying that ufos are greys from zeta reticuli, which is basically taking a legitimately strange item and exaggerating it so that it's discounted.

Lesson 1:

YOU DO NOT BEGIN WITH A THEORY AND TRY TO PROVE IT.

Instead, in true scientific fashion you discover something that does not harmonize with prevailing ideas, and you begin there. It may imply some things, but it does not necessarily prove anything.

The most important problem with the Apollo program is that there exists strong evidence to support that several of the most well-known photos associated with it were taken on earth, in a professional studio.

Does this mean we didn't land on the moon? No.

Does this mean we landed, but wanted to hide what was on the moon? No.

What does it mean? It means that the photos were faked. For unknown reasons. That's all that can be concluded with confidence.

I can understand how someone might hastily conclude from this that we didn't land on the moon, but that conclusion is REALLY jumping the gun and making alot of assumptions.

But even resting on the photographs alone, shouldn't this interest people? Our government participated in deceiving millions, something on that scale CERTAINLY must have been for some significant reason! I don't know what that reason is, and we won't reach that point until people start screwing their head on straight and stop looking at things with such a black/white mind-set! This type of thinking is the hallmark of the poverty of western intellectual thought!

In fact, my starting hypothesis was that this was just a relatively benign case of marketing strategy - our government officials were just "glitzing up" the space program with nice fake glossy photos to garner greater public support. That is, until I noticed the ABSOLUTE REFUSAL by intelligent people to even approach the topic. It was only then that I considered that there might be something more to this subject, because I know through observation and personal experience that this sort of complete blindness is something that is often externally conditioned.

People can see conditioning and blindness in everyone else, but never in themselves. We always consider ourselves immune.

So this thread is for any intelligent person who wants to approach *specifically* the topic of the Apollo photos that have been presented as possibly fake. What is your position on the photos? Do the arguments supporting their artificial nature hold water in your mind? Why or why not? I am genuinely interested in another thinking person's opinion. It doesn't matter if you're not involved in the visual or photographic fields, I find that any thinking person can offer a unique and useful perspective.

Non-thinkers need not apply.
 
The most important problem with the Apollo program is that there exists strong evidence to support that several of the most well-known photos associated with it were taken on earth, in a professional studio.

Which photos are these?
 
I don't have a problem with their having been faked to glitz up the Apollo program. Except I wonder why NASA would feel the need in the first place. I watched with rapt attention all airings of the Apollo Mission footage back in the day. Our moon landing was all the rage so I suppose faking some pictures, for whatever reasons, might have been part of the glitz to keep the public in support of future mission goals.

But if they were faked for that reason, why not just admit to it, especially after all this time? Why NOT admit it? Conspiracy theorists will have their hey-day one way or the other anyway. Except that an admission such as that might call into question NASA's integrity. Gee, it wouldn't be as productive as I thought.

Another line of thought, Apollo missions were eventually scrapped though all the equipment for their completion was in order and waiting for deployment. Could be that political and budget considerations within the current administration at the time simply became more important. The shouting over Viet Nam was ramping up. Maybe we couldn't sustain the excitement of our grand experiment in lieu of the killing fields.
 
maybe we should view the original photos and video tape... oh wait... they are missing.
 
Paranormal Packrat said:
The most important problem with the Apollo program is that there exists strong evidence to support that several of the most well-known photos associated with it were taken on earth, in a professional studio.

Which photos are these?

Since I'm not having luck with embedding video, have a look at the video embedded in my comment (page 21) on the moon hoax thread. This video is a clip from a British documentary which analyzes some of the most well-known of the photos. I'd consider that a good place to start, and I'd be interested in what you think about it.
 
BrandonD said:
Paranormal Packrat said:
The most important problem with the Apollo program is that there exists strong evidence to support that several of the most well-known photos associated with it were taken on earth, in a professional studio.

Which photos are these?

Since I'm not having luck with embedding video, have a look at the video embedded in my comment (page 21) on the moon hoax thread. This video is a clip from a British documentary which analyzes some of the most well-known of the photos. I'd consider that a good place to start, and I'd be interested in what you think about it.

I've also been having problems embedding vids.

I'll relook at that thread for the vid you are referring to. Everyone I've looked at so far can be explained by mundane means.

Why the new thread btw? Other one get locked? Guess I'll find out when I go look.
 
I just looked. One of your vids didn't show up, but one did. The vid I watched has already been dealt with in that thread hadn't it? I recall seeing it and commenting on it, but maybe it was elsewhere. At least one of those researchers in the vid has been caught fudging data and has been discredited. The guy with the beard and full head of hair, I forget his name.

I'm not positive if the exact image is dealt with here since it's been awhile since I checked, but if you haven't read through this page I highly recommend it.
The Moon Hoax Debate

At the very least, the arguments used in one of the vids you posted are addressed there. The lighting source etc.
 
Paranormal Packrat said:
I just looked. One of your vids didn't show up, but one did. The vid I watched has already been dealt with in that thread hadn't it? I recall seeing it and commenting on it, but maybe it was elsewhere. At least one of those researchers in the vid has been caught fudging data and has been discredited. The guy with the beard and full head of hair, I forget his name.

I'm not positive if the exact image is dealt with here since it's been awhile since I checked, but if you haven't read through this page I highly recommend it.
The Moon Hoax Debate

At the very least, the arguments used in one of the vids you posted are addressed there. The lighting source etc.

That video hasn't been dealt with, at least not that I know of.

I went to that website and read it. We'll hold aside the other issues he brings up for now, because this thread is specfically about the presumed faked photos.

Here is the quoted explanation from the website you referenced, regarding the lighting issues in the photos:

"Many Apollo photographs show lighting "hot spots", as well as a darkening of the surface toward the horizon. Sunlight should not produce hot spots, nor should the surface fade in an airless environment.

The "hot spots" are the result of the lunar soil's tendency to reflect light back toward its source. There are many reasons for this, but it is mostly due to countless tiny glass spheres found in the lunar soil, and formed by meteorite impacts. When you see a photo taken "down sun", away from the Sun, you see what looks like a spotlight around the shadow's head. This is because the light is strongly reflected back toward the Sun, so the soil around the head of the shadow looks very bright. This phenomenon also explains why the surface fades so drastically toward the horizon. It is brightest near the foreground due to sunlight being preferentially reflected back toward the camera. Farther away, the sunlight is preferentially reflected away from the camera, making the ground look dark. This phenomenon can also be observed in wet grass on Earth, as spherical water droplets act like the glass spheres. The technical term for this phenomenon is Heiligenschein, and is the result of light refraction, reflection, and diffraction on the surface of and inside the glass spheres and/or water droplets. This Apollo 11 photo is very good example [see photo] of Heiligenschein."

First of all, did anyone who read this explanation actually *look up* Heiligenschein? Well I did. It turns out that Heiligenschein specifically refers to a photographic effect which creates an intense lighted area around *shadows*. In addition, the intense glow around these shadows occurs when the sunlight is behind the photographer.

Look at the photo of the astronaut referenced in the video which exhibits the peculiar "fall off" spotlight characteristics.

1) There is NO shadow in the brightly lit area.

2) The sunlight is in front of, and to the right of, the photographer.

So...Heiligenschein is actually completely inapplicable to the photo! Gee, it makes you wonder why a smart guy such as the guy on the referenced website wouldn't be aware of something that took me all of 5 minutes to research...

Please notice what is taking place here, because this website's technique is repeated EVERYWHERE, and it can be a valuable thing to recognize. These "complex explanations" given by authority figures have a very specific function. They target the average man who's been brought to question the dominant worldview for whatever reason. These complex explanations serve to overload the rational mind that led the man to question the status quo, and thus give that man an easy and painless means of returning to the consensual world-view, where it is more comfortable. Basic psychology.

This technique exists in all controversial topics (9/11, JFK, etc). I gave one example above, which is "the pancake theory" for 9/11. One needs only his eyes to see that the prevailing story of 9/11 is total BS. But if a man's rational mind can be confounded, and he wants to return to the prevailing world-view, then these explanations are provided as an easy out for him.

There is no good reason to believe something simply because it's complex and spoken by an authority figure.
 
BrandonD said:
There is no good reason to believe something simply because it's complex and spoken by an authority figure.

Ideally I'd like to hear direct personal opinions from the people on the list. Links are fine and good, but what do you personally think? If you think the photos are legit, what are your personal reasons for thinking so? Conversely, if you find the photos suspect, what is your insight in the matter?
 
BrandonD said:
BrandonD said:
Ideally I'd like to hear direct personal opinions from the people on the list. Links are fine and good, but what do you personally think? ...

I think that the whole moon landing conspiracy theory is a big laugh.
Having had a close relative with very intimate involvement in both the Gemini and Apollo programs, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that American astronauts have walked on the surface of the moon and I have not seen a single credible shred of evidence or even a convincing argument that proves they didn't.
These conspiracy theories are half baked at best, and laughably unscientific at worst. Now, don't get me wrong...I may be leery at times of our govt information/disinformation machine in some cases lately... but the conspiracy theorists are just dead wrong on the issue of the moon landing. We were there, no question.
 
The Professor said:
I think that the whole moon landing conspiracy theory is a big laugh.
Having had a close relative with very intimate involvement in both the Gemini and Apollo programs, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that American astronauts have walked on the surface of the moon and I have not seen a single credible shred of evidence or even a convincing argument that proves they didn't.
These conspiracy theories are half baked at best, and laughably unscientific at worst. Now, don't get me wrong...I may be leery at times of our govt information/disinformation machine in some cases lately... but the conspiracy theorists are just dead wrong on the issue of the moon landing. We were there, no question.

Did you even READ what I wrote? I would assume that a professor would bother to discover the topic of a thread before he contrived a response.

NOWHERE in my previous threads did I state that men didn't land on the moon in the apollo program. Perhaps you should go back and read the posts in this topic, so that you can find out what we're actually discussing. It's a relatively short thread and shouldn't tire a vigorous professor's mind such as yours.
 
I have seen numerous documentaries in regard to moon landing photos and their legitamacy or not.
If you listen to the people saying that some of the photos are faked, they seem to be believable and point out seemingly valid points if you are even just an armchair expert but then so do the "experts" who are debunking the former!!
Once again it gets down to "this expert in the field says aye!' and "that expert says nay!" and we , the casual observers, are left to sort out what we believe to be true.
If the photos mentioned are fake , why would the US government and/or NASA fake any whether just to enhance the viewing pleasure of themselves or the public, especially if the other photos are genuine?

I would think that the more relevant question would be "why have they not gone back to the moon?".
Considering the vast amounts of time, effort and money they are spending on the Mars missions and talking about a lengthy and costly manned mission there you can't tell me that cost was an inhibitor to further missions to the moon! The Moon would be an ideal vantage point to build environments and eventually build space vehicles from.

Without seeing any other threads that you may have posted or contributed to on this subject, what is your opinion on these photos?
 
The Pair of Cats said:
I have seen numerous documentaries in regard to moon landing photos and their legitamacy or not.
Once again it gets down to "this expert in the field says aye!' and "that expert says nay!" and we , the casual observers, are left to sort out what we believe to be true.
If the photos mentioned are fake , why would the US government and/or NASA fake any whether just to enhance the viewing pleasure of themselves or the public, especially if the other photos are genuine?

I would think that the more relevant question would be "why have they not gone back to the moon?".
Considering the vast amounts of time, effort and money they are spending on the Mars missions and talking about a lengthy and costly manned mission there you can't tell me that cost was an inhibitor to further missions to the moon! The Moon would be an ideal vantage point to build environments and eventually build space vehicles from.

Without seeing any other threads that you may have posted or contributed to on this subject, what is your opinion on these photos?

Part of the official plan is to go back to the moon, but not until the next decade. Alas, our original purpose in going to the moon was not to take a "giant step for mankind," but to beat the Russians in the days of the Cold War.

Having done that, we squandered the space program, and we failed to follow-up properly on our achievements.

There might be conspiracy theories involved, but the foregoing doesn't require anything more than typical political expediency and stupidity.
 
The Pair of Cats said:
I have seen numerous documentaries in regard to moon landing photos and their legitamacy or not.
If you listen to the people saying that some of the photos are faked, they seem to be believable and point out seemingly valid points if you are even just an armchair expert but then so do the "experts" who are debunking the former!!
Once again it gets down to "this expert in the field says aye!' and "that expert says nay!" and we , the casual observers, are left to sort out what we believe to be true.
If the photos mentioned are fake , why would the US government and/or NASA fake any whether just to enhance the viewing pleasure of themselves or the public, especially if the other photos are genuine?

I would think that the more relevant question would be "why have they not gone back to the moon?".
Considering the vast amounts of time, effort and money they are spending on the Mars missions and talking about a lengthy and costly manned mission there you can't tell me that cost was an inhibitor to further missions to the moon! The Moon would be an ideal vantage point to build environments and eventually build space vehicles from.

Without seeing any other threads that you may have posted or contributed to on this subject, what is your opinion on these photos?

My opinion is that the argument for the faked photographs is legitimate and strong. It is stronger than the counter-arguments that I've read. Even if you use this short thread as a microcosmic example, someone recently posted up a debunking website which "explained away" the photograhic light anomalies as a phenomenon known as "heilegenschein" (I'm probably mutilating the spelling, earlier threads have the proper spelling).

When reading a debunking website that explains away an anomaly with some complex natural phenomenon, most people stop at that point with the reasoning of "Well this guy has an explanation, it sounds complicated and he sounds smart, so evidently someone else figured out this mystery already."

But if you actually research heilegenschein you'll find out that it is completely inapplicable to the photos that it presumes to "explain away".

Read the earlier threads if you're interested in the details on this specific issue. Or I can explain it if you'd prefer.

As for your question "Why would the government or NASA fake moon photos?" The answer is of course "I don't know".

Consider the question, "Why would the government conceal what they know about the ufo phenomenon?" We don't know the answer to this either, but just because we can't conceive of a reason (due to our lack of information) does not mean that a perfectly valid reason doesn't exist.

I personally think the photographic evidence is a very good starting point for the apollo mystery. Motivations for NASA's actions such as the lack of return trips to the moon can always be debated, even if one explanation seems much more likely than the others. But photos are physical objects, so any person can look at them and see *for themselves* the evidence supporting the idea that they have been faked.

Why have they been faked? I don't know. Perhaps it's related to the concealment of ufo information, or perhaps it's not related at all.

Here's my general idea of how we might arrive at some clues to the mystery... First a group of people needs to establish sufficiently for themselves that it's reasonable and legitimate to propose that some of the major apollo photographs have been faked. After this we could maybe move into the areas of why they might have been faked. If we don't first collectively establish that there was deception involved in the apollo program, then it probably won't be too productive to move into more speculative areas.

The mystery has become more intriguing as I look into it, but I honestly don't think that I can figure it out on my own. Which is why I'm soliciting help from the intelligent un-conditioned forum members out there.
 
the professor should re read the first post. many of us do not refute the landing, we refute many of the photographs passed off as being taken on the moon. a child can see some are bogus, certainly a professor should. lol.
 
Of course we don't know why some of them may be faked, but it's certainly possible the 'faked' photos are genuine and only the backgrounds are edited. Why? The simple answer is there was something in the background they didn't want us to see. And God knows what that could be. It could be nothing important. It could even be they cropped out the Alien vehicle that accompanied them to the moon. We don't know.

That some people take this to mean we never went to the moon I find ridiculus, however.
 
pixelsmith said:
the professor should re read the first post. many of us do not refute the landing, we refute many of the photographs passed off as being taken on the moon. a child can see some are bogus, certainly a professor should. lol.

First off, my apologies to those who were so offended by my misplaced post; I had been reading the older "moon landing conspiracy" thread in the forum, and was actually responding to that. Just got mixed up with two screens open. So much for multitasking.

In any case, regarding the photos, opinions were requested and I have stated mine which I stand by. I have not seen any reason to believe that any of the photos were faked or doctored. I have considered the arguments in an objective way, even temporarily putting aside my own experience with and technical knowledge of photography and image manipulation (pre-Photoshop) but none of the conspiracy theories really hold any water. Sorry, but I just don't see it. I'm still open to be proven wrong, so I will never say never.

Maybe you should have the aforementioned child you speak of try and explain it to me.
LOL.
 
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